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MGTOW (Sandman) On Roosh and Neo Masculinity
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It_is_my_time Online
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Post: #26
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 05:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
Quote:It appears MGTOW has been hijacked

And this is why your ideology should not be controlled or steered by the faceless mob. The same thing is happening to the red pill.

Quintus and I will enforce neomasculine principles, and swiftly attack those who attempt to hijack it.

Awesome!

We are close to the same age. I bet 17 years ago, when you were in college, you had no idea you would end up with such a great life, so many men looking up to you, and potentially becoming the face of the saving of the western hemisphere.

You really do a lot of good for millions of men, many who so far are unaware, but will soon find out. And millions of more men yet to be saved from this crap system.
05-21-2015 05:06 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
never heard of this guy until this thread

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05-21-2015 05:46 PM
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Comte De St. Germain Away
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Post: #28
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
MGTOW reeks of mass genetic suicide. If anything it's nature taking its course and taking those unable to compete out of the gene pool. Better that they are doing it happily unlike the frustrated average guy today forever disillusioned.

"Until the day when God shall deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is summed up in these two words,— 'Wait and hope'."- Alexander Dumas, "The Count of Monte Cristo"

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05-21-2015 05:49 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
I'm 2 minutes in to the video. It's pure bullshit and has as much value as a feminist saying Roosh is a misogynist.

At around 5:50 he claims that many mgtow guys ask him how to get the perfect woman. That right there is the schism between us and them.

Perfect woman? That's a synonym for soul mate. Anyone who understands basic concepts of neomasculinity will know there is no soul mate or perfect woman. They obviously haven't read The Rational Male.

@6:20 "many of us are trying to figure out female nature". Another glaring difference between us and them.

@7:05 he makes some comments about Roosh's Neomasculinity piece, but it's obvious he hasn't read any of it. You can't criticise something you haven't experienced or not taken part in.




Conclusion: he thinks MGTOW is a bigger movement than other areas of the so called manosphere.

He's jealous of Roosh's ideas being pushed on a big platform(Prison Planet/Infowars).

He can't be bothered to read any of Roosh's writings.

He thinks a ten minute video of fallacies will make him top dog, it's purely his ego motivating him, whereas with the likes of Roosh, Quintus and many others here, it isn't ego motivating them, but the honourable desire to help one's fellow man.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 06:29 PM by Lizard King.)
05-21-2015 05:50 PM
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Suits Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 05:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
Quote:It appears MGTOW has been hijacked

And this is why your ideology should not be controlled or steered by the faceless mob. The same thing is happening to the red pill.

Quintus and I will enforce neomasculine principles, and swiftly attack those who attempt to hijack it.

I think that the fact that you've taken the time to write out a very extensive description of what neomasculinity is will make it difficult to hijack.

Of course, you'll probably get someone attempting to re-invent it under a label of neomasculinity 2.0 somewhere down the road, but even then it'll be clear that the new "re-incarnation" is a different thing altogether and deserves it's own, separate label.

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05-21-2015 08:56 PM
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ManVsMachine Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were really MGTOW wouldn't you have "Gone your OWN way" to so to speak? I noticed a few years back they were taking shots at MRAs, and now this.



I'm not too sure on this one, perhaps I'm ignorant.
05-21-2015 09:29 PM
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Basil Ransom Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
It's ironic how a man who denies himself one of life's greatest pleasure - sex - has the voice of a robot. He sounds like a speech to text program, with a slight whiff of gay sing-song.
05-21-2015 10:07 PM
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WanderingSoul Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 11:49 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  This sucks. The purpose of the creation of the acronym "M.G.T.O.W." signified men swallowing the red pill and then doing what was right for them. Hence THEIR OWN WAY. I like Sandman and his videos, but he is wrong here, very wrong.

MRA, NeoMasculinity, whatever member you are, it should all fit under MGTOW. We have our own way of responding to the red pill and the realization of the fematrix. What makes the fematirx so powerful is that women can group together and hold strong. Men are to individual for this, and MGTOW was created to incorporate all groups and prevent infighting.

You should be able to do whatever you want, as long as you don't buy into the fematrix, and be right with MGTOW. Whether you date or not, as long as you are aware of the red pill truths and stand for removal of the fematrix.

It seems the red pill is picking up steam. The last thing we want is infighting. Sandman is simply wrong.

You keep trying to lump everyone under the MGTOW banner, but I don't see us as anything close to MGTOW. Personally, I think anyone identifying as MGTOW is a socially awkward, low testosterone male who can't get laid, so they identify with MGTOW. Otherwise, why the fuck you would pass up attractive pussy? I 100% do not identify with MGTOW in any way, shape, or form.

MGTWO's are about as masculine as Bronies in my mind.

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05-21-2015 10:09 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
What struck me about MGTOW, this being before I found Returnofkings, is that they hated being gynocentric or pussy-pedestalizing and yet every video of theirs was about women. Even the ones not necessarily about women were in fact about women.

Some other things in addition to that turned me off. Like receiving no response when asking for a more concrete description of their solutions rather than them bashing the solutions offered by others. But that was more personal and I could look past it.

Raging Golden Eagle is cool though.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 10:36 PM by Eskhander.)
05-21-2015 10:26 PM
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Quintus Curtius Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Neomasculinity will become an actual force for change (on both an individual and societal level) because of its inherent truth, dynamism, organization, and the discipline of its members.

These other groups may have meant well, but they have proven to be unable to address the problems facing young men today, and incapable of resisting the attacks of the enemy. They will remain debating societies of varying degrees of relevance.

Neomasculinity has electrified this part of the internet. It has something real to offer. These are the sources of its strengths:

1. For the first time, we have a coherent, detailed, and intellectually sound statement of principles:

http://www.rooshv.com/what-is-neomasculinity

Unlike the other movements, which take on and discard principles like ship's ballast whenever they find it expedient, our movement is based on actual historical experience. The principles are laid out here for all to see. There is no confusion.

Our principles will attract men who are capable, eager, and zealous, because they are not easy to attain. We will draw in men who are looking for ways to challenge themselves, and take control over their environment.

Sluggards, oafs, and quitters will stay away. They will know that this is not the place for them.

2. We have captured the minds of the young. The ossified brains which are unable to conceive of anything different from the present order of things will not want to be one of us. As this is good.

3. Charismatic leadership operating at the top (Roosh) provides the necessary direction, discipline, and inspiration that is lacking in the other groups. There is a reach and depth to this organization that goes far beyond what most people might imagine.

4. We are imbued with zeal in a way that the others are not. The other groups have proven themselves to be little more than debating societies. They have nothing to offer except negativity in one form or another. They are unable to meet the challenges of the current situation for men today.

Only one man can summon an army, and that man is Roosh. They know this, and they are afraid.

5. It offers action and resistance. For the first time in decades, men are sensing that someone is actually fighting back--and winning--against the rigged game that exists for men in the Anglosphere. The other groups are unable to mount effective challenges. But we can, and are doing it.

It will be a long road, and it will take time for our message to get out. But over time, the neomasculinity ideal is going to be able to influence the social landscape in ways that you won't be able to imagine.

And it is a personal philosophy, as well as a collective one. It will be able to influence the lives of guys who make a sincere effort to work towards its goals.

.

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(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 11:02 PM by Quintus Curtius.)
05-21-2015 11:00 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 11:00 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  It will be a long road, and it will take time for our message to get out. But over time, the neomasculinity ideal is going to be able to influence the social landscape in ways that you won't be able to imagine.

And it is a personal philosophy, as well as a collective one. It will be able to influence the lives of guys who make a sincere effort to work towards its goals.

I hope you're going to write about this in your next ROK article.
05-21-2015 11:32 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 11:00 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  4. We are imbued with zeal in a way that the others are not. The other groups have proven themselves to be little more than debating societies. They have nothing to offer except negativity in one form or another. They are unable to meet the challenges of the current situation for men today.

Only one man can summon an army, and that man is Roosh. They know this, and they are afraid.

[Image: 1slWUg.gif]

(05-21-2015 11:00 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  5. It offers action and resistance. For the first time in decades, men are sensing that someone is actually fighting back--and winning--against the rigged game that exists for men in the Anglosphere. The other groups are unable to mount effective challenges. But we can, and are doing it.

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05-22-2015 12:50 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Neomasculinity is hands down the best choice. It gives us roots to our past, it gives us strength for the present, and a strong plan for the future.

Honor, courage, strength, determination, stoicism, self reliance, knowledge, strong work ethic, good morals, and strong will power is what makes us great. Anything less is what the quitters, low lifes, and general populous wants. To be just like them because they can't handle the greatness we plan and have harnessed.

Let the haters hate. It's telling you that something right is being done.

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05-22-2015 01:15 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 10:26 PM)Eskhander Wrote:  What struck me about MGTOW, this being before I found Returnofkings, is that they hated being gynocentric or pussy-pedestalizing and yet every video of theirs was about women. Even the ones not necessarily about women were in fact about women.

Some other things in addition to that turned me off. Like receiving no response when asking for a more concrete description of their solutions rather than them bashing the solutions offered by others. But that was more personal and I could look past it.

Raging Golden Eagle is cool though.

Many of them do seem to be moving more towards exploring the male mind and big picture thoughts though like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Sirias74/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbbeOA5...Z0w/videos
05-22-2015 04:28 AM
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Hyperion Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
I like Roosh and Sandman. I think both offer great material to contemplate.
05-22-2015 05:07 AM
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Libertas Offline
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RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Goddamn, the first thing I noticed about this video is this guy's voice is incredibly annoying and sounds like it lacks testosterone. Immediately my trust in him as a good source for men is damaged.

2:00 "But not do them because you want to attract a woman."

Annoying feminine uptalk. Also straw mans the idea because attracting women is only incidental to the equation. It's about being what you were born to be. In my own case coming here provided me with an energy and vigor I'd never experienced before and allowed me to ascend to heights I never thought I could reach. To say that "it's an attempt to get men back to the plantation" is ridiculous since:

A) We are told that this is evil constantly by the elite who don't want us to act this way.
B) This is about maximum self-fulfillment. It casts off chains. It doesn't put them on.

2:40 suggests a dangerous fatalism. "We're stuck with the terminology." No we aren't. We will move forward with our actions and their ideological underpinnings. We do not act based on labels.

Then he goes on to say that MGTOWs have relationships, etc. Then really what's the unique selling proposition of the MGTOW lifestyle and ideological underpinnings? Then he mentions guys asking him "how to find the perfect woman?" The problems of this have already been spelled out by others above. Also, this is solely based on this guy's voice, admittedly, but I find it humorous that people would ask this guy for dating advice.

7:10: Neomasculinity and game are "diametrically opposed?"

Part of being a masculine man is knowing the true nature of women and manipulating it to your advantage so that you have choice in relationships. That is game in a nutshell, and that is what will allow the production of the next generation. Our ideas will win out because at least some of us will reproduce. I doubt most MGTOWs, at least how he describes it, will. That is the ultimate success or failure.

Then he goes into a conspiracy theory about the growth of MGTOW "threatening" ROK, etc. and are "jealous" of MGTOW. This reveals his effeminate nature. Masculine men don't think that way. They know that what they're doing is right and are concerned with, as Marcus Aurelius speaks of in the Meditations their own thoughts first and foremost when regarding the right way to live, not the thoughts of others. None of us probably even noticed or cared that "MGTOW" is "trending." Yet this is somehow "gynocentric."

And to conclude, he worries about labels. We are not worried with labels. Our concerns are actions and results. His entire video, and especially that paragraph above, shows that he is concerned with labels. A perfect descriptor for many men that subscribe to what can be labeled as MGTOW.

10:38: Alex Jones is pushing Roosh V's philosophy because Alex Jones sees that our time is coming. He sees us as a rising force that is doing what he in many respects failed to do - successfully challenge the degenerate, authoritarian, PC culture. He of course wants to see us succeed because he identifies with us in some respects. I have my own concerns with Alex Jones associating himself with us, but it's free publicity at this point.

If he doesn't see this happening with "Neomasculinity" it's again because he is thinking in terms of labels. "Neomasculinity" is just a useful simplifier for the things we've already been doing, and have been doing for years. Again, we are not concerned with labels, but with soundness of mind, actions, and results. This is why we are going to continue to grow in the way that we want to - attracting guys that want to go out and kick ass, not the low-hanging fruit that guys like "Sandman" will attract.

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05-22-2015 08:06 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
I hope he reads your post Libertas.
05-22-2015 09:00 AM
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Libertas Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
I might do a video response later.

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05-22-2015 09:09 AM
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Lizard King Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Will you post the link in this thread for our benefit please?
05-22-2015 09:10 AM
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Libertas Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Wouldn't have entertained the possibility if I wouldn't.

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05-22-2015 09:30 AM
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Basil Ransom Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Great post Quintus. It's incredible how a certain man putting a word to an idea can galvanize people.

One thing I've thought has long been needed is a "New Old Boys Network," something for men of similar minds to help each other out for mutual benefit, and Roosh is giving this another go with his proposal for local "tribes." Helping out your fellow forum man need not be charitable - it could be a strictly selfish endeavor, in that it mostly happens when both parties mutually benefit - because there are distinct advantages to having masculine colleagues around.

One problem is scaling it - beyond the forum, it would be hard to decide who actually agrees, and who is either a mere profiteer or worse a turncoat - given the risk of loss of fortune if people here were outed.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2015 09:41 AM by Basil Ransom.)
05-22-2015 09:36 AM
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Post: #47
RE: MGTOW (Sandman) On Roosh and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 01:01 PM)Dark Knowledge Wrote:  I used to binge watch all those MGTOW content producers on youtube, but at some point I had to cut all of that out. It's just way too fucking depressing. I do agree that men have to be aware of female nature but to live a life without female contact is one not worth living. Might as well put a gun in your mouth and call it a life

A mgtow would argue that's the heart of the problem right there. I mean when is the last time you've heard a woman say she'd commit suicide if there were no men? You have monks and clergymen who have sworn off women and aren't about to kill themselves over it.

I'm no expert on the mgtow movement, but from what I've seen of it, they aren't advocating that men never touch a woman again. They believe in not making women the centerpiece of your existence. Not seeking sex for the purpose of validation. Especially from women that are largely worthless anyway. PUAs on the other hand make pussy the main if not sole purpose of their existence. To the point that they can't be bothered with any activity that doesn't have sex as an endgame. If you're ever around hardcore PUAs they simply cannot have a conversation about anything not sexual related.

Obviously these are two extreme viewpoints and there's a lot of grey area in between.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2015 12:42 PM by speakeasy.)
05-22-2015 12:23 PM
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Post: #48
RE: MGTOW (Sandman) On Roosh and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 11:25 AM)Lizard King Wrote:  People who say they don't need game have inflated egos. They can't drop their ego and accept that someone else might have more knowledge than them.

Trigger Warning: faggoty game terminology in this post.

I was chatting with a friend who's a born natural, and somehow our conversation transitioned from discussing fuck stories to discussing game. I described what a 'neg' was to him (teasing, backhanded compliment) and he said, "Oh, so that's what it is? I do that all the time!"

Any man who's successful with women and doesn't have some sort of chip on their shoulder (men who are 45+, and haven't had to date today's women, might start off with a bias against the 'manipulations' of game, for instance) will instantly recognize it for what it is, and laugh at the terminology used to describe what they've been doing all this time anyway.

Game recognize game.

The fact that this weasel is rejecting it all speaks volumes. He's the sort of guy who (intelligently, luckily) chose a lifestyle where he's surrounded by women on a regular basis, and he has a bit of status. He doesn't have to cold-approach, and women already know who he is before they meets him: that's half the battle. I don't doubt he regularly dates, and even sometimes sleeps with women, but he has no ability to actually command their attraction.

Getting laid can be boiled down to four strategic points:
1. Be where the women are.
2. Be compelling in some manner (financially successful, famous, peacocking).
3. Tell the woman "It's okay, baby, I won't judge you!"
4. Don't be needy or thirsty.

Game is just an extreme elaboration on points 3 and 4; it's primarily a set of rules and routines to force a thirsty guy to improve themselves and stop being thirsty, to be the sort of guy that can keep a girl once he has her. When you 'Master' Game you realize that there are no rules, and you start learning from the ground-up again (like a Karateka whose black-belt has faded to white again).

Weasel has the first two point nailed - probably by accident - but he has no idea what the latter two points are. He doesn't want to believe that there are two more points. He likes his gilded cage.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2015 01:43 PM by Aurini.)
05-22-2015 01:42 PM
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Post: #49
RE: MGTOW (Sandman) On Roosh and Neo Masculinity
MGTOW has only one problem. It's too easy for men on the lower end of the SMV curve to use it as a rationalization for quitting and staying in their bubble of complacency.

In a way, it mirrors feminism because its ideals are not practiced by its adherents. Feminism is mostly just a power grab. The shit test men failed. MGTOW just has a certain reek people don't trust like feminism because of the people who call themselves MGTOWS and feminists. The difference being that I agree with MGTOW ideals and not feminist.
05-22-2015 02:12 PM
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RE: MGTOW (Sandman) On Roosh and Neo Masculinity
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05-22-2015 03:06 PM
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