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brick tamland Offline
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Post: #176
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Disney?
Since I haven't watched TV for a few years, I happened to find my niece watching 'Pair of Kings' a Disney fantasy sitcom that ran for 3 seasons between 2010 and 2013 whose story is about two brothers who are:
*fraternal twins
*one of the brothers is white
*the other is black
*their parents are a white male and a black female.

The series was targeted at a pre teen and teenage audience so its interesting how the mainstream media is shaping young minds.
12-25-2015 11:15 AM
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Malo Offline
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Post: #177
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-25-2015 10:49 AM)Onto Wrote:  I don't think they will ever make a better one than Empire.

I agree, although when you think about it Empire is a one-off. No other star wars film ever came near imho.
12-25-2015 10:03 PM
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Post: #178
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
The whole Finn (civilian not a minority comment) and chick Jedi thing is to make it seem everyone could be a Jedi. To cheapen and water down something that to me was always some noble breed of warriors. Like samurai. Many of those who make entertainment have never really had to sacrifice in blood, sweat and tears or to lose someone in battle so I doubt they understand how,properly present a Jedi. Or any movie about physical conflict. I include myself In the group I am mocking. I have never served, I could never fully understand. I may be taking it a bit far.

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand the storm." And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm."

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12-26-2015 12:06 AM
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Post: #179
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Saw it today. Rey reminded me of Danaerys from Game of Thrones. That's not good.
12-26-2015 01:14 AM
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CynicalContrarian Offline
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Post: #180
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
I think the person who should be worried the most about actress Daisy Ridley, is Keira Knightly.

They have a slight resemblance.
Both are British.
Both are now 'action' movie actresses.
Both are just as capable as the other for those types of roles.

Yet, Daisy I'd say, is a touch more feminine & therefore a touch more attractive than Keira.
Plus Daisy is much younger to boot.
Also, now being the central protagonist of a massive $tar War$ film, Daisy is just as recognizable a face as Keira.

Heh.
Perhaps Keira can join 'washed up' Anne Hathoway at age 32 to bemoan all the good parts going to younger actresses.

Hollywood or Holly-wall?
(This post was last modified: 12-26-2015 05:02 AM by CynicalContrarian.)
12-26-2015 05:01 AM
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Post: #181
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-26-2015 05:01 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  I think the person who should be worried the most about actress Daisy Ridley, is Keira Knightly.

They have a slight resemblance.
Both are British.
Both are now 'action' movie actresses.
Both are just as capable as the other for those types of roles.

Yet, Daisy I'd say, is a touch more feminine & therefore a touch more attractive than Keira.
Plus Daisy is much younger to boot.
Also, now being the central protagonist of a massive $tar War$ film, Daisy is just as recognizable a face as Keira.

Heh.
Perhaps Keira can join 'washed up' Anne Hathoway at age 32 to bemoan all the good parts going to younger actresses.

Hollywood or Holly-wall?

All the big time breakout actresses in the last 15 years have been interchangeable clones of each other and completely generic. I can't recall one standout performance from any of them. You could substitute a big name like Jennifer Lawrence for any of these new breed actresses and the results would be the same.
12-26-2015 05:08 AM
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Post: #182
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-26-2015 05:08 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  
(12-26-2015 05:01 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  I think the person who should be worried the most about actress Daisy Ridley, is Keira Knightly.

They have a slight resemblance.
Both are British.
Both are now 'action' movie actresses.
Both are just as capable as the other for those types of roles.

Yet, Daisy I'd say, is a touch more feminine & therefore a touch more attractive than Keira.
Plus Daisy is much younger to boot.
Also, now being the central protagonist of a massive $tar War$ film, Daisy is just as recognizable a face as Keira.

Heh.
Perhaps Keira can join 'washed up' Anne Hathoway at age 32 to bemoan all the good parts going to younger actresses.

Hollywood or Holly-wall?

All the big time breakout actresses in the last 15 years have been interchangeable clones of each other and completely generic. I can't recall one standout performance from any of them. You could substitute a big name like Jennifer Lawrence for any of these new breed actresses and the results would be the same.

Bonus points for hilarity: Natalie Portman and Keira Knightley were interchangeable. Literally. On Ep 1, Knightley is one of the doubles for Portman's character, Padme Amidala. She was literally cast because she couldn't be easily told apart from Natalie Portman.
12-26-2015 05:39 AM
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Post: #183
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
So I guess that adds even more to the theory that she is a Skywalker.
12-26-2015 08:46 AM
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Post: #184
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
I was pleasantly surprised at the movie. While I dislike diversity for diversity's sake alone, I found the Rey and Finn characters refreshing. Amusing. Of course, it's complete B.S. how effective her powers are with no training, but that isn't necessarily the result of girl power: I suspect they simply wanted to move the plot along quickly without pausing for a slow telling of back-story. Besides, its Star Wars - there is already TONS of backstory. I did find the occasional grrrl-power references grating - like how she refuses to take Finn's hand as he leads her to safety - but extends HER hand to him when he needs saving. But hey, this is Disney. They are nothing if not effective marketers. And with all the violence and action scenes, little boys were sure to flock to it any way...by adding a strong girl character, they get little girls interested, too. Still, they need to be careful with this: Little boys get bored when there isn't a character they can aspire to. And there has been a young male character in each of the first six movies. They need to make Luke their likeable male character again, if he is even capable of appearing youthful at this age. Or they need to introduce new young male characters in Episode XIII. To fail to do this two movies in a row is to take a shit on their main audience, and that isn't recommended with a billion-dollar franchise. Remember who made the franchise what it is. This isn't hunger games - no need to turn it into that.

All in all, I enjoyed the movie, but I'll watch to see how far out of hand the grrrrl-power and "black storm troopers matter" themes get played in future sequels.
(This post was last modified: 12-27-2015 10:08 PM by The Father.)
12-27-2015 10:06 PM
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Post: #185
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
I do not know what I watched but this is not Star Wars. There is no plot, none. Holy crap this is bad.

Deus vult!
12-28-2015 12:25 AM
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Post: #186
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-28-2015 12:25 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  I do not know what I watched but this is not Star Wars. There is no plot, none. Holy crap this is bad.

It's the result of a complete lack of vision, just a bunch of scenes put together by a committee to attract the largest possible audience, but soulless and pointless.

Even Han's death lacked impact. Chewie howls and Leia has a force stroke - then they just move on. Chewie and Leia don't even hug.

Chewie cries and Leia slurs her way through some dialog, then Chewie is off with Rey who is now the Falcon pilot for some reason.
12-28-2015 12:55 AM
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brick tamland Offline
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Post: #187
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Well this movie has now set a record for the shortest time to earn 1 billion USD (a mere 12 days), even before being screened in China, which will only happen on 09 January 2016. Besides this record, there are others it has already set, such as biggest earnings on opening weekend, and the second weekend, and even Christmas Day Dodgy .

I still won't pay to see it Noworry

There's even a Wikipedia page dedicated to its records alone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bo...ce_Awakens
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2015 01:09 AM by brick tamland.)
12-28-2015 01:01 AM
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Post: #188
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-28-2015 12:55 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  It's the result of a complete lack of vision, just a bunch of scenes put together by a committee to attract the largest possible audience, but soulless and pointless.

Even Han's death lacked impact. Chewie howls and Leia has a force stroke - then they just move on. Chewie and Leia don't even hug.

Chewie cries and Leia slurs her way through some dialog, then Chewie is off with Rey who is now the Falcon pilot for some reason.


Ha!
"Force stroke" Laugh

Speaking of Fisher. If there is ever a need to explain - "the wall".
A side by side comparison of Ford & Fisher in Force Awakens is all that's required.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2015 02:49 AM by CynicalContrarian.)
12-28-2015 02:49 AM
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Post: #189
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-28-2015 02:49 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  Ha!
"Force stroke" Laugh

Speaking of Fisher. If there is ever a need to explain - "the wall".
A side by side comparison of Ford & Fisher in Force Awakens is all that's required.

And Ford is 14 years older than her!!!
12-28-2015 03:43 AM
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Remington Offline
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Post: #190
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
It really pissed me off that Rey was able to kick Kylo Ren's ass with 0 training. Kylo trained with Luke Skywalker for goodness sake. Either Kylo is a gigantic pussy or Luke can't train for shit.

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12-28-2015 10:31 AM
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Post: #191
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Well, if you think about it, "force ability" is really like a feminist wet dream, since whoever is born with enough of it (boy or girl) can use it to physically overpower much stronger people and be an awesome pilot (or be accomplished at any physical skill) without any training.

Maybe women are better at "the force". Perhaps by the third movie a new breed of all female Jedis will be created which finally restores peace to the Galaxy.

The movie was visually quite nice to look at, but it was a lot like watching a video game.

If only you knew how bad things really are.
12-28-2015 11:50 AM
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Post: #192
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-26-2015 12:06 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  The whole Finn (civilian not a minority comment) and chick Jedi thing is to make it seem everyone could be a Jedi. To cheapen and water down something that to me was always some noble breed of warriors. Like samurai. Many of those who make entertainment have never really had to sacrifice in blood, sweat and tears or to lose someone in battle so I doubt they understand how,properly present a Jedi. Or any movie about physical conflict. I include myself In the group I am mocking. I have never served, I could never fully understand. I may be taking it a bit far.

You're not. I have been in front line engagements, and I will back you up and say that you're spot on. The people in Hollywood obviously have no concept of what it actually means to be good at combat. Even being a frontline soldier isn't something everyone can do....let alone something like being a Jedi. Throughout the entire series it's something that has been consistently portrayed as requiring an enormous amount of willpower and discipline to be have use even basic abilities effectively.
12-28-2015 03:20 PM
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Post: #193
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Saw the movie and it was entertaining. The marketing worked with me so I was curious to see who Kylo Ren was, why Luke didn't show his face on the trailer…

SPOILERS BELOW:
When I saw Kylo Ren stopping a laser blast mid-air I thought HOLY SHIT! He's the baddest of the bad asses! He's going to kick everyone's asses and Luke will appear in the end to save the day. It's going to be the coolest fight. Better choreography than all Matrix films combined!
Seeing Finn (a trained storm trooper) fighting an injured Kylo Ren was plausible but I didn't like how fast Rey became strong. Luke took years to become a Jedi while receiving training from YODA for christ sake! Rey becomes strong in a matter of hours! Girl Power FTW! Yay Sad
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2015 03:27 PM by joost.)
12-28-2015 03:26 PM
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Post: #194
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-28-2015 03:26 PM)joost Wrote:  Luke took years to become a Jedi while receiving training from YODA for christ sake! Rey becomes strong in a matter of hours! Girl Power FTW! Yay Sad

And, after Luke had received the training, was ready to past the trial to become a Jedi, even then Palpatine mocked his "feeble skills".

I can see how her force ability would make her a good pilot - like Anakin was before any training - but that's it.
12-28-2015 03:54 PM
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Post: #195
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-28-2015 03:20 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  Throughout the entire series it's something that has been consistently portrayed as requiring an enormous amount of willpower and discipline to be have use even basic abilities effectively.

The series has been updated to reflect the willingness to sacrifice of the people in this decade. Much different the first 3 came out.

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand the storm." And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm."

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12-28-2015 03:58 PM
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Post: #196
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-28-2015 03:20 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  
(12-26-2015 12:06 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  The whole Finn (civilian not a minority comment) and chick Jedi thing is to make it seem everyone could be a Jedi. To cheapen and water down something that to me was always some noble breed of warriors. Like samurai. Many of those who make entertainment have never really had to sacrifice in blood, sweat and tears or to lose someone in battle so I doubt they understand how,properly present a Jedi. Or any movie about physical conflict. I include myself In the group I am mocking. I have never served, I could never fully understand. I may be taking it a bit far.

You're not. I have been in front line engagements, and I will back you up and say that you're spot on. The people in Hollywood obviously have no concept of what it actually means to be good at combat. Even being a frontline soldier isn't something everyone can do....let alone something like being a Jedi. Throughout the entire series it's something that has been consistently portrayed as requiring an enormous amount of willpower and discipline to be have use even basic abilities effectively.

Insofar as Episode 1 is relevant, Qui-Gon Jinn's words cautioning Anakin himself set the tone: "Training to become a Jedi is not an easy challenge. And even if you succeed, it's a hard life." When I first heard those words they sort of passed over me as obvious because we'd seen Luke struggle through three movies to master his abilities, but they stand as a pretty damning indictment on the continuity and on Rey's sudden mastering of abilities we've only seen Jedi pull off convincingly. To me, in particular, the Jedi Mind Trick is the most damning part: that is an ability we have literally only seen trained Jedi pulling off - Luke in ROTJ being the sole exception, and even then acknowledged by Yoda as needing no more training.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2015 09:07 PM by Paracelsus.)
12-28-2015 09:04 PM
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Post: #197
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-28-2015 11:50 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  The movie was visually quite nice to look at, but it was a lot like watching a video game.

Hmmmm...interesting... you may be on to something...a LOT of their audience did grow up playing video games, after all. Maybe that was part of their plan to attract as big an audience as possible.
12-28-2015 10:35 PM
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Post: #198
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-28-2015 09:04 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  To me, in particular, the Jedi Mind Trick is the most damning part: that is an ability we have literally only seen trained Jedi pulling off - Luke in ROTJ being the sole exception, and even then acknowledged by Yoda as needing no more training.

And Rey hadn't seen it done, was never told how to do it, thought it was a myth until a few hours before - doesn't even need to wave her hand - yet, does it perfectly on the second try.
12-29-2015 12:47 AM
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Post: #199
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
You'd think folk impressed by the character of Rey being "strong"
& "empowered" etc., wouldn't have much to complain about with
the new $tar War$.

Well, they found something to complain about :

Star Wars fans ask #WheresRey as The Force Awakens hero left out of merchandise

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/...1248965ee4

SHE’S the hero of the new Star Wars movie, but that seems to have
slipped Disney’s mind.

Fans shopping for The Force Awakens merchandise have taken to
Twitter to express their outrage that Daisy Ridley’s character, Rey,
seems to be largely missing from shelves.


@StephEvz43
Do better @hasbro, @Disney, and @Target. We find your lack of
female #StarWars toys disturbing. Because it's 2015. #WheresRey

@Breznican
The lack of Rey toys is depressing. Any kid would be disappointed to
get a TIE pilot instead of her. #wheresrey


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12-29-2015 02:31 AM
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Post: #200
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Saw the movie yesterday, it was a true mixed bag for me.

I'm a huge star wars fan and I have been for a very long time. I'm the type that can talk your ear off about various movie theories. That part of me left really satisfied with all of the new questions and possibilities in the star wars universe. Why is Rey so beastly so fast? Could she be the "Chosen One" to bring balance to the Force instead of Anakin? Could she have been conceived from the force like Anakin was? Who is Supreme leader Snoke? How did he rise to power? I read a theory that he could be Darth Plagueis - the jedi with the power of life and death alluded to in the prequels. Who are the Knights of Ren? We saw Kylo Ren standing with a group of people in Rey's flashback sequence - does that mean that they do not follow the Sith "rule of two"? I loved Finn - he is a fantastic original character that grows and learns throughout the film, and the storm troopers this time around actually look and act menacing. These and many other thoughts popped through my head. From the "star wars fan" perspective - I loved it


However, as a red pill manosphere person, it was impossible to not look at that film from that angle. All we have to look at is Rey.
Rey is never sexualized, barely vulnerable, and becomes incredibly good incredibly fast at some shit it takes people decades to master, she is good at everything, truly a representation of "anything guys can do, girls can do better" feminist fantasies. She is the ultimate feminist GRRRLL POWER character.
Need more proof? Look at who she fights:

Kylo Ren - young angry white man who has autistic tantrums, who becomes obsessed with his girl crush while simultaneously putting her down. He is GamerGate as SJWs see them.
Snoke - the old conspiring white man in charge of everything. SJWs believe that old white men are in charge of everything
General Hux - young white man who wants to kill everyone. He is the "lacrosse frat dudebro young businessman" stereotype.

While they are completely different personality wise - they all work together to stop our brave strong independent woman from saving the day. Just like the patriarchy


I wish i could stop looking at movies like this, but I cant.

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12-29-2015 12:54 PM
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