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Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
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Mr.GM Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 12:08 AM)Samseau Wrote:  As you can see, there's a little work left to be done on my abs... but it's fucking tough!!! If I cut down on the calories to get my six-pack showing, I start to lose muscle mass... so currently, I have been experimenting between optimal muscle retention and fat-loss, and I can't find a balance. It's only a matter of time before I figure out what works for me.

For me its the same.I'm realizing now that maybe,as a 5'7 guy,makes more sense and its easier to maintain a more slender look with some muscle mass volume,instead of going to bear mode.But finding the balance between bulk & fat loss still hard for me either.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2011 06:16 AM by Mr.GM.)
05-18-2011 06:10 AM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 12:08 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Totally dead on... I go to the gym 3 times a week, spending between 45min-1hr15min a workout (depends on my routine)... and after a year and a half, this is what I became:



As you can see, there's a little work left to be done on my abs... but it's fucking tough!!! If I cut down on the calories to get my six-pack showing, I start to lose muscle mass... so currently, I have been experimenting between optimal muscle retention and fat-loss, and I can't find a balance. It's only a matter of time before I figure out what works for me.

Your frame is fine. Are you sucking your gut in for that picture or is that a relaxed pose? For the past year, I've had to suck my belly in or else suffer from the pot belly with abs on top look.

Really though, as long as your stomach is flat, you can't really ask for any more. Some people have the body for abs (without losing muscle) and some don't.

Let it breathe.

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05-18-2011 10:03 AM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
A "6 pack" can be tricky to get and keep. Obviously, its mostly diet. The most important thing is what you eat/drink at night. You want to go to bed with an almost empty stomach. That way your body burns off all the extra belly fat while you sleep. If you go to bed on a full stomach, your body has to process all that food during the night, usually it just all goes straight to your belly.

Here is a night time diet that I use and it works great for keeping a 6 pack. I have experimented for years with many different diets but this one allows me to wake up in the morning with a tight abs.

Basically, it works like this...

Only eat fruits and vegetables after sunset. I know that sounds crazy but for me its no big deal since I don't go out at night and I rarely drink.

Buy a couple pounds of your favorite fruits. When they are ripe and ready to eat, peel them, chop them, and put them in the freezer in some type of container.

Eat your last real meal of the day before sunset or as early as possible.

After sunset, if you get hungry, take out your blender and a bunch of your frozen fruit...put some liquid like milk, water, coconut water, rice milk, soymilk, etc. into the blender along with the frozen fruit. Add a few nuts, dates, honey, and/or protein powder if you want. Blend it up into a homemade smoothie.

This is very light and easy on your stomach and passes thru your body very quickly, nothing really sticks to your belly, and its tasty and nutritious.

Another "after sunset" option is to make a big salad. I usually use lettuce, tomato, avocado, onion, with a little oil and vinegar as dressing.

This is the best "6 pack" diet I have ever seen. The rest of the day just try to eat as clean as possible. If your gonna eat bad, try to do it as early in the day as possible so your stomach has time to process it.

Tonight, at halftime of the Bulls-Heat game, I will probably use about 3 bananas, 1 mango, and a few almonds, blended up with some rice milk.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2011 02:13 PM by Giovonny.)
05-18-2011 02:06 PM
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MiXX Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
@Giovonny. Ha! Funny, you just described my diet to a T!

That is exactly what I do at night..and eat if I get hungry.

Mixx
05-18-2011 02:35 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
Try freezing melons also. Wait until they are at the peak of ripeness and them chop and peel them. In my freezer right now, I have a few pounds of frozen watermelons, honeydews, etc. These things are amazing for making "homemade Jamba Juice". And don't forget the Acai berries. Chicks love these tropical frozen drinks.
05-18-2011 03:42 PM
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glassjawed Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 02:06 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  A "6 pack" can be tricky to get and keep. Obviously, its mostly diet. The most important thing is what you eat/drink at night. You want to go to bed with an almost empty stomach. That way your body burns off all the extra belly fat while you sleep. If you go to bed on a full stomach, your body has to process all that food during the night, usually it just all goes straight to your belly.

Here is a night time diet that I use and it works great for keeping a 6 pack. I have experimented for years with many different diets but this one allows me to wake up in the morning with a tight abs.

Basically, it works like this...

Only eat fruits and vegetables after sunset. I know that sounds crazy but for me its no big deal since I don't go out at night and I rarely drink.

Buy a couple pounds of your favorite fruits. When they are ripe and ready to eat, peel them, chop them, and put them in the freezer in some type of container.

Eat your last real meal of the day before sunset or as early as possible.

After sunset, if you get hungry, take out your blender and a bunch of your frozen fruit...put some liquid like milk, water, coconut water, rice milk, soymilk, etc. into the blender along with the frozen fruit. Add a few nuts, dates, honey, and/or protein powder if you want. Blend it up into a homemade smoothie.

This is very light and easy on your stomach and passes thru your body very quickly, nothing really sticks to your belly, and its tasty and nutritious.

Another "after sunset" option is to make a big salad. I usually use lettuce, tomato, avocado, onion, with a little oil and vinegar as dressing.

This is the best "6 pack" diet I have ever seen. The rest of the day just try to eat as clean as possible. If your gonna eat bad, try to do it as early in the day as possible so your stomach has time to process it.

Tonight, at halftime of the Bulls-Heat game, I will probably use about 3 bananas, 1 mango, and a few almonds, blended up with some rice milk.

Starving yourself before sleep is pretty bad if you care at all about building or maintaining muscle mass. Sure if you just want to lose weight and can´t handle the cutting during day time, then go for it. The majority of muscle growth takes place at night while you sleep, so that´s the worst time to be running a calorie deficit. The way to lose fat is to eat less calories than you expend. However, your body doesn´t just have a time during the day where it counts the totals, this is an ongoing process. If you want to keep the most muscle while burning fat, it´s better to run neutral or even a slight surplus at night before going to sleep and then a larger deficit from morning until after you go to the gym.
05-18-2011 04:27 PM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 04:27 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  Starving yourself before sleep is pretty bad if you care at all about building or maintaining muscle mass. Sure if you just want to lose weight and can´t handle the cutting during day time, then go for it. The majority of muscle growth takes place at night while you sleep, so that´s the worst time to be running a calorie deficit. The way to lose fat is to eat less calories than you expend. However, your body doesn´t just have a time during the day where it counts the totals, this is an ongoing process. If you want to keep the most muscle while burning fat, it´s better to run neutral or even a slight surplus at night before going to sleep and then a larger deficit from morning until after you go to the gym.

Again, it's not the amount of calories per say but the TYPE of calories. I don't think Mixx and co are starving themselves, they are just eating food groups that will be easily digested during the night time when activity levels are extremely slow.

Besides, if a person actually starves himself, he will gain weight as the body will go into survival mode so starvation would defeat the purpose.

You dig?

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05-18-2011 04:33 PM
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glassjawed Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 04:33 PM)Moma Wrote:  
(05-18-2011 04:27 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  Starving yourself before sleep is pretty bad if you care at all about building or maintaining muscle mass. Sure if you just want to lose weight and can´t handle the cutting during day time, then go for it. The majority of muscle growth takes place at night while you sleep, so that´s the worst time to be running a calorie deficit. The way to lose fat is to eat less calories than you expend. However, your body doesn´t just have a time during the day where it counts the totals, this is an ongoing process. If you want to keep the most muscle while burning fat, it´s better to run neutral or even a slight surplus at night before going to sleep and then a larger deficit from morning until after you go to the gym.

Again, it's not the amount of calories per say but the TYPE of calories. I don't think Mixx and co are starving themselves, they are just eating food groups that will be easily digested during the night time when activity levels are extremely slow.

Besides, if a person actually starves himself, he will gain weight as the body will go into survival mode so starvation would defeat the purpose.

You dig?

Actually the number of calories is the absolute factor when gaining weight or losing weight. The type is important but secondary. I read an article about some professor who was only eating donuts and a multi vitamin at a deficit and managed to lose a significant amount of weight, most of which was fat (can´t be bothered to look for it right now.

If you actually starve yourself, there´s no way you can gain weight. I think what you were trying to say is that your body adapts to the lower calorie level after some time, which is true but irrelevant here.

I think in Mixx´ case, he is probably running on a maintenance calorie level and doesn´t care about having a lower BF%. If you are just doing that and care about looking good during the day to go to the beach, then this is fine, but I think most people are not in peak physical shape to the point where they can ignore losing muscle mass.
05-18-2011 04:47 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
I am absolutely not "starving myself". I eat tons of protein throughout out the day. And, of course, I load up on protein before and after I work out. I eat a big protein rich meal before sunset. But, at night, only eat fruits and veges. If you time it right, you will not be hungry and you will not lose muscle mass.

Here is a sample of my daily diet...

8am - smoothie (bananas, almonds, dates, coconut flesh, honey, protein powder)
9am - fresh fruits and nuts
10am - 5 or 6 egg whites, one whole egg, scrambled with veges. and tortillas.
1pm - fish, chicken, or steak tacos
3pm - peanut butter and jelly sandwich (pre work out)
6pm - another big meal (grilled chicken/fish/steak with brown rice and veges)(post work out)
8pm - fruit smoothie or salad
before bed - protein shake.


Also, this is my summer time "6 pack" diet. If I was just trying to get as big as possible, I would do things a little bit different.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2011 04:53 PM by Giovonny.)
05-18-2011 04:49 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 04:49 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I am absolutely not "starving myself". I eat tons of protein throughout out the day. And, of course, I load up on protein before and after I work out. I eat a big protein rich meal before sunset. But, at night, only eat fruits and veges. If you time it right, you will not be hungry and you will not lose muscle mass.

Here is a sample of my daily diet...

8am - smoothie (bananas, almonds, dates, coconut flesh, honey, protein powder)
9am - fresh fruits and nuts
10am - 5 or 6 egg whites, one whole egg, scrambled with veges. and tortillas.
1pm - fish, chicken, or steak tacos
3pm - peanut butter and jelly sandwich (pre work out)
6pm - another big meal (grilled chicken/fish/steak with brown rice and veges)(post work out)
8pm - fruit smoothie or salad
before bed - protein shake.

That´s fine if you are just interested in maintaning your current BF%, but I´m saying it´s not ideal if you are interested in decreasing it whether bulking, maintaining, or cutting. Like I said, your body uses these nutrients and calories throughout the day. Nutrients are absorbed pretty quickly, and whey protein especially will be absorbed within an hour. So basically if you are eating less at night, what will happen is that while you are sleeping, when your muscles really need the protein, nutrients, and calories to grow, they won´t be able to get them. You´re going to wake up loking lean but you will have less muscle in the long run than if you ate more before going to sleep.
05-18-2011 05:02 PM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 04:47 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  Actually the number of calories is the absolute factor when gaining weight or losing weight. The type is important but secondary. I read an article about some professor who was only eating donuts and a multi vitamin at a deficit and managed to lose a significant amount of weight, most of which was fat (can´t be bothered to look for it right now.

If you actually starve yourself, there´s no way you can gain weight. I think what you were trying to say is that your body adapts to the lower calorie level after some time, which is true but irrelevant here.

I think in Mixx´ case, he is probably running on a maintenance calorie level and doesn´t care about having a lower BF%. If you are just doing that and care about looking good during the day to go to the beach, then this is fine, but I think most people are not in peak physical shape to the point where they can ignore losing muscle mass.

I disagree with the bolded. A calorie is NOT a calorie. Your professor who lost weight eating only donuts and multi-vitamins AND losing mostly fat is a crock of shit. I wouldn't buy that for a penny.

Your body can utilize certain calorie types in a different way as opposed to others. Certain foods the body uses for storage and the others are used for immediate energy.

I have personally tried and tested this for over a decade now and it NEVER fails. Certain food groups have me feeling shytty and get my stomach swollen and others have me in a chiselled state.

If one wishes to snack during the evening and fears a calorie deficit that will cause a catabolic effect, thus cannabilising muscle proteins, they should snack on good fats, such as raw almonds, cashews, hazelnuts or Brazil nuts. That can be mixed with celery or salad.

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05-19-2011 11:43 AM
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Luckystar Offline
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RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 04:49 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I am absolutely not "starving myself". I eat tons of protein throughout out the day. And, of course, I load up on protein before and after I work out. I eat a big protein rich meal before sunset. But, at night, only eat fruits and veges. If you time it right, you will not be hungry and you will not lose muscle mass.

Here is a sample of my daily diet...

8am - smoothie (bananas, almonds, dates, coconut flesh, honey, protein powder)
9am - fresh fruits and nuts
10am - 5 or 6 egg whites, one whole egg, scrambled with veges. and tortillas.
1pm - fish, chicken, or steak tacos
3pm - peanut butter and jelly sandwich (pre work out)
6pm - another big meal (grilled chicken/fish/steak with brown rice and veges)(post work out)
8pm - fruit smoothie or salad
before bed - protein shake.


Also, this is my summer time "6 pack" diet. If I was just trying to get as big as possible, I would do things a little bit different.

Giovanny, how many calories per day is this diet? how many grams of protein?
05-19-2011 11:49 AM
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MiXX Offline
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RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
I agree with Moma. It's not the calories that count per se, but the chemical reaction your body has to the composition of your meals!! A lot of women I know starve themselves with these VLCD's and end up malnourished and unattractive.

My calories are usually around 1200-1400 a day.

Giovanny - I tried that smoothie last night:

Frozen Mango pieces and Almond milk sweetened with Truvia,....FUUUCKKKKING DELICIOUS MAN!!!!

Mixx
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2011 12:00 PM by MiXX.)
05-19-2011 11:58 AM
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Post: #64
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 05:02 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  That´s fine if you are just interested in maintaning your current BF%, but I´m saying it´s not ideal if you are interested in decreasing it whether bulking, maintaining, or cutting. Like I said, your body uses these nutrients and calories throughout the day. Nutrients are absorbed pretty quickly, and whey protein especially will be absorbed within an hour. So basically if you are eating less at night, what will happen is that while you are sleeping, when your muscles really need the protein, nutrients, and calories to grow, they won´t be able to get them. You´re going to wake up loking lean but you will have less muscle in the long run than if you ate more before going to sleep.

Gios diet is actually fundamentally strong, good amount of protein, good quality fats, slow burning carbs...I follow something similar minus the peanut butter jelly sandwich, there's very little nutritional value there and im guessing is an addition for the energy spike and he knows how it affects his body so he's cool adding it in and I like to throw in slower burning carbs first thing in the morning to help me push through the day ie Oatmeal then slower digesting protein (casein) at night coupled with a good fat source like a couple tbsp of natty peanut butter to further slow the protein digestion and keep muscle building optimal. My plan is more tailored to keeping me at minimal bodyfat maintaining my abs while being able to slowly add mass. Slightly different goals so slightly different plans but overall his plan is good. This isn't to anybody in particular just good advice, not all proteins are created equal and different types have different functions to optimize body performance you should educate yourself on the different types available to you. They've come a long way. Also I caution anyone against using someone elses plan everyone has their own set of macros that are optimal to their goal, Gio has figured out his doesn't mean you can't use his plan as a guideline but if you're 130 pounds of 220 pounds and you're thinking you're getting to the 6 pack on his plan you're probably in trouble, just follow his principles which are dead on. Right amount of protein, right type of carbs (for the most part, im gonna pick on the jelly sandwich again) quality fats...those are the things to emulate.
05-19-2011 12:29 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
Luckystar,

I don't know. I never count calories/protein. I just look in the mirror every morning when I wake up.

If I have excess belly fat.....I know I need to cut back on the fat and/or do more cardio type stuff.

If I look skinny.....I know I need more protein.

If I'm lifting weights but Im not getting bigger.....I know i need more protein

If I look muscular/strong with no extra belly fat.....I know I'm doing the right thing.

Thats really all I do. I'm sure my numbers are good because I don't gain any fat, I only gain muscle. If I eat too much fat, I will see it in my "love handles" the next morning.

Mixx,

Try using frozen watermelon pieces also. If the seeds bother you, pour it thru a pasta strainer after you blend it. (or buy seedless watermelon). My other fav right now is Acai with strawberries and bananas.

I love these smoothies when its hot out. I have 2-3 a day in the summer.

In the morning I use frozen bananas and rice milk, with almond butter, dates, coconut flesh, and honey.
05-19-2011 12:32 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-19-2011 11:58 AM)MiXX Wrote:  I agree with Moma. It's not the calories that count per se, but the chemical reaction your body has to the composition of your meals!! A lot of women I know starve themselves with these VLCD's and end up malnourished and unattractive.

My calories are usually around 1200-1400 a day.

Giovanny - I tried that smoothie last night:

Frozen Mango pieces and Almond milk sweetened with Truvia,....FUUUCKKKKING DELICIOUS MAN!!!!

Mixx

dude, at 2 bills that's a serious deficit, you're body is burning well above that during the course of a day you'd be borderline anorexic, your numbers have gotta be off. I'm in the 3000 cals a day range and im barely adding weight and im at 180. There's days 3000 cals doesn't feel like enough admire your discipline just can't wrap my head around how you're making it work.
05-19-2011 12:37 PM
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Moma Offline
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RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-19-2011 12:37 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  
(05-19-2011 11:58 AM)MiXX Wrote:  I agree with Moma. It's not the calories that count per se, but the chemical reaction your body has to the composition of your meals!! A lot of women I know starve themselves with these VLCD's and end up malnourished and unattractive.

My calories are usually around 1200-1400 a day.

Giovanny - I tried that smoothie last night:

Frozen Mango pieces and Almond milk sweetened with Truvia,....FUUUCKKKKING DELICIOUS MAN!!!!

Mixx

dude, at 2 bills that's a serious deficit, you're body is burning well above that during the course of a day you'd be borderline anorexic, your numbers have gotta be off. I'm in the 3000 cals a day range and im barely adding weight and im at 180. There's days 3000 cals doesn't feel like enough admire your discipline just can't wrap my head around how you're making it work.

I don't even count calories personally. If I eat right, my body generally lets me know when enough is enough. But that's me, for others, counting is a good idea.

I say if your issue is hunger, causing you to overeat then fool your body by adding fibre to your diet.
Prepare your meals in advance. The same way you game on lizards, have at least a plan b and c in terms of GOOD food stashed around the house (or on your person).

Celery is a great way to dupe the body. You can dip the sticks in tahini or sesame seed paste (these are good fats but you may want to observe the caloric intake). Largely, however, you can go ape shit on the celery and you won't see a single handle to show for it since your body will use most of the energy trying to break the fibre down and you'll shit it all out again.

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05-19-2011 12:44 PM
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Post: #68
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
Mikeymike,

You are right on the money. I can tell that you know what you're talking about. I like your suggestions about oatmeal in the morning and a little peanut butter at night. And its funny what you said about my peanut butter/jelly sandwich. But, you're right and I like your observations. You probably know more about this shit then me. Thanks
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2011 12:49 PM by Giovonny.)
05-19-2011 12:45 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
i wish I could eat fruits. im the pickiest eater alive. i dont like ANY fruits that im aware of and only a handful of veggies.

and for those of you stressing over 6 packs. honestly as long as ur stomach is fit and firm it will not cause you to lose out on a fuck imo. granted having a 6pack is great and women love it. i love big firm tits but guess what thats not a prerequisite for me smash. But for most ppl the effort and constant diet watching is just not worth it. If you are in shape and have some game ur gonna get that ass, 6pack or not.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2011 01:01 PM by Dash Global.)
05-19-2011 12:53 PM
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RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
If you´re only taking in 1200-1400 a day at 205 lbs, 8%BF, and doing cardio constantly, you should be losing about 5 lbs a week by my estimation. That has to be off. I take in more than that and I weigh much less than you and am on a cutting cycle right now. Also Mixx, I´m curious how long it took you to get to your current weight and where you started it. I´m asking because I´m the same height as you and am trying to figure out an ideal weight. I don´t want to be too big though so I´m also curious if girls generally consider you really jacked.

By the way, I never said the type of food you eat isn´t important. That´s obvious. I was just saying if you´re talking about gaining or losing weight, what it will come down to ultimately is the number of calories you eat. The type of food you eat will effect how it is stored. If you eat 500 more than you burn of whatever food you want, it will be stored somehow. If you eat 500 less, your body will burn it from somewhere. That´s it.


(05-19-2011 11:58 AM)MiXX Wrote:  I agree with Moma. It's not the calories that count per se, but the chemical reaction your body has to the composition of your meals!! A lot of women I know starve themselves with these VLCD's and end up malnourished and unattractive.

My calories are usually around 1200-1400 a day.

Giovanny - I tried that smoothie last night:

Frozen Mango pieces and Almond milk sweetened with Truvia,....FUUUCKKKKING DELICIOUS MAN!!!!

Mixx
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2011 04:57 PM by glassjawed.)
05-19-2011 04:54 PM
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Chad Daring Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-19-2011 11:43 AM)Moma Wrote:  
(05-18-2011 04:47 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  Actually the number of calories is the absolute factor when gaining weight or losing weight. The type is important but secondary. I read an article about some professor who was only eating donuts and a multi vitamin at a deficit and managed to lose a significant amount of weight, most of which was fat (can´t be bothered to look for it right now.

If you actually starve yourself, there´s no way you can gain weight. I think what you were trying to say is that your body adapts to the lower calorie level after some time, which is true but irrelevant here.

I think in Mixx´ case, he is probably running on a maintenance calorie level and doesn´t care about having a lower BF%. If you are just doing that and care about looking good during the day to go to the beach, then this is fine, but I think most people are not in peak physical shape to the point where they can ignore losing muscle mass.

I disagree with the bolded. A calorie is NOT a calorie. Your professor who lost weight eating only donuts and multi-vitamins AND losing mostly fat is a crock of shit. I wouldn't buy that for a penny.

Your body can utilize certain calorie types in a different way as opposed to others. Certain foods the body uses for storage and the others are used for immediate energy.

I have personally tried and tested this for over a decade now and it NEVER fails. Certain food groups have me feeling shytty and get my stomach swollen and others have me in a chiselled state.

If one wishes to snack during the evening and fears a calorie deficit that will cause a catabolic effect, thus cannabilising muscle proteins, they should snack on good fats, such as raw almonds, cashews, hazelnuts or Brazil nuts. That can be mixed with celery or salad.


Coconut milk is a good example of this. From what I've read its almost pure fat, but due to the type of fat your body is incapable of storing it as fat and will burn it all into straight energy. I tried this once at work, I mixed an entire can (about 1000 calories worth) of coconut milk with a few packets of Splenda and drank it over the course of 15 minutes, about 30 minutes after that I got an energy rush like I couldn't believe. It felt like I had mainlined red bull.

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05-19-2011 05:09 PM
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MiXX Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-19-2011 04:54 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  If you´re only taking in 1200-1400 a day at 205 lbs, 8%BF, and doing cardio constantly, you should be losing about 5 lbs a week by my estimation. That has to be off.

Actually it's right, I just don't do a lot of cardio "constantly". Maybe I'll run 3x per week for 20 minutes in the sand. I use to jog uphill 40% incline 7 miles every other day while I was shaving down BF. I also have binge days every other Saturday, where I will consume close to 4000 or more calories of junk food: Pizza, pastas, spanish rice, mexican food Smile

(05-19-2011 04:54 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  I take in more than that and I weigh much less than you and am on a cutting cycle right now.

My weight is mostly muscle weight, in particular my legs..I have soccer playe/bike rider legs so it does not surprise me that you eat more, and weigh less....lots of my friends easily weigh 20lbs less than me, and consume about 2500Kc per day. My brother weighs 180 (5'11" too), and eats about 3000Kc per day, and never does cardio..go figure.

(05-19-2011 04:54 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  Also Mixx, I´m curious how long it took you to get to your current weight and where you started it. I´m asking because I´m the same height as you and am trying to figure out an ideal weight. I don´t want to be too big though so I´m also curious if girls generally consider you really jacked.

I actually gained a lot of body fat in 2007 (it was a year I flew 1st class everywhere), and blew up to a whopping 27% BF at 247lbs...I WAS FAT, and extremely furious about it!!! Sad

It took me about 14 months to shed down to 14% BF, where I hit a plateau, and then I started mixing/matching foods more, and reduced to 800Kc per day (with 1.5 Gallons of water daily)and 250 Grams of protein..that brought me down to 9% BF @ 205lbs. My current stats.

(05-19-2011 04:54 PM)glassjawed Wrote:  By the way, I never said the type of food you eat isn´t important. That´s obvious. I was just saying if you´re talking about gaining or losing weight, what it will come down to ultimately is the number of calories you eat. The type of food you eat will effect how it is stored. If you eat 500 more than you burn of whatever food you want, it will be stored somehow. If you eat 500 less, your body will burn it from somewhere. That´s it.

Based on what my nutrionist/dietician tells me on IM right now, not necessarily the case. Your body will develop a pattern of burning calories based on what your Hypothalamus gland has set as your ideal weight. Mine was reset to 200lbs, and even when I have my binge days 2x per month, I don't gain an oz.

it takes the body 3 days to store unused calories to Sub Q fat, (not structural or reserver FAT) most will go to reserves, and WILL burn off if your eating right most of the time.

Mixx
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2011 05:26 PM by MiXX.)
05-19-2011 05:22 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
(05-18-2011 10:03 AM)Moma Wrote:  
(05-18-2011 12:08 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Totally dead on... I go to the gym 3 times a week, spending between 45min-1hr15min a workout (depends on my routine)... and after a year and a half, this is what I became:



As you can see, there's a little work left to be done on my abs... but it's fucking tough!!! If I cut down on the calories to get my six-pack showing, I start to lose muscle mass... so currently, I have been experimenting between optimal muscle retention and fat-loss, and I can't find a balance. It's only a matter of time before I figure out what works for me.

Your frame is fine. Are you sucking your gut in for that picture or is that a relaxed pose? For the past year, I've had to suck my belly in or else suffer from the pot belly with abs on top look.

Really though, as long as your stomach is flat, you can't really ask for any more. Some people have the body for abs (without losing muscle) and some don't.

Let it breathe.

No sucking in, perfectly relaxed. My abs are extremely strong. I can have a 200 lbs jump on my stomach no problems. Tested this with my fat brother.



Quote:If you´re only taking in 1200-1400 a day at 205 lbs, 8%BF, and doing cardio constantly, you should be losing about 5 lbs a week by my estimation. That has to be off. I take in more than that and I weigh much less than you and am on a cutting cycle right now. Also Mixx, I´m curious how long it took you to get to your current weight and where you started it. I´m asking because I´m the same height as you and am trying to figure out an ideal weight. I don´t want to be too big though so I´m also curious if girls generally consider you really jacked.


This is false. You aren't taking into account of a person's metabolism, which roughly falls into three camps:

1. Slow metabolism (the fat people, like MiXX, who only need 1200-1500 calories a day)
2. Medium metabolism (the genetic winners, who only need 1750-2250 calories a day)
3. Fast metabolism (skinny guys, like me, who need between 2500-3500 calories a day)

As you can see in this thread, there are people who range all over the place in terms of metabolism... one of the great principles of muscle gain is to figure out how fast your metabolism so you can make a good diet.

When I was young, I could eat AS MUCH AS I WANTED, and have zero weight gain... I could eat boxes of cheez-itz, M&M's, chips, pancakes w/syrup, and basically whatever I wanted with zero weight gained... it was awful. Never put on one pound of muscle.

Now, I only need around 2500 calories a day to slowly gain muscle and avoid fat. I was so happy when my metabolism started to slow down. I hate having to eat all the damn time.
05-21-2011 12:24 PM
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Basil Ransom Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
I never saw the point of abs - a girl's usually not going to see them until she's in bed with you - by then, she's already fairly hooked. That said, having a cut *face* is probably the most important.

(05-21-2011 12:24 PM)Samseau Wrote:  When I was young, I could eat AS MUCH AS I WANTED, and have zero weight gain...

I hear skinny guys say this all the time, but I'm skeptical. Unless you have worms, eating a lot is going to catch up with you. Skinny guys think they eat a lot, but really they just binge eat. Watch them over time, and I guarantee they aren't getting 4000+ calories daily, day in day out. I had a BMI of 17 at 6'1", now it's 25, so I know the binging and the consistent heavy eating. There are no hardgainers, just guys who don't eat enough.

That said, there is such thing as max genetic potential. Check this - http://weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

PS If you want to piss off an entire bodybuilding forum, post that link.
05-21-2011 07:07 PM
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Paideia Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Strong & Fat or Weak & Ripped
Don't forget arms. At least I've earned many compliments on mine. But hey, why not just look good all over?

Samseau: you should bulk first, then lose muscle mass.

So eat like a monster and stick to bench, deadlift and squats. Each exercise will complement the others in increasing your growth (assuming you eat adequately). You should be doing splits, 2 or 3 day splits, twice a week, in order to clobber each muscle group. Do light cardio on the side.

When you've reached a good stopping point, cut lifting back to 3 times a week, and hit cardio 6 times a week, or just do crossfit 5 times a week, and aggressively cut back your eating. The heavy lifting is imperative because your body will struggle to retain its strength but make up the energy deficit you're creating. Fat will be the first to go.

I lost 10 lbs, mostly fat/beer, in less than six weeks through a combination of dieting, lifting heavy at the gym, doing "living-room" work-outs and running long-distance and high-intensity intervals on alternate days. Worked out 9-12 times a week (once in the AM, once in the PM).
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2011 05:13 PM by Paideia.)
06-10-2011 05:08 PM
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