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"German" 10x10 Volume Training
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Bad Hussar Offline
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Post: #1
"German" 10x10 Volume Training
Do any members have experience with this type of program. I've been doing a variation of the strong-lifts program for a while and it is getting a bit boring. So was considering switching it up.

The way I understand the program it involves doing one or two compound exercises, like Squats, per session. 10 sets. 10 reps each. 90 second rest between sets. At least 2 rest days before exercising the same body part. In addition to these some additional supplementary isolating exercises are done on a 3x5 basis each session as well.

I work out at home (no spotter or cage), so can't risk going completely to failure. Failed on a bench press a while back. Luckily not seriously injured, but it was definitely no fun.

What do people think the benefits of doing this kind of volume are after a more conventional 5x5 regime?
(This post was last modified: 09-22-2015 01:36 PM by Bad Hussar.)
09-22-2015 01:36 PM
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Blackwell Offline
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RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
Absolutely it's worth doing in my opinion.

I have integrated it at various junctions during my time training. Sometimes just for one workout and sometimes following the format for weeks or months.

It's a high volume routine that sits right on that hypertrophy sweet spot rep range.

If you are coming off a 5×5 which is more strength based then I would definitely consider moving to a GVT style to see if that will lead to more hypertrophy if that fits your goals.

There's a sense of accomplishment that comes after you have just grinded out 10 gruelling sets of the same exercise. I think it's a cool way to train from time to time. It also helps you to become very proficient with your motor patterns for your chosen exercise due the amount and frequency of the reps. It helps you build a quality mind muscle connection.

Now that you mention it, I may begin my winter bulk with 4-6 weeks of this to get going. Thanks for the reminder.
09-22-2015 02:26 PM
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LINUX Away
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RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
It's been around since the late 90's. I dabbled in it three or four times and I've also done some modifications to it. I became very bored with it.

For recreational lifters like you and I, routine is severely overrated. Whether you do a high intensity/low volume or a low volume/high intensity, gains are going to come from consistently hitting the gym day after day and using a progression scheme either with the intensity or with the volume. Strain the muscle, force it to grow, strain the muscle again, force it to grow, rinse and repeat day after day. So to answer your question, there isn't any benefit.

The best workout program is one that you can do and one you look forward to doing. I have a bit of ADHD in the gym because I've been doing it for 15+ years so I do a modified DC training program that allows me to hit a muscle and be done with it in about 5 minutes. My routine isn't any better than 5x5, 5/3/1, GVT, MAX-OT but I enjoy doing it and I make consistent gains year after year.
09-22-2015 02:28 PM
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H1N1 Offline
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RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
You're bored of 5x5, so you think 10x10 is going to excite you? Shit son, you crazy Angel

It's hard to tell you whether it is a good idea without knowing what your goals are. Personally I suspect that coming off 5x5 there may well be a great many programs that are better suited to making progress in whatever direction it is you're looking to go in.

Ultimately the most important variable in any training program is the intensity you are able to bring to the work. If your effort is dialed in, then I believe you could make good progress on 10x3, 4x8, 5x5, 4x6, 10x10, or any combination of the above. Since sufficient intensity, with enough weight or volume to force adaption, is the key criteria, the only reason to pick one program above another is that it specifically brings you closer to your goals, or you just think you'll enjoy it more than any other program (perfectly valid reason to train a particular way).

For me personally, I can't think of anything worse than having to hit 10x10 every time I trained, for multiple body parts.I genuinely don't believe I could put forward enough intensity for each rep of the set to reap good results. You may be differently wired, and may find that you are able to stay intensely focused for 10 reps much easier than you can get your head right for 3 very heavy reps.

But again, without goals or training history, it's pretty hard to give you meaningful input!
09-22-2015 02:48 PM
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Hades Offline
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Post: #5
RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
Poliquin popularized this sort of training long ago.

Quote:What do people think the benefits of doing this kind of volume are after a more conventional 5x5 regime?

Essentially, doing a 10x10 routine will deprogram your mind from what you consider a "quality" rep that will build strength and mass. If you read too much C&P or Rippetoe you might get a sort of complex. You'll think that the only reps worth doing are heavy ass weights.

Paul Carter references this a lot in his works.

This is also why a lot of bodybuilding routines have seemingly ridiculous rep ranges like "one set of 100 curls with the bar", "one set of 40 wrist curls", etc; these kind of balls-out-failure approaches will result in a lot of "easy" gains for anybody who sticks to lower rep ranges.

I recommend doing a 10x10 but don't half ass it, find an actual program and stick to it for the 8-12 weeks you need to actually see gains from it. Poliquin has one on his website.

For any bodyweight afficionados out there, 10x10 is a great set and rep scheme to get into for bodyweight stuff and can keep easier movements like pike pushups interesting for a long time. You should be working on mastering the easy stuff anyway before you move on to the harder movements, not just to avoid injury but to avoid stalling out prematurely. You can also use something like 5x15 to backload a shit ton of volume into your program, for instance, 5x5 weighted pushups, 5x15 knee pushups.
09-22-2015 03:24 PM
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Bad Hussar Offline
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RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
Thanks for the responses. I am going to give it a 12 week test run. Goal is to add around 5 lbs of lean mass over that period. Am a "hardgainer", though I have put on maybe 15-20 lbs of lean mass over the last three years or so. Still have to figure out how to fit in aerobic work and some limited isolation work. Aerobic because I don't really buy the claim that if you do weight training you can forget about aerobic fitness because it will come as a by-product. Hasn't been my experience. Nothing too severe. Maybe 20-30 minute HIIT on an exercise bike. I hate cycling and would rather use a treadmill but I own a stationary bike already and treadmills are too expensive to justify buying for my purposes.

As far as 10x10 being more boring than 5x5. That may be the case, but hopefully not. It's not so much the exercises themselves that I am starting to get bored with. Bur rather the repetitive nature of the way your muscles are taxed. Not from one rep to the next, but from one month the next.
09-23-2015 09:34 AM
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RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
I have followed the 10x10 principal off and on over the years. Just picked it up again as I had been doing much more running than usual and backed off the weights. I combine this with a push / pull superset regime over a two day total body split.

Needless to say the volume and intensity are taking some getting used. However, the gains over 6 weeks with good sleep and diet have been very noticeable. I'm sticking with this plan till Christmas; amping up the cardio as each week goes by and my body adapts to the training volume.

I work out in the early morning as this style of workout closer to bedtime does not promote sleep. It is very intense and leaves the body hyper stimulated for hours after. Keep this in mind if you train at night.
09-23-2015 11:33 AM
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Bad Hussar
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RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
(09-23-2015 09:34 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  Thanks for the responses. I am going to give it a 12 week test run. Goal is to add around 5 lbs of lean mass over that period.

Here is Poliquin's famous article if you're curious. Your goals sound feasible -

http://www.strengthsensei.com/introducti...-training/
09-23-2015 12:17 PM
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RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
I recommend 6 weeks max and only do it for one lift.

Don't get overly ambitious if you are not used to doing high volume. Inflamed tendons from hitting too high volume for too long aren't gonna give you any gainz.

After 6 weeks, drop the volume, lower the reps, up the weights and go for 4 weeks. Then you can start a new training cycle with 6 weeks on 10x10 etc.

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09-24-2015 12:34 AM
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void Offline
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RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
Can anybody give a comparison between doing 5x6 and 10x3. Basically the repetitions and energy you use for both regimes are the same.
Doing 5x6 I think would allow for higher weight?

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(This post was last modified: 09-24-2015 02:18 PM by void.)
09-24-2015 02:18 PM
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Truth Teller Offline
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Post: #11
RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
(09-24-2015 02:18 PM)void Wrote:  Can anybody give a comparison between doing 5x6 and 10x3. Basically the repetitions and energy you use for both regimes are the same.
Doing 5x6 I think would allow for higher weight?

Depends how you do 5x6 vs. how you do 10x3. If you do 5x6 with warm up sets and 2 or 3 work sets, then yes, you can use heavier weights.

If you do 5x6 with 5 sets of 6, you're going to have to go lighter. If you do 10x3 with no warm up sets, you basically would be forced to use lighter weights.

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09-24-2015 02:38 PM
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Menace Offline
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Post: #12
RE: "German" 10x10 Volume Training
I used to work out 3 days a week, but added a fourth volume day on the weekend. I do 10x10 of squat at 135 lbs (nothing too strenuous) and then I'm out. Takes less than 30 minutes. It definitely builds strength, and that's what I'm really after. I wanted to do more than 3/week, but didn't want to do anything too crazy on the weekend.
09-24-2015 02:56 PM
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