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Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
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RIslander Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
The cop that tried to separate everyone was too aggressive and thats what started the brawl. They should of stood back and spoke without an aggressive tone. But, then again, this family was looking for a fight.

Other than the initial aggression I think the cops did a solid job. They were surprised and unorganized at first but once shots were fired they seemed to get themselves in the zone. They showed great restraint and when the officer was wounded he did a good job of keeping distance from the attackers.

As an above poster said, this is just a typical weekend in the UK. Its also what a typical weekend looked like in anytown USA 30-40 years ago. My old man is a cop and he said the biggest threat he ever faced back in the day was an ass kicking.
04-11-2015 10:16 PM
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Ziltoid Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-11-2015 06:04 PM)Lika Wrote:  When I look at the face of the three children, I can't help but feel pity. They look like they were brainwashed and never went to school, totally lost and probably retarded intellectually. They look like they do not even understand what happened.
If there is any primary factor at work in creating brainwashed, intellectually retarded people in the US, it's public schools and universities.

What's your fucking problem? You hate these people solely because they're religious weirdos?
How about instead of cheering what happened to them you go fuck yourself and ponder the notion that maybe it reflects worse on you than them that you wouldn't fight back to help your family if they were getting beaten up. Pussy.

I'm signing onto the notion that the cops fucked up big time here...
Swagger up to a peaceful group of people standing around already cooperating and talking to other officers, bark orders to split up for no reason, arrest a guy for saying "no we're not splitting up" (not illegal), start a brawl when you're outnumbered. It's clear that in the minds of the officers the most serious offense committed here was contempt of cop.

Wonder if we'll get to hear Jimukr's valuable and levelheaded input on this topic.
04-11-2015 10:39 PM
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civpro Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
Hmm, fighting some cops, what could possibly go wrong
04-11-2015 10:58 PM
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infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-11-2015 10:45 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I disagree with the report that they had some sort of 'secret police fighting techniques' They were just tough motherfuckers. There is also something superhuman about fighting alongside your family. When i was younger and I'd get into it with people alongside my brothers, we were unstoppable.

Big nuclear families are a solid threat to deal with, see "Clans" in scotland and ireland, Appalachian hillbillies, the black donnelys, Utah mormons.

I watch this video and it makes it clear to me why the government wants single mother led households, without churches, and without guns. If this was not a family, they would have either complied with separation or run for the hills every man for himself, with 1 or 2 getting apprehended.

Its not only big nuclear families that is tough to deal with but extended families as well. The breaking apart of extended families to more weaker nuclear families and then into atomized individuals goes a long way to weakening people.
04-12-2015 12:42 AM
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Kabal Away
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Post: #55
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-12-2015 12:42 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 10:45 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I disagree with the report that they had some sort of 'secret police fighting techniques' They were just tough motherfuckers. There is also something superhuman about fighting alongside your family. When i was younger and I'd get into it with people alongside my brothers, we were unstoppable.

Big nuclear families are a solid threat to deal with, see "Clans" in scotland and ireland, Appalachian hillbillies, the black donnelys, Utah mormons.

I watch this video and it makes it clear to me why the government wants single mother led households, without churches, and without guns. If this was not a family, they would have either complied with separation or run for the hills every man for himself, with 1 or 2 getting apprehended.

Its not only big nuclear families that is tough to deal with but extended families as well. The breaking apart of extended families to more weaker nuclear families and then into atomized individuals goes a long way to weakening people.

Yeah, the disintegration of extended family units ("clans") into nuclear families (and now into individuals) is something that we are so inured to in "The West", but extended family was/is the central point of social life for most people in other countries.

This is associated with a battery of other social-behavioral traits, especially with regard to the Hajnal Line.

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(This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 01:10 AM by Kabal.)
04-12-2015 12:56 AM
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infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
Delete.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 01:13 AM by infowarrior1.)
04-12-2015 01:12 AM
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BortimusPrime Offline
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RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
So it was an unarmed teenager shot to death by the police in a physical confrontation, right? All right African-Americans, time to start protesting and lying down in the streets! Let's start invading those brunches and smashing up Korean convenience stores to really stick it to the man! Oh wait, you don't care? Because the victim was white?

Racists.
04-12-2015 01:40 AM
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spokepoker Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
I wonder if this family will want Al Sharpton's help.

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04-12-2015 01:45 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-11-2015 05:37 PM)rpg Wrote:  Religious brainwashing is like meth.

Progressive brainwashing makes people believe gender differences are socially constructed; natural male sexual desire is unhealthy; all penis in vagina sex is 'rape'; women never lie about rape; children don't need a mother and a father to be happy; homosexuality and trans-sexuality are superior to heterosexuality and should be promoted; all whites have 'privilege'; and the need to breed whilst young and fertile is just a patriarchal fiction designed to keep women from having careers.

These are the beliefs of the 'educated minds' who will be looking down and laughing at the poor and / or religious for their 'ignorance'.

I know who I'd rather have as neighbours.
04-12-2015 01:47 AM
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Lika Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-11-2015 06:13 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  Who cares if they were fanatically religious?

Apparently, they did not do any serious crime. They just had an altercation over the bathroom with an employee. So they had nothing to fear from the police control and there was no logical reason not to comply with what the police asked them to do and start fighting them physically.

The only apparent reason is that they are religious fanatics believing that any cop is a demon working for Satan...

I do not think religion is bad and I couldn't care less if they were atheist, vegetarian, Christian, Muslim or communist. It is their choice... I just think that their FANATICAL beliefs got them slaughtered.

(04-11-2015 10:39 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 06:04 PM)Lika Wrote:  When I look at the face of the three children, I can't help but feel pity. They look like they were brainwashed and never went to school, totally lost and probably retarded intellectually. They look like they do not even understand what happened.

What's your fucking problem? You hate these people solely because they're religious weirdos?

Why do you think I hate these people? I wrote exactly the opposite: when I look at the children I don't feel hate but pity. "pity" = "a strong feeling of sadness or sympathy for someone"
I think these children were doing exactly what their father taught them to do. They were loyal and strong to their family, but the father is insane and was ready to get them all killed over nothing.

(04-11-2015 10:39 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  How about instead of cheering what happened to them you go fuck yourself

Are you drunk? Where did I write that I am cheering what happened to them?

(04-11-2015 10:39 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  it reflects worse on you than them that you wouldn't fight back to help your family if they were getting beaten up. Pussy.

The right way to fight for your family is to protect them from harm and not getting them killed by policemen over no reason at all. It seems like you agree with the actions of the father (who by the way didn't even try to fight physically for his family. He is the only one not charged with assault. Even his wife and daughter are...).
The father only escalated the situation and didn't try to protect his children. One word from him and his children would have stopped fighting. To my mind, he is a piece of shit, like anyone who agrees with his actions.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 05:14 AM by Lika.)
04-12-2015 04:41 AM
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Post: #61
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-11-2015 10:39 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  I'm signing onto the notion that the cops fucked up big time here...
Swagger up to a peaceful group of people

who had just assaulted and battered a Walmart employee

Quote:standing around

having just assaulted and battered a Walmart employee

Quote:already cooperating

and ready to fight

Quote:and talking to other officers, bark orders to split up for no reason

probably as a matter of policy or departmental recommendation,

Quote:arrest a guy for saying "no we're not splitting up" (not illegal), start a brawl when you're outnumbered. It's clear that in the minds of the officers the most serious offense committed here was contempt of cop.

Cops respond to a report of an assault and battery of a Superstore employee have a right to handle the suspects in the way that they are trained to.

They have a right to separate the suspects and interview them individually.

In this case, there was more than enough probable cause.

If you want to go the whole "a law until ourselves" route, you'd better have a compound somewhere and not go around assaulting and battering people who have a right to request the protection of the state.

The people at fault here are the assholes camped out living in a suburban on private property who assaulted and battered a Walmart employee.

I don't usually like the whole "just doing our jobs" stickt that people like to wheel out, but in this situation, the cops are absolutely not to blame.
04-12-2015 05:04 AM
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Eusebius Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
Feel like there are some really strange reactions to this video here (and elsewhere). It's tragic. And a lesson that you cannot mess with armed police. That's all. Have guns, make the rules.
04-12-2015 05:05 AM
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VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
This is not about families and clans, religion, or big government, or any national political or social issue. If the police had been better at their jobs, this would have been a completely unremarkable event that might not have even ended up involving any arrests, let alone a melee and shootings.

Police officers are basically workers in a giant zoo, and their job is to control the animals and keep things running smoothly - resorting to force is counter to this goal. They failed. When force is used, outcomes are unpredictable and costs become huge. If you have to shoot a lion because it got pissed off, escaped its cage, and is rampaging around, you have already made a series of avoidable errors. I am not saying that force is never the best choice, but there is usually a better option if someone is intelligent and controlled enough to act optimally.

At the outset of the whole encounter, a single well trained and intelligent police officer, preferably a female (they are perceived as less threatening by males primed for aggressive behavior) could have defused the entire situation. I know a highly intelligent, quick witted, creative, half Italian woman who speaks 4 languages (she is sexy as fuck and has a voice that is soft and sweet) and is a crisis intervention officer at a major police department in Southern California. I would bet any amount of money that if she had been on that call and had been given two minutes to talk to the family, there would have been no violence.

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(This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 05:35 AM by VolandoVengoVolandoVoy.)
04-12-2015 05:30 AM
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RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-12-2015 05:04 AM)Suits Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 10:39 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  I'm signing onto the notion that the cops fucked up big time here...
Swagger up to a peaceful group of people

who had just assaulted and battered a Walmart employee

Quote:standing around

having just assaulted and battered a Walmart employee

Quote:already cooperating

and ready to fight

Quote:and talking to other officers, bark orders to split up for no reason

probably as a matter of policy or departmental recommendation,

Quote:arrest a guy for saying "no we're not splitting up" (not illegal), start a brawl when you're outnumbered. It's clear that in the minds of the officers the most serious offense committed here was contempt of cop.

Cops respond to a report of an assault and battery of a Superstore employee have a right to handle the suspects in the way that they are trained to.

They have a right to separate the suspects and interview them individually.

In this case, there was more than enough probable cause.

If you want to go the whole "a law until ourselves" route, you'd better have a compound somewhere and not go around assaulting and battering people who have a right to request the protection of the state.

The people at fault here are the assholes camped out living in a suburban on private property who assaulted and battered a Walmart employee.

I don't usually like the whole "just doing our jobs" stickt that people like to wheel out, but in this situation, the cops are absolutely not to blame.
Ready to fight? Are you fucking stupid or just not watching the same video?
They were nonchalantly standing within arms distance of two officers, everyone's posture was relaxed.

One or more of them was alleged to have committed an assault.
At that point, did the cops magically knew what happened? In your world are cops omniscient? How did they know that the woman in question didn't instigate the fight? They had exactly as much probable cause to put the Walmart employees in cuffs at that point as they did the family.

The cop who showed up was being a hotheaded faggot and tripped off the entire thing, when they should have been focused on hearing people's accounts and statements, not divide and conquer intimidation. There's no other way to interpret the video. Thanks for playing.

Keep on deep throating the state's venous cock, I'm sure they'll repay your loyalty with a cushion spot in the bureaucracy?
04-12-2015 05:34 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #65
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-12-2015 05:34 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  Are you fucking stupid or just not watching the same video?

Breathe. Breeeeaaathe....

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04-12-2015 05:54 AM
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RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
3 day ban for Ziltoid. He crossed the line with his insults.

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04-12-2015 06:26 AM
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T and A Man Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-12-2015 01:40 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  So it was an unarmed teenager shot to death by the police in a physical confrontation, right? All right African-Americans, time to start protesting and lying down in the streets! Let's start invading those brunches and smashing up Korean convenience stores to really stick it to the man! Oh wait, you don't care? Because the victim was white?

Racists.

#ChristianLivesMatter
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 07:24 AM by T and A Man.)
04-12-2015 07:21 AM
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Orion Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
As much as these were brainwashed with religion, so much the cops were brainwashed with procedure. They can't do shit without speaking procedural shit "allright let's do this, let's do that, step over here, step over there".

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04-12-2015 08:06 AM
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robreke Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
Jesus, what a mess.

Videos like this make one think there must be a way cops could better transition from giving a suspect an order to immediately resorting to force if the order isn't followed. I know one of the brothers seemed to step up and start it here. But, look at the result, a family beaten to a pulp and a 21 year old kid shot dead ( I think he was shot while he was on the ground....wtf?)
Cops need know how do something different as opposed to going straight from making requests/orders to engaging/defaulting the "brute" mentality of ...."ok, now I'm gonna stroke you across the head with my night stick since you didn't take two steps back like I told you and hit you up with some pepper spray" I think many cops default to violence too quickly. Normal everyday citizens are not used to violence as a way of life. It's a bit "shocking" and scary to them, as most of us don't use physical force against other humans every day. Cops do this regularly. So some (most) cops develop this almost brutish mindset.

When regular citizens are confronted with this behavior from cops....they're like 'wtf is happening, I was just running to get a carton of milk and here I am getting my ass kicked?" Many understandably panic. To a cop, it's like " meh, I beat up some criminals last week and the week before, what's the big deal throwing this dad and brother to the ground in front of his wife and daughters. I'm used to doing shit like this" To the everyday citizen it's shocking and horrifying as they were just trying to buy some eggs at piggly wiggly before bedtime.

It seems this could have been negotiated better. Albeit, it's easy for me to type this as I wasn't there and I know cops have tough jobs. This one just seemed to escalate when a smarter strategy might have been used.

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(This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 11:08 AM by robreke.)
04-12-2015 11:04 AM
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urbannomad Away
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Post: #70
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
(04-12-2015 01:40 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  So it was an unarmed teenager shot to death by the police in a physical confrontation, right? All right African-Americans, time to start protesting and lying down in the streets! Let's start invading those brunches and smashing up Korean convenience stores to really stick it to the man! Oh wait, you don't care? Because the victim was white?

Racists.

Seriously dude? The reports say he took the officer gun and shot him in the leg..If anything it shows zero tolerance for people of color. .

(01-06-2015 04:37 AM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  You can bring broads to logic but you can't force them to think.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 04:26 PM by urbannomad.)
04-12-2015 04:24 PM
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spokepoker Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
I thought the officer shot himself in the leg.
I need to re-read some stuff.

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04-12-2015 04:39 PM
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urbannomad Away
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RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
He might not had complete control of the weapon like some reports suggest. .It appears that during the struggle for the gun it went off and hit the officer in the leg.

(01-06-2015 04:37 AM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  You can bring broads to logic but you can't force them to think.
04-12-2015 05:13 PM
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infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
The situation could have easily escalated to one of the officer or officers simply pulling out their gun and shooting the whole family dead. The family is lucky that only one of them died.
04-12-2015 10:44 PM
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Ingocnito Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
That was the craziest police video, hands down, I've ever seen ! Sing of the times.
04-12-2015 11:04 PM
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CaptainChardonnay Away
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Post: #75
RE: Religious family has insane brawl with Arizona police, two shot
Separating people is a normal tactic for cops. They do it to ask everyone questions and see if the answers match up to get a better idea of whats going on and also to tell if people are lying.

Cops do not use their guns unless their lives are being threatened. Its called the escalation of force.

I'm however not choosing sides. I admire this family's bond with one another, despite their stupidity. If I ever have a family of my own one day I hope our bond will be as strong as that.
04-16-2015 03:43 PM
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