Post: #101

^Indeed, this is an excellent learning opportunity that should be chronicled. I'm not an advocate of spending too much time discussing the sad state of affairs in America, because it distracts from getting busy improving ourselves as men, but stories like these do need to be shared, discussed and remembered so that none of us work hard to build a lifestyle that can too easily be taken away from us.

Post: #102

I think their main error was that they barely scratched the Red Pill surface focusing on Game. I have listened to their podcasts sometimes and they were fun - they usually avoided typical MRA/manosphere topics like feminism etc.

That is why they missed how crazy and powerful those bitches actually are. They have criticized Roosh on how he handled the Dr. Oz situation and the Canada talks. It's all good and well until you actually meet them and they start impacting your personal life. I think that men need to have more respect for that.

This goes out also to men who are semi-public now and focus on Game - Christian McQueen, Goldmund etc. I know that they keep it positive there and mostly write about banging chicks and how to improve their lives. What they miss is that one crazy feminist bitch can unleash a world of publicity pain on them. If they have any job that is vulnerable to such an attack, then that can have serious repercussions for them.

This is just a friendly reminder that we are the rebels now and they are part of the Evil Empire, because the women may publicly declare to not be a feminist, but in secret they are all for it, when the mob gets unleashed on one man.

   

Post: #103

They are closing up shop or already did - their final page looks even worse than the previous ones:

http://www.wakinglifeespresso.com/

Quote:A Farewell
Two and a half weeks ago, blogs, podcasts, and tweets which we ignorantly assumed would be kept anonymous were linked to us. We had made an effort to stay anonymous because at times we used demeaning, harsh, and violent words that expressed hatred and fear towards women. This anonymity allowed our words to knowingly bypass the checks and balances of the community in which we live, and avoid the reactions of real people. The red pill community provided us with validation and adoration as we engaged in this regrettable behavior.
In the aftermath of us being identified, as the ripples spread, we offered separate and joint apologies. We were panicked and fearful, and the apologies reflect that. Our business was crumbling around us, with landlords, suppliers, employees, and customers distancing themselves. We felt lost, ashamed, and confused.
A few key community members and friends showed up and gave us the opportunity to face the anger and pain we’d caused. To lean into it. Notably, Trey Crispin gave freely of his time and boundless energy to challenge us and illuminate the possibility of sustainable, healthy change for us and the community. As we followed this previously unseen path, we discovered a newfound awareness – we realized that our words and motives truly hurt people we cared about. These words and thoughts also hurt us, by causing cynicism and bitterness. We realized that we’d quantified and objectified living, breathing people. People who deserved much better. We’d used cruel words to belittle them and relieve our own insecurities and fears. We’d shared private memories that should have remained secret and sweet. Our ignorance regarding what we have done is no longer present.
We make ourselves available to many of the people we’ve hurt – former partners, protesters, and community members. We are open to hear their pain and anger. We have discovered that some of it wasn’t about us, but was about a society-wide problem for which we’ve become the focal point. We are also experiencing so much grace, compassion, and forgiveness extended to us. We are taking emotions all along the spectrum seriously, and our awareness of the problem continues to grow.
We’ve begun the long process towards being better men, for ourselves and for others. We both are actively involved in counseling, and continue to be open to friends and family who speak into our lives. The firsthand knowledge of the pain and destruction our words have caused has allowed us to cast aside beliefs we previously held. We have a lot of introspection yet to do, and we’re committed to doing it. We will continue to make ourselves available and support the community as we are asked. We will gladly take part in the ongoing dialogue if and when we are invited to do so. We can speak from our experience regarding the hurt we’ve caused, and more importantly, from where this hurt came. We are currently addressing the red pill community in order to illuminate the damage this philosophy can cause.
Waking Life as a coffeeshop, as our livelihood, and as a community establishment is now gone. We are deeply grieving its loss. We poured blood, sweat, and tears into the business, and we were damn good at making coffee. We truly enjoyed our daily interactions with West Asheville, and we will miss them. We are being transformed as men. However, in losing the coffeeshop, a part of us that was good, real, and true has been lost.
As we seek healing and move forward with hope, we remember the good things about our little coffee community and are grateful.
Thanks for the good times, Asheville.
Thanks for the countless cups and conversations.
Thanks for the friendships that have been tested and proven true.
Thanks for holding us accountable for our behavior.
Thanks for the grace, compassion, and forgiveness you’ve shown.
Thanks for the support over the years.
Thanks for being our employees, regulars, and suppliers.
Thanks for rerouting our lives from the way of power to the way of grace.
Thanks for the smiles and the honesty.
Thanks for being a hometown of which we can be proud.
Thanks for giving us room to grow and change.
Thanks for helping us be aware.
Thanks for inspiring us to be better people.
Thanks for dashing our cynicism and humbling us.
Thanks for your big heart and showing up.
Be well, y’all.

Post: #104

Live by hipsters, die by hipsters.
This was all their own doing. They fell on their own sword. Idiots.
I know of church ministers who fuck through a bunch of hoes because they brazenly deny it at all times. If that aint red handed hypocrisy nothing is. Admit nothing, carry on and people walk away.

Post: #105

(10-28-2015 09:59 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  We’ve begun the long process towards being better men, for ourselves and for others. We both are actively involved in counseling, and continue to be open to friends and family who speak into our lives. The firsthand knowledge of the pain and destruction our words have caused has allowed us to cast aside beliefs we previously held. We have a lot of introspection yet to do, and we’re committed to doing it. We will continue to make ourselves available and support the community as we are asked. We will gladly take part in the ongoing dialogue if and when we are invited to do so. We can speak from our experience regarding the hurt we’ve caused, and more importantly, from where this hurt came. We are currently addressing the red pill community in order to illuminate the damage this philosophy can cause.

This is a sanctimonious fuck-you to every man in the manosphere, including those who supported them in the past and associated their names with them. That act of respect was not returned by them:



Remember what I said about identifying threats to a tribe?

Quote:"[these type of men have] zero loyalty to the tribe when the repercussions of their actions threaten their own safety"

They never were part of the community, they were only pretending to be so for their own ends and egos.

Hang back and observe other men. Choose your allies wisely.

Post: #106

From what I can remember when listening to their podcasts occasionally is that one of the guys came from a highly religious community.

It's possible that both guys took significant debts to build and expand their business (they were into production of a bottled coffee drink as well). Being such overly good Blue Pill Beta boys in front of his parents may pave the way for the parents to pick up the debts.

But even if that is true it's a heavy price to pay. They may not owe the debts to the bank anymore, but probably to their families now having to remain in Blue Pill land.

I would love to talk to them and ask what happened. Maybe they did not delve into the why of the Red Pill at all similarly like Mystery who knew how to pick up girls, but was having Oneitis and other Blue Pill perceptions. He only knew how to get laid, but that is only part of the Red Pill/neomasculinity.

The last letter is terrible by the way - utterly terrible for guys who have criticized the frame control of Roosh a few months before.

Post: #107

How's this for an idea...the next step if you will...

We've got rvf and rok.

Roosh doing lectures.

Notable neo-masculine guys going public with their identities.

What about opening a brick-and-mortar establishment that was openly neo-masculine? A coffee shop for guys like us to get all jacked up on caffeine, think, and debate?

I always had this romantic notion as a kid of hanging out in coffee shops, all fucked up on absinthe, hanging out with guys like Voltaire, Kant, Wagner, Beethoven, Toulouse-Lautrec, etc. Instead what I got was sullen goths listening to Depeche Mode. Now everyone's just zombied out on their macbook or smartphone.

Yeah it'd be an insane uphill battle, but mostly with the landlord. Vendors don't give a shit as long as you pay your bills on time. But with the right real estate agent and a good security camera setup the place could be outrageously successful I think. A place for guys to get some kickass coffee and speak freely. There'd be protests nonstop but think about how large the manosphere has become. Even guys that don't identify with neo-masculinity would come out of the woodwork I think.

Post: #108

It's worth noting that the mea culpa letter that these dudes wrote strikes the exact, identical tone of countless such letters of "self-criticism" and apology for "straying from the true path" written is societies like the former USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, etc etc. It is really the exact same thing.

There is an overarching theme of wholesale confession of rather large, vague, abstract -- and all the more terrible for that -- sins, the expression of obligatory gratitude to the Party and Community for showing the right way, the promise to go out and learn from the virtuous masses and to give back in the same (abstract and ineffable) measure that one has somehow taken away. Through it all, through the dense and impregnable cant and party line jargon, there sounds a note of a sort of harrowed sleaze, an insincerity that is as deep as the terror that accompanies it is real. I've seen quite a few such letters in my readings, and they are all the same; and this is certainly one of them.

What is really remarkable is that in the other societies I mentioned where such letters were routinely produced, the moral authority of the Party and its Year Zero diktats was backed by the threat and reality of wholesale violence, torture and execution. That is not the case in Asheville, North Carolina; no one will come knocking on these manginas' doors at night and lead them away to a very nasty and cold basement if they failed to prostrate themselves before the Party and confess their sins. But the power and hold of today's Year Zero ideology is so complete that it compels a Viet Cong level of harrowed abnegation without having to enforce it with the threat of deadly violence.

This is a reality that would have confused Comrade Stalin and his pals a great deal; they wholeheartedly believed that if you don't chop off heads -- a lot of heads, the more the merrier -- nothing really gets done, and no one will listen to what you have to say as if it really mattered. And it's a very reasonable assumption; but today's Year Zero commies have managed to go from strength to strength and get the letters written with nary a head being chopped. Somewhere in their graves the old ghouls must be pensively twirling their mustaches and wondering what the hell is going on.

Post: #109

(10-28-2015 06:38 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  It's worth noting that the mea culpa letter that these dudes wrote strikes the exact, identical tone of countless such letters of "self-criticism" and apology for "straying from the true path" written is societies like the former USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, etc etc. It is really the exact same thing.

Their latest missive in particular has all the fear & insincerity of a statement read by a hostage denouncing his country, renouncing his ideology, and praising his captors.

One wonders if there isn't some very actual threat they may be operating under.

Post: #110

(10-28-2015 08:31 PM)Scoundrel Wrote:  

(10-28-2015 06:38 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  It's worth noting that the mea culpa letter that these dudes wrote strikes the exact, identical tone of countless such letters of "self-criticism" and apology for "straying from the true path" written is societies like the former USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, etc etc. It is really the exact same thing.

Their latest missive in particular has all the fear & insincerity of a statement read by a hostage denouncing his country, renouncing his ideology, and praising his captors.

One wonders if there isn't some very actual threat they may be operating under.

Follow the money.

Post: #111

(10-28-2015 04:09 PM)Veloce Wrote:  I always had this romantic notion as a kid of hanging out in coffee shops, all fucked up on absinthe, hanging out with guys like Voltaire, Kant, Wagner, Beethoven, Toulouse-Lautrec, etc. Instead what I got was sullen goths listening to Depeche Mode. Now everyone's just zombied out on their macbook or smartphone.

Yeah, I remember too thinking that when I left my childhood country town I'd finally be amongst the intelligentsia.

Expectation:



Reality:



From the 80's to now, it's always just the mid-witted Liberal children of the wealthy. I think anyone truly-intelligent quickly abandons any scene and leaves it to the fauxhemians and dilettantes - at least in Westernised countries.

Post: #112

SJWs took their coffee shop - their livelihood - for what? Their opinions.

And they apologized to them.

Yeah...

Post: #113

They should pool their resources and leverage their expertise to open a strip club that sells coffee.

Post: #114

(10-28-2015 06:38 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  It's worth noting that the mea culpa letter that these dudes wrote strikes the exact, identical tone of countless such letters of "self-criticism" and apology for "straying from the true path" written is societies like the former USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, etc etc. It is really the exact same thing.

I was going to post something similar, but The Lizard of Oz nailed it with his beautifully worded post.

My family lived under communism for a while and then escaped. All of us, myself included as a child, had to write these self-criticism letters at some point.

However, we were significantly less grovelling, despite facing a much more serious threat of the re-education camp.

The ones who self-criticised the hardest tended to turn into the worst attack dogs for The Party afterwards, hunting down people whom they formerly shared the "counter-revolutionary" sentiments with.

As you put it though, Oz, the modern cultural Marxists are achieving this without actual serious threats of violence, unlike the Communist Party of old, when they were big on various forms of tortures and making people disappear at re-education camps.

Post: #115

Long detailed article about the whole situation. Talks a bit about that Jared guy's up bringing, how he got into game and also has the women he banged commenting:

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/01/jared-ru...c-v-r.html

Funny thing is a lot of them were perfectly fine with their encounter with him until his blog was discovered. One girl he banged even VOUCHED for him and encouraged her friends to let him bang them too.

Quote:That night, C., a redheaded woman in her late 20s, saw the link to the blog. She glanced at it long enough to understand that it had something to do with Waking Life Espresso, a popular West Asheville coffee shop owned by Jared Rutledge and Jacob Owens. C. and Jared had had a six-month fling in 2012; she’d just gotten out of an abusive relationship, and Jared, with his brown curls and his philosophy major’s curiosity, seemed like the perfect candidate for some strings-free fun. Her experience with him had been such a refreshing example of no-drama casual sex that when several friends asked her about Jared after matching with him on Tinder, she told them to go for it. Her friends went on to sleep with him, too.

Quote:It was difficult for C. to reconcile the respectful, bearded philosophy major she’d dated with Tweets like “I hate girls ‘I do everything but fuck on the 1st date’ rules. Hard to hide my disdain. My cock was in your mouth, why not the pussy bitch.” They must have the wrong guy. Then she started reading a post titled “A Breakdown of All My Lays.” “I’m going to analyze my own experience with women in order to shed some light on what women are really like,” Jared had written. What followed was a list of his sexual conquests, evaluated with a numerical score that ranked each woman’s face, body, and personality, as well as a brief description. There was something horrifyingly familiar about number four: “Frisky little redhead, early twenties. Not very hot and talked too much … I bailed on her because I wasn’t that into it. I see her from time to time, and she’s letting herself go a little.” C. screamed so loudly that her boyfriend jumped out of the shower to see what was wrong.

Quote:I spoke with a number of women who were involved with Jared during these years — some as one-night stands, others for as long as six months. None of them wanted an exclusive relationship, and all of them felt okay about how things had gone with Jared before they read his descriptions of them online. “Men [in Asheville] in their 30s have, like, two part-time jobs and four roommates,” one told me. “They don’t grow up.” In this context, Jared stood out. “He had his own business,” another woman told me, “and that was something I liked about him.”

Quote:On my last night in Asheville, I met four women at a downtown bar. All of them were on Jared’s List of Lays. Over cocktails and ramen, the women told me about Jared’s sexual habits, his occasional flakiness, his black-and-white worldview. (They also asked me not to use their names.) They seemed most troubled by just how fine he had been to date. “I really liked him,” said W. “And that’s what makes me feel so gullible.”

He hadn’t tricked them by cheating or falsely professing love; they’d all hooked up with him knowing the relationship was casual. “I knew he was dating other people. I was, too,” said W.

Some of the reactions to their blog when it was discovered:

Quote:Some Ashevillians took a boys-will-be-boys attitude, arguing that Jared and Jacob were just talking the way men talk when women aren’t around. But for the most part, the judgment against them was swift. The owner of a local gallery who had been friendly with the two men stopped selling their iced coffee. Another small-business owner called Whole Foods and suggested it do the same. A few dozen people picketed outside Waking Life, holding signs that read I AM A WOMAN, NOT A PLATE and DON'T BUY THEIR COFFEE OR THEIR APOLOGY. Jared had uncomfortable conversations about his personal life with his family members. “You know,” his grandmother told him, “we’re women too.” The online discussion got so heated that one local yoga instructor created a special series of poses to enable forgiveness and shared it on Facebook. But, said Jared, “Nobody reached out to us to say, ‘What do you need to heal, to be better men?’ — except Trey.”

Post: #116

(01-21-2016 01:54 PM)Wutang Wrote:  Long detailed article about the whole situation. Talks a bit about that Jared guy's up bringing, how he got into game and also has the women he banged commenting:

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/01/jared-ru...c-v-r.html

That is an excellent article. It's biased as hell, but it's full of clear direct quotes.

Quote:Sarah Winkler, a coffee-shop employee who had worked for Jared and Jacob for two and a half years, read their analysis of “female behaviors” and assertions that “logic is not a woman’s strong suit” and immediately quit.

Very interesting section that gets to the heart of why they offered to give money to the rape charity:

Quote:Trey Crispin is 45, with a graying man-bun and a gentle manner. He’s also the size of a fullback. Back when he was a professional snowboarder, he regularly snapped his boards in half with the force of his moves. Later, he learned how to control his own strength through the practice of t’ai chi. Having worked on his own anger issues for years, he says he is precisely attuned to other people’s aggression and sensitive to when it seems misplaced.
...
That evening, Trey tried to dream up a way forward that would honor the harm that had been done but prioritize healing over vengeance. In Trey’s vision, the coffee shop would stay open, with all profits going to nonprofits that combated violence against women. The Waking Life men would organize community circles — groups of men and women who would get together and talk, vent their frustrations, and, he hoped, learn from one another.

He contacted Jacob and Jared with his idea through Facebook, and the two men agreed to meet with him at the coffee shop the next evening. It had been three days since the scandal had broken, and the two men looked feral, hunted. They hadn’t been eating; they smelled bad. Trey told them to sit down and asked them to explain what they’d done and why. Every time they offered up an excuse or rationalization, Trey filled the room with his shouting. “He’s a big guy,” Jared told me. “I’d never been sat down and yelled at like that by a man before.” By the end of the evening, Trey believed that Jared and Jacob were sincerely interested in the hard work of self-examination and earning forgiveness. “That night, I felt like I had hope for the first time in about 72 hours,” Jared said.

Basically an aging hippie became the closest thing to a father figure they had. Shame that they didn't have the opportunity to meet a man with his head screwed on straight though.


Speaking truth to power:

Quote:“Why do you want to marry a 25-year-old?” I asked.

“Hotness, absolutely,” he said.

I pointed out that 25-year-olds eventually become 35-year-olds, and then 45-year-olds.

“Here’s the thing,” he said. “There’s scientific evidence that when a male commits to somebody, in his brain they’re always as attractive — I’ll send you the study.” You can’t tell from the recording, but I’m pretty sure I put my head in my hands. “Why does that provoke such an emotional response in you?” Jared asked.

Maybe he can still save himself...

Quote:I was starting to wonder if maybe they were right. “I’m open to change,” Jared was saying. “Maybe I’ll be 38 and I’ll marry a beautiful 50-year-old CFO that can just kick my ass and ties me up. I’m open to new information always. I think that’s where I got off the mark a little bit with this. I thought I had the answer — but the answers I thought I had hurt a lot of people and hurt me.”

On to the women:

Quote:“Having my heart broken by someone I never had an emotional investment in — it’s awful,” said C.

Quote: Several of the women told me they didn’t leave their rooms for days after the List of Lays came out and that their relationships with other men in their lives suffered. C. stopped sleeping with her boyfriend temporarily, feeling self-conscious about what Jared had said about her

Quote:After the scandal broke, several of the women started a private Facebook group to collectively process the disorienting experience of seeing their private lives — including one of the women’s first experience with anal sex — put up for public consumption.
...
“You’d think that meeting up with a bunch of people who’ve had sex with the same person you have would be awful,” said C. “But instead it was like, look at all these wonderful ladies.”
...
Some of them have continued to meet; these days, they talk about their boyfriends and their jobs just as much as they talk about Jared. “It’s so hard to make friends after college,” L. said. “So in a weird way, it’s been a kind of gift.”

...and back to where I started:

Quote:“There’s so much misogyny in the world, particularly in the service industry,” said Sarah Winkler, the former Waking Life barista, is opening a coffee shop of her own this year. “This was clear evidence of that. All women were affected by it, whether your name was on the list or not.”

Sarah Winkler gets herself name checked twice in an article that she's only tangentially related to.

With them out of business there's a gap in the market for someone who knows their processes.

Sarah Winkler is now opening her own coffee shop and letting people know that she worked at Waking Life for years.

Still no word on who 'outed' them and why.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #117

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwMukKqx-Os

No idea how to put the video on here

Post: #118

(01-21-2016 01:54 PM)Wutang Wrote:  Funny thing is a lot of them were perfectly fine with their encounter with him until his blog was discovered. One girl he banged even VOUCHED for him and encouraged her friends to let him bang them too.

If only they had done a better job staying anonymous, they would be fine now.

It's like how they say if you like sausage, don't watch it being made. Women eat their share, force themselves to watch it being made for hours on end, then get mad at the sausage.

Post: #119

Now Holistic Game is being denounced in a theater play!

But the real news is that feminists have seized on this to equate consensual sex with rape.

http://wlos.com/news/local/play-inspired...-asheville

Quote:"Our concerns were ... the fact that she had not contacted any of the survivors, the way the play was written was very specific about Waking Life events and we felt that that perhaps could re-victimize individuals," Executive Director of Our Voice Angelica Wind said.

Yep, the girls who dated Holistic Game are now being called survivors. As if being gamed was something you could die from and the girls were lucky to "survive" it.

Every girl who gets asked directions to the pet store can now claim equal victim status as someone who is forcibly attacked.

This manipulation of language is part of the continuing push toward making cold approaches illegal, ensuring that consent is to only be bestowed on rich or famous men who can get girls to approach them.

Post: #120

This shit was ridiculous. Being near the area at the time I followed this story, you have to understand the Marxist utopia that is Asheville, The place is a disease. And the Shop owners reacted in the worst possible way, they bent the knee, which only creates a stronger screaming for blood from the thirsty little harpies. If they had stoically held their ground and not given in, their coffee shop would still be around today. I

Post: #121

The word survivor is so diluted these days it's not even funny. So they "survived" being hit on? That's a slap in the face to real victims who go through real crises. A scary precedent is being set with stuff like this, from the "anti street harassment" campaign in New York two years ago, to "It's On Us" on college campuses, to arrests in the UK for running bad game, things are taking a turn for the worse.

Back in the days, this nonsense would likely have been ignored and ridiculed, but now it's gaining more and more traction as time goes on.

Post: #122

(08-19-2016 05:42 PM)BootNootly Wrote:  Now Holistic Game is being denounced in a theater play!

But the real news is that feminists have seized on this to equate consensual sex with rape.

http://wlos.com/news/local/play-inspired...-asheville

Quote:"Our concerns were ... the fact that she had not contacted any of the survivors, the way the play was written was very specific about Waking Life events and we felt that that perhaps could re-victimize individuals," Executive Director of Our Voice Angelica Wind said.

Yep, the girls who dated Holistic Game are now being called survivors. As if being gamed was something you could die from and the girls were lucky to "survive" it.

Every girl who gets asked directions to the pet store can now claim equal victim status as someone who is forcibly attacked.

This manipulation of language is part of the continuing push toward making cold approaches illegal, ensuring that consent is to only be bestowed on rich or famous men who can get girls to approach them.

The consistent thing about feminists is that always pick the easiest targets.

God forbid they should write a play about Rotherham.

These poor chodes just want to get on back with their lives, and they have long since left the stage with their tails between their legs, and some dramaturge gets the bright idea that she needs to go after them.

I don't hate feminists for their hamsters or their solipsism, I hate them for their cowardice. This is like Lebron James going down to the local high school and challenging teenagers to a one on one, and then pumping his fist when he wins.

These clams are shameless.

Post: #123

Live in CLT for the past 20 years and I can tell you that Asheville is where all of the hippies live in the state when they are forced to leave college. They all work in some micro brewery, or tourist trap establishment like this coffee shop surely is. Sadly, this does not surprise me for Asheville.

Post: #124

(10-28-2015 09:15 PM)rpg Wrote:  

(10-28-2015 08:31 PM)Scoundrel Wrote:  

(10-28-2015 06:38 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  It's worth noting that the mea culpa letter that these dudes wrote strikes the exact, identical tone of countless such letters of "self-criticism" and apology for "straying from the true path" written is societies like the former USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, etc etc. It is really the exact same thing.

Their latest missive in particular has all the fear & insincerity of a statement read by a hostage denouncing his country, renouncing his ideology, and praising his captors.

One wonders if there isn't some very actual threat they may be operating under.

Follow the money.

What are you saying? It's really all George Soros?

Post: #125

They've always been whiny little bitches, snapping their fingers in applause at spoken poetry in the 70's, just now trading their berets and turtlenecks for black rimmed glasses and head side-shaves.
Only difference is now they have the internet to get attention with, to exponentially grow and fund their whine fest beat boxing.