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Kurgan Offline
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Post: #576
RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-01-2018 11:37 PM)Mr. Bigglesworth Wrote:  
(01-01-2018 07:42 PM)Kurgan Wrote:  So to the ones who know American history and economics, has there ever been times where the economy was bad under Democrats? From what I've seen, they've always managed to be seen as being better for the economy (I can see that with the Clinton years). But if they were really were, wouldn't the poorest cities that they control without opposition be faring better for the poor?

It's been a while since I've studied economics so I came off a little naive.

How about the entire Obama presidency? FDR is also a big one. We had a decade of a shit economy under him and his saving grace was ironically WW2.

The US never fully recovered from the Great Depression under FDR and if anything he prolonged it with his policies. It was the US entering WW2 and then our country being the only power left with an intact industry base after that war that recovered the US economy.

In what ways was it bad under Obama? I remember the big cities (Democratic voting places) seemed to do well while the rural areas struggled to bring work here from what I read under one article.
01-02-2018 09:46 PM
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godzilla Offline
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Post: #577
RE: Politics & War Lounge
Regulations, Going after Coal, Raised the Income Tax. Continuing Policies of previous failures like the h1B visa, bailing out the car companies, turning college degrees into toilet paper. I'm probably missing a bunch.

Big cities didn't benefit because of Obama, but more so due to family formation taking place a lot later in life. Many young people are moving into cities, so the economies of those cities have improved, though some such as Baltimore, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago might arguably be doing worse.
01-03-2018 01:02 PM
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Foolsgo1d Offline
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Post: #578
RE: Politics & War Lounge
https://news.sky.com/story/computers-fac...s-11193992

Anyone else catch this?

Quote:Certain computer tasks could be up to 50% slower because of a fix for a security flaw discovered in Intel microprocessors.

A flaw in Intel microprocessors is leaving computers worldwide facing up to a 50% slowdown when performing particular tasks.

The flaw affects a mechanism that microprocessers use to perform tasks quickly.

It is the fix that will cause the slowdown, as developers try to prevent hackers taking advantage of the flaw.

Sounds like those NSA hacking tools are being put to good use. The boys over at Intel worked alongside the NSA to give access to their enemies. Laugh

Oh but they can't go into it ofcourse. What a load of shit!
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2018 03:55 PM by Foolsgo1d.)
01-03-2018 03:55 PM
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ColSpanker Offline
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Post: #579
RE: Politics & War Lounge
What do you want to bet he ends the year on his knees in the backroom of a gay leather bar?
[Image: E-ylfcCn?format=jpg&name=600x314]

I’ll start 2018 by recognizing my white privilege

MATTHEW SEARS
CONTRIBUTED TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED 2 DAYS AGO
UPDATED JANUARY 2, 2018
Matthew Sears is an associate professor at the University of New Brunswick.

Instead of a resolution, I will begin 2018 with a New Year's confession: Until recently, I was a conservative. I rolled my eyes at every mention of what many call out as today's "campus orthodoxies" – ongoing oppression, systemic racism, sexism and misogyny, micro-aggressions, trigger warnings and any hint that speech could be a form of violence.

I considered myself a classical liberal because I believed in individual responsibility and that competition and individuality allow the cream to rise to the top, in terms of both economics and ideas. Above all, I felt I had earned my position as a university professor with a PhD from the Ivy League, and that those who had achieved less than I had earned that, too.

The right-wing Twittersphere talks of "red pill moments" (a reference to a famous scene from The Matrix), in which a person of the left is jolted by the real world to see through left-wing platitudes and join the right as a sensible conservative swayed by facts, not feelings. I prefer Thomas Kuhn's term "paradigm shift," which describes a fundamental change in scientific disciplines. I went through a paradigm shift starting five years ago.

Teaching at Wabash College, an all-male liberal arts college in small-town Indiana, I spent some time with the students and faculty of the Malcolm X Institute for Black Studies. I changed, witnessing the real experiences of these students in Middle America. Coming originally from Atlantic Canada and then studying in the hippie paradise of Ithaca, N.Y., I easily overlooked and ignored the oppression other groups faced (though, to be clear, oppression was still very much there).

And it just gets better from there....

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2018 02:32 PM by ColSpanker.)
01-04-2018 02:31 PM
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Agastya Offline
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(12-07-2017 08:22 PM)Enoch Wrote:  From Heartiste's blog. The shiv is strong.

"We’ve become the United States of Ingrates. Illegal aliens storm our land and demand our treasure and deference, sanctimonious virtue arbiters of the priestly class rob us blind and destroy our social fabric and then demand we abide their predations, crazy old cat ladies and fish-mouthed sluts for whom post-patriarchy life has been a soft pillowcase of negative struggle demand more government largesse and cultural favoritism while libeling the very men who provide them their comforts, nonWhites suck us dry and visit immense aesthetic and criminal violence on our communities and demand our apologies and our blame for it,

He got me until this part...

Shit like this is the strongest weakness in the modern alt right. You could include minorities and simply champion better family values and an overall healthy society. Making it a white vs non-white issue is a recipe for disaster. If nonsense like this was omitted or curtailed the right would dominate the country and the left would have nothing with which to defend itself.
01-04-2018 11:25 PM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #581
RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-04-2018 11:25 PM)Agastya Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 08:22 PM)Enoch Wrote:  From Heartiste's blog. The shiv is strong.

"We’ve become the United States of Ingrates. Illegal aliens storm our land and demand our treasure and deference, sanctimonious virtue arbiters of the priestly class rob us blind and destroy our social fabric and then demand we abide their predations, crazy old cat ladies and fish-mouthed sluts for whom post-patriarchy life has been a soft pillowcase of negative struggle demand more government largesse and cultural favoritism while libeling the very men who provide them their comforts, nonWhites suck us dry and visit immense aesthetic and criminal violence on our communities and demand our apologies and our blame for it,

He got me until this part...

Shit like this is the strongest weakness in the modern alt right. You could include minorities and simply champion better family values and an overall healthy society. Making it a white vs non-white issue is a recipe for disaster. If nonsense like this was omitted or curtailed the right would dominate the country and the left would have nothing with which to defend itself.

White supremacist/nationalist ideology is just the ultimate populism.

You accept all members of your racial group then bar others outside of it and set the bar so low where in theory you can build numbers to spur a movement with the majority.

They view race relations as a zero sum game where it's survival of the fittest and it's literally impossible for a non-white to be accepted or proliferate the traditions or values of western society.

There are a great number of things that the alt right speaks truth about but it has its own fatal ideological blind spots.

An ideology rooted in a worldview like that has little room to maneuver with.

The fatal flaws of such a populist movement is that it will also fail to weed out the narcissists, psychopaths, and other degenerates in their own group over time. A lasting revolution is more than just recruiting ideological fanatics to burn it all down to start over. You need industry, intelligentsia, and most of all the people themselves to back it up with a foundation.

Based on what i've seen on individual members of the alt right and their respective thoughts it's not going to happen anytime soon. Most of them are too busy trying to imitate Opie and Anthony and getting paid with their paywall/ad content.
01-04-2018 11:59 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #582
RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-02-2018 01:00 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  Muslim running for President of Russia against Putin:

https://www.rt.com/news/414776-muslim-wo...ns-russia/

She has no chance of winning --- yet ---give it 2 decades when they have majority then it's RIP all that Slavic Russian beauty.

I don't think that the progressives want to go that route - this won't go well for them:

Quote:According to OregonLive, Fabbrini has an IQ of about 72, and Ziegler’s is about 66

[Image: 1474302241281.png]

The couple was likely somehow retarded. Down Syndrome folk can reach IQs of 80-90. But most of the time those people procreating is not much of a problem, since the overwhelming majority don't have children anyway.
01-05-2018 12:58 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(12-29-2017 05:40 PM)AManLikePutin Wrote:  Wow, seeing the videos and reading about protests in Mashhad (Iran's 2nd biggest city). Definitely the most vocal since the infamous 2009 green movement. People frustrated at inflation, reduced purchasing power, and the fact that Rouhani's new budget had a 40% increase in defense spending. Just a dew days ago, the police in Tehran said they will no longer arrest women who won't adhere to the "Islamic hijab standards", but rather ave them attend a course by the POlice. Seen a few videos of girls taking their hijab off during the protests.

Some of the chants (translated from Farsi):

"Death to Dictator"

"Reza Shah, may god bless your soul"

"We made a revolution, it was a big mistake"

"Death to Rouhani, Death to Isl. Republic"

In other news, former president, Ahmadinejad has launched a full on attack on the judiciary system and the supreme leader and has given them ultimatum or else he'd "reveal some secrets".

[Image: 300px-29_December_2017_protests_in_Kerma...ull%29.jpg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80...n_protests

Sooner or later the regime will topple. Persians are the most intellectual group and the 1970s "revolution" was a big tragedy - comparable to the usurpation of a dictator.

The riots may actually be somewhat organic contrary to the usual "color revolutions" that are mostly globalist financed and end up leaving the country in a worse state than before.

Though the Supreme Leader and the theocracy won't be going anywhere unless the military stands with the secular folk.

Personally I think that the globalists want a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-1...asion-iran

Quote:Saudi Media Releases Propaganda Film Showing Invasion Of Iran






Iran is still on the bucket list of "color revolutions" for the globalists. Since it is too stable to topple into civil war, then I guess the second best thing a war with the Saudis which will destroy both countries. Iran is more than a match for the deluded Saudis. And the globalists get what they want.

As for a peaceful or violent bottom-up transition for Iran - no way. Even if 70% of all under 30yo people want a secular Iran/Persia, then they are not going to get it. The other side has Islam as their backing and they have the military. You need a strongman/Shah/military leader who takes over the armed forces, then the support of the people is easy enough. The current regime would rather kill 500.000 before they back down - and they will even justify it with quotes from the Quran and the Hadiths.
Getting rid of such ruling psychopaths who have religious backing is no easy feat.

I might also add - the globalists don't want a secular strong intellectual prosperous new Persia. Because such a country would likely be free from their control and the last thing they would want is a secular Muslim country that is doing well and God forbid might enact some kind of "revolutionary" monetary reform that goes incredibly well for them (interest free money creation for example). So that is another reason why the people of Iran won't get freedom from tyranny.

I am afraid that war is in the cards for them - either the rule by backward Mullahs or war with the Saudis/ISIS. Any other change is highly unlikely.
01-05-2018 01:23 AM
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8ball Offline
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Post: #584
RE: Politics & War Lounge
@Zelscorpion

Good points regarding the threat of a secular iran for the west. I'll also add that the US and the west is not interested in a possible Persian version of Turkey. They can't really control Turkey now and its causing them lots of problems for a country that is supposed to be a Nato ally.

A secular iran even with an islamist type of persian erdogan would be worse than the current mullahs for US and co. Their economy would be a lot stronger, diversified and have way more trading partners as options for diplomatic leverage. Instead of using pure weapon funding for Hezbollah and Hamas, they will dominate the entire region economically and culturally which will cause more long term damage for their enemies than hundreds of thousands of missiles sent to Yemen. They will also speed up the incoming doom of the petrodollar.

As usual neocons and other idiots are rubbing their hands premature and in the end the result will be the opposite of what they intended.
01-05-2018 01:41 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #585
RE: Politics & War Lounge




It's amazing - Buzzfeed and major Western mainstream media is siding with the theocratic Iranian regime against the protesters.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/rosebuchanan/ir....fgmWgGwqK

[Image: sub-buzz-7423-1514893302-1.jpg?downsize=...ality=auto]


They attack Paul Joseph Watson en force claiming that the pictures were "old" - yeah about a week old. The current Iranian protests cropped up all around the country end of december - there was no "official" start.

By the way - the gall of those sheisters speaking of old pictures when they constantly put up years-old pictures of "violence" against the civilians up when the topic of Assad was concerned. The fuckers even claimed that ISIS territories were safer than Assad-controlled regions.

Those sheisters lie lie lie lie lie every fucking day.

------------

As for Erdogan being bad - nah. Erdogan is in my opinion doing what he is tasked to do. Re-islamize the modern Turkey and prepare the Muslim world for WWIII (Islam vs everyone else), so that the religion can be bloodily wiped out and Earth highly depopulized. Don't fool yourself into believing that the globalists have a place for Islam in their Brave New World. Sure - they could support reforms, finance benevolent Muslim shitlord reformers and secularize the Muslim world, but that would take very long and it's possible that they would not budge beyond a certain conservative level.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 08:03 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
01-05-2018 08:00 AM
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Slam Offline
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
I just gotta say Trump's tweet about his bigger nuke button was incredible. What a time to be alive!

There has never been a US president like this.
01-05-2018 04:00 PM
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RE: Politics & War Lounge




This is fun. A new rant from the best.
01-06-2018 11:02 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-04-2018 11:59 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  
(01-04-2018 11:25 PM)Agastya Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 08:22 PM)Enoch Wrote:  From Heartiste's blog. The shiv is strong.

"We’ve become the United States of Ingrates. Illegal aliens storm our land and demand our treasure and deference, sanctimonious virtue arbiters of the priestly class rob us blind and destroy our social fabric and then demand we abide their predations, crazy old cat ladies and fish-mouthed sluts for whom post-patriarchy life has been a soft pillowcase of negative struggle demand more government largesse and cultural favoritism while libeling the very men who provide them their comforts, nonWhites suck us dry and visit immense aesthetic and criminal violence on our communities and demand our apologies and our blame for it,

He got me until this part...

Shit like this is the strongest weakness in the modern alt right. You could include minorities and simply champion better family values and an overall healthy society. Making it a white vs non-white issue is a recipe for disaster. If nonsense like this was omitted or curtailed the right would dominate the country and the left would have nothing with which to defend itself.

White supremacist/nationalist ideology is just the ultimate populism.

You accept all members of your racial group then bar others outside of it and set the bar so low where in theory you can build numbers to spur a movement with the majority.

They view race relations as a zero sum game where it's survival of the fittest and it's literally impossible for a non-white to be accepted or proliferate the traditions or values of western society.

There are a great number of things that the alt right speaks truth about but it has its own fatal ideological blind spots.

An ideology rooted in a worldview like that has little room to maneuver with.

The fatal flaws of such a populist movement is that it will also fail to weed out the narcissists, psychopaths, and other degenerates in their own group over time. A lasting revolution is more than just recruiting ideological fanatics to burn it all down to start over. You need industry, intelligentsia, and most of all the people themselves to back it up with a foundation.

Based on what i've seen on individual members of the alt right and their respective thoughts it's not going to happen anytime soon. Most of them are too busy trying to imitate Opie and Anthony and getting paid with their paywall/ad content.

Apologies. I normally snip parts of the quote but it's all pretty relevant in this case.

The major reason we're seeing a lot of lower-to-middle class whites agitating in the direction of white separatism is that it's simply the only political spectrum that allows people to speak honestly about certain issues.

Even on this forum we have to skate around various topics or tippy-toe through them for what we perceive to be the greater good of the forum rather than complete intellectual honesty. Beyond places like this, the double-speak and platitudes from the alt-light and the full spectrum of the center-right is just too ridiculous for many people to bear these days.

Those living in the upper-middle class and beyond or those living in mostly white areas have little difficulty waving away the grievances of those living in poorer, mixed districts. They don't see these issues face to face and so they're free to concoct whatever sort of ideology they need to insulate themselves from the social damage of being called a racist.

On the other hand (for example) if you're a middle-to-lower class white who lives or lived in Detroit for the last fifty years then the bitter reality of the situation has forced you to discard any delusions that plain old civic nationalism and Christian outreach are enough to right the ship and get back on track.

The ridiculous truth is that white people have been utterly forbidden from even suggesting that non-white people might need to pull their socks up a bit. We all know how it goes. In this day and age you either get with the program or you are a racist™.

There's no polite way to broach the issue of severe black illiteracy levels by suggesting that perhaps on average black parents in America are doing a shit job. And in that regard we are all painfully aware that you can't fix a problem if you can't name a problem, from bottom to (((top))).

Doublespeak, comforting lies and turning a blind eye all leave a stain on your soul. The newer breed of white separatists are merely whites that can no longer convince themselves to lie to the extreme degree required to avoid being called a racist, and these days there are no degrees of racism. You are either PC or you're literally Hitler.

The irony is that most of them would get along fine with non-whites on day to day basis. They merely contend that under the current cultural marxist social arrangement that there is no future in multiculturalism which by extension means multiracialism.

I myself am fortunately insulated from the issue geographically, and may therefore concoct whatever sort of ideology I need to insulate myself from the social damage of being called a racist, but I get where some of these guys (and gals) are coming from.
01-06-2018 11:50 AM
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Agastya Offline
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-06-2018 11:50 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Apologies. I normally snip parts of the quote but it's all pretty relevant in this case.

The major reason we're seeing a lot of lower-to-middle class whites agitating in the direction of white separatism is that it's simply the only political spectrum that allows people to speak honestly about certain issues.

Even on this forum we have to skate around various topics or tippy-toe through them for what we perceive to be the greater good of the forum rather than complete intellectual honesty. Beyond places like this, the double-speak and platitudes from the alt-light and the full spectrum of the center-right is just too ridiculous for many people to bear these days.

Those living in the upper-middle class and beyond or those living in mostly white areas have little difficulty waving away the grievances of those living in poorer, mixed districts. They don't see these issues face to face and so they're free to concoct whatever sort of ideology they need to insulate themselves from the social damage of being called a racist.

On the other hand (for example) if you're a middle-to-lower class white who lives or lived in Detroit for the last fifty years then the bitter reality of the situation has forced you to discard any delusions that plain old civic nationalism and Christian outreach are enough to right the ship and get back on track.

The ridiculous truth is that white people have been utterly forbidden from even suggesting that non-white people might need to pull their socks up a bit. We all know how it goes. In this day and age you either get with the program or you are a racist™.

There's no polite way to broach the issue of severe black illiteracy levels by suggesting that perhaps on average black parents in America are doing a shit job. And in that regard we are all painfully aware that you can't fix a problem if you can't name a problem, from bottom to (((top))).

Doublespeak, comforting lies and turning a blind eye all leave a stain on your soul. The newer breed of white separatists are merely whites that can no longer convince themselves to lie to the extreme degree required to avoid being called a racist, and these days there are no degrees of racism. You are either PC or you're literally Hitler.

The irony is that most of them would get along fine with non-whites on day to day basis. They merely contend that under the current cultural marxist social arrangement that there is no future in multiculturalism which by extension means multiracialism.

I myself am fortunately insulated from the issue geographically, and may therefore concoct whatever sort of ideology I need to insulate myself from the social damage of being called a racist, but I get where some of these guys (and gals) are coming from.

This makes sense, and I understand why some white people may feel this way. No one likes it when a minority or group of people consistently fucks up and no one is really allowed to discuss the reasons why.

This, by the way, is a phenomenon that exists across the world. My grandfather lives in a fairly prosperous part of India, and complains about how workers from shithole areas keep coming into his city and causing problems. A lot of the gang rapes and fucked up shit we hear about in India are caused by this exact phenomenon. It's legitimate for him (or for anyone else) to be angry about this happening.

The problem isn't that a couple white people don't like poor ghetto blacks, the problem is when a big alt-right platform like Heartiste publicly vomits out this kind of nonsense. He's saying that ALL non-whites are basically just leeching white society and are a complete net negative. This is a stupid move for a variety of reasons:

1) There are millions of non-whites (Persians, Asians, Indians, Nigerians, Ethiopians, etc) who bring strong families, legitimate culture, and healthy values into western society.

2) Many of these immigrants will actually agree with a lot of what the alt-right is saying. They don't want outright depravity being taught in schools or sponsored in our culture. They don't like rampant promiscuity, single-motherhood, or feminism.

3) Putting all of these people into an enemy category completely alienates them, alienates moderates of all races, discredits your movement, and gives ammunition to the degenerate left, who at least pretend not to despise America's millions of non-white citizens.

This is EASILY the biggest issue with the modern alt-right, and will tarnish anyone associated with them if left unchecked.
01-07-2018 07:10 PM
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-07-2018 07:10 PM)Agastya Wrote:  
(01-06-2018 11:50 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Apologies. I normally snip parts of the quote but it's all pretty relevant in this case.

The major reason we're seeing a lot of lower-to-middle class whites agitating in the direction of white separatism is that it's simply the only political spectrum that allows people to speak honestly about certain issues.

Even on this forum we have to skate around various topics or tippy-toe through them for what we perceive to be the greater good of the forum rather than complete intellectual honesty. Beyond places like this, the double-speak and platitudes from the alt-light and the full spectrum of the center-right is just too ridiculous for many people to bear these days.

Those living in the upper-middle class and beyond or those living in mostly white areas have little difficulty waving away the grievances of those living in poorer, mixed districts. They don't see these issues face to face and so they're free to concoct whatever sort of ideology they need to insulate themselves from the social damage of being called a racist.

On the other hand (for example) if you're a middle-to-lower class white who lives or lived in Detroit for the last fifty years then the bitter reality of the situation has forced you to discard any delusions that plain old civic nationalism and Christian outreach are enough to right the ship and get back on track.

The ridiculous truth is that white people have been utterly forbidden from even suggesting that non-white people might need to pull their socks up a bit. We all know how it goes. In this day and age you either get with the program or you are a racist™.

There's no polite way to broach the issue of severe black illiteracy levels by suggesting that perhaps on average black parents in America are doing a shit job. And in that regard we are all painfully aware that you can't fix a problem if you can't name a problem, from bottom to (((top))).

Doublespeak, comforting lies and turning a blind eye all leave a stain on your soul. The newer breed of white separatists are merely whites that can no longer convince themselves to lie to the extreme degree required to avoid being called a racist, and these days there are no degrees of racism. You are either PC or you're literally Hitler.

The irony is that most of them would get along fine with non-whites on day to day basis. They merely contend that under the current cultural marxist social arrangement that there is no future in multiculturalism which by extension means multiracialism.

I myself am fortunately insulated from the issue geographically, and may therefore concoct whatever sort of ideology I need to insulate myself from the social damage of being called a racist, but I get where some of these guys (and gals) are coming from.

This makes sense, and I understand why some white people may feel this way. No one likes it when a minority or group of people consistently fucks up and no one is really allowed to discuss the reasons why.

This, by the way, is a phenomenon that exists across the world. My grandfather lives in a fairly prosperous part of India, and complains about how workers from shithole areas keep coming into his city and causing problems. A lot of the gang rapes and fucked up shit we hear about in India are caused by this exact phenomenon. It's legitimate for him (or for anyone else) to be angry about this happening.

The problem isn't that a couple white people don't like poor ghetto blacks, the problem is when a big alt-right platform like Heartiste publicly vomits out this kind of nonsense. He's saying that ALL non-whites are basically just leeching white society and are a complete net negative. This is a stupid move for a variety of reasons:

1) There are millions of non-whites (Persians, Asians, Indians, Nigerians, Ethiopians, etc) who bring strong families, legitimate culture, and healthy values into western society.

2) Many of these immigrants will actually agree with a lot of what the alt-right is saying. They don't want outright depravity being taught in schools or sponsored in our culture. They don't like rampant promiscuity, single-motherhood, or feminism.

3) Putting all of these people into an enemy category completely alienates them, alienates moderates of all races, discredits your movement, and gives ammunition to the degenerate left, who at least pretend not to despise America's millions of non-white citizens.

This is EASILY the biggest issue with the modern alt-right, and will tarnish anyone associated with them if left unchecked.

I do agree with you on your points, it hurts the MRA and alt-right as well if they can't look past race. I don't agree with the "demographics is destiny" BS the Democrats spouse, but I really don't want one party rule for decades.

I'm sure there are non-whites who don't like being patronized by liberals, but when some conservatives or alt-right starts saying offensive crap or doing something stupid, it doesn't exactly make them feel welcome either. It just seems to be a problem with modern conservatives especially in America. They can't reach out for fear of alienating the Religious Right and they would be also bashed if they didn't reach out to groups by the Left.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2018 07:56 PM by Kurgan.)
01-07-2018 07:53 PM
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Enoch Offline
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Post: #591
RE: Politics & War Lounge
Yeah the hardcore race part of the alt right will never gain any real traction.

Enacting a merit based system of immigration is the best possible outcome.

By far the most existential problem is globalism. I think this is where Trump has made the most progress, actually. Pulling out of TPP, Paris Climate Accord, Renegotiating NAFTA, etc.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2018 08:10 PM by Enoch.)
01-07-2018 08:08 PM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-06-2018 11:50 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  The ridiculous truth is that white people have been utterly forbidden from even suggesting that non-white people might need to pull their socks up a bit. We all know how it goes. In this day and age you either get with the program or you are a racist™.

There's no polite way to broach the issue of severe black illiteracy levels by suggesting that perhaps on average black parents in America are doing a shit job. And in that regard we are all painfully aware that you can't fix a problem if you can't name a problem, from bottom to (((top))).

This is the crux of the problem. The U.S. and many other western societies have swung so far to this weird cultural marxist collectivist group think that reactionary race based politics seems positively sane.

Just to be clear there's a lot of issues the alt right espouses that I fully agree with.

I do think there's a clear dividing line from being race aware and actually being racist. Race awareness is fully acknowledging the science and logic behind racial differences. It's completely rational to discuss these differences and debate it. Actual racism is quite different and has those zero sum survival of the fittest ideological characteristics I mentioned before. The left obviously doesn't see a difference in this.

An actual racist simply has deep and utter contempt for people outside their race in general with no regard to individual exceptions. Lets's be honest about the alt right..a lot of the members and their individually espoused ideologies certainly fit in the latter category.

I've listened to a lot of alt right podcasts and read a lot of alt-right ideological material. Probably more than I care to admit these days and the common theme I see is that if the shoe were on the other foot they would just turn around and deprive all non whites of rights. Stripping all non whites of citizenship, redrawing national boundaries, and mass deportations of legal citizens as defined by current law is obviously questionable from a moral and legal foundation.

A lot of the alt right just want a return to a genteel whites only global colonial style system where non whites have no rights at all. It's literally all about blood and soil and ultimately subjugation. They want another form of globalism with them on the controlling end of things.


That's not something I can even remotely get on board with.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2018 11:15 PM by El Chinito loco.)
01-07-2018 11:10 PM
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Disco_Volante Offline
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-07-2018 11:10 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  A lot of the alt right just want a return to a genteel whites only global colonial style system where non whites have no rights at all. It's literally all about blood and soil and ultimately subjugation. They want another form of globalism with them on the controlling end of things.
That's not something I can even remotely get on board with.

That's completely untrue. Any time a white person / community / country wants to preserve their area, all of a sudden you conflate that with "ruling over every other race". Ironically the only race who even tries to enact limited government is right-wing white males. Every other race wants MORE bureaucratic control over their lives. It's about guilting whitey into maintaining access to higher civilization. What they really fear is living in mexico / Africa / Haiti / what have you.

That's why they all naturally ally against any objective standards for example of womens' work performance or muslim immigration. They sense if the government started judging the merits of people they would end up on the wrong side.

It's a legitimate concern that whites are sick of paying taxes so other ethnic groups who hate them can have a birthrate way higher enabled by subsidies. Even mention cutting off these subsidies and you accuse us of wanting a Nazi-style takeover of the world. You're pro-actively attacking white taxpayers in modern countries created by their ancestors. That's why they become alt-right in the first place.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2018 11:31 PM by Disco_Volante.)
01-07-2018 11:25 PM
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El Chinito loco Offline
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Post: #594
RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-07-2018 11:25 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  
(01-07-2018 11:10 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  A lot of the alt right just want a return to a genteel whites only global colonial style system where non whites have no rights at all. It's literally all about blood and soil and ultimately subjugation. They want another form of globalism with them on the controlling end of things.
That's not something I can even remotely get on board with.

That's completely untrue. Any time a white person / community / country wants to preserve their area, all of a sudden you conflate that with "ruling over every other race".

I'm not criticizing preservation of white culture or the rights of white people to do so.

My response was to commonly held alt right beliefs based on listening to way more than my fair share of white nationalist material. There are certainly some who believe in basic separatism and preservation. I believe they have the fundamental right to do so through limiting immigration and hell even breaking off if they want.

However, many want to go one step beyond in a direction I mentioned before. Depriving non white legal citizens as defined by law is just the next step.

I'm not conflating preservation with subjugation. Even somewhat "moderate" white nationalist guys like Richard Spencer advocate a lot of the zero sum aspects I mentioned before.

If you think what I said before is a realistic thing or a workable ideology hey be my guest. I'm just not buying into it is what i'm saying.

Quote: Even mention cutting off these subsidies and you accuse us of wanting a Nazi-style takeover of the world. You're pro-actively attacking white taxpayers in modern countries created by their ancestors. That's why they become alt-right in the first place.

Where did I even mention advocating for subsidies?

Your completely jumping the gun here and overreacting in an emotionally charged manner. I'm hardly some SJW so i'm not sure where you're going with your response here.
01-07-2018 11:53 PM
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Agastya Offline
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Post: #595
RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-07-2018 11:10 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  I do think there's a clear dividing line from being race aware and actually being racist. Race awareness is fully acknowledging the science and logic behind racial differences. It's completely rational to discuss these differences and debate it. Actual racism is quite different and has those zero sum survival of the fittest ideological characteristics I mentioned before. The left obviously doesn't see a difference in this.

An actual racist simply has deep and utter contempt for people outside their race in general with no regard to individual exceptions. Lets's be honest about the alt right..a lot of the members and their individually espoused ideologies certainly fit in the latter category.

I've listened to a lot of alt right podcasts and read a lot of alt-right ideological material. Probably more than I care to admit these days and the common theme I see is that if the shoe were on the other foot they would just turn around and deprive all non whites of rights. Stripping all non whites of citizenship, redrawing national boundaries, and mass deportations of legal citizens as defined by current law is obviously questionable from a moral and legal foundation.

A lot of the alt right just want a return to a genteel whites only global colonial style system where non whites have no rights at all. It's literally all about blood and soil and ultimately subjugation. They want another form of globalism with them on the controlling end of things.

That's not something I can even remotely get on board with.

This is the post of the fucking year. There are a few things that I disagree with but yes, there should be a MASSIVE distinction made between conservative thinking and ACTUAL racism.

A lot of hardline liberals can't distinguish between an actual attempt at fixing a problem (calling out negative tendencies in Islam, for example), vs. racist horseshit like the tiki torch protestors. According to liberal logic, Trump supporters are racist and misogynist, so they really aren't that different from Dylann Roof (an actual violent racist). Liberals will frequently equate problem-solving (criticizing Islam, refining the immigration system, cracking down on illegal immigration) with genuinely racist beliefs and practices.

Parts of the alt-right do the opposite of this -- they just assume all minorities hate whites, are a net negative to the west, and are completely racially inferior. Which, as I explained earlier, is an absolutely retarded move on their part. Many minorities would agree with a lot of their emphasis on tradition and family values. Unfortunately their cause gets torpedoed by their racist bullshit.

Differences between races is a little trickier; if you travel widely, you'll notice that many people across the globe lack a clear "race". Indians, Persians, Arabs, Turks, North Africans, Latinos, and Southern Europeans all bear descent from several different parts of the world. To me, it seems illogical to claim that a Mexican who is 25% white, 50% Native American, and 25% black has any clear "race". It's feasible that the Han Chinese, the Norwegians, and black Zimbabweans may have some clearly defined characteristics, since they are fairly homogenous. But modern conceptions of race simply don't apply to vast portions of the globe.
01-08-2018 01:18 AM
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-07-2018 11:25 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  That's why they all naturally ally against any objective standards for example of womens' work performance or muslim immigration. They sense if the government started judging the merits of people they would end up on the wrong side.

It's a legitimate concern that whites are sick of paying taxes so other ethnic groups who hate them can have a birthrate way higher enabled by subsidies. Even mention cutting off these subsidies and you accuse us of wanting a Nazi-style takeover of the world. You're pro-actively attacking white taxpayers in modern countries created by their ancestors. That's why they become alt-right in the first place.

If objective standards were used in "higher civilization", Asians would completely overrun the Ivy League schools and probably do so in upper management as well. With the Ivies legacies (almost all white) basically get priority over more qualified applicants, many of whom are Asian. Asians have to do fifty points better on the SAT than whites to get in to equivalent colleges, GPA's being equal. I agree that this doesn't necessarily make Asians oppressed, but it does undercut your argument.

Many minorities are also strongly against mass Muslim immigration. I don't think Hindu Indians, Christian Arabs, or West Africans want to deal with tons of religiously aggressive Muslim refugees or the various problems they may cause.

Grouping all minorities together as one ideological bloc is autistic, and yet another massive hole in the legitimacy of the alt-right.
01-08-2018 01:26 AM
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-08-2018 01:26 AM)Agastya Wrote:  Grouping all minorities together as one ideological bloc is autistic, and yet another massive hole in the legitimacy of the alt-right.

They all vote democrat, leftist open-borders policies so that's the problem. They vote along racial blocks so even if you're 'inclusive' they will always think in terms of their group. I don't blame them that's human nature. But its why multi-racial societies don't work. The left is now openly taunting that these new immigrant groups HATE gun rights and will vote them away as soon as they have enough.

Asians are intelligent but they lack creativity and innovation Europeans brought to their shores. Japan had no industrial revolution technology before Euros arrived. They want into western civilization for a reason.
If we pay taxes and support the system they want into, there's no reason we can't be gatekeepers as to who can get in.

We're at the point where the left thinks being a citizen shouldn't have any benefits whatsoever. True there are plenty of dumb whites but it doesn't mean the government they pay taxes into shouldn't favor their own citizens anyways.

Yea hillbilly redneck is not better than a 130 IQ Japanese student at Harvard, but Joe Redneck's vote and exercising sovereignty over his country is the value that the nation-state creates for its citizens.

That's why societies crumble, if you invest in kids and your community it's easily replaced by bringing in foreigners who cancel out your vote and share none of your values.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2018 02:08 AM by Disco_Volante.)
01-08-2018 01:52 AM
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Kona Offline
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
(01-07-2018 11:25 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  It's a legitimate concern that whites are sick of paying taxes so other ethnic groups who hate them can have a birthrate way higher enabled by subsidies. Even mention cutting off these subsidies and you accuse us of wanting a Nazi-style takeover of the world. You're pro-actively attacking white taxpayers in modern countries created by their ancestors. That's why they become alt-right in the first place.

Well considering white people are the majority, why don't you cut these subsidies off and end them for everyone? Food stamps, disability, welfare, all of it? None for white people either. Save America.

The altrighters that want it gone and forgotten that white people really went out of their way to keep black people down are the ones that confuse me.

Jim Crow laws, slavery, those things are part of white American heritage. White nationalists want to forget that part of their heritage, but tear down some statues, they get pissed.

The big part of American heritage the race based far righters seem to really want to forget is the "all men are created equal" part.

That phrase means America is as much mine as it is yours.

Aloha!
01-08-2018 02:13 AM
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
I would have liked DV's post except for the fact that he was getting personal.

But herein lies the problem. We can be quite aware of exceptional members of a racial or ethnic minority, but what does it matter in a democracy when literally between 80-90 percent of that minority votes directly or indirectly for the fall of Western civilisation.

Go further and we can say "much of a muchness" because unchecked Republican governments would still build a police state and sell their constituents to the highest bidder, though they might do it on a longer timeframe.

You could argue that absent minorities the Overton window would shift toward the Authoritarian Right vs the Libertarian Right, but how would a Libertarian Right justify racial qualifiers for immigration or citizenship?

Not that any of it matters anyway. Heartiste nor his followers nor any of the white supremacists, seperatists or race realists are going to gain traction this side of a total collapse. Any ethnic enclave that rises in the future can only do so in the absence of the old order. There is literally no sane or believable roadmap for this to happen under the auspices of the current Federal government, at which point you are left to ask how many of these people exist, and what percentage of them are willing to fight a bloody civil war for this new territory?

The numbers, you'll find, are laughably small (and wildly scattered more to the point). The US Federal Postal service could put down an uprising of that size. White separatists are too lazy or unmotivated to even form deliberate regional enclaves and resort to semi-legal coercion to keep their districts "pure". The sad fact is that if most of them were earning mid-6-figures they would move to a rich area and immediately cease to give a fuck about their cause, because those issues no longer affected them.

Want a bigger laugh? Those people have a better chance of living in whiteville, either here or abroad, by trying to make that money rather than bitching on the internet. One of those courses has a chance. The other by definition has zero.

That's not to say that awareness of these issues is not without merit. If we undergo a collapse then we need to have an understanding of what went wrong and why so we can rebuild in a sensible way that doesn't lead us down the same path. It's for that reason that I continually advocate for something like military service to earn a right to vote (despite that meaning I would get no vote). There will always be genius shysters manipulating moronic dregs, even in a racially homogeneous nation. The long term survival of a democracy would seem to require a limited franchise large enough not to be bought outright but small enough not to include the simps.

p.s. tl/dr There is no point getting worked up about things you and your limited number of fellows cannot change. Focus on how to survive/thrive during the inevitable shitshow and build something better afterward.

Screaming at strangers on the internet achieves nothing.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2018 02:31 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
01-08-2018 02:25 AM
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RE: Politics & War Lounge
Everyone in the US has some kind of legitimacy of being there, but you gotta realize that it is comparable to this:

Imagine Japan suddenly took in millions of immigrants all across the world - Europe, US, India, Africa, MENA states - this would have the following consequences after a few years:

1. Imagine that 30 mio. folk would come over - all of them young and fertile
2. Imagine that their fertility would be much higher than those of the local Japanese and they would double their population percentage in the next decades while the native Japanese would halve theirs
3. Also imagine that just as in the US and EU the government, academia and media would be blasting hatred and disgust to the Japanese for being racist, for being formerly imperial, for having done terrible war crimes in China, SEA and Korea, for being general assholes of history and that Japan was always a country of immigration - get used to it Jap-skunk! Add to it constant movie and TV commercials where 90% of the time Japanese women are shown with a white, black or Middle Eastern man. Imagine also that the young Japanese would be all for the alt-left bullshit and at least mentally join Antifa just as they do in Germany.
4. Then fast forward into the future with a negative myth and history of Japan and a majority of non-Japanese living there.

Does anyone in his fucking right mind believe that Japan would look like Japan in the year 2060 with a massive overrepresentation of non-Japanese? The idea is based on some idiotic notion that the US was created by "diverse" immigration while in truth the first 200 years brought only anglo-stock (among those 500.000 WHITE SLAVES FROM IRELAND AND SCOTLAND) and then the following immigration waves brought easily assimilable folk from Europe who adopted the anglo-system for their own and actually looked more or less the same.

After 1965 there are certainly many immigrants who also adopted the American System, but look different - fine, there is some merit to that, but if you keep on adding and then keep on shitting on the culture that was before, then after a time there will hardly be any Japanese girls left and the culture would have died.

And this is what is happening to the West with the Whites who have created the highest levels of civilization in history are now the biggest villains and have to accept for their homecountries to be taken from their asses. I guess the Japanese would have to accept that too and the Saudis as well. So - it's all fine - take the countries away from Whitey, because who cares, they are so evil anyway, eh? Do the same to the Japanese until sushi and udon is replaced with KFC there as the main country dish.

Diversity in my opinion is the natural desire of retaining old successful systems and tribes. Sure - you can destroy it all and think that it is wonderful for doing so, but don't buy into the globalist bullshit of everything being racism or Nazi thinking only because you think that countries like Japan or Germany are cool the way they are and you don't want to take their countries away from the people who built it. And you will take it away by importing lots of non-native folk, even if most of them are good people. (And in some places most of the newcomers are anything but good and even comparable to the ones they wish to replace.) And my point would remain the same even if we took for example only high-IQ highly performing Chinese and pumped them to Switzerland at the rate of 20 mio. The crime would even go down, because Chinese have less violent criminal behavior than the Caucasians, but Switzerland of the old would be gone - it would very soon resemble a massive mountainous Chinatown. There is nothing wrong with that, but the entire operation would have been orchestrated by a treacherous elite who have other plans while they spout anti-Swiss propaganda 24/7 and the Chinese are getting riled up to an anti-White fury.

But who cares - the globalists are in full charge now and they control everything, so I guess that they will get their way. The world will become more intermingled anyway due to modern technology, cultures change all the time. We will see how it pans out across the centuries and especially when some hostile ideologies and huge gaps in IQ and abilities will be able to live side by side harmoniously.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2018 02:57 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
01-08-2018 02:50 AM
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