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Poll: How much is enough to never work again?
40,000 a year (1,000,000)
80,000 a year (2,000,000)
120,000 a year (3,000,000)
160,000 a year (4,000,000)
200,000 a year (5,000,000)
240,000 a year (6,000,000)
280,000 a year (7,000,000)
320,000 a year (8,000,000)
more than 8,000,000
I would never stop working at any amount
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Investing How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
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VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Offline
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Post: #1
Lightbulb How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
As a general rule of thumb, if your money is professionally invested in a mixture of bonds, equities, index funds and the like, you can safely spend 4% per year, account for inflation and taxes, and never go broke.

So, 40,000 per million.

At what point would you never work again?

How would you spend your time?

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
01-30-2016 02:38 AM
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Patriarch Offline
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Post: #2
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
Honestly I'd be happy living off of 40k per year, but to avoid catastrophe if and when shit hits the fan, I think you'd want a bigger safety net.

Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.
01-30-2016 02:51 AM
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weambulance Offline
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Post: #3
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
Well, I picked 80k because I could do pretty much whatever I wanted (given my interests) at that income. I'm sure I'd still work, just purely for me, not other people.

At 40k, though, I would spend the vast majority of my time working on my own projects. I'd occasionally pick up a project from someone else when I needed to fund something that didn't fit my budget.
01-30-2016 03:46 AM
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Saweeep Offline
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Post: #4
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
(01-30-2016 02:51 AM)Sweet Pea Wrote:  Honestly I'd be happy living off of 40k per year, but to avoid catastrophe if and when shit hits the fan, I think you'd want a bigger safety net.

The capital is a decent safety net.
01-30-2016 04:34 AM
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malakaix Offline
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Post: #5
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
To quit work forever? 80k.

Realistically though, I would be more then happy to manage on 20,000 and work-part time in a lower CoL country.
01-30-2016 09:18 AM
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carbassboy Offline
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Post: #6
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
Probably $80K or $120K.
01-30-2016 10:50 AM
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Sigma Offline
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Post: #7
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
I would never quit working.

I did a mini retirement a few years back when I was making around 300,000 a year but it honestly got boring. I had money but everything got old. Friday night meant nothing since everyday was a Saturday for me. Shopping got dull because at a certain point there really wasn't anything I wanted. Not because I had everything but it just didn't mean much when I could walk into a store and just buy the thing. I couldn't even enjoy doing shit with friends because they had to work, spend time with family, etc.

I'm sure there are guys out there who can be content enjoying a work free life. But me personally, as ironic as it is, I don't have the self discipline to not work. I need somewhere to go and be productive. If left to my own devices I will pretty much live like a vampire; stay up all night and sleep all day.

I've enjoyed fine dining all over the world, from the French Laundry in Yountville to Sukiyabashi Jiro in Tokyo but hands down the best meal I've had was when I was 17 years old, eating a ham and cheese sandwich on a crate after working 11 hours at the fish processing plant.

Maybe one day I'll be able to throw myself into my hobbies and enjoy life that way but right now when I don't work I can't shake the feeling that I'm being lazy.
01-30-2016 11:27 AM
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Ensam Offline
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Post: #8
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
I'd always be doing something.

Having a nest egg which provides enough passive income to live off of just provides security to go off and try less obviously lucrative ventures.

That said, I could (and have) lived a great lifestyle with 20-30k of passive income, so somewhere between 500-750k would be enough of a fuck you fund for me to go off and do my own thing. The real issue is future plans: I want to eventually buy a house, start a family, etc. Those costs are hard to plan for so until I know what my lifestyle in my 40s-50s and beyond is likely going to be I'm going to keep plugging away.
01-30-2016 11:33 AM
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Que enspastic Offline
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Post: #9
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
$40k and move to Bangkok. Easy
01-30-2016 12:26 PM
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Brodiaga Offline
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RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
40K/year adjusted for future inflation is more than enough to stop working and move to SEA.

Even 20K/year is enough to move there and start own "lifestyle business".
01-30-2016 12:42 PM
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VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Offline
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Post: #11
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
Just to be clear, not working does NOT mean being idle. It can mean whatever you want it to mean.

IMHO, it is pretty fucking sweet as long as you don't fall into the trap of alcohol/drugs, eat as healthy as possible, exercise, wake up early, don't go to sleep late, and challenge yourself to take up new hobbies.

My latest are skydiving lessons (going to get certified so I can jump solo) and guitar.

I'm thinking maybe a pilot's license in the near future.

I also fill my time with a professional photography course, some related photo essays, and lots of reading.

I highly doubt I will ever work again.

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2016 01:32 PM by VolandoVengoVolandoVoy.)
01-30-2016 01:31 PM
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Teutatis Offline
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Post: #12
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
I voted for never stop working, and I don't think any amount is ever enough really, but then again I'm not rich so I don't know how I would feel about it if I was indeed wealthy. I still think I'd always want more though.
01-30-2016 01:50 PM
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The Black Knight Offline
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Post: #13
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
First, I'm going to assume for my example this is net post-tax income (so the base capital amount would need to change a bit).

In the US or any country with similar expenses:

I would say 120k. This covers rent in even the most expensive cities with enough to eat out, travel overseas modestly (once a month for two weeks if desired), and have enough extra income to make sizable investments to grow my bank account and/or splurge on a serious luxury item/event each year. Or if you wanted to be a brave soul, you could use the extra money to fund the expenses necessary to have a family in a modern country.

1. NYC/expensive city rental expenses: $3.5k month = $42,000/year
2. Food/Eating out: = $1000/month = $12,000/year
3. Travel/2 weeks per month = 2k month = 24,000/year
4. Health Insurance/basic living essentials = 8,000/year

So, $42,000 + $12,000 + $24,000 + $8,000 = $86,000/year

$120,000 - $86,000 = $34,000 <----- Leftover do whatever the fuck ever money.

Now, keep in mind that this is worse case scenario. I'm living in a very expensive city, eating out all the time, and traveling spending 2k a month every month. I could just as easily live in a cheaper part of a modern country, eat out less, and travel less and bank way more money. But even in the worse case, I still have 34k leftover to do whatever the fuck I feel like it; which most of would probably go into investments to help the base fund grow to combat any inflation.

If needed, I can live in most parts of the US on about 20-25k/year pretty comfortably (all basics covered) but its a very spartan lifestyle with almost no traveling or way to grow net worth. The aforementioned 120k allows one to live VERY good in the most expensive locations, travel, AND still grow net worth without working.

2nd/3rd world:

Probably 60k or whatever is necessary to replicate the 120k/USA lifestyle mentioned above. I have no experience living in the 2nd/3rd world but having read a ton about peoples travel experiences on RVF, 5k/month apparently goes a long way in living very well in these countries and in many respects, one often lives better on 60k in these countries vs 120k in the US/modern countries.

Ideally, I have 120k/year to work with in a 2nd/3rd world country and can live like a king.

For me at least, anything more than 120k/60k really doesn't provide much extra value. A slightly bigger house? A slightly better car? Who cares.

You have to get near 50 million and up net worths to see any really significant changes: Running for big political offices without outside money, private jets, yachts, massive estates, ultra first class everything across the board. I'm talking the amount of money where you go from being just a very well off upper class guy to a titan. But getting to that level usually involves massive sacrifices, connections, a good starting position, and lots of luck. If it happens, that's great. But I'm not going to waste years or decades chasing what is largely a phantom.

I much rather be 35 living on 60k/year (or whatever 120k USA equivalent is) surrounded by hot latinas and maybe even starting a family somewhere in South America or doing whatever I want pursuing a purpose vs being 55 but having 3.5 million/year but having lost a lot of younger years to simply chasing money.

The following video is very relevant in light of what Sigma said about how retirement/having a lot of money can feel boring and meaningless. It's President Nixon post-resignation talking about life and living one with a purpose. I've posted it before. It's real talk and I think is something everyone reading this thread should watch and keep in mind when pursing passive income goals. In that, if and when you make it to your goal of not needing to work anymore: what's next? What will the next fight be?

Again, it's something I feel every man here should always be thinking about prior to reaching their passive income objectives.



(This post was last modified: 01-30-2016 03:28 PM by The Black Knight.)
01-30-2016 03:09 PM
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RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
2010 was when my online business started becoming successful. As the income continued to grow, the more combative I became with my overly authoritative she-boss. One day I decided that she had said something that crossed the line, and I was ready to quit.

After she had sent me an email explaining that I had worked at the firm for 3 years, and should have known something, I walked to the doorway of her office and asked her if she was insulting my intelligence in an aggravated tone. She in return told me to have a seat in her office and shut the door behind me, then went utterly batshit crazy. Just imagine a very pregnant woman who was about to pop taking every ill she was having out on you, yelling over a span of 5 minutes at the top of her lungs. I'm not even sure why she told me to close the door haha she was so loud that the door being shut would have made no difference !

A couple weeks later, I hear from one of the partners of the law firm's daughter that her father had told her that my boss went into a partner/manager meeting and tried to get me fired by calling me crazy and explained that after having heard bits and pieces of me talking about Modern Warfare 3, she said that she was nervous about the possibility that I could walk into the office and start shooting up the place. I made sure that I had gotten the conversation documented within text messages, went to an attorney and sued the law firm and my former boss.

We sued for defamation of character, hostile work environment, etc.. and they ended up settling out of court for 35k. So with the online income, and the 35k, I decided to go and checkout some of the exotic women of the world.

The income over the years hasn't been consistent, but I have always managed to pay my bills. Travel photography is my hobby and Ukrainian women are my passion.

This is my 2nd post here folks. Nice too meet you all. I look forward to making some new friends )) Yes, the party in my hometown has completely died, and I'm just not ready to settle down and take on another big responsibility such as 9-5, kids, etc.. anytime soon. And Eastern Europe's culture has allowed me to do just that.. stall
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2016 01:45 AM by LovePotionNo.9.)
01-31-2016 01:40 AM
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VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Offline
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RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
(01-31-2016 01:40 AM)LovePotionNo.9 Wrote:  2010 was when my online business started becoming successful. As the income continued to grow, the more combative I became with my overly authoritative she-boss. One day I decided that she had said something that crossed the line, and I was ready to quit.

After she had sent me an email explaining that I had worked at the firm for 3 years, and should have known something, I walked to the doorway of her office and asked her if she was insulting my intelligence in an aggravated tone. She in return told me to have a seat in her office and shut the door behind me, then went utterly batshit crazy. Just imagine a very pregnant woman who was about to pop taking every ill she was having out on you, yelling over a span of 5 minutes at the top of her lungs. I'm not even sure why she told me to close the door haha she was so loud that the door being shut would have made no difference !

A couple weeks later, I hear from one of the partners of the law firm's daughter that her father had told her that my boss went into a partner/manager meeting and tried to get me fired by calling me crazy and explained that after having heard bits and pieces of me talking about Modern Warfare 3, she said that she was nervous about the possibility that I could walk into the office and start shooting up the place. I made sure that I had gotten the conversation documented within text messages, went to an attorney and sued the law firm and my former boss.

We sued for defamation of character, hostile work environment, etc.. and they ended up settling out of court for 35k. So with the online income, and the 35k, I decided to go and checkout some of the exotic women of the world.

The income over the years hasn't been consistent, but I have always managed to pay my bills. Travel photography is my hobby and Ukrainian women are my passion.

This is my 2nd post here folks. Nice too meet you all. I look forward to making some new friends )) Yes, the party in my hometown has completely died, and I'm just not ready to settle down and take on another big responsibility such as 9-5, kids, etc.. anytime soon. And Eastern Europe's culture has allowed me to do just that.. stall

Nice. Film, dslr, point & shoot?

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
01-31-2016 02:43 AM
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LovePotionNo.9 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
(01-31-2016 02:43 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  Nice. Film, dslr, point & shoot?

Neither, mirrorless. Specifically, Sony A7R ii with 12mm Voigtlander, 90mm Lecia, and Nikon 28-300. Good thing about this camera, is that you can buy adapters to fit any lens you wish. The only thing bad about it is that you have to carry around many batteries, but other than that, the go to camera these days
01-31-2016 02:49 AM
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RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
Sample:

   
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2016 03:17 AM by LovePotionNo.9.)
01-31-2016 02:53 AM
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VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Offline
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Post: #18
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
(01-30-2016 03:09 PM)The Black Knight Wrote:  First, I'm going to assume for my example this is net post-tax income (so the base capital amount would need to change a bit).

In the US or any country with similar expenses:

I would say 120k. This covers rent in even the most expensive cities with enough to eat out, travel overseas modestly (once a month for two weeks if desired), and have enough extra income to make sizable investments to grow my bank account and/or splurge on a serious luxury item/event each year. Or if you wanted to be a brave soul, you could use the extra money to fund the expenses necessary to have a family in a modern country.

1. NYC/expensive city rental expenses: $3.5k month = $42,000/year
2. Food/Eating out: = $1000/month = $12,000/year
3. Travel/2 weeks per month = 2k month = 24,000/year
4. Health Insurance/basic living essentials = 8,000/year

So, $42,000 + $12,000 + $24,000 + $8,000 = $86,000/year

$120,000 - $86,000 = $34,000 <----- Leftover do whatever the fuck ever money.

Now, keep in mind that this is worse case scenario. I'm living in a very expensive city, eating out all the time, and traveling spending 2k a month every month. I could just as easily live in a cheaper part of a modern country, eat out less, and travel less and bank way more money. But even in the worse case, I still have 34k leftover to do whatever the fuck I feel like it; which most of would probably go into investments to help the base fund grow to combat any inflation.

If needed, I can live in most parts of the US on about 20-25k/year pretty comfortably (all basics covered) but its a very spartan lifestyle with almost no traveling or way to grow net worth. The aforementioned 120k allows one to live VERY good in the most expensive locations, travel, AND still grow net worth without working.

2nd/3rd world:

Probably 60k or whatever is necessary to replicate the 120k/USA lifestyle mentioned above. I have no experience living in the 2nd/3rd world but having read a ton about peoples travel experiences on RVF, 5k/month apparently goes a long way in living very well in these countries and in many respects, one often lives better on 60k in these countries vs 120k in the US/modern countries.

Ideally, I have 120k/year to work with in a 2nd/3rd world country and can live like a king.

For me at least, anything more than 120k/60k really doesn't provide much extra value. A slightly bigger house? A slightly better car? Who cares.

You have to get near 50 million and up net worths to see any really significant changes: Running for big political offices without outside money, private jets, yachts, massive estates, ultra first class everything across the board. I'm talking the amount of money where you go from being just a very well off upper class guy to a titan. But getting to that level usually involves massive sacrifices, connections, a good starting position, and lots of luck. If it happens, that's great. But I'm not going to waste years or decades chasing what is largely a phantom.

I much rather be 35 living on 60k/year (or whatever 120k USA equivalent is) surrounded by hot latinas and maybe even starting a family somewhere in South America or doing whatever I want pursuing a purpose vs being 55 but having 3.5 million/year but having lost a lot of younger years to simply chasing money.

The following video is very relevant in light of what Sigma said about how retirement/having a lot of money can feel boring and meaningless. It's President Nixon post-resignation talking about life and living one with a purpose. I've posted it before. It's real talk and I think is something everyone reading this thread should watch and keep in mind when pursing passive income goals. In that, if and when you make it to your goal of not needing to work anymore: what's next? What will the next fight be?

Again, it's something I feel every man here should always be thinking about prior to reaching their passive income objectives.




Thank you for that video.

Along with my morning green tea, I just watched it and carefully considered it.

Nixon refers to the "saddest people" being those who are idly rich at water holes like Newport/Florida/etc.

Now, in the scenario Nixon describes: you are financially free, and choose to do nothing but play golf and bridge, and you drink too much, and you only hang out with people who do the same, well then, life would probably suck.

It's not surprising to me that Nixon would blame his malaise on that instead of looking in the mirror.

There is no magic fulfillment to be gained from working 80 hours in an office or hospital. And if you do mental gymnastics to convince yourself of some noble cause, it is likely delusion. Unless you like what you do, it is meaningless. All the praise from others can't make up for a gnawing inner dissatisfaction.

A free life doesn't suck if you make challenges for yourself, if you seek out new sensations and experiences. It really depends on how you steer your ship.

For example, consider my Saturday, which compared to most days for me, was actually low activity and boring, so it is a fair example. I didn't do anything special like sky diving or renting a fast car. I spent only a modest amount of money. I had no commitments like a hiking trip, my photography class, exercise session, or anything else. When I woke up I didn't have a plan.

Here was my day yesterday: wake up well rested in Seville (after having seen a world class violinist the night before), one of the world's most culturally rich and livable cities. Take a long 2 hour walk in a park and along the river (during my walk I made friends with a couple who had an adorable puppy, and also with a photographer who was shooting a couple of models - I love to talk to people). Stop at a wonderful market. Bought fresh vegetables for salad, as well as fresh high quality organic steak. Went home, made a great meal, enjoyed it slowly while listening to a CD I downloaded of the violinist I saw the night before.

After lunch and a siesta I ended up going to a Flamenco fashion show/new collection event. The models were absolutely stunning and nearly as tall as I am. I got the business cards, names, and numbers of the designer and the head of the model agency there. I am going to use some social circle game to get closer to the models.

After that I went home and relaxed. Did some reading. Talked to parents, etc. Then I cooked a nice dinner, no hurry at all.

Then I went out to a classic music concert, was fun. Halfway through I was in the mood for something younger and more energetic so I started messaging friends. One of them was at a concert with a Red Hot Chili Peppers cover band.

I went and it was awesome. A bit loud, but fun. Had fun with friends, ended up with a 7 who was almost 15 years younger than me (girlfriend is away this weekend).

No doubt life sucked for Nixon. He was a social pariah after resigning the presidency. He had no game. He had no access to RVF.

He reminds me of my uncle, a famous man who founded a business and worked insane hours his whole life. He is in his mid 70s and looks like is 100 years old. Never gave off a happy vibe when I would see him at family events. When I asked him why he chose his particular field, he said he did it in order to do something respectable.

Fuck that.

You know whose respect I want?

My own.

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
01-31-2016 03:22 AM
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VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Offline
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Post: #19
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
(01-31-2016 02:49 AM)LovePotionNo.9 Wrote:  
(01-31-2016 02:43 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  Nice. Film, dslr, point & shoot?

Neither, mirrorless. Specifically, Sony A7R ii with 12mm Voigtlander, 90mm Lecia, and Nikon 28-300. Good thing about this camera, is that you can buy adapters to fit any lens you wish. The only thing bad about it is that you have to carry around many batteries, but other than that, the go to camera these days


Nice. How has that been? Did you have a larger DSLR before? I use a D750 with the Nikon 28-300. I'm thinking of getting a fancy f1.4 85mm prime for portraits.

The only problem is that I lack the spontaneity I used to have with my old point and shoot camera. It is a serious fucking hassle to lug around my camera and most of the time I don't feel like it.

Don't get me wrong, when I have a definite project or activity in mind, the camera gives extraordinary performance, and is well worth it...but definitely not ideal for spontaneous or urban/street photography. I'm also stubborn and haven't quite mastered a lot of the manual settings and light metering, so that probably contributes to my lack of enthusiasm.

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2016 03:39 AM by VolandoVengoVolandoVoy.)
01-31-2016 03:37 AM
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Post: #20
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
OP how much is enough for you?

My book about my almost deadly experience in DR.

http://www.amazon.com/How-outsmarted-psy...C7T99YZH7T
01-31-2016 03:58 AM
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Post: #21
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
As I mention in my relo thread (see my signature), I live off $1,500 per month in passive income here in Poland (which Roosh mentioned was his level of expense living here).

I almost always eat in, prefer daygame over nightgame, and don't travel much, but I'm definitely paying about double what I should on rent (about $700-$900 per month for an entire apartment) by going through AirBnB (which I prefer for now due to the flexibility).

All of my money is basically in worldwide index funds, so I only needed $450,000 to do this.

Despite not needing to work though, I have done some work on Amazon Mechanical Turk, mostly as a way of feeling productive. The pay isn't great, but the flexibility is. I can pretty much start and stop working on demand, to the minute.
01-31-2016 04:31 AM
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VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Offline
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Post: #22
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
(01-31-2016 03:58 AM)pitt Wrote:  OP how much is enough for you?

Probably option 2, 2MM/80,000 a year. I have access to significantly more at this point, and honestly I don't need it at all, even living well. I think the average income, for people who have a job (there is 30% unemployment) in Seville is something like 1200 euros a month. I spend about 4 or 5 times that in a typical month. I've been considering leasing/renting a nice car, that and parking might be 1k a month more. Being a baller is cheap here. At 5 or 6k euro a month for a single guy you are ahead of everyone except famous people and football stars.

The only way I could see myself spending more in Seville is if I started buying Veblen goods in a foolish attempt to impress others.

Maybe if moved back to NYC or another major international city with high living costs.

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2016 04:36 AM by VolandoVengoVolandoVoy.)
01-31-2016 04:35 AM
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Post: #23
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
This is such a difficult question. I pondered it for ages. In the end I just guessed an amount, I.e. at that amount I'd probably be demotivated from working.

But you just have no idea. If I'd had that money now I'd complete my travel, and make my decisions. After that, who knows? Would I want to house up with one shiny girl or have a harem of concubines somewhere? Would I want to have a kindergarten worth of kids or decide one is enough after the first one? What would the price index be in the country I chose? Would I get a taste for having maids and assistants etc just do everything? Would I have to spend huge cash to raise my rank to get the kind of woman or women I want? Would I want to send kids to expensive schools? Who can really know.

It's a good thought experiment, but really the only practical measure is to make as much money as you can.
01-31-2016 04:59 AM
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pitt Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
(01-31-2016 04:35 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  
(01-31-2016 03:58 AM)pitt Wrote:  OP how much is enough for you?

Probably option 2, 2MM/80,000 a year. I have access to significantly more at this point, and honestly I don't need it at all, even living well. I think the average income, for people who have a job (there is 30% unemployment) in Seville is something like 1200 euros a month. I spend about 4 or 5 times that in a typical month. I've been considering leasing/renting a nice car, that and parking might be 1k a month more. Being a baller is cheap here. At 5 or 6k euro a month for a single guy you are ahead of everyone except famous people and football stars.

The only way I could see myself spending more in Seville is if I started buying Veblen goods in a foolish attempt to impress others.

Maybe if moved back to NYC or another major international city with high living costs.

That is really good money that you are currently making. 30% unemployment rate? Jesus.

Have you driven expensive cars there before? I am wondering how local girls respond to guys who are doing really well financially.

My book about my almost deadly experience in DR.

http://www.amazon.com/How-outsmarted-psy...C7T99YZH7T
01-31-2016 05:31 AM
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The Black Knight Offline
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Post: #25
RE: How much is enough? At what passive income level would you stop working?
(01-31-2016 03:22 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:09 PM)The Black Knight Wrote:  First, I'm going to assume for my example this is net post-tax income (so the base capital amount would need to change a bit).

In the US or any country with similar expenses:

I would say 120k. This covers rent in even the most expensive cities with enough to eat out, travel overseas modestly (once a month for two weeks if desired), and have enough extra income to make sizable investments to grow my bank account and/or splurge on a serious luxury item/event each year. Or if you wanted to be a brave soul, you could use the extra money to fund the expenses necessary to have a family in a modern country.

1. NYC/expensive city rental expenses: $3.5k month = $42,000/year
2. Food/Eating out: = $1000/month = $12,000/year
3. Travel/2 weeks per month = 2k month = 24,000/year
4. Health Insurance/basic living essentials = 8,000/year

So, $42,000 + $12,000 + $24,000 + $8,000 = $86,000/year

$120,000 - $86,000 = $34,000 <----- Leftover do whatever the fuck ever money.

Now, keep in mind that this is worse case scenario. I'm living in a very expensive city, eating out all the time, and traveling spending 2k a month every month. I could just as easily live in a cheaper part of a modern country, eat out less, and travel less and bank way more money. But even in the worse case, I still have 34k leftover to do whatever the fuck I feel like it; which most of would probably go into investments to help the base fund grow to combat any inflation.

If needed, I can live in most parts of the US on about 20-25k/year pretty comfortably (all basics covered) but its a very spartan lifestyle with almost no traveling or way to grow net worth. The aforementioned 120k allows one to live VERY good in the most expensive locations, travel, AND still grow net worth without working.

2nd/3rd world:

Probably 60k or whatever is necessary to replicate the 120k/USA lifestyle mentioned above. I have no experience living in the 2nd/3rd world but having read a ton about peoples travel experiences on RVF, 5k/month apparently goes a long way in living very well in these countries and in many respects, one often lives better on 60k in these countries vs 120k in the US/modern countries.

Ideally, I have 120k/year to work with in a 2nd/3rd world country and can live like a king.

For me at least, anything more than 120k/60k really doesn't provide much extra value. A slightly bigger house? A slightly better car? Who cares.

You have to get near 50 million and up net worths to see any really significant changes: Running for big political offices without outside money, private jets, yachts, massive estates, ultra first class everything across the board. I'm talking the amount of money where you go from being just a very well off upper class guy to a titan. But getting to that level usually involves massive sacrifices, connections, a good starting position, and lots of luck. If it happens, that's great. But I'm not going to waste years or decades chasing what is largely a phantom.

I much rather be 35 living on 60k/year (or whatever 120k USA equivalent is) surrounded by hot latinas and maybe even starting a family somewhere in South America or doing whatever I want pursuing a purpose vs being 55 but having 3.5 million/year but having lost a lot of younger years to simply chasing money.

The following video is very relevant in light of what Sigma said about how retirement/having a lot of money can feel boring and meaningless. It's President Nixon post-resignation talking about life and living one with a purpose. I've posted it before. It's real talk and I think is something everyone reading this thread should watch and keep in mind when pursing passive income goals. In that, if and when you make it to your goal of not needing to work anymore: what's next? What will the next fight be?

Again, it's something I feel every man here should always be thinking about prior to reaching their passive income objectives.




Thank you for that video.

Along with my morning green tea, I just watched it and carefully considered it.

Nixon refers to the "saddest people" being those who are idly rich at water holes like Newport/Florida/etc.

Now, in the scenario Nixon describes: you are financially free, and choose to do nothing but play golf and bridge, and you drink too much, and you only hang out with people who do the same, well then, life would probably suck.

It's not surprising to me that Nixon would blame his malaise on that instead of looking in the mirror.

There is no magic fulfillment to be gained from working 80 hours in an office or hospital. And if you do mental gymnastics to convince yourself of some noble cause, it is likely delusion. Unless you like what you do, it is meaningless. All the praise from others can't make up for a gnawing inner dissatisfaction.

A free life doesn't suck if you make challenges for yourself, if you seek out new sensations and experiences. It really depends on how you steer your ship.

For example, consider my Saturday, which compared to most days for me, was actually low activity and boring, so it is a fair example. I didn't do anything special like sky diving or renting a fast car. I spent only a modest amount of money. I had no commitments like a hiking trip, my photography class, exercise session, or anything else. When I woke up I didn't have a plan.

Here was my day yesterday: wake up well rested in Seville (after having seen a world class violinist the night before), one of the world's most culturally rich and livable cities. Take a long 2 hour walk in a park and along the river (during my walk I made friends with a couple who had an adorable puppy, and also with a photographer who was shooting a couple of models - I love to talk to people). Stop at a wonderful market. Bought fresh vegetables for salad, as well as fresh high quality organic steak. Went home, made a great meal, enjoyed it slowly while listening to a CD I downloaded of the violinist I saw the night before.

After lunch and a siesta I ended up going to a Flamenco fashion show/new collection event. The models were absolutely stunning and nearly as tall as I am. I got the business cards, names, and numbers of the designer and the head of the model agency there. I am going to use some social circle game to get closer to the models.

After that I went home and relaxed. Did some reading. Talked to parents, etc. Then I cooked a nice dinner, no hurry at all.

Then I went out to a classic music concert, was fun. Halfway through I was in the mood for something younger and more energetic so I started messaging friends. One of them was at a concert with a Red Hot Chili Peppers cover band.

I went and it was awesome. A bit loud, but fun. Had fun with friends, ended up with a 7 who was almost 15 years younger than me (girlfriend is away this weekend).

No doubt life sucked for Nixon. He was a social pariah after resigning the presidency. He had no game. He had no access to RVF.

He reminds me of my uncle, a famous man who founded a business and worked insane hours his whole life. He is in his mid 70s and looks like is 100 years old. Never gave off a happy vibe when I would see him at family events. When I asked him why he chose his particular field, he said he did it in order to do something respectable.

Fuck that.

You know whose respect I want?

My own.

There is obviously a lot going on internally with Nixon and that impacts his POV but he says the same thing you said: you need to keep challenging yourself in some capacity to feel some sense of fulfillment. That's what I take away from the video at least.

Anyhow, sounds like you are living the dream and the good life in Spain. I am very envious. I haven't been to Spain but its (on paper) one of my top relocation destinations. Relative low cost, first world living standards, good weather, easy language to learn, cheap access to variety of countries to keep things interesting. And I see a lot complaints about how Spanish girls don't give it up easily for ONS's meaning they might actually be LTR material. MAYBE.
01-31-2016 06:06 AM
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