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Libertarian Party discussion
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SeanBateman Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
How is voting for Gary Johnson an example
of cognitive dissonance?
08-08-2016 01:30 PM
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SeanBateman Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Is there a Gary Johnson thread?
08-08-2016 02:13 PM
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(07-12-2016 11:43 PM)puckerman Wrote:  It looks like the Johnson-Weld ticket will be on the ballot in all 50 states. This is actually the first time for an LP ticket since 1996.

What does this require?
08-11-2016 03:07 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-08-2016 01:30 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  How is voting for Gary Johnson an example
of cognitive dissonance?

Because if Hillary wins she will flood the country with third-worlders who will vote Democrat and give the Dems a permanent super-majority. Libertarians will be forever shut out of politics.

This is an election for libertarians they cannot afford to let go to the Democrat party.

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08-12-2016 11:47 AM
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Slim Shady Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
^ Exactly.

I need to force that into my brother's mind more deliberately.

You don't get there till you get there
08-12-2016 02:39 PM
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puckerman Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-08-2016 02:13 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  Is there a Gary Johnson thread?

Why is a separated thread necessary?
08-13-2016 04:06 PM
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puckerman Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-12-2016 11:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 01:30 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  How is voting for Gary Johnson an example
of cognitive dissonance?

Because if Hillary wins she will flood the country with third-worlders who will vote Democrat and give the Dems a permanent super-majority. Libertarians will be forever shut out of politics.

This is an election for libertarians they cannot afford to let go to the Democrat party.

Apologists for the Red Team have been playing this broken record for 30 years. What has it accomplished?
08-13-2016 04:09 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-13-2016 04:09 PM)puckerman Wrote:  
(08-12-2016 11:47 AM)Samseau Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 01:30 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  How is voting for Gary Johnson an example
of cognitive dissonance?

Because if Hillary wins she will flood the country with third-worlders who will vote Democrat and give the Dems a permanent super-majority. Libertarians will be forever shut out of politics.

This is an election for libertarians they cannot afford to let go to the Democrat party.

Apologists for the Red Team have been playing this broken record for 30 years. What has it accomplished?

Republicans haven't ever done anything about the border. There was never any reason to believe the message before. That's why we fired them all and elected Trump, who takes $0 from special interests and runs the campaign on building a wall.

Not to mention the slew of other negative effects Hillary will have - she'll rig the entire system so bad there will never be another democratic election. Everything will be 100% rigged and for show. Trump can enforce Voter ID laws and crackdown on illegal immigration. Pretty much the only thing that could ever result in libertarian officials winning on a National level.

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08-13-2016 05:58 PM
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JacksonRev Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Food for thought:



08-13-2016 06:26 PM
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chicane Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Modern Libertarians don't seem to be very Liberty minded. Instead they are more like a pigeon playing chess.
08-13-2016 09:44 PM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Scorpion had an epic post a while back saying something along the lines of "libertarianism is lack of values, neomasculinity is the set of values we need."

Someone should find it...
08-13-2016 09:51 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Polling has shown that 80% of recent immigrants believe in the need for more government. Without a change in immigration and border control, libertarian policies are a pipe dream.

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et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno
08-13-2016 10:08 PM
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Handsome Creepy Eel Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-13-2016 09:51 PM)redbeard Wrote:  Scorpion had an epic post a while back saying something along the lines of "libertarianism is lack of values, neomasculinity is the set of values we need."

Someone should find it...

One of my favorite posts on the entire forum - here it is:

(05-23-2015 01:34 PM)scorpion Wrote:  
(05-23-2015 12:23 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  All drugs, gay marriage, etc, should be fully legal. Basically, unless you are harming someone else or preventing someone else from exercising/enjoying their own freedom, you should be able to do whatever you want, and government should stay out of the way.

This type of libertarian utopian thinking is utter nonsense. Have fun in your libertarian paradise that inevitably degrades into a complete shithole of debauchery and vice because you reject the idea of imposing societal norms and standards. I'm sure your son will thank you when he is being brainwashed in school to believe that engaging in anal sex with another man is a harmless and normal past time, and your daughter will no doubt be enriched from being told by society that having dozens of sexual partners and multiple abortions in her twenties is no big deal. Or maybe your son winds up believing he's actually a girl, and your daughter mutilates herself with dozens of tattoos and piercings. Hey, they're not hurting anyone, right? It's all good. The fact that Western society thrived when cultural norms were much more conservative and is completely disintegrating in front of our eyes in today's environment of "anything goes" (aka libertarian) social acceptance seems to be completely lost on you. Just a coincidence, right?

Of course, this is the inevitable result of an atheistic worldview that admits no objective morality, no standard for determining right from wrong. With no way of knowing the proper way to live, the atheist-libertarian has no solid ground to stand to determine his own behavior, much less to dictate the behavior of others. So he's forced to simply throw his hands up in the air and say, "Do whatever you want! Just don't hurt me!" Obviously, when looked at in this manner, the cowardice of this philosophy becomes readily apparent. The atheist-libertarian is forced to either join in with the increasingly debaucherous behavior of his society, or withdraw from its corrupting influence. He fights for nothing because he stands for nothing. He just wants to be left alone while society crumbles around him, because in his childish desire to deny God (and thus objective morality) he simultaneously robs himself of the moral and spiritual foundation necessary to oppose the forces of destruction and decay. Thinking himself intellectually powerful for refuting God, he has rendered himself morally impotent, and is thus powerless to oppose the corruption that surrounds him.

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08-14-2016 02:14 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Welcome to libertarianism.

Everyone is living it every day.

They largely continue to opt to support yesterdays arrangement. If they wanted they could pick up a gun and decide "no more".

They don't.
08-14-2016 06:56 AM
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puckerman Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Do all of you Americans who scream about "the border" know anyone who has tried to immigrate to this god-forsaken country legally? I know a lady who spent YEARS trying to get her fiance/husband here legally from Jamaica. She was also scammed by several people who allegedly provided an "easy way" to get a visa. In many cases, he was just trying to get a visa for a short time. But they wouldn't give him one because they feared that he would overstay the visa.

It's also a red herring. More Mexicans are leaving than coming. Who can blame them?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/mo...o-the-u-s/
08-14-2016 10:36 AM
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The Beast1 Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
I know about 60 people who emmigrated legally into America. All have green cards and some even have citizenship. What's your point?

It sounds like your Jamaican folks didn't go the legit route (most likely illegally here anyway). Most people from the 3rd world come here on tourist visas and disappear. I don't blame INS for rejecting their entry.

Shalom Alechem!
08-14-2016 10:44 AM
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LeeEnfield303 Offline
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Post: #117
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Weld is a big-time gun grabber. Fuck that.

Ironic that a "Libertarian" candidate would want everyone's guns.

Лучше поздно, чем никогда

Those that see...will prepare.
08-14-2016 10:46 AM
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LeeEnfield303 Offline
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Post: #118
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-14-2016 10:36 AM)puckerman Wrote:  Do all of you Americans who scream about "the border" know anyone who has tried to immigrate to this god-forsaken country legally? I know a lady who spent YEARS trying to get her fiance/husband here legally from Jamaica. She was also scammed by several people who allegedly provided an "easy way" to get a visa. In many cases, he was just trying to get a visa for a short time. But they wouldn't give him one because they feared that he would overstay the visa.

It's also a red herring. More Mexicans are leaving than coming. Who can blame them?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/mo...o-the-u-s/

If this is a 'godforsaken' country, you are sure welcome to leave any time you like. Who could blame you?

Лучше поздно, чем никогда

Those that see...will prepare.
08-14-2016 10:47 AM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #119
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-14-2016 10:47 AM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  
(08-14-2016 10:36 AM)puckerman Wrote:  Do all of you Americans who scream about "the border" know anyone who has tried to immigrate to this god-forsaken country legally? I know a lady who spent YEARS trying to get her fiance/husband here legally from Jamaica. She was also scammed by several people who allegedly provided an "easy way" to get a visa. In many cases, he was just trying to get a visa for a short time. But they wouldn't give him one because they feared that he would overstay the visa.

It's also a red herring. More Mexicans are leaving than coming. Who can blame them?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/mo...o-the-u-s/

If this is a 'godforsaken' country, you are sure welcome to leave any time you like. Who could blame you?

Yes Puckerman's lack of logic is quite revealing. Never would have guessed. Contradicts himself then appeals to some lame sob story.

Here's a better question for open borders: How is America supposed to fix every shithole in the world? We gonna let everyone in here and destroy 250 years of hard work? Yeah no thanks you can leave if you don't like it. There has to be an orderly processing of new people to the country in order to preserve law, order, and prosperity.

Anyone who disagrees with this isn't a libertarian because they aren't interested in preserving liberty.

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08-14-2016 05:30 PM
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Handsome Creepy Eel Offline
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Post: #120
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-14-2016 10:36 AM)puckerman Wrote:  Do all of you Americans who scream about "the border" know anyone who has tried to immigrate to this god-forsaken country legally? I know a lady who spent YEARS trying to get her fiance/husband here legally from Jamaica. She was also scammed by several people who allegedly provided an "easy way" to get a visa. In many cases, he was just trying to get a visa for a short time. But they wouldn't give him one because they feared that he would overstay the visa.

It's also a red herring. More Mexicans are leaving than coming. Who can blame them?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/mo...o-the-u-s/

That is exactly the point. Can you imagine how someone who has spent 5 years working on documentation and dealing with shitty bureaucracy feels like when someone else just waltzes in and receives everything on a silver platter? And that leads us to the following three questions:

- How does it affect the quality of immigrants to come to USA?
- How does it affect the behavior of immigrants who come to USA?
- How does it affect the overall integrity of the justice and police system?

The answers to those three questions determine whether your country is going to be more like Brazil or more like Singapore.

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08-15-2016 03:19 AM
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puckerman Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-14-2016 05:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(08-14-2016 10:47 AM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  
(08-14-2016 10:36 AM)puckerman Wrote:  Do all of you Americans who scream about "the border" know anyone who has tried to immigrate to this god-forsaken country legally? I know a lady who spent YEARS trying to get her fiance/husband here legally from Jamaica. She was also scammed by several people who allegedly provided an "easy way" to get a visa. In many cases, he was just trying to get a visa for a short time. But they wouldn't give him one because they feared that he would overstay the visa.

It's also a red herring. More Mexicans are leaving than coming. Who can blame them?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/mo...o-the-u-s/

If this is a 'godforsaken' country, you are sure welcome to leave any time you like. Who could blame you?

Yes Puckerman's lack of logic is quite revealing. Never would have guessed. Contradicts himself then appeals to some lame sob story.

Here's a better question for open borders: How is America supposed to fix every shithole in the world? We gonna let everyone in here and destroy 250 years of hard work? Yeah no thanks you can leave if you don't like it. There has to be an orderly processing of new people to the country in order to preserve law, order, and prosperity.

Anyone who disagrees with this isn't a libertarian because they aren't interested in preserving liberty.

There's a good chance I will leave. And people are renouncing American citizenship more than ever.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2...ef9c94a6e6
08-18-2016 10:38 PM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #122
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-18-2016 10:38 PM)puckerman Wrote:  
(08-14-2016 05:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(08-14-2016 10:47 AM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  
(08-14-2016 10:36 AM)puckerman Wrote:  Do all of you Americans who scream about "the border" know anyone who has tried to immigrate to this god-forsaken country legally? I know a lady who spent YEARS trying to get her fiance/husband here legally from Jamaica. She was also scammed by several people who allegedly provided an "easy way" to get a visa. In many cases, he was just trying to get a visa for a short time. But they wouldn't give him one because they feared that he would overstay the visa.

It's also a red herring. More Mexicans are leaving than coming. Who can blame them?

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/mo...o-the-u-s/

If this is a 'godforsaken' country, you are sure welcome to leave any time you like. Who could blame you?

Yes Puckerman's lack of logic is quite revealing. Never would have guessed. Contradicts himself then appeals to some lame sob story.

Here's a better question for open borders: How is America supposed to fix every shithole in the world? We gonna let everyone in here and destroy 250 years of hard work? Yeah no thanks you can leave if you don't like it. There has to be an orderly processing of new people to the country in order to preserve law, order, and prosperity.

Anyone who disagrees with this isn't a libertarian because they aren't interested in preserving liberty.

There's a good chance I will leave. And people are renouncing American citizenship more than ever.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2...ef9c94a6e6

So Libertarians won't vote to save America, and they'll be the first to jump ship after doing nothing to save the country. Great people.

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08-19-2016 01:31 PM
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Post: #123
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-13-2016 09:51 PM)redbeard Wrote:  Scorpion had an epic post a while back saying something along the lines of "libertarianism is lack of values, neomasculinity is the set of values we need."

Someone should find it...

Libertarianism is not a lack of values, it's just a very small set. It's a pretty easy social rule to understand: relate to each other by agreement rather than compulsion. Beyond that, it makes no prescriptions, so "being a libertarian" is a pretty empty thing if that's your main value system, which it almost never is.
08-19-2016 02:53 PM
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Post: #124
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
Phoenix,

Your reply doesn't at all counter-argue what Scorpion said about libertarians, specifically their inability to compel others to follow a specific truth means they always get overrun by more aggressive forces, like Christians or Muslims.
08-21-2016 02:26 AM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #125
RE: Libertarian Party discussion
(08-19-2016 02:53 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  
(08-13-2016 09:51 PM)redbeard Wrote:  Scorpion had an epic post a while back saying something along the lines of "libertarianism is lack of values, neomasculinity is the set of values we need."

Someone should find it...

Libertarianism is not a lack of values, it's just a very small set. It's a pretty easy social rule to understand: relate to each other by agreement rather than compulsion. Beyond that, it makes no prescriptions, so "being a libertarian" is a pretty empty thing if that's your main value system, which it almost never is.

I've heard Tom Woods describe libertarian values as basically living as "do no harm to others" with the nonaggression principle as the fundamental basis.

I've actually made an effort to understand libertarianism better. I started reading some Rothbard and I admit it's pretty interesting. There's a lot of what Rothbard talks about which makes total sense especially with his criticism of modern economics as an academic discipline. He made a sound case against central banking that is very relevant today.

I also listen to Tom Woods who is one of the few libertarians i've seen who can actually debate specific issues in a pretty cogent manner. He's a well spoken Harvard grad and he's also fairly red pill about many things.

I still think libertarianism has many inherent problems but Rothbardian libertarianism is the closest to a sensible version of it.
08-21-2016 03:42 AM
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