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Whenever you finish a book, post it here
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Dulceácido Online
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Post: #1001
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
(02-08-2019 08:07 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Kyle is credited with 160 confirmed kills, confirmed meaning that he had a witness who verified the shot and the kill.

Hmmm... From where did you extract this "information?" I'd really love to see the source.

There is no such thing as a "confirmed kill.". What does that mean? And, no, it doesn't mean what you said. Who "confirms" it? Why is that person credible? There is no such report in the military. It does not exist. How do you confirm it? Go up and take a pulse? Make sure he's not carted off to the emergency room? His head must explode? What's to keep your buddy from bolstering your numbers or some dickhead from saying, "Nope, I saw him. He limped away."

This is Hollywood nonsense. There is no such thing in the military. It sounds cool on paper when you're writing a book, but use your heads, Gents. How could this be possible? It is a total fiction.

(Not picking on you, Paracelsus, my friend, just pointing out that this is a totally made up thing that needs to go away. No one who is on the battlefield and in combat knows the definition of this. It's something someone invented that just stuck around. It means absolutely nothing.)

I'm not a businessman; I'm a business, Man
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2019 04:39 PM by Dulceácido.)
02-09-2019 04:30 PM
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Post: #1002
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
(02-09-2019 04:30 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  
(02-08-2019 08:07 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Kyle is credited with 160 confirmed kills, confirmed meaning that he had a witness who verified the shot and the kill.

Hmmm... From where did you extract this "information?" I'd really love to see the source.

There is no such thing as a "confirmed kill.". What does that mean? And, no, it doesn't mean what you said. Who "confirms" it? Why is that person credible? There is no such report in the military. It does not exist. How do you confirm it? Go up and take a pulse? Make sure he's not carted off to the emergency room? His head must explode? What's to keep your buddy from bolstering your numbers or some dickhead from saying, "Nope, I saw him. He limped away."

This is Hollywood nonsense. There is no such thing in the military. It sounds cool on paper when you're writing a book, but use your heads, Gents. How could this be possible? It is a total fiction.

(Not picking on you, Paracelsus, my friend, just pointing out that this is a totally made up thing that needs to go away. No one who is on the battlefield and in combat knows the definition of this. It's something someone invented that just stuck around. It means absolutely nothing.)

Read some war history, and you'll see the term has been around longer than Hollywood, in more than one country. Unless you have some insight, vis a vis membership in a sniper unit, or working in some sort of military archive capacity (in which case, feel free to share), I'm going to take the word of a decorated JSOC soldier over yours.

There are three ways to do things: The Right Way, the Wrong Way, and the Army Way

"The Queen is most anxious to enlist every one who can speak or write to join in checking this mad, wicked folly of "Woman's Rights", with all its attendant horrors, on which her poor feeble sex is bent, forgetting every sense of womanly feeling and propriety." --- Queen Victoria
02-09-2019 09:49 PM
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Dulceácido Online
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Post: #1003
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
(02-09-2019 09:49 PM)Subtext Wrote:  Read some war history, and you'll see the term has been around longer than Hollywood, in more than one country. Unless you have some insight, vis a vis membership in a sniper unit, or working in some sort of military archive capacity (in which case, feel free to share), I'm going to take the word of a decorated JSOC soldier over yours.

I'm quite qualified to comment on this subject. I do not accept your invitation to qualify myself here.

You can choose to believe whatever you want; makes no difference to me whatsoever. Cheers, brother.

How about this: instead of me posting personally identifying information, you could produce one of these "confirmed kill" documents and educate me on the process. Good luck on your search.

And what makes you think I'm not a "decorated JSOC soldier?"

I'm not a businessman; I'm a business, Man
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2019 10:04 PM by Dulceácido.)
02-09-2019 10:03 PM
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Post: #1004
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
(02-09-2019 10:03 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  
(02-09-2019 09:49 PM)Subtext Wrote:  Read some war history, and you'll see the term has been around longer than Hollywood, in more than one country. Unless you have some insight, vis a vis membership in a sniper unit, or working in some sort of military archive capacity (in which case, feel free to share), I'm going to take the word of a decorated JSOC soldier over yours.

I'm quite qualified to comment on this subject. I do not accept your invitation to qualify myself here.

You can choose to believe whatever you want; makes no difference to me whatsoever. Cheers, brother.

How about this: instead of me posting personally identifying information, you could produce one of these "confirmed kill" documents and educate me on the process. Good luck on your search.

And what makes you think I'm not a "decorated JSOC soldier?"


"I'm not going to tell you how I know this, but trust me bro, I know this." Save that for 4chan - they eat shit like that with a spoon.

Luydmilla Pavlichenko 'Lady Death' - Red Army sniper between 1941-1953; 309 confirmed kills
Simo Häyhä 'The White Death' - Finnish Army sniper between 1939 and 1940; 705 confirmed kills

Those are just two examples of the term in use by foreign military bodies. So your Hollywood comment is just plain nonsense. But I'm sure that everyone who achieves something you can't fathom is totally making it up. Yeah. That's gotta be it.

There are three ways to do things: The Right Way, the Wrong Way, and the Army Way

"The Queen is most anxious to enlist every one who can speak or write to join in checking this mad, wicked folly of "Woman's Rights", with all its attendant horrors, on which her poor feeble sex is bent, forgetting every sense of womanly feeling and propriety." --- Queen Victoria
02-09-2019 10:47 PM
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Dulceácido Online
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Post: #1005
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
(02-09-2019 10:47 PM)Subtext Wrote:  "I'm not going to tell you how I know this, but trust me bro, I know this." Save that for 4chan - they eat shit like that with a spoon.

Luydmilla Pavlichenko 'Lady Death' - Red Army sniper between 1941-1953; 309 confirmed kills
Simo Häyhä 'The White Death' - Finnish Army sniper between 1939 and 1940; 705 confirmed kills

Those are just two examples of the term in use by foreign military bodies. So your Hollywood comment is just plain nonsense. But I'm sure that everyone who achieves something you can't fathom is totally making it up. Yeah. That's gotta be it.

Okay, cool. I'm not trying to argue like on 4Chan--never even been on 4Chan, only know about it from my affiliation here.

You are clearly not military, because if you were, you'd know that when we say "Hollywood," that is an obvious reference to "anything that is not realistic" and not, necessarily, related directly to a geographic position slightly northwest of Los Angeles.

You can get butt-hurt all you want. I'm not trying to talk down to you. I'm not being disrespectful. Just having a conversation and the fact that I'm not going to satisfy your thirst for my qualification to respond in the way I do means nothing to me. You can take it or leave it--or, apparently, you can go to 4Chan yourself, where people act that way. I couldn't give two shits either way. Up to you.

So, you've read a couple books that has the term "confirmed kill" in it. Kudos. Congrats. The fact that people keep repeating it, from any nation, from any military, means absolutely nothing, except for the exact thing I am saying. It's complete bullshit. Journalists and writers repeating the term is the problem--not the answer to the problem.

And you can take it or leave it. I don't care. If you'd like, I could also explain to you why the earth is not flat. But, if you want to believe it's flat because someone said it's flat, more power to you. I am completely indifferent to it.

I don't know who you are, nor do I care, nor do I require any proof... But I can say to you, with total faith and honesty, NO ONE in the community talks like that. No one. There is no "Confirmed Kill" bullshit documentation. If there is, then find it! Not what someone said or what wrote about--I don't give a fuck. Find me a person--ONE PERSON--who has signed a "confirmed kill" document on a report somewhere. What is a "confirmed kill" for a sniper? You are bloody ludicrous if you think you shot a guy, may be dead, maybe not, then followed him the rest of his life to see if he died of his injuries... Official reports in the military are "objective" and not "subjective."

"A guy wrote about this bullshit thing which is completely bullshit" is purely proof of what I was saying.

I'm not a businessman; I'm a business, Man
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2019 11:51 PM by Dulceácido.)
02-09-2019 11:05 PM
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Paracelsus Offline
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Post: #1006
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
^^^

To be fair, snipers do file After Action Reports which indicate what they did. To be fair I doubt there's a specific box on the AAR to indicate whether you got a Double Kill, Triple Kill, or Monster Kill, but I've seen from several different sources - not just Kyle - that snipers often work with a spotter who helps to dial them in; that spotter often works as the witness for a kill shot.

And also to be fair, Kyle gives the impression he wasn't working with spotters most of the time, so who the hell knows.

Remissas, discite, vivet.
God save us from people who mean well. -storm
02-10-2019 01:16 AM
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Dulceácido Online
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Post: #1007
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
(02-10-2019 01:16 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  ^^^

To be fair, snipers do file After Action Reports which indicate what they did. To be fair I doubt there's a specific box on the AAR to indicate whether you got a Double Kill, Triple Kill, or Monster Kill, but I've seen from several different sources - not just Kyle - that snipers often work with a spotter who helps to dial them in; that spotter often works as the witness for a kill shot.

And also to be fair, Kyle gives the impression he wasn't working with spotters most of the time, so who the hell knows.

Although you are, admittedly, only speculating, you are absolutely correct in all of your assertions.

Every mission has an After Action Report (AAR). Yes, you do list all your actions. It is, almost never, written individually. Usually, it is written collectively and the individuals compile what happened. It should not come as a surprise that any number of people could have widely varying perceptions of the exact same event because each individual is deeply wrapped up in functioning and trying to succeed under stressful conditions. So, the accuracy of the report can be, and often is, called into question. Happens all the time. It is generally up to the author (usually the mission commander) what goes into the report, what doesn't, and everything in between before it is pushed up to higher headquarters. It is nothing more than a "de-brief." They can be "formal" and they can be "informal." It is supposed to be used as a training tool. It covers everything that went right and everything that went wrong, why it happened, what could have prevented it or how we can do it again, what could be done better in the future, what worked, what failed, etc...

And, no, there is no check box or space for someone to come sign saying, "I confirm this kill." Who would want to do that anyway? What if you had to confirm a war crime, a horrible mistake, or massive negligence? Can you imagine 17 guys sitting around each writing individual AAR's saying to one another, "Hey, can you come over here and confirm this kill for me?" "Yeah, I have a couple over here, I need you to confirm for me, too." That's ridiculous.

Snipers, traditionally (and still do, at times) work with spotters, but a lot of that has changed on the modern battlefield, especially in urban operations. The "spotter" is a fully qualified sniper and there is just no reason for him to be lying around looking through a spotting scope helping his sniper buddy make a shot that is almost assuredly going to be, in sniper world, very short range. Much better to have 2 snipers on two long guns killing bad guys.

I'm not a businessman; I'm a business, Man
02-10-2019 11:00 AM
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Post: #1008
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
(02-10-2019 11:00 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  Can you imagine 17 guys sitting around each writing individual AAR's saying to one another, "Hey, can you come over here and confirm this kill for me?" "Yeah, I have a couple over here, I need you to confirm for me, too." That's ridiculous.

I agree, it's ridiculous. And I'm very glad -- per guys like John T. Reed -- that sort of procedure is saved for when future Presidential candidates are awarding themselves Silver Stars.

Remissas, discite, vivet.
God save us from people who mean well. -storm
02-11-2019 07:48 AM
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Dulceácido
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Post: #1009
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
^^I wish I could "like" that twice. But, that's not how it really works either. I agree with his sentiments, but you can't take his word for it either. I would say that most of the higher awards are given for acts beyond reproach. The lower awards, well... They're pretty subjective in nature anyway. There is some degree of pandering going on and rank and favoritism are hard to rule out, so... Take it for what it's worth. If it's any consolation, the awards come with a "write up," which usually tells the story, especially if you're fluent in the bullshit way awards/evals are written in the military.

I'm not a businessman; I'm a business, Man
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019 07:49 PM by Dulceácido.)
02-11-2019 07:43 PM
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Post: #1010
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
16th Century Literature enjoyed me a lot. I hope I will read Shakespeare again whenever I am free. Lots of Romance involved in Shakespeare story.
02-12-2019 09:53 PM
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Paracelsus Offline
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RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
Time of Contempt, Andrezj Sapkowski

[Image: th?id=OIP.YYc79RBNvpvML5jdUxdAewHaKP&pid=Api]

Meh.

Remissas, discite, vivet.
God save us from people who mean well. -storm
02-13-2019 06:34 AM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
^Recently bought Blood of Elves by Sapkowski but haven't started it yet.

Kokkinakis banged your girlfriend. Sorry to tell you that mate.
02-13-2019 10:17 AM
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Post: #1013
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
[Image: 57e808de5c264a54ed70b00a6e596513.png]
02-13-2019 12:08 PM
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Post: #1014
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
[Image: 61IIV9d%2Bb%2BL.jpg]

I got interested in this subject while cruising through Wikipedia one night. Here's a quick blurb about the reactor disaster from the page:

Quote:On January 3, 1961, the reactor was being prepared for restart after a shutdown of eleven days over the holidays. Maintenance procedures required that the main central control rod be manually withdrawn a few inches to reconnect it to its drive mechanism. At 9:01 p.m., this rod was suddenly withdrawn too far, causing SL-1 to go prompt critical instantly. In four milliseconds, the heat generated by the resulting enormous power excursion caused fuel inside the core to melt and to explosively vaporize. The expanding fuel produced an extreme pressure wave which blasted water upward, striking the top of the reactor vessel with 460,000 foot-pounds (620,000 J). The slug of water was propelled at about 159 feet per second (48 m/s) with average pressure of around 500 pounds per square inch (3,400 kPa). This extreme form of water hammer propelled the entire reactor vessel upward at about 27 feet per second (8.2 m/s), while the shield plugs were ejected at about 85 feet per second (26 m/s). With 6 holes on the top of the reactor vessel, high pressure water and steam sprayed the entire room with radioactive debris from the damaged core. A later investigation concluded that the 26,000-pound (12,000 kg) (or 13 short tons) vessel had jumped 9 feet 1 inch (2.77 m), parts of which struck the ceiling of the reactor building before settling back into its original location, and depositing insulation and gravel on the operating floor. If not for the vessel's #5 seal housing hitting the overhead crane, the pressure vessel had enough upward momentum to rise about 10 feet (3.0 m). The entire time for the excursion, steam explosion, and vessel movement took between two and four seconds.

The sheer power behind this incident, moving a 26,000 lb vessel 9 fucking feet blew my mind. The book itself was a quick interesting read. This one Navy admiral named Rickeover was basically ZFG badass and steamrolled any opposition in his way to get Navy vessels powered by nuclear reactors and was a big reason why nuclear power has advanced as far as it has. I think nuclear power could solve a lot of issues with resources but it has a bad rap because when shit hits the fan, it REALLY hits the fan (Chernobyl, etc.)
02-13-2019 02:53 PM
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Post: #1015
RE: Whenever you finish a book, post it here
Into Thin Air - Jon Krakauer

Most are familiar with this book. Details the 1996 Mt. Everest expedition and the disaster that resulted in quite a few deaths. Very well-written and hard to put down. Krakauer is a good writer, I'll probably be checking out his other books in the near future.

Ancient Rome - Simon Baker

A book that accompanied the BBC series of the same name some years ago. Excellent overview, and I mean bare-bones overview, of six major periods of the Roman Empire, starting with its founding and all the way up to Constantine and its eventual decline. A solid 400 pages, which obviously is nowhere near enough to tackle such a big subject. I went into this book knowing absolutely nothing of Roman history and came out with a gist of what happened. Now I'm hooked and I wonder what I should read next. Any recommendations are welcome. Please no Edward Gibbon though, I don't have the patience for that.

Kokkinakis banged your girlfriend. Sorry to tell you that mate.
02-15-2019 01:07 AM
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