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Health Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-02-2014 08:17 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  [Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzSuCgPtiX6Yns7pEcFA-...CjBwbTY3Ew]

"Piss Jugs and Day Game"

Lebeau,

That is a great video. That is my mindset exactly!

They were discussing the use of "piss jugs" by truckers who don't want to pull over. I use the same strategy when I drive long distances.

In terms of quality sleep, "piss jugs" allow me to relieve myself without having to get out of bed. I simply roll over or sit up to pee.

Drinking less water at night and pissing before bed also reduces the likelihood that I will be awaken by the need to pee.

I think "regularizing sleep" is one of the most important things we can do for our overall health and well being.
09-03-2014 05:12 PM
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FPT Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
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09-09-2014 10:27 AM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-09-2014 10:27 AM)FPT Wrote:  I cant get the one by Sunbox, for which the OP posted a link. If it stops in customs the taxes and other charges will increase the cost dramatically. Does this one seem like a good alternative? It's 10k lux too, full spectrum light. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lumie-Arabica-SA...roduct_top

FPT, yes, this is a legitimate lightbox. Its dimensions are similar to the Sunlight Jr., it is full spectrum, and Lumie is a decent manufacturer for these. One thing to note is that you'll need to place it pretty close to get 10,000 Lux, 25cm or a little less than 10''. You could also get the Lumie Brazil:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lumie-Brazil-SAD...=drugstore

It's a little bigger and heavier, but you can get 10,000 Lux sitting at 35cm from it (or about 14''). Either one works -- the Arabica is lighter and a little cheaper, the Brazil is sturdier and likely has a higher quality diffuser.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
09-09-2014 08:43 PM
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Duke Castile Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
This could be one of the things I've been missing....

I don't sleep well and haven't for what seems like ages.

Right now two things bother me, I get up to piss multiple times in a night and I also have light flooding into my room early morning.

Its almost 3am here and thats about the usual time I fall asleep. Then I wake up around 830-9 eat something, then fall back asleep for a few hours or more.

I usually don't feel well rested. Actually I can't remember the last time I woke up with a spring in my step.

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09-10-2014 01:42 PM
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kbell Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
I think you still need a sleep mask to help with sleep. Most rooms have light leaking, or electronic lights which affect sleep quality. A good sleep mask will block out all light, although somehow the morning light can still wake you up in the morning. Perhaps there are light sensor in the skin's nerves that can still pick out when the morning happens.
09-10-2014 02:26 PM
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FPT Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
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09-10-2014 08:25 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-10-2014 01:42 PM)Fisto Wrote:  This could be one of the things I've been missing....

I don't sleep well and haven't for what seems like ages.

Right now two things bother me, I get up to piss multiple times in a night and I also have light flooding into my room early morning.

Its almost 3am here and thats about the usual time I fall asleep. Then I wake up around 830-9 eat something, then fall back asleep for a few hours or more.

I usually don't feel well rested. Actually I can't remember the last time I woke up with a spring in my step.

Fisto, I think this would be a great idea for you. If you correctly entrain with a light box every morning you will be falling asleep same time every night, sleeping through the night, and waking up same time every morning, well rested. And I think all this would kick in pretty rapidly after you start entraining.

Why don't you look at the Sunlight Jr I suggested in the OP -- they ship internationally and there is an international sales phone number at the product link. If that doesn't work out for you for some reason we can look at other options.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
09-10-2014 08:30 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-10-2014 08:25 PM)FPT Wrote:  Thanks OP. Been researching this today, found an interesting link: http://www.psycheducation.org/depression...herapy.htm
The guy seems to really know what he's talking about. An interesting "add on" therapy for the circadyan rythm is to block bluelight at night, using special glasses. See here for reference: http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/LightDark.htm
It all makes very good sense

Indeed -- the most important source of blue light at night is computer and smartphone monitors, and everyone should install this free utility on their computers to block blue light after sunset:

https://justgetflux.com/

f.lux has been mentioned on other forum threads, but it really goes hand in hand with the idea of bright light therapy. You want to get full spectrum bright light (including plenty of blue light) in the morning, and you want to filter out blue light at night, most especially if you are looking into a monitor. Right this moment as I'm typing this post I'm looking at an f.lux controlled monitor set to "incandescent" (meaning, maximally red-shifted) and I wouldn't think of doing it any other way in the evening.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
09-10-2014 08:36 PM
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AneroidOcean Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-03-2014 05:12 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  In terms of quality sleep, "piss jugs" allow me to relieve myself without having to get out of bed. I simply roll over or sit up to pee.

Drinking less water at night and pissing before bed also reduces the likelihood that I will be awaken by the need to pee.

I think "regularizing sleep" is one of the most important things we can do for our overall health and well being.

So is it really that beneficial to piss without leaving your bed/bedroom? My bathroom is not far at all from my bedroom and I can usually see well enough to piss without having to turn the bright light on. I would think the difference in time would be pretty minimal and not affect my sleep that greatly.

Then again, I've pissed in a large gatorade bottle on long distance drives and have done it multiple times in other containers in my bedroom. It's really the strangest feeling to piss into a container but man is it nice to be efficient.

I'd never do this with a girl around, though. Too much chance she'd try to drink out of my container or knock it over!

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09-11-2014 12:01 AM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-11-2014 12:01 AM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  is it really that beneficial to piss without leaving your bed/bedroom?

It just depends how far away one's bathroom is..

In my case, I would have to go down a flight of stairs to use the bathroom.

That is why I use "piss jugs".

In your case, with the bathroom being so close, I don't see a need for a "piss jug".

But, you might like it. Not having to get out of bed to piss is very convenient.

(09-11-2014 12:01 AM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  I'd never do this with a girl around, though. Too much chance she'd try to drink out of my container or knock it over!

Haha!

After I have banged a girl a few times, I just flat out tall her about my "piss jug".

It does make a bit of noise when I piss but they get used to it.

They often get jealous because when they have to piss, to must go down a flight of stairs.

I worry about them slipping and falling down the stairs.

Maybe, I will invent a "Female Piss Jug"!

Edit:

They have already been invented:

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnhaqAABB8pOoU5ATBV7n...pAw9MD1jb-]

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Dump the piss into your garden to act as a fertilizer.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2014 04:41 PM by Giovonny.)
09-11-2014 04:34 PM
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kbell Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
With a lightbox, does it have to be above your eyes, like sun tends to be to work? THe sunbox is only 14" high so it will not be above my eyes, if I place it on my sit-stand computer desk. Also I would think you might get macular problems over time, but I'm willing to take that risk if its not all year round. During the summer I probably could just leave a window open for that.
09-12-2014 08:26 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-12-2014 08:26 PM)kbell Wrote:  With a lightbox, does it have to be above your eyes, like sun tends to be to work? THe sunbox is only 14" high so it will not be above my eyes, if I place it on my sit-stand computer desk. Also I would think you might get macular problems over time, but I'm willing to take that risk if its not all year round. During the summer I probably could just leave a window open for that.

It does not need to be above your eyes -- all that matters is that the light is streaming across your eyes. You can place the Sunlight Jr. (the one you're talking about) on your desk as shown here:

[Image: SunlightJr-600-022214.jpg]

If you prefer it above your eyes you can go for the (somewhat more expensive) Sunray II which has a stand that looks like this:

[Image: SunRayII-300x272.jpeg]

But it's not necessary. The Jr. will work fine.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
09-12-2014 08:49 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
I ordered the sunbox jr. Its eye level height if I sit.
09-12-2014 09:14 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
Just did my first trial with the sun box jr. Sat at my desk to work on an article after waking up around 6:10. I got lost in the zone and spent about an hour working with the light on. I think I overdid it... I have a tinge of headache / brain fog now. But I never get into the zone that quickly and that early. This could be the basis for a great new habit, I just need to remember to set a timer for 30 minutes else I'm going to forget.
09-13-2014 09:05 AM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-13-2014 09:05 AM)MystikAL Wrote:  Just did my first trial with the sun box jr. Sat at my desk to work on an article after waking up around 6:10. I got lost in the zone and spent about an hour working with the light on. I think I overdid it... I have a tinge of headache / brain fog now. But I never get into the zone that quickly and that early. This could be the basis for a great new habit, I just need to remember to set a timer for 30 minutes else I'm going to forget.

Excellent, but yes, please don't overdo it. 30 minutes is the right amount time, so set a timer if you need to. And remember to sit at 14'' from the unit to get your 10,000 Lux, and not to stare at it directly but rather let the light come across your eyes. Finally, the key to success is consistency: do it same time every morning in the same way -- and you'll see the greatest benefits.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
09-13-2014 09:22 AM
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Chaos Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
If my sleep doesn't improve within a week I'm ready to try this.
Even if I sleep between 6-9 hours I don't feel well rested.

I wake up with a very lazy mood and I need to push myself hard to get things going.

The optimal thing would be to have get a "get shit done" mood going on together with my morning coffee.
09-18-2014 05:14 AM
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iknowexactly Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-10-2014 08:30 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 01:42 PM)Fisto Wrote:  This could be one of the things I've been missing....

I don't sleep well and haven't for what seems like ages....get up to piss
I usually don't feel well rested. Actually I can't remember the last time I woke up with a spring in my step.

Fisto, I think this would be a great idea for you. If you correctly entrain with a light box every morning you will be falling asleep same time every night, ....

Why don't you look at the Sunlight Jr I suggested in the OP -- they ship internationally and there is an international sales phone number at the product link. If that doesn't work out for you for some reason we can look at other options.

Fisto are you still off the sauce? I speculate that a lot of the negative effects of alcohol are indirect, because it fouls up your sleep rather than the direct damage it does.

Also peripherally related to thread-- clinical depression nearly _always_ manifests with some type of sleep disturbance-- often it's easy to go to sleep, but you have early awakening with sluggish feeling. Depression is typically worse in the morning.

There is an negative triad of functioning-- alcohol->worsens both sleep and depression, even moderate amounts many people can tolerate.
If you drink more in reaction to feeling shitty... negative spiral.

I have this Philips goLite which I really like, it's LEDs so it won't break, and it's compact. That's an iPad mini for size comparison.


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(This post was last modified: 09-18-2014 07:36 AM by iknowexactly.)
09-18-2014 07:23 AM
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kbell Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
I tried it this morning. 20 minutes. Very bright, almost feels like my eye is cooking if I don't angle my eye away somewhat. But i does perk you up. I have a dual screen setup with the one screen running the timer in the morning and the other with the browser. When you stop the timer you have to look at the light briefly which isn't pleasant.

The LED version looked like they would be harsher since they have no diffuse screen, and I believe are blueish. Blue light is very harmful to the eye and they are stating to have studies that show that it may cause Macular Degeneration. That's when the back of the eye's, the center of the retina called a macula degenerates. You end up with a blind spot in the middle of your eye when your older and have to look at everything on the side to see. The blue light in phones and LED could do this potentially. 10,000 lux may speed up the process. The pure white is better.
09-18-2014 07:37 AM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-18-2014 05:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  Even if I sleep between 6-9 hours I don't feel well rested.

What time do you go to bed at tonight?

If you go to bed after midnight, even 8 hours of sleep can leave you feeling groggy or unrested.
09-18-2014 10:36 AM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-18-2014 07:37 AM)kbell Wrote:  I tried it this morning. 20 minutes. Very bright, almost feels like my eye is cooking if I don't angle my eye away somewhat. But i does perk you up. I have a dual screen setup with the one screen running the timer in the morning and the other with the browser. When you stop the timer you have to look at the light briefly which isn't pleasant.

kbell, that's a good start. The key is to do this consistently and correctly:

-- Do it same time every morning, not just occasionally; that is what is best for entrainment.
-- Make sure you're at 14'' from the Sunlight Jr. Don't look straight at it but let the light come across your eyes.
-- The duration should be closer to 30 minutes than 20 minutes. Probably 30 minutes exactly is best.

(09-18-2014 07:23 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  Also peripherally related to thread-- clinical depression nearly _always_ manifests with some type of sleep disturbance-- often it's easy to go to sleep, but you have early awakening with sluggish feeling. Depression is typically worse in the morning.


Yes, exactly. There is almost no such thing as depression without sleep dysregulation of some kind.

(09-18-2014 07:23 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I have this Philips goLite which I really like, it's LEDs so it won't break, and it's compact. That's an iPad mini for size comparison.

IKE, I think you should look into getting one of the full spectrum ones, they are definitely superior to the blue light LED ones in a number of ways. It's true that the LED devices are smaller and more portable but full spectrum devices have the best track record and the most solid research supporting them, and as kbell noted there may be some problems with overexposure to pure blue light although that's not completely clear. I believe that full spectrum light boxes are the way to go.

(09-18-2014 05:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  If my sleep doesn't improve within a week I'm ready to try this.
Even if I sleep between 6-9 hours I don't feel well rested.

I wake up with a very lazy mood and I need to push myself hard to get things going.

The optimal thing would be to have get a "get shit done" mood going on together with my morning coffee.

Chaos, I think you should definitely do this and now is the time to do it as it's rapidly getting darker where you are. You'll kill a number of closely related birds with one stone: better sleep, better mood and reduced anxiety. It's even quite possible that if your digestive problems are essentially stress based rather than pathogen based (which is likely if to this point no one has been able to identify a pathogen) that these problems will more or less disappear after some time on correctly administered bright light therapy as the stress and anxiety are reduced.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2014 08:05 PM by The Lizard of Oz.)
09-18-2014 07:56 PM
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kbell Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
I had a extra long day at work and normally it would have been very hectic. I was in a good mood all day and not much pains besides some gas related ones. Now I'm starting to feel pretty tired to, but I did have some booze as well. I will have to see if I consistently get tired at night with usage, that would really probably improve things overall. With light I had it position to the left of my head, and it really hit only my left eye directly, not my right (a bit from bounced lighting). Does it have to hit both eyes in front of face at an angle so I'm not looking directly at the light?
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2014 08:52 PM by kbell.)
09-18-2014 08:45 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-18-2014 08:45 PM)kbell Wrote:  I had a extra long day at work and normally it would have been very hectic. I was in a good mood all day and not much pains besides some gas related ones. Now I'm starting to feel pretty tired to, but I did have some booze as well. I will have to see if I consistently get tired at night with usage, that would really probably improve things overall.

See that -- and that is just the first day. This stuff starts working fast.

Yes, if you use the light box consistently and correctly you will get a characteristic entrainment effect and will feel "sleep tired" right before you're supposed to go to sleep, which is ideal, of course.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
09-18-2014 08:50 PM
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RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-18-2014 10:36 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(09-18-2014 05:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  Even if I sleep between 6-9 hours I don't feel well rested.

What time do you go to bed at tonight?

If you go to bed after midnight, even 8 hours of sleep can leave you feeling groggy or unrested.

I always aim to go to bed around 10pm.
I like to wake up around 5am, if I'm well rested of course.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2014 10:39 PM by Chaos.)
09-18-2014 10:38 PM
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RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-18-2014 07:56 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  
(09-18-2014 05:14 AM)Chaos Wrote:  If my sleep doesn't improve within a week I'm ready to try this.
Even if I sleep between 6-9 hours I don't feel well rested.

I wake up with a very lazy mood and I need to push myself hard to get things going.

The optimal thing would be to have get a "get shit done" mood going on together with my morning coffee.

Chaos, I think you should definitely do this and now is the time to do it as it's rapidly getting darker where you are. You'll kill a number of closely related birds with one stone: better sleep, better mood and reduced anxiety. It's even quite possible that if your digestive problems are essentially stress based rather than pathogen based (which is likely if to this point no one has been able to identify a pathogen) that these problems will more or less disappear after some time on correctly administered bright light therapy as the stress and anxiety are reduced.

Sure. What model can you recommend, suited for European sockets?

And about my digestive problems. I went again to my local hospital here and took a lot of tests but I haven't gotten any results yet.
However my stomach has improved, but then a badass flu came and took over.

This stories from bright light threapy sounds very good.
There is nothing worse than waking up tired and lazy, even music can't cure that!
09-18-2014 10:46 PM
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RE: Bright Light Therapy for Regularizing Sleep and Reducing Depression and Anxiety
(09-18-2014 08:45 PM)kbell Wrote:  With light I had it position to the left of my head, and it really hit only my left eye directly, not my right (a bit from bounced lighting). Does it have to hit both eyes in front of face at an angle so I'm not looking directly at the light?

Yes, ideally the light would be coming across both your eyes at an angle without you looking directly at it, although being at an angle it's going to be hitting one eye somewhat more than the other, which is fine.

Here is a pic with the Sunlight Jr:

[Image: sunbox-sunlight-junior-in-use.jpg]

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
09-18-2014 10:51 PM
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