Read The Forum Rules: We have a clear set of rules to keep the forum running smoothly. Click here to review them.

Thread Closed 
What those who condemn PUA don't understand
Author Message
Prophylaxis Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 625
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 33
Post: #1
What those who condemn PUA don't understand
Hey fellas,

Been a while since I posted - business taking over my life instead of females and RooshV - we all go through cycles though ay? ;-)

Came across this article recently and it really struck home.

If you look at why people like Julien Blanc exist - it's to help the most socially inept guys - guys that cannot pick up girls to save their lives. These men are often the most harmless and need the most help. The fact that they were indiscriminately being abused by the public and feminists for attending a Julien Blanc event makes me sick.





They always fail to look at why a market exists for this service in the first place. So much easier to hate than to critically think.

Quote:...

Having covered various PUA seminars over the years as a journalist, I can report they exist on a sliding scale of propriety. Every company who runs these events has a different approach, every speaker has a different philosophy. Some are like Julien Blanc, others genuinely care about improving their client's lives and do it in a respectful manner.

Think for a moment where you'd have to be as a person to pay someone hundreds, often thousands of dollars, to teach you how to talk to members of the opposite sex? These are not evil men, they're not even creeps - certainly not the types of guy who've broken women's hearts or treated them like crap.

They're often men who have never had a girlfriend, sometimes never even kissed a woman. Some of the men are from racial backgrounds that are heavily discriminated against in Australia's overwhelmingly white, Anglo dating scene. Some have stutters, physical or mental disabilities or disfigurements.
Many have had poor male role models in relationships and they've reached a point of loneliness, frustration and isolation they've swallowed their pride, admitted they need help, then paid for it.

Imagine you turned up at last week's event with that mindset and had people screaming "creep", "loser" or "abuser" at you and they were filming it?

These are powerful messages and they are being aimed at a subculture of men who, I'd argue, are some of the least exploitative of women.

These are not footballers who pass women around like toys, bang them in cubicles or pressure them into group sex. They're not cashed up bankers or bikers who ply chicks with cocaine. They're not religious nuts who codify the submission and abuse of females of all ages, nor advertising and media executives who aggrandise and profit from sexism. They're not even the yobbos who catcall from cars and building sites.

They are nerds. They are the guys who rarely get the girl. They are a soft target. It's hard to imagine they are the most dangerous example of misogyny in this country.

This is not to condone what Julien Blanc and his ilk teach.

My point is, the demand for seminars such as the one he teaches arises from a very simple fact of life; the dating game is an uneven playing field.

Men and women suffer and benefit from different sides to it.

No man goes out of a night worried he might be raped, sexually abused or catcalled and these are all serious instances of aberrant male behaviour that we must address, punish or discourage as a society.

The flipside of this is your average man can go out every Friday and Saturday night for five years, buy himself a drink and stand at a bar and NEVER have a woman start up a conversation with him.

In the majority of social situations, men have to be the instigators and, of course, there are a plethora of respectful, non-threatening ways to do this.

Some women, however, are quite happy to overlook, diminish and outright mock the problem this poses for many, many men - the anxiety of approaching women, the fear of rejection, the despair at being completely ignored by the opposite sex.
This is an experience 100 per cent guaranteed for 95 per cent of guys. It happens. Over and over and over again. And some guys need help to deal with being invisible.

They do it to get a girlfriend, to have someone to hold, to find love.

Source - http://www.smh.com.au/comment/hating-the...1k5px.html

If you're not growing, you're dying.
11-11-2014 08:49 PM
Find all posts by this user
[-] The following 8 users Like Prophylaxis's post:
monster, dasher, Drazen, HeyPete, Handsome Creepy Eel, SvenTuga, Benoit, Cyr
dasher Offline
Robin
*

Posts: 235
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 10
Post: #2
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
Quote:No man goes out of a night worried he might be raped, sexually abused or catcalled and these are all serious instances of aberrant male behaviour that we must address, punish or discourage as a society.

One of these things are not like the others.

She also seems to be under the impression that rape & sexual assault are punishment free crimes with no stigma attached.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2014 09:22 PM by dasher.)
11-11-2014 09:22 PM
Find all posts by this user
[-] The following 3 users Like dasher's post:
Snowplow, SvenTuga, Ocelot
Sebastian Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,447
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation: 4
Post: #3
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
it's to help the most socially inept guys
--------------------------------------------------------
What does that 'Help' word mean?
That Help will cost you $3k for listening to some speech and going out with them.

Obviously women will find it creepy. Plus most guys will find it weird too 'bro you paid $3k to learn how to pick up women? lol'
Bottom line is, if you are going to such bootcamps, don't talk to anyone about it.
11-12-2014 04:39 AM
Find all posts by this user
[-] The following 2 users Like Sebastian's post:
Handsome Creepy Eel, turkishcandy
Prophylaxis Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 625
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 33
Post: #4
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
(11-12-2014 04:39 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  it's to help the most socially inept guys
--------------------------------------------------------
What does that 'Help' word mean?
That Help will cost you $3k for listening to some speech and going out with them.

Obviously women will find it creepy. Plus most guys will find it weird too 'bro you paid $3k to learn how to pick up women? lol'
Bottom line is, if you are going to such bootcamps, don't talk to anyone about it.

There really needs to be a shift in mentality (even from men) over self-improvement. Women don't realise the 'men' they are creating by hampering such social development.

Would these type of people also laugh at a scrawny guy who pays a Personal Trainer to help him get big?

Next time I see a dude struggling while on the prowl - I'll offer a hand and help him out.

If you're not growing, you're dying.
11-12-2014 05:34 AM
Find all posts by this user
[-] The following 2 users Like Prophylaxis's post:
Ocelot, Benoit
Benoit Offline
Pelican
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,153
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 21
Post: #5
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
(11-12-2014 04:39 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  it's to help the most socially inept guys
--------------------------------------------------------
What does that 'Help' word mean?
That Help will cost you $3k for listening to some speech and going out with them.

Obviously women will find it creepy. Plus most guys will find it weird too 'bro you paid $3k to learn how to pick up women? lol'
Bottom line is, if you are going to such bootcamps, don't talk to anyone about it.

If there wasn't such a concerted effort to brand bootcamps/seminars as shameful, there would be enough competition that the rates would fall to sensible levels.

Becoming a pickup instructor with your face visible in the age of YouTube has a worse effect on your future corporate prospects than a neck tattoo, so it's a job that self-selects for a certain kind of person.

$3k for an RSD seminar is bullshit when Krauser's done several talks for free/beer money. I know who I'd trust more.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold
11-12-2014 06:27 AM
Find all posts by this user
tiggaling Offline
Kingfisher
***
Gold Member

Posts: 676
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 5
Post: #6
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
The world needs more calibrated men who can go up and talk to women, not less.

A lot of the problem with the night scene in general is the general inability of men to talk to women in a sensible manner in the first place.

These guys just starting out are not going to learn some trick straight away to "manipulate" women into sex.

The red pill truth is that women go out to hookup as well.

Still, there is so much shame and guilt surrounding sexuality, men want to have sex, women want to have sex. These Asian IT guys are not even talking to girls and a lot of these guys learn the ropes of pickup and then just get a GF.
11-12-2014 06:59 AM
Find all posts by this user
StrikeBack Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,133
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 92
Post: #7
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
Wait a sec, someone is standing up for the nerdy dateless guys in Australia on a mainstream news site?

I was waiting for a very different punchline at the end of that article...

StrikeBack's Wife School
11-12-2014 07:12 AM
Find all posts by this user
Phoenix Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jul 2014
Post: #8
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
And the solution is basically the central tenet of this forum:
1) The Western dating market is shit.
2) The Non-western dating market, for a Western guy, is OK
3) Do with that as you will.
11-12-2014 07:24 AM
Find all posts by this user
Sebastian Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,447
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation: 4
Post: #9
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
Look if you are religious about it then just do it on your own.

Don't try to Convince other people. That's just annoying like Jehovah's witness.

Like I said, if you mention those boot camps to other average people, they will laugh at you. (including your brother, mother and father)
Oh it's because they are all ignorant, prejudiced and stupid???

Plus, you know what your problem is? because you are marketing a product that costs money. (a lot of money)
There is not even banner ads on this website.






(11-12-2014 05:34 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 04:39 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  it's to help the most socially inept guys
--------------------------------------------------------
What does that 'Help' word mean?
That Help will cost you $3k for listening to some speech and going out with them.

Obviously women will find it creepy. Plus most guys will find it weird too 'bro you paid $3k to learn how to pick up women? lol'
Bottom line is, if you are going to such bootcamps, don't talk to anyone about it.

There really needs to be a shift in mentality (even from men) over self-improvement. Women don't realise the 'men' they are creating by hampering such social development.

Would these type of people also laugh at a scrawny guy who pays a Personal Trainer to help him get big?

Next time I see a dude struggling while on the prowl - I'll offer a hand and help him out.
11-12-2014 07:56 AM
Find all posts by this user
[-] The following 1 user Likes Sebastian's post:
turkishcandy
Deluge Offline
Hummingbird
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 3,995
Joined: Jun 2011
Reputation: 76
Post: #10
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
The world needs good game advice. I actually think most "normal" women are fine with the idea of dating coaches if they see that they're cool and mainly just teaching guys how to be confident, charismatic and actually talk to women, as opposed to dudes like Mystery and a lot of guys from RSD. It's only the reject feminist fringes of society that instinctively oppose any kind of male self-improvement.

That said, I think there need to a cultural shift in the pickup community. A lot of, perhaps even the majority of guys into game are straight up weirdo's. And a lot of guys still today care more about running through insane volume of approaches with gimmicky game rather then working on becoming a cool, high value man. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible for a lot of the newbies to game to ever achieve that. Some guys just have lame personalities, sometimes no amount of rewiring can ever change somebody's personality. Good example: Roosh has been running club game for over a decade now and he's still an introvert. Similarly a lot of people just aren't willing to do put in the work required for drastic self-improvement, but we often don't tell newbies just how much work is actually needed when they are starting out.

We need to re-adjust expectations away from myths perpetuated by the PUA bootcamp industry of the early game era where any neckbeard could start banging 9's and 10's if he just learned the magic pill of "game" and did enough approaches. Most men were not meant to be reproductively successful, that's just the way it is and always will be. Hell most newbies don't even want to be players, they just want a cute thin girlfriend to have sex with regularly. I think that goal is easily achievable for practically every guy who is willing to put in the work to improve the fundamentals of their value and learn how to become a socially normal human being. What we need to do is tell these guys upfront just how realistic their personal goal is to achieve (if at all), and what kind of work is required of them to do so. Unfortunately this is not what most people want to hear, and most men aren't willing to put in the work, there's nothing we can do about that. But being upfront about all this would save a lot of men who aren't committed to this a lot of time and perhaps even a lot of money.

I just posted this on the RSD thread but I feel like it's relevant to this thread as well.

(11-12-2014 07:14 AM)Deluge Wrote:  People turn to places like RSD and Manosphere bloggers because they need guidance on how to be a man, starting with their dealings with women and then extending to other areas of their lives. RSD as a business will probably survive this witch hunt but after seeing how Tyler dealt with this crisis no self-respecting person could ever take his advice on how to be a man again.

Perhaps 10 years on from "The Game" this marks the end of an era. Perhaps the PUA and bootcamp culture will finally be hung up alongside the fuzzy hats.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2014 08:38 AM by Deluge.)
11-12-2014 08:01 AM
Find all posts by this user
bojangles Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 4,180
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 57
Post: #11
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
I'm suprised at that article. Wow, not surprised by the comments by bogan bitches though

Don't forget to check out my latest post on Return of Kings - 6 Things Indian Guys Need To Understand About Game

Desi Casanova
The 3 Bromigos
11-12-2014 08:11 AM
Find all posts by this user
Deluge Offline
Hummingbird
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 3,995
Joined: Jun 2011
Reputation: 76
Post: #12
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
(11-12-2014 08:11 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I'm suprised at that article. Wow, not surprised by the comments by bogan bitches though

The Fairfax Media broadsheets are basically the Australian version of the New York Times, so most of those "bogan bitches" are actually SWPL's.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2014 08:14 AM by Deluge.)
11-12-2014 08:14 AM
Find all posts by this user
turkishcandy Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 862
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 24
Post: #13
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
If there was a 3000$-worth secret to how to pick up girls, many people would know about it and cash in on it. Now I don't blame RSD for charging men 3000$ for I don't care how other men spend their money. I believe in the concept of ''a fool and his money are soon parted''. Good for RSD, let them charge those men for everything they own, if they are stupid enough to give it in exchange for sole game advice.

And truth be told, RSD is good for killing your approach anxiety, pushing you to a high-energy game and turning you into an approach machine, if you can't teach these things to yourself on your own.

But you can. There was a time when I couldn't day approach a girl to save my life, then I just bought a copy of Day Bang for 5$ and went out and gave it a try. In 2 weeks I got my first bang and I felt like I've invented the wheel. Then I learned that there are men out there who are willing to pay 3000$ for that wheel and then they go around and brag about joining RSD and going to bootcamps and then promote those bootcamps to other people like the OP is doing in order to feel better about having paid that ridiculous amount of money or believing the teachings of RSD. I laughed my ass off.

I twitch when I see someone promote RSD, a commercial PUA or a Youtube ''prankster'' here in RVF. It's like saying ''hey Turkishcandy, you have some okay game, but how about you learn the REAL game by subsciribing here? And it's only 2999,99$!'' Get out of my face with that bullshit. There is no secret to game. Game is a numbers game and that's about all there is to it. There is no deep philosophy behind it. There is nothing to be taught about it that is worth 3000$. If you defend this I will call you out on it. Here is my free game bootcamp:
1) Learn the basic principles (about female mentality and dating market) and some openers. I recommend Bang and Day Bang.
2) Keep improving yourself in every way you can. Read books, work out, start a blog if you can, travel and learn Russian.
3) Keep approaching girls day and night until you get results. You will learn everything about game by trial&error method and experiencing.
4) Repeat #2 and #3

Any guy who claims RSD teaches men what can't be learned with these 4 steps is basically saying we are all a bunch of idiots for not paying RSD and learning their ''secrets'' and listening to hours of motivational speeches. That we are not real gamers and our game level is nowhere near RSD. Because RSD's teachings contradict the teachings of RVF and other manosphere sites. These 2 can't coexist. If you wanna be involved in RSD, go ahead, it's your choice. But then don't come to this forum to promote it. I would rather listen to LGBT activists.
11-12-2014 08:31 AM
Find all posts by this user
Pride male Offline
Hummingbird
*****

Posts: 2,966
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 9
Post: #14
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
Pikachu!

Don't debate me.
11-12-2014 08:37 AM
Find all posts by this user
Roosh Offline
Eagle
*******

Posts: 19,455
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 419
Post: #15
RE: What those who condemn PUA don't understand
Dupe: There's already an RSD thread. Post in that one.

Roosh
http://www.rooshv.com
11-12-2014 09:19 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication