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MGTOW (Sandman) On Roosh and Neo Masculinity
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vinman Offline
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Post: #1
MGTOW (Sandman) On Roosh and Neo Masculinity
Is he trying to say that there's a conspiracy between Roosh, and Paul Joseph WatsonTinfoilhat





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9K9-Yuek4E

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(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 10:39 AM by vinman.)
05-21-2015 10:31 AM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
TLDR: "It's not fair that MGTOW is not receiving exposure"

To say that this is MGTOW 1.0 is a flat out lie. Is some drama happening in MGTOW at the moment? Such a distortion can only come from internal crisis.

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05-21-2015 10:54 AM
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Captainstabbin Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
Four things:

I'm really not familiar enough with either MGTOW or Neo masculinity to comment about his central complaint.

I don't like Alex - his show or website. He had some early contributions to the conspiracy theory game by infiltrating Bohemian Grove but, beyond that, there have been too many wild accusations and provably false conspiracy theories to count.

Sandman has a very robotic voice, doesn't he? What's going on there?

And I don't believe the "donation" angle for a second.
05-21-2015 10:57 AM
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Post: #4
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
I find it difficult to trust a man who decides to completely forgo sex.

To me it isn't natural. western women aren't very natural either, but for now, I will make do with them for sex.
05-21-2015 11:01 AM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
"Alex Jones can't be MGTOW because he's married with children.... [He] can't stop being gynocentric."

A movement that excludes men who want relationships, families and children has no future.

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05-21-2015 11:11 AM
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Quintus Curtius Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
This is a rather puzzling video.

Most of these MGTOWs aren't really bad guys.

But they just don't understand that some of us are not temperamentally suited for the MGTOW "mindset." Regardless of what he says, there is a cloud that hangs over the whole MGTOW thing. It reeks of despair, resignation, and defeat. Perceptions matter.

Some guys are just not temperamentally suited for this type of thinking. Some of have a need to confront and take a combative stance against what we see around us. This person in the video doesn't sound like an idealist or a visionary. He sounds like a boilerplate thinker, a person trapped by his own boilerplate thinking. He lacks imagination, idealism, and intensity. These are the types of qualities needed to achieve great things. They lack the expansive imagination that is needed to conceive of, and implement, a new philosophy.

We are reaching for the stars, and they are reaching for their napkins.

His other complaint is also irrelevant. "There is no neomasculinity movement."

I say, bullshit. There is one if we create it. And the first step is to lay out principles in a coherent form. And all signs are that this is working. And it will continue to work.

If we say it exists, then it exists. The world is our idea.

And what we have said has proven to be correct. The doubters and naysayers--some of which inhabit this forum--have been proven wrong. There were some doubting and negative comments about the use of the term "neomasculinity" and the influence of the manosphere. And almost on cue, things took off.

The only thing in this world that can accomplish great things is a faith born of visionary certitude, implemented with fanatical energy. This is the type of faith that can move mountains. He who is not passionate himself will never be able to rouse passion in others.

You just wait. You haven't seen anything yet.

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(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 11:15 AM by Quintus Curtius.)
05-21-2015 11:12 AM
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TravelerKai Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
Roosh is using neomasculinity as an attempt to get men back to the plantation? Or a means to just attract women? On the one hand men should understand the true nature of women, but then he also endorses the idea that both genders should just got back into traditional relationships? He thinks it is too late to rename the MGTOW movement into neomasculinity instead of the red pill? I gotta stop right there at 2:50 in.

I will address these few points and others can roast the rest.

1. He really does not know what the plantation really is. Relationships are not supposed to be slavery. The real plantation is the culumlative effect of the system around you that forces you to conform your lifestyle into a predetermined pattern, that does not truly serve your interests in the end. There is a reason why US passports are being turned in at record numbers and people are trying to get location independent. Back in the 40,50s,60s, of America men could very commonly find that piece of the pie dream for the most part, but now it is getting tremendously harder to get and maintain it. Pair it with broken women and it is truly a deal breaker. He sounds like a typical MGTOW. Women do not account for everything. We here take pride in lifestyle, game, women, fitness, and knowledge. We still want it all. Not just a lifestyle of avoidance.

2. Typical MGTOW thinking. Women's nature does not equate to raging, demonic, lying, slutty, pieces of shit undeserving of love, attention, marriage, commitment, etc. Understanding their nature means that we can either get the best out of them or the worst. The choice is ours. Men are in control, not the woman. We have game, we set the tone and the pace. Not them. If they refuse to play the game by our internal guidelines, we take our balls home and find another that will follow along. It's not rocket science, but alot MGTOW thinking is a great deal of AWALT stuff. Plenty guys here take advantage of a woman's nature all day long. Anything from guys getting ONS to simple things like myself getting a king's banquet for dinner outta of my wife. With no game you cannot take advantage of their nature, good or bad, large or small. When both genders are together like nature intended, children grow up in stable homes, crime is less, life expectancy is better, people's health is better. Family and roles make life better overall. If most atheist, agnostic, and religious people alike can see this, why is this concept so difficult for MGTOWs to accept? Because they are still in that anger and detachment phase and funk.

3. Roosh correct me if I am wrong, but I did not get the impression that you:

A) Wanted anything to do with MGTOW in the first place.
B) Wanted to rename their movement and ideology
C) Wanted to continue to be lockstep with the other segments of the Manosphere

If they want to come over to our side of thinking, that is a good thing, but they gotta leave the teenage angst-like baggage at the door. If they are upset with Roosh taking a new direction, they should have seen this coming. There have been threads on here going back years on what else we could do to step up and take leadership of the Manosphere away from the White Nationalists, the MRAs, the MGTOWs, etc. because they are not good at leading and establishing constructive discourse to spark debate amongst the vast sea of blue pilled people. I

If Roosh's recent move towards a new label is getting this kind of response, I would say the leadership Roosh, and QC too are establishing is quite solid.

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05-21-2015 11:16 AM
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Lizard King Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
From the comments:
Quote:My rebuttal to the lazy argument: Master's degree, high IQ, several feature length screenplays under my belt (none sold... yet), several feature length screenplays in the pipeline, and lots of women show me interest on a regular basis. I haven't played videogames since 2002. I'm fit and attractive and I've never needed game.

Baller

People who say they have a high IQ, 99.9% of the time they're bullshitting.

People who say they don't need game have inflated egos. They can't drop their ego and accept that someone else might have more knowledge than them.

MGTOW will be dead within 10 years.
05-21-2015 11:25 AM
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Post: #9
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
Whenever I read 'Men going their own way' I think which way? Towards what? It's a more romantic term for what is basically 'you guys suck! I'm taking my ball home.'
05-21-2015 11:27 AM
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The Beast1 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
(05-21-2015 10:54 AM)Roosh Wrote:  TLDR: "It's not fair that MGTOW is not receiving exposure"

To say that this is MGTOW 1.0 is a flat out lie. Is some drama happening in MGTOW at the moment? Such a distortion can only come from internal crisis.

MGTOWs are the human equivalent of ostriches sticking their heads into the sand. It's no wonder they're having problem.

I like the MGTOW attitude, but that is where my agreement ends. They've all agreed that something is wrong, but instead of taking hold of their lives they check out.

Good article by the way. I like the name Neomasculinity far more than "Red pill", "MGTOW'", etc. Terms like this are what make people take us seriously and begin to stick in the minds of people.
05-21-2015 11:34 AM
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Post: #11
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinaty
Matt Forney has some great thoughts on the matter which echoes a lot of what's being said here.
05-21-2015 11:37 AM
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RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
This sucks. The purpose of the creation of the acronym "M.G.T.O.W." signified men swallowing the red pill and then doing what was right for them. Hence THEIR OWN WAY. I like Sandman and his videos, but he is wrong here, very wrong.

MRA, NeoMasculinity, whatever member you are, it should all fit under MGTOW. We have our own way of responding to the red pill and the realization of the fematrix. What makes the fematirx so powerful is that women can group together and hold strong. Men are to individual for this, and MGTOW was created to incorporate all groups and prevent infighting.

You should be able to do whatever you want, as long as you don't buy into the fematrix, and be right with MGTOW. Whether you date or not, as long as you are aware of the red pill truths and stand for removal of the fematrix.

It seems the red pill is picking up steam. The last thing we want is infighting. Sandman is simply wrong.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2015 11:50 AM by It_is_my_time.)
05-21-2015 11:49 AM
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SunW Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Just curious, what were men doing before MGTOW ("going their own way")?

I don't have a dog in this fight, but when I hear the phrase "men going their own way" it makes me wonder what men have been doing before now. Yes, some men married, bought homes, and settled down because they were told to, but there have been many other generations of men who followed their own plans that they developed themselves.

I think it's normal to
  • create a plan
  • follow it with action
Is that MGTOW? And if that is, then what were the men before MGTOW existed who did that?
05-21-2015 11:54 AM
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It_is_my_time Offline
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RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 11:54 AM)SunW Wrote:  Just curious, what were men doing before MGTOW ("going their own way")?

I don't have a dog in this fight, but when I hear the phrase "men going their own way" it makes me wonder what men have been doing before now. Yes, some men married, bought homes, and settled down because they were told to, but there have been many other generations of men who followed their own plans that they developed themselves.

I think it's normal to
  • create a plan
  • follow it with action
Is that MGTOW? And if that is, then what were the men before MGTOW existed who did that?

They would have been MTGOW, but the name didn't exist for them. So if they were lumped in with a group, it would have been the MRA's back in those days.
05-21-2015 11:58 AM
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Captainstabbin Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 11:49 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  This sucks. The purpose of the creation of the acronym "M.G.T.O.W." signified men swallowing the red pill and then doing what was right for them. Hence THEIR OWN WAY.

I agree. I don't see why "their own way" has to be equated with virgins who are societal dropouts.

(05-21-2015 11:49 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  MRA, NeoMasculinity, whatever member you are, it should all fit under MGTOW. We have our own way of responding to the red pill and the realization of the fematrix. What makes the fematirx so powerful is that women can group together and hold strong. Men are to individual for this, and MGTOW was created to incorporate all groups and prevent infighting.

Agreed (again), nothing worse than infighting when everyone shares the same basic idea.

This sounds as bad as the SJWs fighting with each other. What's next, are we going to start chasing each other off Twitter?
05-21-2015 12:05 PM
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It_is_my_time Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 12:05 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  
(05-21-2015 11:49 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  This sucks. The purpose of the creation of the acronym "M.G.T.O.W." signified men swallowing the red pill and then doing what was right for them. Hence THEIR OWN WAY.

I agree. I don't see why "their own way" has to be equated with virgins who are societal dropouts.

(05-21-2015 11:49 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  MRA, NeoMasculinity, whatever member you are, it should all fit under MGTOW. We have our own way of responding to the red pill and the realization of the fematrix. What makes the fematirx so powerful is that women can group together and hold strong. Men are to individual for this, and MGTOW was created to incorporate all groups and prevent infighting.

Agreed (again), nothing worse than infighting when everyone shares the same basic idea.

This sounds as bad as the SJWs fighting with each other. What's next, are we going to start chasing each other off Twitter?

I'm one of those societal drop outs that aligns with Sandman's philosophies. I don't have the time, energy or desire to deal with women in my life right now, the last 15 years, or any time in the forseeable future. But I have not given up either, with hopes to be wealthy and then avoid most of the headaches.

But that is my choice. And I am here to tell Sandman he is very wrong. If these guys learn game they are not going back to the plantation. They are enjoying their life how they see fit on their own terms. We all have different goals/plans/interests.

The main thing is they swallow the red pill and pass the wisdom on to more men so we can destroy this fematrix before it destroys our society. That is all that matters in the end.
05-21-2015 12:09 PM
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PainPositive Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Everyone has some level of attn whore in them. These guys, rather than embracing something that helps men are upset they don't get credit for it. Just my opinion but that's what I'm seeing here.
05-21-2015 12:13 PM
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Post: #18
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
No we are not MGTOW, we are MGTBW. Men going the best way.
05-21-2015 12:14 PM
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RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 11:12 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  This is a rather puzzling video.

Most of these MGTOWs aren't really bad guys.

But they just don't understand that some of us are not temperamentally suited for the MGTOW "mindset." Regardless of what he says, there is a cloud that hangs over the whole MGTOW thing. It reeks of despair, resignation, and defeat. Perceptions matter.
.
I can't disagree but when a smaller and smaller percentage of the guys are getting a larger and larger percentage of the action some guys may feel they have no choice but to claim MGTOW in order to save face if nothing else.
05-21-2015 12:25 PM
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RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
I used to binge watch all those MGTOW content producers on youtube, but at some point I had to cut all of that out. It's just way too fucking depressing. I do agree that men have to be aware of female nature but to live a life without female contact is one not worth living. Might as well put a gun in your mouth and call it a life.
05-21-2015 01:01 PM
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RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 01:01 PM)Dark Knowledge Wrote:  I used to binge watch all those MGTOW content producers on youtube, but at some point I had to cut all of that out. It's just way too fucking depressing. I do agree that men have to be aware of female nature but to live a life without female contact is one not worth living. Might as well put a gun in your mouth and call it a life.

Same here. I used to be subbed to Sandman. After a while, I couldn't stand listening to these guys. The same thing, day in and out.

05-21-2015 01:11 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 12:25 PM)Scorpio Rising Wrote:  
(05-21-2015 11:12 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  This is a rather puzzling video.

Most of these MGTOWs aren't really bad guys.

But they just don't understand that some of us are not temperamentally suited for the MGTOW "mindset." Regardless of what he says, there is a cloud that hangs over the whole MGTOW thing. It reeks of despair, resignation, and defeat. Perceptions matter.
.
I can't disagree but when a smaller and smaller percentage of the guys are getting a larger and larger percentage of the action some guys may feel they have no choice but to claim MGTOW in order to save face if nothing else.

While I see where you're coming from, I can't understand such defeatist thinking. Especially when everything you need to learn game is readily available for free on-line.

If someone can't get laid and they're not happy with that, the solution is to learn how to get laid, not to pretend they never wanted to get laid in the first place.

I mean it's not like we're translating ancient Greek over here, they could read Bang in a day or two, start approaching and be well on their way to not sucking at life within a few weeks. If they're truly unhappy with their situation, but aren't even willing to make that small of an effort, then they're irredeemable.
05-21-2015 01:21 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Quote:MRA, NeoMasculinity, whatever member you are, it should all fit under MGTOW.

You have it inverted. MGTOW can be a sub-group of neomasculinity that are composed of men who are temporarily lost and sex-less. We can aid and advise them until they recognize their innate masculinity once again and be done with their "I don't want to interact with women" stage that is not sustainable for any man's life.

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05-21-2015 04:37 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
(05-21-2015 04:37 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
Quote:MRA, NeoMasculinity, whatever member you are, it should all fit under MGTOW.

You have it inverted. MGTOW can be a sub-group of neomasculinity that are composed of men who are temporarily lost and sex-less. We can aid and advise them until they recognize their innate masculinity once again and be done with their "I don't want to interact with women" stage that is not sustainable for any man's life.

I don't mean so much as to what MGTOW has come to mean. I mean what MGTOW was SUPPOSED to be when it was created.

It appears MGTOW has been hijacked by guys who think the only way to beat the fematrix is to go the abstinence route. But that was not the original design.

You are right though, now MGTOW has become the sexless option, it would be a sub-group under NeoMasculinity for those who are lost.
05-21-2015 04:57 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Sandman On Roosh, and Neo Masculinity
Quote:It appears MGTOW has been hijacked

And this is why your ideology should not be controlled or steered by the faceless mob. The same thing is happening to the red pill.

Quintus and I will enforce neomasculine principles, and swiftly attack those who attempt to hijack it.

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05-21-2015 05:03 PM
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