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Making Money The "All Things Freelance" Thread
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Beyond Borders Away
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The "All Things Freelance" Thread
The Elance thread has been going on for ages, and it still gets people popping in to remind us how shitty of a place Elance is to get clients. Yeah, we get it, and I've cautioned from the beginning of the thread that there were better ways to get high-value work.

I still beg to differ that you can't build a solid business on Elance. Hell, I actually cancelled a $1000 job there yesterday because the client was being an ass about releasing 50% of my fee upfront (standard for copywriters). I didn't need the money, but I felt a bit insulted the way he handled it; it was a matter of principle. I also didn't feel like being treated like an employee strung along on an "allowance."

I've got another client there who actually pays me to study copywriting in my own time on the side!

Anyways, I digress. I thought it would be a good idea to have a more generalized freelance thread.

Elance has always been my bread and butter, but it it's a very time-intensive marketing channel unless you hire a bidder. Other things I'm working on right now include:

- Emailing companies directly. Have had success in the past. Yesterday I sent out one query and got one response - imagine that. Wink

- Blogging. Just finished my site redesign to focus more heavily on copy specifically and blog is ready to roll. The blog is not only great for traffic but is a huge cred-builder with clients I meet elsewhere. I had one client email me to say I was a "mind magician" because one of my articles hooked him so well. He said he went to the site to see my portfolio and spent two hours reading. Nice.

- LinkedIn. Beefing up my profile and will be sharing my articles there. I get some VERY SOLID prospects hitting me up with messages there sometimes.

- Paid advertising. This will be new territory for me, but some of my best copywriting clients are KILLING IT. I expect a learning curve, but I aim to reverse engineer what they're doing. (Note: I'm focusing more on PPC campaigns, but if anyone has an engaged high-traffic site they think would be interested in my services, I might be willing to try that too. PM me.)

We don't have to restrict this thread to marketing. As the title suggests, feel free to banter about anything regarding freelancing. And yeah, that's not restricted to writing services either.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2015 01:47 AM by Beyond Borders.)
05-07-2015 12:52 AM
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Dan Woolf Offline
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
While waiting for comprehensive datasheet on freelancing outside of Elance, I have a quick question. What kind of copywriting samples should I have and in what format?
05-07-2015 09:52 AM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
^ It kind of depends on what copy you want to do.

I mostly just keep mine in pdf files, but some clients will definitely want to see links.

That said, keep in mind that many sites will go down over time (especially with low to mid-range clients), so if you do manage to keep a list of updated links, back those up with PDFs or some other format for your own files. I like to keep a Word copy too and from time to time I polish my samples up, usually when I'm redesigning my site or negotiating with a client who is a notch above what I've worked with before.

It's important to always be stretching.
05-07-2015 02:21 PM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
I agree that having your own website is a good idea. I decided to go and register my real name as a .com after hearing Vic at Bold And Determined make the recommendation. It doesn't get a lot of hits, but it is a way to give people and idea of what I can do. I may have already landed a job that way, waiting to hear back from a local media producer who was impressed.
Fun fact: I met her thinking about hiring her for my company and she ended up talking about my freelance work. Then she wanted to know if she could hire me!
And no jokes on "getting paid the hard way". Although it did cross my mind.Banana

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(This post was last modified: 05-07-2015 02:50 PM by ColSpanker.)
05-07-2015 02:49 PM
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Dan Woolf Offline
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(05-07-2015 02:21 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ It kind of depends on what copy you want to do.

I mostly just keep mine in pdf files, but some clients will definitely want to see links.

That said, keep in mind that many sites will go down over time (especially with low to mid-range clients), so if you do manage to keep a list of updated links, back those up with PDFs or some other format for your own files. I like to keep a Word copy too and from time to time I polish my samples up, usually when I'm redesigning my site or negotiating with a client who is a notch above what I've worked with before.

It's important to always be stretching.

Yeah, PDF is a great format. I keep all my articles, creative writing etc. samples as PDF, it's just so easy. But I only have writing samples. And even if I didn't have any writing samples for articles and so on, it would be easy to knock some out and put in my portfolio. But what about copywriting? I expect potential clients would like to see samples like this:

[Image: KWXqqTE.png]

[Image: mdDQdUc.png]

Problem is, I don't have any. What would be the best way to go about getting them?
05-07-2015 03:59 PM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Quote:Yeah, PDF is a great format. I keep all my articles, creative writing etc. samples as PDF, it's just so easy. But I only have writing samples. And even if I didn't have any writing samples for articles and so on, it would be easy to knock some out and put in my portfolio. But what about copywriting? I expect potential clients would like to see samples like this:

[Image: KWXqqTE.png]

[Image: mdDQdUc.png]

Problem is, I don't have any. What would be the best way to go about getting them?

You should pick-up Pete Bowerman's Wellfed Writer. It's a great book to get started(I'm using it) or sign-up for Carol Tice's freelance writer den.

Bowerman suggests make mock samples. Find a graphic designer on elance or graphic design major. You can pick local companies to make print ads, video scripts, etc for.

Carol has a great module on her webiste for starting out. She suggest try to do pro-bono work for non-profits. This is good b/c

1) You'll have to learn to do cold-calls.
2) You'll need to study their existing materials to see what they're lacking in.

She has a whole audio course on her subscription site. It's gold so if you want it, I'll download it and e-mail it, just pm me.

(08-18-2016 12:05 PM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  ...and nothing quite surprises me anymore. If I looked out my showroom window and saw a fully-nude woman force-fucking an alligator with a strap-on while snorting xanex on the roof of her rental car with her three children locked inside with the windows rolled up, I wouldn't be entirely amazed.
05-07-2015 06:00 PM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Copywriting is not easy. I'm currently breaking in. It's a career path just like anything else.

Still though, there is apparently money to be made. Keep grinding at it and getting better every day. That's all you can really do.
05-07-2015 08:07 PM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
@Dan Woolf: Good question. Short answer is to narrow down your niche as far as what topic you're writing about, and then figure out what you want to write/what you're good at. My specialties are sales letters and email marketing, so I have about 2-3 of each as samples on my site. PDF, mind you--never want to make it easy for a poacher to ctrl+c + ctrl +v...

If you're just starting out, I'd say pick popular products in evergreen niches for your samples. Health, Wealth, and Sex are "The Big 3." If you want to write sales letters, one of each (spec) for an existing product might be the way to go. Granted, this isn't popular advice, since it requires effort, but if you put in the work and come up with some killer shit, it'll pay for itself many times over.

As far as layout is concerned...you have a few options:

-Trade services with a graphic designer. You give them the words, they give you the pics. A lot of times, this only works with struggling/just starting GDs, but the silver lining is that they can be decently-attractive chicks looking to Banana

Do It Yourself. This is mostly what I've done. I've sprung for Optimize Press--love it, but not sure how helpful it is compared to cheaper options. Very work-intensive. Not for the faint of heart.

Outsource. I'm dealing with this right now, and in a lot of ways, it's tougher than just doing it yourself. Listings, interviews, frauds, circling back, checking more prospects, figuring out that THEY'RE frauds too--just goes to show that the modern man's game is sales.

The bottom line is make as many samples as you need to in order to convince potential employers that you're awesome. Don't like this? Think it's cocksucker-y? Get fucked! Laugh

Seriously, though, prob about 2-4 samples of each type of service you're advertising. Have a lot of potential services? This'll force you to pare things down a bit & figure out what you really want to do. Honestly, I've found the most success pitching a given niche (sales letters, newsletters, bios, etc.) and then a client or prospect will ask "do you do Y too?" Be great at something first, then "fake it til you make it" if you want to branch out.

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05-08-2015 01:01 AM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(05-07-2015 03:59 PM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  Problem is, I don't have any. What would be the best way to go about getting them?

You raise some great questions, Dan. Problem is that as far as legit copywriting goes (as opposed to web content, blogging, etc), I'm just shifiting into it full-force right now. I'm making very steady progress, but there's a lot of corners I've cut that I need to round out - and maxing out my portfolio is one of them, so I'm not the best guy to ask about this (hopefully someone with more experience will chime in).

Goldin Boy has a great suggestion regarding having a graphic designer suss you out. You can write stuff just to practice and get a Filipino on the task.

If you want help with that, hit me up. I've got a designer that used to work for me full-time and we just reconnected last night to get a logo for my site. I'm planning to approach him about taking all my PDF examples and turning them into glossy mockups, and I envision it being very cost-effective. Remember, these guys do free mockups all day long to land clients, so most are going to be happy to do this as a paid side service.

If you want help whipping something into shape, pm me and I'll get my guy on the job. One or two ought to give you some ground to stand on.

Never forget that breaking into freelancing in the beginning requires the spirit of a hustler - I don't mean hustling as in working hard like you hustle on a football field. Yeah, that's important too, but I'm talking about hustling like being the guy who can take nothing, like most of have when we start, and flip and twist and stack into something. I mean, you can take a longer approach if you want, but hustling is how you climb fast.

(05-07-2015 06:00 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  You should pick-up Pete Bowerman's Wellfed Writer. It's a great book to get started(I'm using it) or sign-up for Carol Tice's freelance writer den.

Both of the above are required reading for any serious freelancer, in my opinion.

(05-07-2015 08:07 PM)jake1720 Wrote:  Copywriting is not easy. I'm currently breaking in. It's a career path just like anything else.

Still though, there is apparently money to be made. Keep grinding at it and getting better every day. That's all you can really do.

The bolded exactly.

That is the ticket that has really brought me back around to enjoying and feeling fortunate about what I do. It's also the ticket to the renewed progress I'm making.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 01:21 AM by Beyond Borders.)
05-08-2015 01:16 AM
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VincentVinturi Offline
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
When I first started online I dabbled with elance and oDesk a little bit, but my feeling right from the start was that I'm fishing in the wrong pond.

The problem with these sites is several fold:

A) You have to bid on people's jobs.

Think about this dynamic.

Somebody posts a job and a bunch of people have to basically compete for the honor of maybe getting hired for a shit payday.

There is another way...


B) You're competing with people who will outbid you all day.

Granted, most of the schmucks on there don't know their ass from their elbow.

They just talk a big game.

Believe I know because I've hired so many morons who make big promises, take 50% up front, fuck it up, and then 'sorry sir' you while happily walking off with half the fee while you're left with dick in the wind.

Sure, you *might* get the job but why fight an uphill battle if you don't have to?


C) Here's the big one:

You can NOT properly market yourself by the very nature of these platforms.

The best you can do is do a bunch of jobs, get good reviews, raise your prices and then proceed to compete with other premium sellers.

But you still don't 'own' your destiny on these platforms.


So what's the alternative?

I've said it before around here and I'll say it till I'm blue in the face - the Warrior Forum is a vastly superior marketplace to oDesk, freelancer, shmeelancer and all those other sites.

I have zero affiliation with the Warrior Forum and yes I know it's stuffed to the gills with a bunch of scammy, fly by night eBook sellers.

But that's irrelevant if you're a quality freelancer because as long as you offer any of the services that are of use to internet marketers, like:

- graphics
- copywriting
- article writing
- website setup
- seo
- paid traffic
- etc

...then you can sell your services on the Warrior Forum to those exact people who are most likely to buy them.

The Warrior Forum has over 700,000 members who are all potential buyers of your dog food.

My love of Warrior Forum as a marketplace to sell your services is predicated on the fact that I was able to quickly build several services from scratch using their platform in a very short amount of time.

I had an article writing service, which is the first thing I did online (successfully), where I charged 7 cents a word and had more business than I could possibly handle.

In fact, I got carpal tunnel from all the typing and dropped the whole thing.

I did several successful services on the Warrior Forum but let's use the writing as an example.

Here's my old thread:

http://www.warriorforum.com/warriors-hir...nover.html

It's defunct and there are no payment links but it's a good example of why WaFo blows oCrap and eShit out of the water.

1. You post your service thread and customers come to YOU.

You still have to hustle for your first business of course but think about the dynamic reversal here over other marketplace sites.

2. You can properly market yourself via your thread and signature.

This is the crucial differentiator.

If you look on my thread you'll notice several elements of good copywriting:

- social proof in the form of copious glowing reviews
- authority
- likeability (I'd like to think)
- the ability to edit your thread over and over and refine the copy, insert reviews, etc.
- Warrior Forum threads rank like crazy in Google
- Ability to go around the forum contributing real value, and have people click through to your thread via your signature

The ability to add in reviews right to the top of your thread is pretty dope.

You start off by giving away some review copies or discounted work, gather the reviews, paste them in your thread, and keep raising your prices.

It's really that simple.

Just see how far you can push it before the market balks.

You will be very surprised at what people are wiling to pay, especially if you're in the position of having more work than you can possibly take on.

Which *will* happen if you deliver quality work, and it goes without saying that if you don't do this, none of the other shit you do will matter.

But on the other hand, it is absolutely untrue that quality work will speak for itself without solid marketing behind it.

I still regularly have people email me for this and my other services asking if I'm still doing XYZ and can they work with me.

In the case of my current business, my Warrior Forum thread is the biggest source of leads (that come in on autopilot by the way).

More than my blog, more than referrals, and more than guest posts/podcasts I've done.

I'm not saying you can't do well on oDesk and eLance and those other sites; you can as BB and many others can tell you first hand.

What I *am* saying is that while most people are busy hating on Warrior Forum because there's hundreds of thousands of cats selling snake oil, somebody is selling legitimate services on there to a very targeted audience who know the value of great work.

Get money.

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(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 09:52 AM by VincentVinturi.)
05-08-2015 09:47 AM
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ColSpanker Offline
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
^^^Will definitely be checking out this option!

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05-08-2015 10:16 AM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Yep, there is definitely a TON OF potential on the WF.

I've renewed my efforts over there and just picked up my latest client from the new campaign (which didn't get much love). I've done jobs off and on there for years.

I think I would do much better if I started with a freebie or somethign really cheap, but I'm too stubborn. Might just cave and give it a go to build more WF testimony and ramp it up. I like the sound of autopilot. Wink

Actually, the guy who has done better than anyone else here (he's a more silent member - he puts his head down and works) since we started with the elance thread was the guy who took my advice to start copywriting at the WF and ran with it. He's moved on to bigger and better things but that was his catalyst.

And the client that gives me the most steady work (met him on Elance) got his start there too, so what does that tell you?

One caveat, I will say, though, Vincent, is that I saw your prices on your article thread (they were very similar to the ones I charged at WF), and they were nowhere near what clients have paid me on Elance. It's possible you just didn't move yourself into the higher markets, though. I know there are WF guys getting paid hundreds per article, mostly behind the scenes.

But yea, you can't go wrong with advertising that keeps bringing it in. Think I'll bump later this week. Once you get the ball rolling without you, it's probably very well worth it because you cut out a lot of the haggling process and save time.

What do you recommend as a starting price for sales pages over there to build testimony? And would you limit that price to buyers with a certain number of posts and clout?
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 11:07 AM by Beyond Borders.)
05-08-2015 10:56 AM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Saying the WF is better than Elance is like saying one chick is less busted than another.

It's still a lousy place to get quality clients. You're dealing with 99% BROKE internet marketers who have less money than you do. And renting yourself out at 7 cents a word 'til your hands shrink isn't a good testimony for the platform (no offense, Vince).

This is why I say go OFFLINE. Any brick-and-mortar is going to have more cash to pay you high rates simply due to the realities of running a physical business. Higher start-up costs, operational costs,etc..If you go after any decent-sized company, they won't bat an eyelid about cutting you a check for $10,000. It's a rounding error in their marketing budget.

I'm going to write a datasheet this weekend about how prospect offline effectively. Meant to get it up earlier, but I've been swamped.

p.s. I'm not anti-internet marketing. Everybody should read about IM, and use that knowledge to launch their own businesses/product. But I do think these guys make terrible clients.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 11:22 AM by Chick Magnet.)
05-08-2015 11:22 AM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Tsk, tsk.

Guys, to be honest, the entire reason I started this thread was to get away from the whole "elance sucks" (go back and reread the OP) and "this place sucks" and "this strategy is better" conversation. Not everything is a competition and the whole bit is seriously getting worn-out.

Everyone has different experiences, and the majority of the time when you bash on something when someone else says they had a completely different experience, it's because, well, you had different experiences and you're probably missing some info the other person has.

This whole line of discussion is starting to remind me of guys constantly contradicting each other's choice in women. Pointless.

So, let's move past this convo and just exchange tips and experiences.

There's no need to go write a datasheet - feel free to share here. The title is "All Things Freelance" for a reason, so let's get on with the conversation.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 11:51 AM by Beyond Borders.)
05-08-2015 11:39 AM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(05-08-2015 10:56 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  What do you recommend as a starting price for sales pages over there to build testimony? And would you limit that price to buyers with a certain number of posts and clout?

You can post something like "5 review copies left at 50% off", or whatever you think is a reasonable discount.

I've never really considered limiting the review copy buyers to folks with a certain amount of posts.

Maybe you can offer to rewrite some squeeze pages for free.

That won't take much time and you can get reviews quick and maybe if somebody tests the copy vs their old version you can get a testimonial with increased conversion rate %.

(05-08-2015 11:22 AM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  Saying the WF is better than Elance is like saying one chick is less busted than another.

It's still a lousy place to get quality clients. You're dealing with 99% BROKE internet marketers who have less money than you do. And renting yourself out at 7 cents a word 'til your hands shrink isn't a good testimony for the platform (no offense, Vince).

This is why I say go OFFLINE. Any brick-and-mortar is going to have more cash to pay you high rates simply due to the realities of running a physical business. Higher start-up costs, operational costs,etc..If you go after any decent-sized company, they won't bat an eyelid about cutting you a check for $10,000. It's a rounding error in their marketing budget.

I'm going to write a datasheet this weekend about how prospect offline effectively. Meant to get it up earlier, but I've been swamped.

p.s. I'm not anti-internet marketing. Everybody should read about IM, and use that knowledge to launch their own businesses/product. But I do think these guys make terrible clients.

No offense taken. Smile

I've always wanted to get into offline marketing but I move around so much that it seemed like I'd better invest in the online thing and make it work.

A lot of the OGs on the Warrior Forum who actually know what the hell they're doing and made a shit ton of money offline and THEN online started off doing offline stuff.

I should have clarified in my post that the writing was just a convenient example.

Writing (articles) is actually a terrible service to offer.

Even if you can get paid really, really well, the ROI on your time and effort is shit and 9 times out of 10 whatever you're writing about will bore you to tears.

It's also unscalable unless you hire a team, but that's a different game.

Consulting is a great way to get on your feet, get out of the 9-5 grind, save some money and learn your market and valuable skills.

But it's still slow lane stuff because you can't scale your consulting; it isn't a proper business.

One of the best things I did in my current business was to productize.

Happy to expand on what that means if anybody's curious.

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05-08-2015 12:00 PM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
I'd like to add to this thread by saying Vincent's book (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KTKXZVC) is a worthwhile purchase for anyone involved with freelancing.

I got it a couple weeks ago, this is the first time I bring it up anywhere.

It's nothing revolutionary for those already with their feet wet or deep into freelance work, but I guarantee you'll draw in a few tips from it.

It's also a steal at the price it's offered.

No affiliate here, nor have I even mentioned VV before this post, but it's always good to give back to guys that are providing you value.

On that note, I can also vouch for BB's books on his website (http://notesfrombeyond.com) as well. They are more than well priced. Check them out already!
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 12:30 PM by Nascimento.)
05-08-2015 12:29 PM
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RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(05-08-2015 12:00 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  One of the best things I did in my current business was to productize.

Happy to expand on what that means if anybody's curious.

Hell yeah we're curious! Speaking for myself, I know what the term means but I'd be very interested to hear how you were able to transition in your particular case.
05-08-2015 12:50 PM
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Post: #18
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(05-08-2015 11:39 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Tsk, tsk.

Guys, to be honest, the entire reason I started this thread was to get away from the whole "elance sucks" (go back and reread the OP) and "this place sucks" and "this strategy is better" conversation. Not everything is a competition and the whole bit is seriously getting worn-out.

Everyone has different experiences, and the majority of the time when you bash on something when someone else says they had a completely different experience, it's because, well, you had different experiences and you're probably missing some info the other person has.

This whole line of discussion is starting to remind me of guys constantly contradicting each other's choice in women. Pointless.

So, let's move past this convo and just exchange tips and experiences.

There's no need to go write a datasheet - feel free to share here. The title is "All Things Freelance" for a reason, so let's get on with the conversation.

I'm not knocking other methods for my personal entertainment. The reality is...knowing what NOT to do is half the equation to success in life.

And frankly, I've never met a successful freelancer who worked exclusively online.

And my question to the guys pushing Elance or WF as a viable platform is...
How much are you making?

I made $82,000( after taxes) last year as a freelancer. Not a fortune but I've only been in this game for a couple years, and I work a 25 hour week on average.

Very few people are doing that well on Elance.

If you want to power through the nonsense there...that's fine. But it's not the most efficient way to land high-paying clients. And the newbies ought to know that before they go down that rabbit hole.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 01:04 PM by Chick Magnet.)
05-08-2015 01:04 PM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #19
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Here's the thing. I hate it when people speak like their way is the only way when it's clear they know half the story. It's something I try to avoid as much as possible myself because I'm at least smart enough to know there's a lot that I don't know.

That's my problem with going through this BS again.

Your info is more than welcome, but there's clearly a lot about online markets you don't know about, so in some ways you're speaking from a place of ignorance, experienced or not.

I typically make the same hourly as you and often quite a bit more on the bidding sites and market(ed) myself every other month or so (that has changed now). I haven't made a big monthly in quite some time because...I've been a lazy bastard. There are men on this forum who can vouch for my timesheets (and lack of overall follow-through).

I've had $1200 - $1500 days working for clients I met online. Sure, not a full schedule, but I never made the effort. The work was there if I wanted it. I blew a lot of opportunities partying like an animal. I believe my highest hourly ever was $300.

I made about $1600 this week. I also turned away a $1000 sales page job because the guy pissed me off (I easily could have fit that in too). I only started marketing myself seriously again a few weeks ago and am definitely not back to my maximimum rates again yet.

But again, this thread was established to stop rehashing that same conversation. No one ever said Elance was the ideal, and that's why I started this thread - to stop going in this circle. So forgive me if it's a bit annoying for you to jump in and restart the same conversation I started this to get away from (announced in the OP).

Let's hear about how you land your offline clients and stop kicking the dead horse. It's not going to get us anywhere, and if you enjoy that kind of thing, there's an entire thread about Elance that you can go preach in. http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-26887.html
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 02:10 PM by Beyond Borders.)
05-08-2015 01:11 PM
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Dan Woolf Offline
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Post: #20
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
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(This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 06:08 PM by Dan Woolf.)
05-08-2015 02:53 PM
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Post: #21
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(05-08-2015 01:11 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Here's the thing. I hate it when people speak like their way is the only way when it's clear they know half the story. It's something I try to avoid as much as possible myself because I'm at least smart enough to know there's a lot that I don't know.

That's my problem with going through this BS again.

Your info is more than welcome, but there's clearly a lot about online markets you don't know about, so in some ways you're speaking from a place of ignorance, experienced or not.

I typically make the same hourly as you and often quite a bit more on the bidding sites and market(ed) myself every other month or so (that has changed now). I haven't made a big monthly in quite some time because...I've been a lazy bastard. There are men on this forum who can vouch for my timesheets (and lack of overall follow-through).

I've had $1200 - $1500 days working for clients I met online. Sure, not a full schedule, but I never made the effort. The work was there if I wanted it. I blew a lot of opportunities partying like an animal. I believe my highest hourly ever was $300.

I made about $1600 this week. I also turned away a $1000 sales page job because the guy pissed me off (I easily could have fit that in too). I only started marketing myself seriously again a few weeks ago and am definitely not back to my maximimum rates again yet.

But again, this thread was established to stop rehashing that same conversation. No one ever said Elance was the ideal, and that's why I started this thread - to stop going in this circle. So forgive me if it's a bit annoying for you to jump in and restart the same conversation I started this to get away from (announced in the OP).

Let's hear about how you land your offline clients and stop kicking the dead horse. It's not going to get us anywhere, and if you enjoy that kind of thing, there's an entire thread about Elance that you can go preach in. http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-26887.html

I started out marketing exclusively online. So I do have a point of comparison.

My initial venture on those sites was so frustrating that I nearly gave up the whole freelancing thing.

And there's the problem: you're doggedly defending a platform where the odds are stacked against you and any newbie freelancer will likely end up discouraged, if not quitting entirely.

I happened to watch one of your youtube vids, BB, in which you talked about your recent financial struggles saying, "I was down to 3 bucks one day".

Now, I'm not one to hit a man that's down but evidently your methods aren't working for you.

There's so much smoke and mirrors in this 'work online frenzy'. Most of the gurus didn't make a penny doing what they're preaching.

It's a classic case of the blind leading the blind.

And I like to spare the new guys from that crap, because the confidence of fledgling entrepreneur is a fragile thing.

Anyhow, I'll say no more on this. And sometimes this weekend, I'll get that datasheet up.
05-08-2015 04:38 PM
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Post: #22
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Yes, please stop clowning around in this thread and go start your datasheet if you can't resist marrying this one topic. That video was from some months ago. I just said a couple posts ago that I just got serious about working in the past few weeks.

But to address your "info-drop," I'm completely upfront about myself and my situation, and I'm well aware people here see my videos. Obviously I have nothing to hide if I make such blatant public confessions (not exactly the sneakiest "guru" move), and if you can't make that conneciton on your own, the only guy blind here is you.

Do you have some other "top secret info" you'd like to divulge? Because there isn't a weakness I haven't confessed to this forum and the world with my face behind it yet, Buddy.

All of that is beside the point. There's an entire internet out there with countless marketing channels and you're in here pretending it's not possible to make a steady living without going offline. Give me a break.

We all know there is great potential in the offline world, and while most of us are location independent, we're welcoming your input and advice. But the fact is I matched your rates in a couple weeks of marketing, and here you are pointing at a video from months ago and saying "I told you there's no money doing this online" and acting like you're on some campaign to "call people out."

Call me a slacker and an unproductive loser (actually, probably not a good idea), but if you can't see the potential of a guy like me matching your weekly earnings coming from how I was conducting myself before with just a bit of hustling, you're obviously not ready to be intelligent about information outside your sphere. The problem is clearly not the market - the problem is (was) my work ethic.

But I will repeat. Post value here if you want to contribute - you don't have to drag down what other people are doing to be heard.

I also said time and time again that guys should not start on Elance if they're desparate. In fact, what do you know, here's a screenshot from my very first monster post in that thread.

   

Which is why I got tired of hearing this line of conversation in the other thread and started a new one, which, if you're read the OP again, was calling first for an exploration of other marketing channels.

You're the one hung up on bidding sites, not me. I'm more than happy to move on to something else.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 05:41 PM by Beyond Borders.)
05-08-2015 04:53 PM
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Post: #23
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Edit: @ Chick Magnet not BB

The great doesn't have to be the enemy of the good. I think just about anyone with a pulse agrees that Elance isn't the meaning of life, there is no need to bash it to death. It's there as an option. Guess what, cold calling brick and mortar businesses isn't a panacea either, but I'm not going to call you an idiot and suggest that instead of wasting your time on the phone with secretaries, you instead work for McKinsey for a year so you can launch a management consulting practice and land those 6 week, $100,000 "assessment" contracts that executives hand out to their friends in order to rubber stamp initiatives.

There is always something better, no need to shit on things just because they're not the absolute acme.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 05:02 PM by Fast Eddie.)
05-08-2015 05:01 PM
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Post: #24
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
peopleperhour doesn't have many mentions around here, most of them probably mine.
Not a terrible freelance site; you can sell fixed-price bundles of services (seller setting the price, not the site) as well as bidding on jobs, and you can offer physical products too, like drawings in hard copy and such.
If you have a site of your own, you can get an on-page widget that shows your profile so readers can click through and buy from you right there-handy for copywriters and those in similar jobs, since you can list your finished projects and testimonials and put the widget next to them for easier sales.
You can also stand out by paying for service profiles which turn up first in a search.
The aggregate prices will get driven down, but since most people wanting writing jobs will go with native speakers and not the lowest price, it's still a possibility to make some extra.

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05-08-2015 05:54 PM
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Post: #25
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(05-08-2015 04:53 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I also said time and time again that guys should not start on Elance if they're desparate. In fact, what do you know, here's a screenshot from my very first monster post in that thread.

TYPO:Meant to say should not start on Elance UNLESS they're desparate.


Sigh. You guys get the fucking point.

Does anyone here have solid Adwords experience (for a client, not me)? I might have some work and not sure if I can count on my other guy's scheduling.

It's nothing immediate, and I want to see a history of successful campaigns, even if it isn't extensive.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 06:35 PM by Beyond Borders.)
05-08-2015 06:25 PM
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