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Alcohol and Social Atomization
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thoughtgypsy Offline
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Post: #1
Alcohol and Social Atomization
I was reading a post by Valentine in the 1 year drinking wagon thread and one of his points really struck me:

Quote:It's Socialising on Crutches - Makes socialising easier in the short-term, but in the long-term hinders social skills (see Damages Game)

This makes me wonder how much the encouragement of binge drinking plays into the wider trend of social atomization. People are being pushed into very narrow windows of acceptable socialization.

During the day, people are encouraged not to talk to each other in public through fearmongering about talking to strangers, kidnappers, murderers, and potential rapists. Ridiculous rape stats like 1 in 4 are pushed so that men and women are terrified of normal socialization in the workplace or in public.

People are forced into social media for connection and attention, where their communications can be permanently recorded. The recordings of their interactions can be used as leverage against them in employment or social situations. This makes socialization much more controlled, encouraging people to lie and act fake to avoid being ostracized. This makes the act of socializing with others more mentally taxing, and gives it a more artificial feel, discouraging people to form connections with each other. The only comfort provided is by becoming part of a tribe for a sense of community. Perhaps that explains the hivemind aspect of SJWs, who will allow their tribal emotions to overcome all sense of morality or logic. Further, socialization online has been reduced to attention whoring with likes, notifications, and pop ups, transforming socialization from the building of connections between humans into a hedonistic dopamine rush.

The only popular social environment where people are allowed to gather is in bars. In order to overcome the fears associated with socialization in person, people are encouraged to get absolutely shitfaced in order to talk to each other, let alone hook up. This often leads to regretful nights, reinforcing negative emotions about socialization. If done often enough, it screws with normal dopamine and serotonin function, which could lead to depression and make healthy socialization even more difficult. Now that I think of it, it's amazing really how polarized the idea of socialization is in our culture. If you're in public or using transportation, you're expected to be dead silent. If you're using twitter or facebook, you're expected to toe the party line and you'll be seen as a total asshole if you drop some facts that don't fit the narrative. The only place most people meet up in public is in a bar, where conversation proceeds only in an altered mental state.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I thought Valentine's point tied in with Roosh's recent observations on the intentional atomization of society. Lately I've been noticing a growing awareness of the connections between different aspects of modern society. I'm happy to see this awareness is spreading, and allowing those in our community to recognize destructive behavior and attitudes. I wonder how far down the rabbit hole goes. Thoughts?
11-25-2015 12:57 PM
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456 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
Like the next phase of Bowling Alone ( http://bowlingalone.com/ ), manifesting in 2010's social idioms.
11-25-2015 05:00 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
(11-25-2015 12:57 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  Maybe I'm being paranoid

Yeah, you are, LOL.

Alcohol has been a big part of how human beings -- and men in particular -- have socialized since what a BBC or Discovery Channel documentary narrator might plummily call "the dawn of history". It's one of mankind's deepest and most ancient traditions, across many and very different cultures. The warmth, excitement, and sociability induced even in otherwise reserved men by a drinking buzz are one of alcohol's greatest charms, and different in kind from the state associated with any other drug. No wonder that men who love drinking love it with an almost desperate depth and intensity.

The dangers of alcohol to men who have gone to the well too often, and have drunk too hard for too long, are real and grave -- both the obvious ones, and the less obvious dangers that I've written about at length in the wagon thread. Few things are more harrowing than the death-in-life that can be the fate of a hard drinker whose spirit is coarsened and diminished by years of reliance on the sauce. But there is no need to deny the virtues of drinking at its best as something that brings men together and opens them to each other and to the world; and there is still less need to invent bizarre contemporary conspiracies to explain one of humanity's most familiar and longest-standing traditions.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
11-25-2015 05:53 PM
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thoughtgypsy Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
I appreciate what you're saying Lizard, but I want to clarify that I'm not demonizing alcohol itself. I should have named the title "Binge Drinking and Social Atomization".

While alcohol is a normal part of socialization, I think the extent to which many people use it is excessive these days. When I was working in DC, it seemed like most people never got out of the college phase. Most people my age would binge drink 3 or 4 days a week. Weekday happy hours were normal. "Sunday funday" for the guys and Sunday brunch mimosas for the women were more common than not. People would very rarely socialize unless alcohol was involved. Not drinking in a social setting makes you seem weird to a lot of people.

There's also some anecdotal evidence that alcoholism has been on the rise for the past decade: http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/ar...24242.html

I'm probably just being paranoid, but I still think it's worth a further look.
11-25-2015 06:42 PM
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Bill Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
(11-25-2015 12:57 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  I was reading a post by Valentine in the 1 year drinking wagon thread and one of his points really struck me:

Quote:It's Socialising on Crutches - Makes socialising easier in the short-term, but in the long-term hinders social skills (see Damages Game)

This makes me wonder how much the encouragement of binge drinking plays into the wider trend of social atomization. People are being pushed into very narrow windows of acceptable socialization.

During the day, people are encouraged not to talk to each other in public through fearmongering about talking to strangers, kidnappers, murderers, and potential rapists. Ridiculous rape stats like 1 in 4 are pushed so that men and women are terrified of normal socialization in the workplace or in public.

People are forced into social media for connection and attention, where their communications can be permanently recorded. The recordings of their interactions can be used as leverage against them in employment or social situations. This makes socialization much more controlled, encouraging people to lie and act fake to avoid being ostracized. This makes the act of socializing with others more mentally taxing, and gives it a more artificial feel, discouraging people to form connections with each other. The only comfort provided is by becoming part of a tribe for a sense of community. Perhaps that explains the hivemind aspect of SJWs, who will allow their tribal emotions to overcome all sense of morality or logic. Further, socialization online has been reduced to attention whoring with likes, notifications, and pop ups, transforming socialization from the building of connections between humans into a hedonistic dopamine rush.

The only popular social environment where people are allowed to gather is in bars. In order to overcome the fears associated with socialization in person, people are encouraged to get absolutely shitfaced in order to talk to each other, let alone hook up. This often leads to regretful nights, reinforcing negative emotions about socialization. If done often enough, it screws with normal dopamine and serotonin function, which could lead to depression and make healthy socialization even more difficult. Now that I think of it, it's amazing really how polarized the idea of socialization is in our culture. If you're in public or using transportation, you're expected to be dead silent. If you're using twitter or facebook, you're expected to toe the party line and you'll be seen as a total asshole if you drop some facts that don't fit the narrative. The only place most people meet up in public is in a bar, where conversation proceeds only in an altered mental state.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I thought Valentine's point tied in with Roosh's recent observations on the intentional atomization of society. Lately I've been noticing a growing awareness of the connections between different aspects of modern society. I'm happy to see this awareness is spreading, and allowing those in our community to recognize destructive behavior and attitudes. I wonder how far down the rabbit hole goes. Thoughts?

It seems to me that drinking goes totally against the idea of self improvement. It´s a short cut it´s bad in the long run. There are so many alcohol addicts around. Many of them appear to me like zombies.

I think alcohol was necassary for folks like Russians and Mongols who lived in brutally cold climates. But the price for it is that ones system comes out of balance. You may become "stoic" and "masculine" but your emotions are kind of dead.

When drunk people are "funny". It does feel fake and unnatural and primitive.

Like China could not handle opium I think men can not handle alcohol. But it´s good for some businessmen.

Lesson one in the bartender class (credit to King of Queens): A depressed customer is the best customer.
11-26-2015 09:31 AM
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Post: #6
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
I see so many myths here about the usefluness of alcahol. I call bulshit on those of you who say alcahol was used as a tradition and social lubricant since stone age.

Rather it would be more correct to say that alcahol was used as a separator between a slave class and ruling class, since the dawn of time.

Spartians made their slaves to drink and abstained themselves and went to vigorous training instead. That was to opress a slave rebellion anytime since slaves outnumbered citizens by a huge factor.

Russians and drinking has nothing to do with climate. Russians were not drinking a lot since before Peter "the Great" made them to, precisely because he hated his own not westenized people. (he was bought up in west) and made a slave class out of them.

Even today - what is difference between a manual labour worker and intellectual worker? It's drinking. I don't know how it is in USA but here in eastern europe every construnction worker, every plumber, every electrician, every welder drinks and smokes heavily and lacks a college degree. Their bosses with college degrees and cushy office jobs drink much much less and are much less likely to smoke.

Alcahol makes people sexually loose so they copulate without restraint. This goes against the ideas of nobility and conscious partner choosing which is extreamly imoportant for aristocrats to manitain power within their families. Established aristocrats want to prevent simple folk from creating new proud bloodlines so let them drink and live in bastardy and stupor.

It's obvoius for me alcahol is a thing for slaves tolerated and prohibited for the very reason of creating a slave caste peacefully. Without alcahol we would have to fight much more often to determine who is going to be master and who is going to be a slave.

If you drink you give up power. This is btw why drinking people mistrust those who are abstinent. The blood wedding from game of thrones is a good example of this.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2015 10:29 AM by Mage.)
11-26-2015 10:15 AM
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thoughtgypsy Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
(11-26-2015 10:15 AM)Mage Wrote:  I see so many myths here about the usefluness of alcahol. I call bulshit on those of you who say alcahol was used as a tradition and social lubricant since stone age.

Rather it would be more correct to say that alcahol was used as a separator between a slave class and ruling class, since the dawn of time.

Spartians made their slaves to drink and abstained themselves and went to vigorous training instead. That was to opress a slave rebellion anytime since slaves outnumbered citizens by a huge factor.

Russians and drinking has nothing to do with climate. Russians were not drinking a lot since before Peter "the Great" made them to precisely because he hated his own not westenized people. (he was bought up in west) and made a sleve class out of them.

Even today - what is difference between a manual labour worker and intellectual worker? It's drinking. I don't know how it is in USA but here in eastern europe every construnction worker, every plumber, every electrician, every welder drinks and smokes heavily and lacks a college degree. Their bosses with college degrees and cushy office jobs drink much much less and are much less likely to smoke.

Alcahol makes people sexually loose so they copulate without restraint. This goes against the ideas of nobility and conscious partner choosing which is extreamly imortand for aristocrats to manitain power within their families.

It's obvoius for me alcahol is a thing for slaves tolerated and prohibited for the very reason of creating a slave caste peacefully. Without alcahol we would have to fight much more often to determine who is going to be master and who is going to be a slave.

Another explanation is that lower classes and upper classes often have different levels of impulse control. Alcohol is a drug, and over time can lead to addiction. People who are drug addicts tend to have a higher time preference and impulsive histories even before they become addicts. Throughout history, I think this was the main reason for alcoholism, and the encouragement of binge drinking by different classes was a smaller influence.

I'm not sure it's still like that though. A lot of people who are middle or upper middle class seem to be binge drinking more and more. Growing up and even today it seems like binge drinking or getting fucked up is glorified in music and movies. Movies like animal house, van wilder, how high, beerfest, the hangover, etc. Music, especially Rap/R&B/Pop where getting hammered in the club is sold as cool over and over. College parties, frats, house parties, drinking games, bacardi commercials. Even far into adulthood (30+), people still go to the bar to get hammered. All of that may be looking too far into it, and could be true for other generations, but what seems different is the necessity of alcohol in social situations. If you're not drinking, it makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
11-26-2015 10:37 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
I always wondered how does alcohol affect someone who is a people pleaser/nice guy with a lot of negative thought patterns. Would they turn into a dick and spill out all that negativity?
06-03-2019 05:40 PM
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Dr. Howard Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
Church is a great way around both of these. It provides a cover for nearly any in person social gathering as 'fellowship' and in those denominations that don't totally abstain from alcohol getting drunk is frowned upon.

No wonder the overlords despite it so much.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
06-03-2019 06:09 PM
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nek Offline
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RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
(06-03-2019 05:40 PM)extremely bainful Wrote:  I always wondered how does alcohol affect someone who is a people pleaser/nice guy with a lot of negative thought patterns. Would they turn into a dick and spill out all that negativity?

Yes. Alcohol exacerbates any underlying issues you have.

Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
06-03-2019 07:29 PM
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VNvet Away
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RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
(11-26-2015 10:37 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  A lot of people who are middle or upper middle class seem to be binge drinking more and more.

Those are modern day slave classes.

Edit: Woops. Didn't see that this was a necrobump and that post was from 2015.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019 08:38 PM by VNvet.)
06-03-2019 08:37 PM
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nek Offline
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RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
(06-03-2019 08:37 PM)VNvet Wrote:  
(11-26-2015 10:37 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  A lot of people who are middle or upper middle class seem to be binge drinking more and more.

Those are modern day slave classes.

Most people derive their sense of purpose from struggle brought about by external factors that they need to overcome. For people in this demographic, going to work in the morning is about the only struggle you have. As a result, there's an inherent aimlessness that I think poisons the soul a bit. The trick - and it's a difficult one - is to find that challenge elsewhere in life. A whole generation before us aimed to make our lives easier, and they did, but that doesn't mean our lives are better, because they're not. The comfort is what's killing our spirit, and the alcohol simply helps with the pain.

Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
06-03-2019 08:42 PM
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AlwaysTired Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
Wow, powerful statement OP
06-03-2019 09:01 PM
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RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
Dutch courage is just a loan from alcohol but you’ll repay it with usury. If you borrow on a long enough timeline, the social bankruptcy is the anxiety it will leave you with.

It’s the same with hydration. The first one or two crisp beers is refreshing as they hydrate but they take more water out the other end. So the drinker borrows more water with a relaxing buzz at usury. Every drinker knows what happens when he breaks the seal. This is why a man who can sink 15 pints of beer would feel like he was drowning if he drank 15 pints of water.

It’s the same thing that happens with credit cards. Despite feeling richer with the loan the actual thing that’s happened is that the borrower’s net worth has declined by the principal and the compound usury. This affects cash-flow so the thirst for more borrowing increases.

It’s a profound revelation.

Don't spend all your energy on sex and all your money on women; they have destroyed kings. (Proverbs 31:3 GNB)
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2019 02:27 PM by N°6.)
07-13-2019 02:20 PM
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RE: Alcohol and Social Atomization
Recent few hours I was thinking about this and I opened my laptop and just ran to this thread.
Actually, I was thinking about this recent period of my life. Almost everybody around is addicted to alcohol (more or less, including friends and parents) and I am something between. I stayed away from alcohol for 5 months after new year and it made me think a lot. During this period, I was really commited to one goal. After 5 months I didn´t have the goal anymore and I decided to go drinking on that weekend.
I told myself I can afford to go drinking next few weekends, because I need to relax after months of hard work, I will have holidays, there will be high school meeting,...
Last Saturday was 7th weekend I drinked. Now I have free Satuday night in front of myself and I must admit I struggle. I know I can´t drink today, because the desire to go drink inside me it too strong.

It´s actually pretty interesting to study my own mind. I am not saying I am addicted and I can´t do anything with that after few weeks, but I definitely feel some kind of pressure in my mind. Also, first evening after those months I had only small amount of beers and didn´t enjoy it at all, while last alcohol night I mixed beer, vodka and redbull and at 8 am I was angry, that nobody wanted continue to drink with me.

Definitely thinking about starting some kind of "alcohol awareness" thread.
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2019 02:44 PM by tomzestatlu.)
07-13-2019 02:42 PM
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