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NASA Discovers "Bigger, Older" Cousin to Earth
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speakeasy Offline
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Post: #26
RE: NASA Discovers "Bigger, Older" Cousin to Earth
(07-25-2015 08:48 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 07:33 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 07:07 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  People forget one important thing to do with travel and landing on planets.

Gravity distorts time so if the density of a planet is greater than that of Earth you will age slower than those relative to you on Earth. They already have this problem not 100 miles above our surface with satellites but by milliseconds. I wonder how they will overcome this problem.

The difference in gravity between earth and a planet someone bigger than earth wouldn't be enough to cause any noticeable time distortion. You'd need the type of gravity you see coming from black holes to really fuck things up.

The fact that it exists just 100 miles from our surface should make it open to debate and investigating.

But what I'm saying is that the distortion would have to be tremendous to cause any serious distortion in time. The time slowdown we see on satellites going around the earth is measurable, but negligible, otherwise those astronauts spending months of time on ISS would come back down and find everyone has aged much faster than them.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2015 12:37 PM by speakeasy.)
07-25-2015 12:36 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #27
RE: NASA Discovers "Bigger, Older" Cousin to Earth
That's right. The only reason the time difference is worth noting at all is because slight amounts of asynchronicity will affect the accuracy of GPS, etc.

Bella, horrida bella
et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno
07-25-2015 02:06 PM
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Wutang Offline
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Post: #28
RE: NASA Discovers "Bigger, Older" Cousin to Earth
I'm typically a Debbie Downer about such news. I can intellectually understand why people are enchanted with the likes of Neil Degrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan; both men are supremely articulate and have done well in creating a narrative of cosmology that transforms space exploration into almost a holy spiritual quest. But whenever I read or listen to their prose I can't help but think the viewpoint expounded by H.P. Lovecraft is just as valid and perhaps even more likely to the future then the sort of interstellar salvation being preached among educated people these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmicism

"Perhaps the most prominent theme in cosmicism is the utter insignificance of humanity. Lovecraft believed that "the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists."[2] Cosmicism shares many characteristics with nihilism, though one important difference is that cosmicism tends to emphasize the inconsequentiality of humanity and its doings, rather than summarily rejecting the possible existence of some higher purpose (or purposes)"
07-25-2015 03:11 PM
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Post: #29
RE: NASA Discovers "Bigger, Older" Cousin to Earth
(07-25-2015 03:11 PM)Wutang Wrote:  I'm typically a Debbie Downer about such news. I can intellectually understand why people are enchanted with the likes of Neil Degrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan; both men are supremely articulate and have done well in creating a narrative of cosmology that transforms space exploration into almost a holy spiritual quest. But whenever I read or listen to their prose I can't help but think the viewpoint expounded by H.P. Lovecraft is just as valid and perhaps even more likely to the future then the sort of interstellar salvation being preached among educated people these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmicism

"Perhaps the most prominent theme in cosmicism is the utter insignificance of humanity. Lovecraft believed that "the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists."[2] Cosmicism shares many characteristics with nihilism, though one important difference is that cosmicism tends to emphasize the inconsequentiality of humanity and its doings, rather than summarily rejecting the possible existence of some higher purpose (or purposes)"

Never heard of cosmicism but reading your link, it comes pretty close to describing my philosophy. What intrigues me is how something can feel simultaneously significant yet not be significant all at the same time. The death of someone close to you would be devastating from a personal perspective, but from the cosmicism perspective, it's about as important as an ant getting washed down the gutter in a rain storm. What the hell is our meager 75 year lifespan in a universe 14 billion years old? I'll tell you what it is: 5.35714286e-7 . That's the importance of your life to the cosmos. A number so small that's it's not even comprehensible. That's what your entire life and experiences amount to. I sometimes wrestle with both of these perspectives in my head. In a way cosmicism isn't good for you because it can make you lazy and apathetic. Why work for any meaningful goals if it is ultimately insignificant anyway. I started thinking about how crazy the very nature of consciousness and high self-awareness is. Our bodies and brains just a bunch of organic compounds organized through billions of years of evolution. Some star that existed billions of years ago fused heavy elements from helium and hydrogen. It exploded in a supernova and this material coalesced into a newer generation of stars made of heavier elements that congealed to form denser stars and rocky planets with these elements. We are made from this material. We are literally the universe observing and thinking about itself. Maybe that is the purpose of intelligent life. For the universe itself to evolve consciousness through us, and contemplate itself. Intelligent life may be the end-game of the universe. One day we'll all be gone, all stars will die, the last black holes will have evaporated and there'll be just a void of nothingness. Won't matter how much money you made, how well you did in your career, what car you drove, how many girls you banged, what you accomplished, your memories will die when your brain stops functioning at death. Even 300 years from now nobody will even remember who you are or think about you or care. It will be like you never even existed. Your genes may live on through posterity but beyond that the only record of your existence will be perhaps an entry in some computer database, maybe even something you posted if the internet is around and anybody bothers to look it up. It's a very elite club of humans who will be remembered long after their death. But even then, once humans are gone, none of that will matter either.

At the same time though, the earth and the cosmos and life itself are beautiful in endless ways and just taking a walk down the street and looking at animals, the infrastructure and civilizations we've built, the clouds, women, great people I know, I sometimes feel I'm in constant awe that all this stuff got here by random chemical compounds reacting with each other. Even a damn cockroach is a miracle when you really think about it, let alone consciousness itself. So I have have a view of things being mostly meaningless yet amazing all at once. Like looking at some painting that was created by an accidental spilling of paint yet turned out to be a masterpiece by random chance.



07-25-2015 05:08 PM
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Wutang Offline
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Post: #30
RE: NASA Discovers "Bigger, Older" Cousin to Earth
(07-25-2015 05:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  
(07-25-2015 03:11 PM)Wutang Wrote:  I'm typically a Debbie Downer about such news. I can intellectually understand why people are enchanted with the likes of Neil Degrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan; both men are supremely articulate and have done well in creating a narrative of cosmology that transforms space exploration into almost a holy spiritual quest. But whenever I read or listen to their prose I can't help but think the viewpoint expounded by H.P. Lovecraft is just as valid and perhaps even more likely to the future then the sort of interstellar salvation being preached among educated people these days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmicism

"Perhaps the most prominent theme in cosmicism is the utter insignificance of humanity. Lovecraft believed that "the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists."[2] Cosmicism shares many characteristics with nihilism, though one important difference is that cosmicism tends to emphasize the inconsequentiality of humanity and its doings, rather than summarily rejecting the possible existence of some higher purpose (or purposes)"
Even a damn cockroach is a miracle when you really think about it, let alone consciousness itself. So I have have a view of things being mostly meaningless yet amazing all at once. Like looking at some painting that was created by an accidental spilling of paint yet turned out to be a masterpiece by random chance.

I personally find consciousness and the fact that it exists to be more fascinating then anything about related to how big and old the rest of the universe is. If there's something that I find that saves me from the nihilism that comes from realize of us being physically miniscule compared to the rest of the universe, it's that we are quantitatively smaller then the rest of the universe but at same time qualitatively different then anything else in the universe (as far as we know for now). With consciousness and minds there would be nothing to have these sort of feelings of grandeur and awe. I don't think I'd be incorrect that despite all the barriers between the human and animal mind that have fallen in the last few decades, we are unique in that we can think of infinity and step out of our egos. At least for me, I find that sort of idea to fill me with more wonder then there the idea that there is a bazillion stars out there. To me, even if there was only one conscious mind existing it would be more significant having a near infinite amount of dead matter floating around with nothing perceiving it.
07-25-2015 07:17 PM
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