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Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
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jasond Offline
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Post: #1
Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
Over the past couple of years, I've noticed that some of the best daygame/nightgame PUAs I've met are using some or all of the following drugs on a regular basis:

Everyday:
a) Steroids, Human Growth Hormone (HGH), and Testosterone (TRT) for building muscle, managing mood, and improving motivation

Before Going Out:
b) Phenibut, Cocaine, and GHB to lessen anxiety, and to become more social and crazy

As Needed:
c) Viagra and Cialis, to maintain better erections and to fuck girls hard all night long

Just like with Olympic athletes and doping, this brings up an important question: can normal guys who are completely clean compete at the upper levels with PUAs that take PEDs?
03-04-2016 04:54 PM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
The person you are competing with is yourself. Have you found yourself at the heels of the pack?

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03-04-2016 05:02 PM
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LINUX Away
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Post: #3
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
A Pick Up Artist is a role-player in the gambit of life.

Beyond that charade of bullshit are the guys who have more women than they know what to do with.

The difference between those guys and a PUA is that they write their own script and walk their own path.

These men can not be replicated; therefore, PUA's will never compete with them.

As soon as people throw all that PUA -- alpha/beta- shit test- validation bullshit out the window, the sooner they'll see these doors start to open for them. A book can teach you how to be a PUA but what I'm talking about can't be taught and can't be written about in a way that people can understand it. You have to see it for yourself.

The old man is the old man and fish is the fish. Eventually, you have to stop pretending and be who you are.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 05:44 PM by LINUX.)
03-04-2016 05:37 PM
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Phoenix Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
^ ...and also you're jacked and roided as all fuck right?
03-04-2016 05:49 PM
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RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
(03-04-2016 05:49 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  ^ ...and also you're jacked and roided as all fuck right?

I never said I was talking about me. I've spent time with over 40 forum members by now. I can see these things. If you met these people, you would see it too.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 06:06 PM by LINUX.)
03-04-2016 05:52 PM
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Phoenix Offline
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RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
But OP basically is talking about you right?

You're making it sound like just a knowledge thing, when really much of the wind in the sails of women's response to you is your physique. Which is basically OP's whole theory and which you haven't really addressed. I'm just saying, that in a more honest and less mystic response, you'd also have said "plus you should get jacked as fuck".
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 06:08 PM by Phoenix.)
03-04-2016 06:05 PM
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Post: #7
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
(03-04-2016 06:05 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  But OP basically is talking about you right?

You're making it sound like just a knowledge thing, when really much of the wind in the sails of women's response to you is your physique. Which is basically OP's whole theory and which you haven't really addressed. I'm just saying, that in a more honest and less mystic response, you'd also have said "plus you should get jacked as fuck".

You're not getting it.

Like i said it can't be explained. Go spend some time with Fisto, Irish, Papi Rico, Vancity, Masculine Profiles, Atlantic, Scotian. Take all those personality types, social and anti-social , fat and skinny, short and tall, jacked and not jacked, and come back and figure out, "Why are these guys never alone?"

It's because they own who they are and none of them would let you label them a PUA. They have developed what you would call game around their personality type, and figured out their niche, whatever that may be.

Go see these things and you will understand what I am talking about on how this PED question is irrelevant. Yes, I am jacked but the women I land are no differently than what these other guys land on a consistent basis not being jacked.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 06:20 PM by LINUX.)
03-04-2016 06:19 PM
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monster Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
OP is looking for a magic pill that will make everything click.

There is no magic pill. It all comes from within.
03-04-2016 06:36 PM
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rottenapple Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
I think its a valid question and most of those things when managed responsible will help. They will help on the short term, through attraction/confidence etc. but also on the long term, because the experiences you get while in a state of mind that is beneficial will help you understand social dynamics etc. for when you are off.

Take a man who never drinks alcohol and only rarely goes out when he is really feeling it, will he understand women the same way than a guy who will pour some drinks to get him started and say fuck it, let's see what the night brings? I think he'd be at a disadvantage. You gotta make sure you're in the playing field and if you can't get there without using help, then search help.

I'll give another example: on the very last university exam I had, I tried a smart drug. It improved my learning capacity by a big factor. The first thing off course that pops in your head then is, damn imagine if I used this all the time from the start. Could it make the difference between just passing all courses or being top of the class? Yes it can be. Can cocaine be the difference between getting a top girl or not? Yes possibly.

We are in a competitive environment here, know your weapons and choose wisely, for the short and the long term (health implications).

As for OP's question, yes they can, but at a disadvantage. And the higher the level gets, the bigger the difference details will make.
03-04-2016 09:18 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
GHB is still around?
03-04-2016 10:38 PM
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jariel Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
(03-04-2016 05:37 PM)LINUX Wrote:  As soon as people throw all that PUA -- alpha/beta- shit test- validation bullshit out the window, the sooner they'll see these doors start to open for them. A book can teach you how to be a PUA but what I'm talking about can't be taught and can't be written about in a way that people can understand it. You have to see it for yourself.

The old man is the old man and fish is the fish. Eventually, you have to stop pretending and be who you are.

(01-08-2015 08:54 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Lying:

Lie!! Lie about everything. Lie about your job, how many times you have been married, when your last relationship was, and what you are looking for. Don’t go to Colombia telling these women you work at Staples and came here to get laid. It’s very easy to pull off an Oncologist if you are in your 30’s, dress decent, and know how to shine your shoes and also tell them you are here for a job interview and you are looking for marriage. If you are looking for a relationship, you can be a little more genuine. I was just looking for lays. If they want to see a picture of your house, take one of the nicest house in your neighborhood and send it on whatsapp.

I also told most of these girls that I wanted them to have my children. The best pick up line is, “ I want my daughter to look just like you. “They had no problem having a unprotecting sex with me because I own 2 homes, makes 500,000 a year, and want to get married to them and have a family.

So you went from "lie about everything" to "be who you are"?

Respect your work and perspective, but if you're going to be an adviser to guys who are lower on the game totem pole than you are, please come with consistent messages.

While I can understand pivoting from one perspective to another, what you're saying amounts to revisionist history on your part.

To the OP, Moma is right, and it's something I've said many times, you are your competition.

Just because a guy is on whatever doesn't mean he's an option for a girl you're interested in.

If he's not interested in the girl you're interested in, then he's not an option for her, which means he isn't competition at all.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 11:01 PM by jariel.)
03-04-2016 10:43 PM
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whiteknightrises Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
I ran a cycle once (at about the same time I was really getting into game)

I banged one chick over the course of ~2.5 months, doing the whole "go out 7 nights a week" thing

This year I've banged 5 chicks while going out at most 2-3 times a month (4/5 were SNL)
- I'm still relatively in shape. Though I stopped lifting as of this week - we'll see how this affects my results going forward

What PEDs will do for you

Everyone knows the physical effects of steroids (get jacked, ball shrinkage, etc) but I think what isn't mentioned as much are the mental/social effects.

Notable mental effects:
-(I guess this is physical but mental in the sense that your mindset changes) you are incredibly horny... all the time. I literally walked out of class once because I was too horny to concentrate.
-You feel "in state" / amazing almost all the time. I literally would walk down the street sometimes and high five people randomly... not so much because I was a PUA monkey but because I felt THAT good.
-You can imagine how these mental effects would color your interactions with girls: being very motivated to chase and having a magnetism/charm about you

Notable social effects:
-Girls checking you out hardcore and even randomly coming up to you and feeling you up (bordering on harassment). Prior to the cycle, I had never experienced that

So if getting laid is a meter from 0 to 100%, PEDs will probably take you to say 50%, effectively lessening the amount of work you put in.
---
So what enables me to do much better now? Biggest difference maker for me was this:

Being able to spot DTF girls, not wasting my time with those who aren't, and pulling the trigger on those who are.

You could have all the funny jokes, cool dance moves, whatever. But if you aren't saying to a girl "let's get out of here" and inserting your penis in her vagina, nothing is happening. Like Linux said, people figure out their own game. Let's look at another example:

For every Linux (haven't met him but basing my judgment off epic Colombia thread), there are probably 100 phaggot Zyzz wannabes with their shirts off at [insert EDM club or festival] looking try-hard and trying to "dance like a sikcunt." Ultimately, you never see these dudes making any moves because they are actually scared just like every other "beta" dude that is just wearing a different costume (bottle service/expensive suit, wannabe promoter in it only for girls, etc)

So in sum OP, PEDs definitely help and if you took two dudes who were the same in every aspect like game and looks but one was on PEDs, the PED dude would probably win out. But they aren't necessary in my experience

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03-04-2016 11:28 PM
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AWright Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
PEDS make me feel wired, kratom chills me out. If you aren't a natural pick up will teach you things that with practice and years of use to match your personality, can teach you how to become a natural through repetition till it becomes ingrained.
03-04-2016 11:40 PM
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steak Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
While a lot of girls like jacked dudes, not every girl does. Consider it product market fit. You are the product, and you build the game around your personality. I think you can be yourself and at the same time lie about your job (you should never mention your job.) What you can't lie about is who you are, figuring this out is the one skill women have which is innately superior to men, from an evolutionary perspective this makes sense as women need to select the correct partner to propagate beyond their lifetimes.

@jasond you sound like a young guy, I am as well. I would caution you do not want to be fucking your body up early, as in if you are below 30, for a bit of pussy, because as you get older you will gain access to much superior pussy if you play your cards right.

The only true PED in game is your ability to find niche markets + money which smoothes everything over.

If we are going to have a legitimate discussion you need to break down how much you are going out and how much you are getting laid with and without the drugs and get statistical. If you're fucking more than 20 girls a month well... do what makes you happy but sounds to me like a waste of time. IF you can't fuck at least 5 decent girls a month going out a lot while not on some kind of substance the product market fit is off and either need to change yourself or your environment probably both.
03-05-2016 12:38 AM
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Post: #15
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
I have to admit a roid enhanced body transformation is very tempting
03-05-2016 09:51 AM
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Stimulus Offline
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RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
^^

I'm also tinkering with that thought. Tho making good progress by going to the gym consistently, I'm kind of impatient.

Taking PED's in order to enhance my social abilities is a no go. Some alcohol every now and then is fine but I'd like to be in control of myself and my behaviour.

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03-05-2016 10:15 AM
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VincentVinturi Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
I think you can compete without juicing but you'll never be as good as the guys who are juicing AND have their shit together unless you have a very high natural baseline.

Just like in sports.

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03-05-2016 10:28 AM
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RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
(03-04-2016 10:43 PM)jariel Wrote:  So you went from "lie about everything" to "be who you are"?

Respect your work and perspective, but if you're going to be an adviser to guys who are lower on the game totem pole than you are, please come with consistent messages.

While I can understand pivoting from one perspective to another, what you're saying amounts to revisionist history on your part.

To the OP, Moma is right, and it's something I've said many times, you are your competition.

Just because a guy is on whatever doesn't mean he's an option for a girl you're interested in.

If he's not interested in the girl you're interested in, then he's not an option for her, which means he isn't competition at all.

We've gone over my views before in other threads and how they've changed but you seem to always want to show up to my threads to start some shit and throw quotes out from over a year ago. People change their views and beliefs based on the things they learn and what they experience in their life. I'm one of those people.

You seem to have some sort of envy or jealousy issues Jariel. I hope you figure things out.

Why don't you stick to your talk sessions and internet persona and I'll stick to meeting members in person and showing who I am in person. That's the difference between you and I.

Good luck to you.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 02:03 PM by LINUX.)
03-05-2016 01:51 PM
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vinman Offline
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RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
(03-05-2016 01:51 PM)LINUX Wrote:  
(03-04-2016 10:43 PM)jariel Wrote:  So you went from "lie about everything" to "be who you are"?

Respect your work and perspective, but if you're going to be an adviser to guys who are lower on the game totem pole than you are, please come with consistent messages.

While I can understand pivoting from one perspective to another, what you're saying amounts to revisionist history on your part.

To the OP, Moma is right, and it's something I've said many times, you are your competition.

Just because a guy is on whatever doesn't mean he's an option for a girl you're interested in.

If he's not interested in the girl you're interested in, then he's not an option for her, which means he isn't competition at all.

We've gone over my views before in other threads and how they've changed but you seem to always want to show up to my threads to start some shit and throw quotes out from over a year ago. People change their views and beliefs based on the things they learn and what they experience in their life. I'm one of those people.

You seem to have some sort of envy or jealousy issues Jariel. I hope you figure things out.

Why don't you stick to your talk sessions and internet persona and I'll stick to meeting members in person and showing who I am in person. That's the difference between you and I.

Good luck to you.

Ohshit

Laugh2

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03-05-2016 03:17 PM
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jariel Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
(03-05-2016 01:51 PM)LINUX Wrote:  We've gone over my views before in other threads and how they've changed but you seem to always want to show up to my threads to start some shit and throw quotes out from over a year ago. People change their views and beliefs based on the things they learn and what they experience in their life. I'm one of those people.

You seem to have some sort of envy or jealousy issues Jariel. I hope you figure things out.

Why don't you stick to your talk sessions and internet persona and I'll stick to meeting members in person and showing who I am in person. That's the difference between you and I.

Good luck to you.

Dude, I proved I was legit here a long time ago.

I was dropping jewels on the travel board before you even joined the site.

Guys have publicly thanked me for information I gave them about places I had been and for places I guided them to when they came to my city.

Furthermore, my messages have been consistent since Day 1.

Name a topic of discussion that I haven't contributed to.

My "talk sessions" get nothing but props, you sound like the hater.

When you contribute half of what I've contributed to this board, then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on.

All you proved is that you can manipulate barrio pussy for your own gain.

You didn't do anything that a lot of other dudes can't say they've also done.

You posted pictures of the chicks and it blew up in your face.

I don't need to put up a picture of some girl's ass.

Real players NEVER do that shit.

After I called you a dirty mack and put your level of game on blast, you tried to flip the script.

Now it's just "be you", now you "care" about the chicks, now you give chicks flowers and write poetry.

I'm one of the realest motherfuckers here.

I tried to be respectful towards you even I was just pointing out something that you put out publicly yourself, and you want to challenge me?

Again, I'm one of the realest motherfuckers here.

I don't need manufactured testosterone.

You do.

I don't need manufactured hard-ons.

You do.

I live in one of the dopest parts of my city, several guys here know where I live; I don't need to drive elsewhere and take pictures of someone else's house and show it to bitches so I can get bareback sex.

You do.

I don't need to run game one way, and then tell other guys to do it a different way.

You do.

I'm one of the realest motherfuckers here.

That's why my shit is "Real Talk" not "Fake ass bullshit that I'm pulling out of my ass to make myself look good".

Take that weak ass challenge of yours and save it for some newb who doesn't know any better and hasn't done any better.

My track record is too long.

The jewels that I've dropped are too plentiful.

Game over dude, you're out of quarters.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 06:18 PM by jariel.)
03-05-2016 06:17 PM
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Avon Barksdale Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Image: hukBPU.gif]

[Image: 58039576.jpg]

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03-05-2016 06:24 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
I have quotes from both of these guys in my signature--its like watching my parents fight.

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03-05-2016 06:44 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
This beef:

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More importantly OP. If you like coke then do coke. I don't judge anyone who enjoys their vices. I have my own. Same with if you want to be huge then by all means use steroids. If you feel like you're banging girls ugly enough that you can't maintain a boner tard tard Troll or are old as shit then by all means use viagra.

What I can't respect is that the sole purpose of doing it is as a crutch and to "compete". Fuck that. No self-respecting player let alone person should ever do some kind of substance just to feel like they have an in. It's actually why I quit tobacco for the first time and only came back once I was truly able to appreciate it.

Not to mention banging women is for your pleasure and for you. Why do you feel the need to compete in that way especially when you don't need too? That shit isn't game. Not one bit.

"Until the day when God shall deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is summed up in these two words,— 'Wait and hope'."- Alexander Dumas, "The Count of Monte Cristo"

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(This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 07:18 PM by Comte De St. Germain.)
03-05-2016 06:51 PM
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LINUX Away
True Player
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Posts: 1,878
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 243
Post: #24
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
Fine Jariel.

If you're one of the realest motherfuckers here then why do you have 176 rep points and not one person has written, "I met this guy."

Anyway, I'm moving on; I'm not going to continue this bullshit argument with you because you're not worth the ban.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 07:28 PM by LINUX.)
03-05-2016 07:05 PM
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[-] The following 6 users Like LINUX's post:
Cobra, Snowplow, the Thing, Hades, newgame, NoMoreTO
cascadecombo Offline
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Posts: 1,832
Joined: May 2014
Reputation: 22
Post: #25
RE: Game and Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs)--Can Clean Guys Compete?
Quote:Real players NEVER do that shit.

Is there some sort of guide book we are all supposed to own?
Not to mention sounds like that no true Scott's man fallacy.
03-05-2016 07:15 PM
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