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Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
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donnie514 Offline
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Post: #1
Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Introduction:

After reading Scotian's "Working in The Oilsands" thread back in 2013 little did I know I would take a hard right in life in almost every aspect.  I made fast money being a roughneck that I never seen before which allowed me to travel the world for extensive periods of time and got used to having "nice" things.   

All of this took a sharp turn when I decided that I would make "Faster" money in a business venture that was hopeless from the start but I was on a money high and seriously stubborn and very inexperienced in the business world.  Fast forward 5 months I was out of business, savings wiped out, and on top of that I owed the bank about mid five figures in debt.  

Still living in Edmonton with Oil tanking fast (I couldn't get rehired on the rigs) I decided any job was better than no job so I took any job I could find which were: working in a hotel as a bartender,  strip-club doorman, and a cash job as a landscaper installing paver stones.  The former of the two were all roads leading nowhere but the first one was pretty good fortune.

It was a hotel owned by one of the big 3 Hotel Chains.  After 4 months of being a bartender and watching the utter useless, incompetent morons that run these hotels was a total shock.   I then got a opportunity to be F&B Manager in a 2nd tier city in China with the same hotel company.  With Alberta leaving a nasty taste in my mouth, I sold my shit, packed my bags and got the hell out of there as fast as I could.  

Hotel Industry Overview:

The 5-Star Luxury hotel industry is a huge industry filled with totally below average workers. Total deadbeats and beatniks, makes you sick to your stomach of how lazy these people are from all departments. With new 5 star hotels going up on almost a daily basis there is a severe lack of competent managers and a strong sales force.  This works to your advantage as it becomes one big poaching festival between the different hotel companies.  

Working as a Restaurant Manager in the Hyatt?  Marriott will offer you a F&B Manager or hell maybe even a Director position if you can bullshit yourself properly (more on that later).  These hotel companies value experience over degrees and most importantly for manager positions they value your face value.  Yes they are shallow.  If you are not in shape, repel woman and stutter then getting into one of these managerial positions will be hard.  You must look the part to get the part.

Note: This only applies to Hotels in exotic locations, and overseas cities.  They basically just want some eye candy to make there place look more legit.  


Now comes the point in the thread where I can hopefully steer some of you guys on why you should join.  If you love travelling like me for long duration's and love sleeping in 5-star bedrooms with complete amenities while not working very hard then the Hotel Industry might be for you.  You won't get rich but you will be able to explore the world, have time to work on yourself and your side business.  They will take care of the visas and all the paperwork.  They even pay for my Mandarin tutor for 4 hours a week. 


Process:

You could get lucky and get hired right off the bat into an awesome location with an awesome work package hopefully after following this post this is what happens.  But for the ones who are not so lucky here is the other most direct way.

-Get Hired by one of the Big Hotel Companies in your city, stay away from the smaller guys at first(more on this later) get a job in a department you can see yourself in. The big companies to work for are:  Starwood, Marriott, Hyatt, Wyndham, IHG Make sure the hotel is a 5 star one, this is a must other lower stars hotels will not have budget or the care to pay for the same packages.  Doesn't matter the position just get hired.  Although Note FOH (Front of House) and F&B (Food & Beverage)  and Sales positions are more likely to benefit you when you apply for a transfer as the other departments will always lean on low pay locals to do the technical stuff...like finance, maintenance etc. 

-Should go without saying, totally kill the position your in.  Be a Superstar which is pretty easy since these companies hire so many degenerates so standing out shouldn't be a problem. 

-During this time figure out the hotel transfer policies and kiss your HR ass (most likely an overweight divorcee lady) My first hotel had a policy that after 6 months you can apply for a transfer to a different location.  I however did the above steps and applied after 4 months and my bosses were cool with it because I was a hard worker and HR loved me because I gave them cake and pastries(no joke).

-Get on your hotels career website and start applying like mad man on meth.  687 positions opened for managers and above? Apply Apply Apply.

-Only apply for 5 star hotels

-Make sure your resume is on point(wouldn't hurt either to pay $80-100 and get a professional resume on upwork.com)

-Pass the interviews usually,  first email then phone, then skype. 

-Have all your documents ready and already scanned (Drivers license, passport, criminal record, 2 work references) 


Resume:


Note:  The following section might make some rubes and squares uneasy.  All you gotta know is that you have to give them what they are looking for which is.

Good looking (As best you can be), well spoken, charming, organized, multi-lingual individual who knows how to bullshit.  By bullshit I mean talking about different cities, cultures, food and food types, know your wines, whiskies, cocktails and beer.  The more languages you can pass off that you know the better.  


The most important thing to get your foot in the door.  Your Resume has to be on point.  No half ass resumes.  I made my best attempt at my resume then paid a top writer on upwork.com $90 USD to make my resume and cover letter become amazing.  Day and Night. Don't cheap out.


Have little to no hospitality experience?  Make it up. or Exaggerate the hell out of your resume and just have to get your story straight. Better to use small stand alone companies,  or places that went out of business. Go on LinkedIn find somebody in a position similar to what your applying and just pawn it off. 


Note: When I was hired as a bartender in first hotel they actually called two of my references (which were real).   On the second go around when I was already part of the company, the hotel I work for now didn't call anybody they didn't even call the hotel I was working at to check if I was a good worker...  Then when I was getting my visa I had to provide two reference letters.   Easy I wrote it myself and had it signed by Mr. Louie Fougazi and Sir Richard Snort Alot.  Once your in the system your gold.  They assume the other hotel did its homework so they don't have too.   


Write a top resume,  memorize it and have a copy handy when you are doing your interview.  


Interview

So you applied to over 100 positions overseas (Focusing on China, UAE, Qatar), have a super cool resume.  Expect to get a reply back in 3 weeks or less.  Anything longer is considered dead in the water and you have to keep looking.

When you do get a reply,  you must do everything in your power to get the interview appointment ASAP. HR people are lazy the first person that seems to fit profile will be the one they go with.  This was explained to me as they ate there pastries. 


Good things about skype interviews is that you have time to prepare.  Use stickies and paste them all over your desk.  Have a good 3-5 stories that show off your skills and expertise with the below examples.


A few questions they will probably ask


Tell me about yourself (TELL THEM ALL THE LANGUAGES YOU SPEAK! speak about your love for fine wines sprinkle in some food knowledge and  your a smooth operator with customers etc.. Also mention you have 0 kids and are Single. 


Tell me about a situation when you dealt with an upset customer, guest or

associate and were able to successfully resolve it.


Describe a stressful situation that tested your ability to stay calm and even‐tempered.

 

Tell me about how you have set a professional goal to grow as an associate and the steps you took to achieve that goal.


Describe a time when you suggested a better way of doing things


Describe a time when you anticipated that something would need to be done at work, even though you were not specifically asked to do it.


Keywords to sprinkle in on your interview on skype or phone.  Try and have some stories that revolve around these.


- A time when you Empowered Associates

-Play as a Team***

-Go Extra Step

-Do The Right Thing

-Drive Innovation

-What Sets you Apart***

-Going Above and Beyond with Guests


Note: If your a repped member on the forum or I have met in person send me a PM and I will give you a more detailed version, I just don't want these questions ending up on some glassdoor type of website. 


Say yes to whatever they ask you.  Once you get an official offer then you can negotiate as they already invested time in you so you will have more bargaining power.


Negotiating an Offer


I wish I have known about the negotiating process before I took my current contract.  I was desperate and in a hurry to GTFO out of Alberta so I quickly signed the papers and took what they gave me.  


So you passed the interview and they have emailed you a formal LOA or offer.  The big companies don't have much wiggle room especially for somebody who is off the street as they have guidelines to follow.   That being said they will also not low ball you and will give you your country of origin market rate.  Westerners, Europeans get top benefits. A standard package will include


-Airfare

-Accommodation

-Meals at there Restaurants

-Laundry and Dry Cleaning Service 

-Taxi Vouchers

-Local Cellphone


Instead of getting one of there guest bedrooms ask instead for a long term Residence Suite. Ask for a Allowance on Suits, additional meals.


Most importantly ask after the 90 probationary period how will your offer be revised aka increased. This was where I screwed up big time and now regret it.  


My offer was pretty standard.  For my next jump I plan on taking them for all they got as I got experience in the company now for some leverage.


Pros&Cons


Lets Start with some Cons first

-You can't be shuffling in 5-6's through the doors every night.  Your now an manager in the hotel, everyone at the front will know who you are and will judge you and gossip will spread.

-Living in the hotel means, they know where you are and where they can find you

-Can't be getting smashed and making the bellboy wheelchair you to your room

-The work although easy is very repetitive and boring.  Everyday im told a VIP is coming blah blah blah you must pretend to show interest. 

-This isn't a job to make filthy money,  that being said you get to travel and live in another country in pretty comfortable luxury. 



Pros:

Travel, Meet CEOs and other big shots of there respective companies if you can get a job offer from there all the power to you,  no need to worry about rent and utilities, Easy to tell ONS a bullshit story since your living in a hotel room ( no need to say you work there),  Pick up the hotties that come in your hotel bar and drink $27 martinis, time to focus on improving yourself, you get awesome hotel rates across the world.  For example I can stay in almost any hotels my company runs for $49 a night.


I will be honest and say this is not an industry or career I see myself in for the long haul.  I made a disaster of my finances with my previous business and this was a way to get my life and thoughts back in order.  I will use this time to build on my weak spots and really work on one of my side hustles. My next hotel Im looking at is in an area I want to launch my next business.


Companies to Work for and what to look for in a Hotel


Make sure the Hotel is less than 5 years old.  You want new employees, and a hotel that still has money in the bank so they don't really care about inventory, and headcounts so much.


Marriott #1 (they are expanding the fastest and need the most people)

Starwood (they have been bought by Marriott and have the coolest hotel brands)

IHG (the biggest but not even close to being the best)

Hyatt (loves hiring young dudes)

Wyndham 

Accor



Writing this post, I have been on tantan and drinking beer so if anything is unclear or needs more information just ask for a clarification.  


Hope this Helps some of you guys looking for an adventure!
03-29-2016 11:05 PM
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Sidney Crosby Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Good datasheet.

Repped
03-29-2016 11:33 PM
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DarkTriad Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Contributing members are good to see.
03-29-2016 11:39 PM
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polar Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Good data sheet. Pretty sure I posted on this in a thread about working on cruise ships.

The bennies in the luxury hotel industry are pretty good, if you're any good.

Discounts, if not outright free access to amenities (pool, golf, ski, tennis, what have you)... Maybe with some limitations (like peak hours) if you're blue collar and they don't want the guests to see riff raff.
If you're client facing and mid level or above (manager), they generally are ok with you being in guest areas during off hours as long as you're out of uniform.
Unless you're top management, you can take off unpaid in off-season and come back and have your old job back. I didn't myself, but a lot of guys I knew would go to Florida for the winter.
Often housing available (varies in quality), a subsidized employee caf, etc...
If you're client facing and are a highly qualified kiss-ass, you can make beaucoup bucks in tips.
Lots of turnover in the less-qualified labor (maids, waitresses, other seasonal)... Especially if housed onsite, fucking around is generally seen as business as usual in the service industry. Compare to corporate where you can't even look at anyone the wrong way.
Fucking clients: not on property. No comment.

Downside: pay is generally below average, but lifestyle can be good.

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03-30-2016 06:19 PM
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dro323 Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Beautiful data sheet, much appreciated.

I noticed you didn't mention Four Seasons, is there a particular reason you didn't put them in that luxury hotel category?

Also, would you mind giving an estimate in how much a restaurant manager or F&B director makes a year?

I'm currently in the front of the house at a luxury hotel & was considering going into management for the very same reasons you listed but have decided not to because I've been told you'd make very little in those positions.

Whereas a restaurant server/waiter at the hotel I work can easily make 100k with only 5 days a week 8 hour shifts.
03-30-2016 06:45 PM
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donnie514 Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Dro323. I have no experiance nor do I know anyone who has ever worked there. There are many smaller companies that are luxury and 5 or above stars. I just added the biggest as they have the highest turnover and like to shuffle employees around.

In Canada and USA waiters and bartenders Def make more money than the managers and maybe about same as director.

I wrote the thread mostly for guys who want to go experiance life in countries like China, Phillipines, UAE, Chile, or one of those exotic islands and make a bit of money in the process, while having a purpose in being there except to game girls. Teaching English is not the only option and far from the best.

Salaries differ widely on he country you go along with variables like experiance, qualifications and so on. My director in Alberta made 75k (he was indian with only a PR) and my buddies buddy in Montreal made around 90k. That being said you can go to UAE Get paid for around 65k and have it tax free and all expenses paid and your dealing with a higher quality clientele.
03-30-2016 08:18 PM
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Laurifer Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Wow, as a fellow oil patch victim, I'm gonna have to add this to my list of options.

I'm going back to school for a short time to study business management. I wonder if it might be worth it to get a part-time gig at a top five hotel at the same time.

+ rep
03-31-2016 01:36 PM
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donnie514 Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
If you go on the careers section Example: Go to Starwood and in the options menu select Interships. Look for the Management Trainee Program. It's usually either 6 months or 1 year (go for the 1 year).

They pay you minimun but give you some pretty sweet perks. (Only if you don't choose USA or Canada)

It's just what the name says. Your getting trained to be a manager in whatever department you choose. After contract boom your a manager now with experiance and useful to your company and can work anywhere in world without spending time and money on school plus with that trainee program hotels are going to love you.
04-01-2016 01:31 AM
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Will give this a more thorough read later just found the thread right before I started this morning. I'm currently a houseman at a fairly lugjurois hotel in Miami. (All of our rooms have balcanies, club membership is about 30-40 thousand a year) I'm curious about what type of opportunities I can get from houseman experience, the role seems relatively stagnent in terms of being able to grow. Recently saw a program in Australia that takes in employees from the US Canada and Western Europe. Now I'm seeing this, maybe it's a sign lol.

Any advice on what job I should be applying for abroad? This is my first hotel gig, and in two months I will have been doing it for a year. Pay is ALRIGHT barely.getting full time and health benefits along with paid vacation every year.
04-02-2016 09:12 AM
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donnie514 Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
If you want to apply as a Concierge, Front Desk or Lifestyle Specialist type of positions. this is what they are looking for. Tailor your resume to fit this and during interview make up stories that deal with these points.

internal or an external candidate. All candidates should possess the following skills, qualifications
and characteristics:

• A genuine personal passion for wellness that connects guests to Westin’s core values and
brand positioning.
• Extremely strong aptitude for customer service.
• Excellent interpersonal and problem resolution skills with an outgoing personality and
ability to work as part of a team as well as independently.
• Efficient communication and detail-oriented organization skills; ability to handle multiple
tasks at once and follow-up whenever needed.
• Enthusiastic self-starter with a pleasant personality and ability to exercise initiative.
• Strong leadership, communication, and influencing skills to engage others without requiring
direct authority.
• A strong spirit of collaboration. Willing to see others succeed and to share successes across
diverse teams.
• Ability to solicit, organize and recall information about customers especially including their
personal preferences and travel profile.
• Excellent decision-making abilities.
• Ability to communicate via phone, email, text, instant message, fax and manage
communications in cooperation with peers using proper business-level language skills.
• Flexible schedule in order to meet demands of hotel occupancy.
• High level knowledge of Microsoft Office applications, including Word, Excel and Outlook,
StarGuest, LightSpeed/Opera and/or various social media platforms.
• Previous experience with account management or relationship management roles
preferred.
• Must be in good standing with performance and attendance.


QCD: I will be honest Houseman isn't that great. If your company is bigger I would try and get new position if not apply to others companies and scratch that position just use what you know and just Say you were banquets captain, supervisor or something like that. Also note if you move to China (most likely overseas place they will hire) you would effectively be getting same or even slightly lower salary but you get the added perks.

All of the big companies have programs that train you to be a manager to there own standards. These are a lot easier to get into if you don't have right experiance because you make a trade. You give your time and talent for a very low pay and in return they give you a title and experiance you can use once contract is over.

Also for the PMs I will answer everyone but the forum acts up and makes it hard for me to post as my VPNs are not working very well.
04-03-2016 02:10 AM
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
I love these unorthodox data sheets.

Good stuff. Wouldn't have considered this, but you opened my eyes to it.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
04-03-2016 03:47 AM
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donnie514 Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Another tip.

Before the opening of a hotel they hire the managers and upper levels 5-7 months before opening date. Also hotels that just open and realize they hired incompetents or missing are a good bet too. An example of this would be the new St Regis in Malaysia.

If you go on the hotels websites you can find future opening hotels.

These hotels have cash in the bank and want to Make a bang. It is the best time to apply if you have little to no hotel experiance.
04-08-2016 01:53 AM
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
the question is how do we get in without decent hospitality experience? not everyone has a bunch of years working in upscale bars.

Also for these international positions how much can you lie?
04-11-2016 10:33 PM
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
@Donnie514 What would be a rough estimate of the national average pay in the U.S? Do you get to stay in the hotel rent free? How many hours do you usually work per week and at what times do you normally work?

Growth Over Everything Else.
04-18-2016 08:21 PM
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polar Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Glassdoor.com
Usually there are employee dorms at large hotels and cruise ships, etc - nowhere as luxurious and not really accessible to public, but they will get the job done. Ditto for cafeteria. You're likely to still have access to some sort of recreational facilities though, but either during off peak hours and in regular clothes, or different ones entirely vs. the guests. Potential exception if you're an entertainer.

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04-18-2016 09:37 PM
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donnie514 Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
I wouldn't bother with these jobs in the USA or Canada or even Europe (Unless Resort..maybe). They won't give you the packages I'm talking about.

you can find better work in other industry's. I think hotel work is good if your looking for an adventure abroad in some 3rd world place. where English is almost non existent.

Depends on department, position, location etc I dot want to give an estimate for fear it can be totally wrong. So take in mind when I say a manager of an outlet is making around 50k usd in North America. (With 0 perks I mentioned in thread)

I just looked at glass door. There salaries look legit at least for North America. I was making around 4500 CAD after tips working in that Edmonton hotel. I made more than my manager.
04-18-2016 10:07 PM
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
This seems especially great if you can get a bartending gig at one of these hotels.
04-24-2016 04:52 PM
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Thanks for the informative post. What languages are the most useful for this industry?
05-13-2016 09:53 PM
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Veloce Offline
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
Solid datasheet, repped

I've never worked in hotels abroad but several in the U.S. (5 star properties)

These jobs are fun as line level employees, learning the ropes as a dishwasher, bartender, line cook, bell staff, etc. You can party with and fuck whoever you want with little repercussions.

Being a manager is different, you're held to a higher standard, and you can get shitcanned for blinking the wrong way. It was ironic to me that most line staff are on a gravy train and don't give a shit about their job, and wind up doing the same shit for 20 years, while you've got some passionate managers that get fired every 6 months for having one drink on the job or fucking the hostess or "creative differences".

I've worked with a number of upper management that worked their way up from bell staff or front desk staff. I'm a broken record about this but if you have no formal education, hospitality can be a great way to go. There are servers in my company making 6 figures working at our steakhouse restaurants. Most of them complete dipshits but they have game.

The highest grossing server where I work now? Absolutely nothing remarkable about him when it comes to looks, intelligence, or work ethic. But the guy has game and he can sell. Isn't afraid to sell the $75 steak or the $500 bottle of wine. He'll tack on apps and desserts and gets the highest check average and customers love him for it. He gets the highest tip percentage out of all the servers. If you've got game, hospitality can be very rewarding.

A lot of hotel and restaurant groups also have "task force" teams, where you help open properties all over the globe but aren't required to stay there. I'm doing this in China next month for a few weeks. Company paid my visa, air fare, cab, food, all expenses, putting me up in a pretty sweet $250/night private studio in the middle of Shanghai. Can't complain

"...so I gave her an STD, and she STILL wanted to bang me."

TEAM NO APPS

TEAM PINK
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2016 11:21 PM by Veloce.)
05-13-2016 11:17 PM
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RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
(05-13-2016 11:17 PM)Veloce Wrote:  Solid datasheet, repped

I've never worked in hotels abroad but several in the U.S. (5 star properties)

These jobs are fun as line level employees, learning the ropes as a dishwasher, bartender, line cook, bell staff, etc. You can party with and fuck whoever you want with little repercussions.

Being a manager is different, you're held to a higher standard, and you can get shitcanned for blinking the wrong way. It was ironic to me that most line staff are on a gravy train and don't give a shit about their job, and wind up doing the same shit for 20 years, while you've got some passionate managers that get fired every 6 months for having one drink on the job or fucking the hostess or "creative differences".

I've worked with a number of upper management that worked their way up from bell staff or front desk staff. I'm a broken record about this but if you have no formal education, hospitality can be a great way to go. There are servers in my company making 6 figures working at our steakhouse restaurants. Most of them complete dipshits but they have game.

The highest grossing server where I work now? Absolutely nothing remarkable about him when it comes to looks, intelligence, or work ethic. But the guy has game and he can sell. Isn't afraid to sell the $75 steak or the $500 bottle of wine. He'll tack on apps and desserts and gets the highest check average and customers love him for it. He gets the highest tip percentage out of all the servers. If you've got game, hospitality can be very rewarding.

A lot of hotel and restaurant groups also have "task force" teams, where you help open properties all over the globe but aren't required to stay there. I'm doing this in China next month for a few weeks. Company paid my visa, air fare, cab, food, all expenses, putting me up in a pretty sweet $250/night private studio in the middle of Shanghai. Can't complain

Do you need any formal training to be a line cook or is it something that can be learned as a rookie cook?
05-07-2019 11:02 AM
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mr-ed209 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
I spent a good chunk of time in hospitality, pretty much part time during college until i hit 25. Somehow landed a management gig at a luxury resort hotel in Japan a winter ago.

Veloce your right. The line end staff have the best jobs, minimal responsibility, little work place politics etc; they also earn not much less than management. My 2 hospo jobs as manager basically put me under direct line with the owners, which places a huge pressure on you to conform to whatever sort of person they want to be the face of their establishment. The last place was owned by a syndicate of gay Australian millionaires (not a joke). Having dinners with them i had to clue myself up on pretentious wines and luxury watches to fit the mould (as if anyone could give a shit)..

Server jobs with good tip potential seem to be the best option. I knew guys who bartended in resort town restaurants and hotels making arround $60k for 3-4 nights work a week. Although their jobs are hard to get a hold of, as no one ever wants to leave them.
06-07-2019 07:15 PM
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scotian Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
The OP of this thread randomly messaged me the other week on whatsapp to tell me that he’s at a hotel job on a luxury island where rooms go for $1800/night, I won’t say the exact country to respect his privacy but it’s in the Indian Ocean near Africa and looks like a pretty amazing place to be based for a few months. Good job bro!

Don’t sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.
06-07-2019 07:36 PM
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Kelent Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Live and Work Abroad with the Luxury Hotel industry
I'm really happy for the OP. As someone who's doing kitchen work (as a dishwasher, but I still do prep and talk shit about gastronomy with the small crew we have) I can definitely see myself using it as leverage abroad. It won't make me rich, but the fact is I'm young, have the experience, and think I can handle it. Once I get my degree, whatever I do, I know that putting in the time in this industry will help me out long term whether in terms of building character or getting my foot in the door at a high-end restaurant or hotel. The guys I'm working with, oddly enough, told me they left their 5-star hotel gigs because they weren't cooking unless it was a set menu. Is there any way to pivot from BOH to FOH work when going abroad with these companies? I've heard it can be very tough, but if I have to get it done, so be it.
06-08-2019 09:12 AM
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