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The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
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eljeffster Offline
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The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
Despite progress in reversing the cultural decline, we have to realize that we are the rebels and the Feminist Empire is about to shove its lightsaber up our collective ass.

[Image: badass-emperor.jpg]

The false accusation hysteria train is leaving college town and coming to a city near you. The Community of the Wrongly Accused blog lays it all out for anyone interested and you should be interested. Essentially, there are proposed changes being deliberated by the American Law Institute to the Model Penal Code that make it easier to accuse men of sexual assault and rape and put the burden on men to prove consent.

The Model Penal Code is not law, but it heavily informs and influences law. Once legislature start passing bills to conform, and once judges and written opinions start to cite to the MPC- it's all over.

read about it here:

http://www.cotwa.info/2015/05/the-most-p...dy-in.html
05-16-2015 10:32 AM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
This is an extremely important post, and I urge every single poster and lurker on the forum to read the entirety of the memo posted at the end of the COTWA post, and also here.

What we are dealing with is a conscious attempt by the US legal elite, the people who have by far the greatest influence on the language and content of laws all over the country -- and indirectly, all over the world -- to criminalize normal sexual behavior. As detailed in the memo, under this draft proposal, virtually every sexual interaction becomes a potential crime. This is not exaggeration or hyperbole; it is the literal content of the draft proposal.

Here are some relevant paragraphs from the memorandum:

Quote:To understand the draft, please consider a most common behavior in the following hypothetical: Person A and Person B are on a date and walking down the street. Person A, feeling romantically and sexually attracted, timidly reaches out to hold B’s hand and feels a thrill as their hands touch. Person B does nothing, but six months later files a criminal complaint. Person A is guilty of “Criminal Sexual Contact” under proposed Section 213.6(3)(a).

How can this be? The draft explains:

Section 213.0(5) defines “sexual contact” expansively, to include any touching of any body part of another person, whether done by the actor or by the person touched. Any kind of contact may qualify; there are no limits on either the body part touched or the manner in which it is touched…. (Discussion Draft No. 2, Substantive Material, at 31).

The offense arises because Person A failed to obtain the draft’s requisite prior “positive agreement” to the “sexual contact.” Section 213.0(3)
. The draft repeatedly “makes clear that when a complainant’s behavior has been passive—neither expressly inviting nor rebuking the defendant’s sexual advances, that behavior cannot be considered sufficient to show affirmative permission.” (Discussion Draft No. 2, Substantive Material, at 54) Person A’s guilt is absolute because, “feeling romantically and sexually attracted” and feeling “a thrill as their hands touch,” Person A has no defense against the accusation that the touch included the “purpose of sexual gratification… or sexual arousal.” Section 213.0(5).

The draft purports to preserve mens rea as an element of the offense, but that is no comfort because it is proven with barely an effort from the prosecutor: “Person A, When walking down the street side by side with your date, you knew, or knew of the risk, that Person B had not expressed prior positive agreement that you could reach out and hold B’s hand, didn’t you? In fact, that’s exactly why you were “timid” about it, right?” To avoid making the prosecutor’s task so simple, Person A must not testify but, as shown below, Person A will have great need to testify because of the shifting of the evidentiary burden that is caused by the “positive agreement” standard. Note that Person A is still guilty even if they were both wearing gloves. Section 213.0(5) (“clothed or unclothed”)

Consider the same couple, but now Person B responds to the criminal hand-holding by pausing to kiss Person A on the cheek. Person A remains guilty since there is no mechanism for retroactive consent, but now Person B is also guilty because Person A has not expressed prior positive agreement for this particular escalation. Under this scenario, the actions of both A and B would satisfy the elements of the offenses. Thus, they would be adjudicated as sex offenders, would be required in many states to register as such and would suffer the other collateral consequences of conviction for a sex offense.

At every stage of every physical relationship, the “perpetrator” is at risk with no safe harbor of any type. If the initiator got positive agreement “sufficient to show affirmative permission” (Discussion Draft No. 2, Substantive Material, at 54) to initiate a kiss, the initiator is still at risk because the accuser can always counter by asserting, “I didn’t say you could kiss me that way.” If the initiator got positive agreement “sufficient to show affirmative permission” and did the kiss the right way, the initiator is still at risk with the next identical kiss because, “I didn’t say you could kiss me twice.” The draft acknowledges that its standard “requires the fact finder to focus on the existence of consent regarding each of the disputed sex acts.” Id. and Section 213.0(3).

Again, please realize that while all this reads as a parody or some sort of obvious nonsense that no one could seriously contemplate, it is deadly serious -- the legal elites are fully intending to consider and very possibly adopt these lunatic and nightmarish proposals to change the Model Penal Code, so that they may serve as templates for actual laws to be passed in the US.

Moreover, the drafters of the proposals are well aware that they are criminalizing everyday normal male sexual behavior, and are doing so consciously and by design. As they themselves explain in the following key paragraph:

Quote:On the one hand, it is customary—at least for serious felonies—to reserve the social opprobrium and strong penalties of the criminal law for conduct that is universally condemned as intolerable. By this measure it would be acceptable, perhaps even obligatory, to define the sexual offenses quite narrowly, restricting them to clearly aberrational behavior and declining to attach penal sanctions to conduct that significant segments of our society regard as predictable, harmless, or even valuable in some circumstances. On the other hand, a vitally important function of the criminal law is to identify and seek to deter behaviors that pose unjustifiable risks, even when those risks are not yet universally understood…. [The law] must often be called upon to help shape those norms by communicating effectively the conditions under which commonplace or seemingly innocuous behavior can be unacceptably abusive or dangerous. (Discussion Draft No. 2, General Commentary, at 11).

In other words, these people feel that they are uniquely qualified to identify "unjustifiable risks" that lurk in normal everyday behaviors, and they take it upon themselves to shape social norms "by communicating effectively the conditions under which commonplace or seemingly innocuous behavior can be unacceptably abusive or dangerous."

If this sentence does not send a chill down your spine then you don't understand what you are reading, and what we are dealing with here. These people -- some of the most influential legal elites in this country and in the world -- are entirely and explicitly committed to the monstrous Year Zero ideology of reshaping "social norms" that are as old as mankind itself by criminalizing the most normal and "commonplace or seemingly innocuous behavior", in their own chilling words. They are consciously willing to imprison a man who reaches out to kiss a girl or to hold her hand, and to label him a "sex offender" to be registered for life, all in the cause of fundamentally changing the most basic ways in which men and women interact with each other -- something they feel they are justified in doing, since they are in possession of knowledge about the right way these things should be done, and it is their mission to see to it that all of us see the light, sooner or later, or face the consequences.

These proposals are cause for very serious alarm, and it is extremely important that they come under very close scrutiny, and that anyone who is in a position to do so shine a light on these proposals and explain just what is going on, and who the people responsible for it are. If they are adopted, and later serve as a basis for laws in the US and elsewhere, no normal man living in the US, and possibly in other Western countries, is immune from their nightmare consequences.

********************************

I feel that this matter is of such grave importance that I may create a separate thread to discuss and explain the content of the uniquely evil and nightmarish ALI proposals in even greater detail. But I wanted to post this as soon as possible.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
05-16-2015 11:51 AM
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Grange Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
There is one encouraging takeaway: the proposals are very controversial within the ALI. The legal profession is overwhelmingly liberal politically but conservative as regards the law, that is they are hesitant to make sweeping changes to the law. This might end up being a good thing, with the radicals overextending themselves and the rest of the profession swatting them down.

A separate but related point is that laws can be written to say whatever you want, but "the law" must be interpreted. I think it's impossible that if legislation like this passed (itself unlikely) the American judicial system would let it stand.

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05-16-2015 12:03 PM
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eljeffster Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 11:51 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  I feel that this matter is of such grave importance that I may create a separate thread to discuss and explain the content of the uniquely evil and nightmarish ALI proposals in even greater detail. But I wanted to post this as soon as possible.

Very well stated and explained to give full gravity to the situation and I would agree the issue might need a new thread because of how important it is.

Thank You.
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2015 12:08 PM by eljeffster.)
05-16-2015 12:04 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
eljeffster, thank you for your post. I will make another thread on this matter when I finish reviewing all the relevant documents; this may take some time.

Thank you for drawing our attention to this unprecedentedly alarming misandrist threat.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
05-16-2015 12:10 PM
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kbell Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
I think a ROK article would be better Lizard. It will get more exposure and with luck some controversy which would help it spread further.
05-16-2015 12:16 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 12:03 PM)Grange Wrote:  There is one encouraging takeaway: the proposals are very controversial within the ALI. The legal profession is overwhelmingly liberal politically but conservative as regards the law, that is they are hesitant to make sweeping changes to the law. This might end up being a good thing, with the radicals overextending themselves and the rest of the profession swatting them down.

A separate but related point is that laws can be written to say whatever you want, but "the law" must be interpreted. I think it's impossible that if legislation like this passed (itself unlikely) the American judicial system would let it stand.

Grange, I would assume nothing. We have already seen that laws like Yes Means Yes, which are a trial run for these even more sweeping and unprecedented proposals, were passed with huge majorities. There is absolutely no telling just how far this will go, and I would not take comfort in any assumptions about what the American judicial system will or will not bear. The facts on the ground are shifting, and the people who hold sway in these professions now belong to generations that are willing to contemplate some real changes; and they are feeling their powers now like never before.

I view this initiative, and what it implies, as an unprecedented threat to men in the US and elsewhere in the West, the most serious threat we have encountered. It is not easy to come to terms at once with the severity of the threat, but I believe that it will become increasingly clear over time.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
05-16-2015 12:19 PM
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kbell Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
Why though? This will bite everybody? What advantage is there for the elite if nobody wants to get into relationships?
05-16-2015 12:36 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 12:36 PM)kbell Wrote:  Why though? This will bite everybody? What advantage is there for the elite if nobody wants to get into relationships?

single parents on the dole dependent on government funding, men locked up in the industrial jail complex?

not to mention a wholesale swinging of the pendulum of power such that women have the ability to ruin a man's life if he hits and quits?
05-16-2015 12:39 PM
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Moto Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
What can us pee-ons do about it?

Perhaps there is a petition already out there, or we can start one.

Which representatives can we contact to halt this monstrosity?
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2015 12:45 PM by Moto.)
05-16-2015 12:44 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 12:36 PM)kbell Wrote:  Why though? This will bite everybody? What advantage is there for the elite if nobody wants to get into relationships?

What advantage was it for the Communists to kill 30 million of their own citizens? What advantage was it for Mao to destroy Chinese agriculture? What advantage was it for the Khmer Rouge to kill the most intelligent and productive members of its population?

All rhetorical questions, of course. Evil ideologues take sadistic sexual pleasure in imposing pointedly unnatural "norms" and structures for their own sake -- never seek to understand evil ideology by asking why? only seek to expose and destroy it.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
05-16-2015 12:44 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 12:44 PM)Moto Wrote:  What can us pee-ons do about it?

Perhaps there is a petition already out there, or we can start one.

Which representatives can we contact to halt this monstrosity?

The ALI (American Law Institute) is an unelected body, and its proposals, while highly influential in shaping laws over time, have no legally binding status. So I don't believe that any elected representatives can be contacted on this matter at this time.

I believe that the most valuable thing that can be done right now is to expose these proposals as widely as possible, and explain their content and consequences to the public at large. There is little we can do to influence what the ALI does, but it is of crucial importance that these proposals not be allowed to slowly gain in influence and make their way to becoming actual laws. Their uniquely evil and unprecedented nature must be made known time and again.

I also believe that it is important to publicize by name the legal scholars who wrote these proposals, and anyone in the ALI who votes in favor of them. These people are attempting to fundamentally change the way we live our day to day lives and turn our lives into a living nightmare. The public should know who they are.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2015 01:03 PM by The Lizard of Oz.)
05-16-2015 12:56 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 12:44 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  
(05-16-2015 12:36 PM)kbell Wrote:  Why though? This will bite everybody? What advantage is there for the elite if nobody wants to get into relationships?

What advantage was it for the Communists to kill 30 million of their own citizens? What advantage was it for Mao to destroy Chinese agriculture? What advantage was it for the Khmer Rouge to kill the most intelligent and productive members of its population?

All rhetorical questions, of course. Evil ideologues take sadistic sexual pleasure in imposing pointedly unnatural "norms" and structures for their own sake -- never seek to understand evil ideology by asking why? only seek to expose and destroy it.

Very, very well said.
05-16-2015 01:03 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 12:56 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  I also believe that it is important to publicize by name the legal scholars who wrote these proposals, and anyone in the ALI who votes in favor of them. These people are attempting to fundamentally change the way we live our day to day lives and turn our lives into a living nightmare. The public should know who they are.
Name and shame.

ROK would be a start (similar to "Is X guilty of (journalistic fraud, misandry, etc)?", but the site is highly politicized...

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05-16-2015 01:14 PM
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Libertas Offline
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 10:32 AM)eljeffster Wrote:  make it easier to accuse men of sexual assault and rape and put the burden on men to prove consent.

Which is clearly unconstitutional and would never hold under any scrutiny.

Delusional feminist harpies are not going to overturn the Bill of Rights and over two centuries of legal precedent that easily.

Now if you want to say they'll criminalize normal behavior, that's something else.

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05-16-2015 01:41 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
I believe the US has copied a new law here in the UK. Sounds very familiar. The burden of proof on the man was definitely floated around this new law and has serious implications for videoing encounters. You're screwed either way.
05-16-2015 01:43 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 12:19 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  
(05-16-2015 12:03 PM)Grange Wrote:  There is one encouraging takeaway: the proposals are very controversial within the ALI. The legal profession is overwhelmingly liberal politically but conservative as regards the law, that is they are hesitant to make sweeping changes to the law. This might end up being a good thing, with the radicals overextending themselves and the rest of the profession swatting them down.

A separate but related point is that laws can be written to say whatever you want, but "the law" must be interpreted. I think it's impossible that if legislation like this passed (itself unlikely) the American judicial system would let it stand.

Grange, I would assume nothing. We have already seen that laws like Yes Means Yes, which are a trial run for these even more sweeping and unprecedented proposals, were passed with huge majorities. There is absolutely no telling just how far this will go, and I would not take comfort in any assumptions about what the American judicial system will or will not bear. The facts on the ground are shifting, and the people who hold sway in these professions now belong to generations that are willing to contemplate some real changes; and they are feeling their powers now like never before.

I view this initiative, and what it implies, as an unprecedented threat to men in the US and elsewhere in the West, the most serious threat we have encountered. It is not easy to come to terms at once with the severity of the threat, but I believe that it will become increasingly clear over time.

I agree there's a lot of potential downside. No question about it. I simply don't think it's likely to get that bad. To take Yes Means Yes, that's brand new in legal terms. It will take years before the dust settles, and because it's such a radical break with the past I'm estimating there's almost zero chance it skates through as is. Legal scholars recognize the stability of the law as one of its biggest pluses. Even the most hardcore activists in the legal profession don't want to change something so central to human life so quickly.

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05-16-2015 01:46 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 01:41 PM)Libertas Wrote:  
(05-16-2015 10:32 AM)eljeffster Wrote:  make it easier to accuse men of sexual assault and rape and put the burden on men to prove consent.

Which is clearly unconstitutional and would never hold under any scrutiny.

Delusional feminist harpies are not going to overturn the Bill of Rights and over two centuries of legal precedent that easily.

Now if you want to say they'll criminalize normal behavior, that's something else.

The idea of the proposals is essentially "affirmative" or "positive" consent -- that is, if a man (or anyone, but they obviously have men in mind) has not obtained explicit and affirmative consent to engage in any kind of sexual conduct (including light touching, kissing, etc) -- then he has committed a sex offense. This goes beyond even "Yes Means Yes" laws and seeks to criminalize the least sexually charged interaction that has not been explicitly consented to.

They will seek to evade the Constitutional problems by making positive consent part of the law rather than part of the procedure. That is, the laws are not formulated in such a way that they, formally speaking, remove the presumption of innocence; it is still up to the prosecution to prove guilt. But it is very easy to prove "guilt" in these cases; as soon as the defendant admits that he did not obtain affirmative consent, he is guilty. Some of these interactions can take place in public, there may be witnesses who testify that the "predator" held the girl by the hand without first obtaining explicit consent. The ease of the prosecutor's task is eloquently detailed in the must-read memorandum. In other words, the content of the proposals is not so much the shifting of the burden of proof as it is criminalization of everyday behaviors.

Finally, the Constitutional validity of any given law is ultimately up to the Supreme Court. I would say that the odds of any of the current female Supreme Court justices voting to strike down such a law are zero, and I believe there are currently at least 4 justices who would not strike it down. Thus we are at best one Supreme Court appointment away from these laws having likely majority support in the Court should they ever become enacted.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2015 02:26 PM by The Lizard of Oz.)
05-16-2015 02:02 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 01:46 PM)Grange Wrote:  Even the most hardcore activists in the legal profession don't want to change something so central to human life so quickly.

But they do want to change it; that is exactly what these proposals amount to, radically changing and criminalizing basic everyday aspects of human life.

These are the two people most responsible for writing and formulating these draft proposals. They are not some marginal rabid "hardcore activists"; they are both respected professors in the NYU School of Law. They were tasked by the ALI and its director to formulate these proposals, with the help of a large advisory committee.

Stephen Schulhofer

[Image: 760329350.jpg]

Erin Murphy

[Image: 150809610.jpg]

Whether or not these proposals will gain a majority in the ALI remains to be seen; but it is far from impossible. We will find out soon.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
05-16-2015 02:16 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
Don't fight it with logic. It's not worth the energy. Vote with your cock. Fuck foreign pussy exclusively. Move out of the country if you have to. Let these bitter old hags have their way. They'll die like they've lived ...bitter and alone. While you are enjoying the sweet fruits of poosy paradise. Hump

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05-16-2015 02:34 PM
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RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
Parlay, I hear you, but not every American man is going to move out of the country. Even if you do it and I do it (and so far we're both here, I think) what about our friends, brothers, nephews, just some random dude on the street? Also, what happens in the US first often spreads to other destinations; we are the leaders, for better or worse. If these laws are ever adopted here, they will become a model for others to emulate, and all of a sudden no poosy paradise may be safe.

No; I don't want my country to fall prey to such grotesquely evil laws. It's not right, nor is it inevitable. I feel it is worth every bit of effort to fight it with logic, emotion, rhetoric, and anything else we have. And if these proposals ever get close to becoming actual laws, it will be the duty of every self-respecting man to fight them one way or another.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
05-16-2015 02:47 PM
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Post: #22
RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 02:47 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Parlay, I hear you, but not every American man is going to move out of the country. Even if you do it and I do it (and so far we're both here, I think) what about our friends, brothers, nephews, just some random dude on the street? Also, what happens in the US first often spreads to other destinations; we are the leaders, for better or worse. If these laws are ever adopted here, they will become a model for others to emulate, and all of a sudden no poosy paradise may be safe.

No; I don't want my country to fall prey to such grotesquely evil laws. It's not right, nor is it inevitable. I feel it is worth every bit of effort to fight it with logic, emotion, rhetoric, and anything else we have. And if these proposals ever get close to becoming actual laws, it will be the duty of every self-respecting man to fight them one way or another.

That's some inspiring, Braveheart stuff. +1
05-16-2015 03:00 PM
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eljeffster Offline
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Post: #23
RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 01:41 PM)Libertas Wrote:  
(05-16-2015 10:32 AM)eljeffster Wrote:  make it easier to accuse men of sexual assault and rape and put the burden on men to prove consent.

Which is clearly unconstitutional and would never hold under any scrutiny.

Delusional feminist harpies are not going to overturn the Bill of Rights and over two centuries of legal precedent that easily.

Now if you want to say they'll criminalize normal behavior, that's something else.

Right, constitutionally the burden is upon the state to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. But consider this, a guy is out with his girl in public and puts his arm around her waste and then slides it down to her ass. These facts are not in dispute. She didn't say stop or no. No sexual assault right? In general terms the state would have to prove that she through words or actions said no and he overcame her resistance. I know varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but something along those lines.

The direction they want to go with the Model Penal Code is that in the future the man would have to get the woman's consent before touching her buttock. The state just has to say, he didn't get her consent. Now, whether express or not, the man is caught needing to show that she said yes and therefore he has an implied burden to do so.
05-16-2015 03:26 PM
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AnonymousBosch Away
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Post: #24
RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 12:36 PM)kbell Wrote:  Why though? This will bite everybody? What advantage is there for the elite if nobody wants to get into relationships?

This is standard issue Authoritarian Leftist tactics: destroy the love between a man and a women, destroy the love between parent and child. There is no love but that for the state.
05-16-2015 03:28 PM
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Parlay44 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: The Empire Strikes Back: Proposed Model Penal Code Revisions to Punish Men
(05-16-2015 03:28 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  
(05-16-2015 12:36 PM)kbell Wrote:  Why though? This will bite everybody? What advantage is there for the elite if nobody wants to get into relationships?

This is standard issue Authoritarian Leftist tactics: destroy the love between a man and a women, destroy the love between parent and child. There is no love but that for the state.

Fuck the state. Fuck the Po-lice too. I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want in this life.

Team Nachos
05-16-2015 03:30 PM
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