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Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
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WestIndianArchie Offline
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Post: #1
Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
Or is there anything to be said for the LTR from the very beginning model?

For the new players, after a successful bang you put the girl into rotation but limit your contact to max once a week. If after more sack time, she passes your stringent requirements, then you spend more time with her outside of hooking up. The spending time equals relationship.

WIA
03-31-2016 02:12 PM
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Ensam Offline
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
Yes, I have a hard time being in an LTR with a girl who's hooked up with other guys after we got involved. I don't expect or ask for monogamy from FBs but it pretty much puts them out of the running for LTRs.
03-31-2016 02:52 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
Curious to what people have to say as im dealing with something like this right now. Weve been fucking literally nightly for the last few weeks but ive also been taking her on hikes, out to eat, bonding, etc.

Basically zero heavy shit tests until last night (last day of her period, i had been letting her stay over and give me head or shower sex) she flakes for the first time and is giving off bratty vibes. After the flake text i stupidly call her, thinking i would mentally strongarm her over since i wanted to bone after the period nonsense. She refuses and gives me attitude, not saying outright but kind of implying things were done. I had been taking tequila shots so was a little emotional and kind of called her out on being a little shit after things had been going well.I End the phone call with a retarded melodramatic "have a good life" and hanging up.

This morning i wake up to an email from her chatting away like nothing had happened.


Where i have fucked up so far i think is :

Seeming too available since im out of school for break and not working much, ghosting on slut plates since this one is sexier and is relationship material.i had been wanting to get at her for ages but i lived in a different state until recently.

Doing pussy shit like hand holding walking around, let her drag me to her parents and introduce me

Doing too much shit with her outside sex ie letting her sleep over on the rag. Basically acting like a boyfriend when we havent even been boning a month.

Drunkenly falling into her pms drama bullshit instead of just laughing and hanging up.


I have had three, ~3 year relationships and all of them started basically like this where i take the reins from the beginning and hang out a lot but with them i treated them more like fuck toys rather than taking them to do stuff all the time.

School starts soon so ill be back around a few side girls and new prospects so after the disrespect last night im back burnering this
Little munchkin, i was just shellshocked by the pussy she is half white half spanish, 5'3, 100 lbs with c cups and a great face and sucks dick like a vaccuum cleaner. Didnt reply to her today and going to go dark until she begs me for attention.

So basically "ltr" from the beginning would be ideal, but fuck buddies lets the chick wonder and chase a little more so is probably more effective. Its a balancing act either way, gonna go smash some different pussy and take some mushrooms in the woods with my boys and let this midget stew for a bit.
03-31-2016 02:58 PM
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Svoboda Offline
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
I believe it depends how long you've been fuckbuddies. Anything less than a year wouldn't be much of a problem (see next point)
What you believe is a fuckbuddy situation, could be seen or hamsterized as a "on the way to something serious" situation by the chick.
I remember mentioning: we're fuckbuddies, to a fuckbuddy of mine, it changed her whole mindset towards how eager and willing to go out of her way to see me. Lesson learned, don't tell a girl she's you're fuckbuddy, keeping things a bit ambiguous pays (unless she mentions it first).

Side note about Fuckbuddies: If you have to categorize the relation/contact I believe friends with benefits lands better with chicks than the term fuckbuddy. I generally avoid it and keep it ambiguous but if I have to I tend to use the word (really good) friend(s) to girls that are a plate.
03-31-2016 03:21 PM
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Vincent Chase Offline
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
(03-31-2016 03:21 PM)Svoboda Wrote:  Side note about Fuckbuddies: If you have to categorize the relation/contact I believe friends with benefits lands better with chicks than the term fuckbuddy. I generally avoid it and keep it ambiguous but if I have to I tend to use the word (really good) friend(s) to girls that are a plate.

I would suggest to highly avoid using both "fuckbuddy" and "friends with benefits" (which have the same meaning). If she asks "what are we?" the correct answer is "monkeys".

Regarding the question at hand yes there are disadvantages with being a fuck buddy initially with the girl. Some girls want to see commitment early on, and want you to take them to dinner on a second/third date. They may not take you seriously if you just have sex with them continuously and may view you as someone who is a playboy rather than someone to be around with for more than just sex. So certainly they may look around (completely passively) while you fuck them on the side.

That being said the fuck buddy strategy for all intents and purposes is generally the best to use. It hasn't failed me yet.
03-31-2016 05:26 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
Not sure I fully understand the question. Pretty sure just about all modern relationships follow this format nowadays:

meet > casually hang and fuck for non-specific amount of time > put a label on it or part ways

No one does LTR from the onset anymore. It's all this non-serious casual fuckfest that may or may not roll into a bf/gf deal.

I haven't had a "girlfriend" for almost 4 years, but I've certainly spent time "dating" girls. Thats what it's called now.

Now, if you are talking about a strict booty call becoming a serious relationship, well thats a horse of a different color.
03-31-2016 05:29 PM
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MY DETROIT PLAYAS Offline
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
Most guys need that initial fb stage for determining compatibility and feeling each other out. It's almost counterproductive because the very essence of a fwb is someone with whom you spend minimal time discussing trivial matters in between sexual relations. Ideally neither person wants to get too deep for fear of scaring off the other. As guys could probably leave things in the ambiguous stage until absolutely forced to do otherwise.

More LTR things like getting intel on the family, learning about the environment in which she grew up, and finding out her REAL views on gender roles takes a backseat to just "hanging out".

A potential downside is that you miss certain read flags when everything is about the lay. An inexperienced guy may overlook certain domestic skills of a sex partner because within the context of such an involvement these things aren't needed or on display.

This can just be a matter of experience, when a guy has had his share of both successes and failures it's possible to draw certain parallels and contrasts. Each new time out hopefully he is able to get closer to his ideal match because of having the benefit of drawing on previous scenarios.

The most successful straight to LTR guys tend to be older since many times they have come out of long marriages or a series of short relationships and by now they are in tuned with what they can and can't live with in a woman.

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03-31-2016 06:39 PM
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WeekendCasanova Offline
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
(03-31-2016 05:29 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Not sure I fully understand the question. Pretty sure just about all modern relationships follow this format nowadays:

meet > casually hang and fuck for non-specific amount of time > put a label on it or part ways

No one does LTR from the onset anymore. It's all this non-serious casual fuckfest that may or may not roll into a bf/gf deal.

I haven't had a "girlfriend" for almost 4 years, but I've certainly spent time "dating" girls. Thats what it's called now.

Now, if you are talking about a strict booty call becoming a serious relationship, well thats a horse of a different color.

This is accurate.

I have noticed, however, that I've been with a few girls recently who clearly want to be with me for an LTR, but I said no; what proceeded was them "agreeing" to being casual.

Just because a girl agrees to be a FB with you, doesn't mean she's necessarily going to hook up with other men. She could just like you so much that while she doesn't want you to see anyone else, she fears that if she comes off as too needy, you'll ditch her anyways.

I wouldn't exclude a girl from being in the running for a LTR because she agrees to be casual with me, because I know that in some cases, it's just the girl doing what you say to keep you around because she really likes you.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2016 10:04 PM by WeekendCasanova.)
03-31-2016 09:58 PM
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FireStarter Offline
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
There's a couple of downsides to going from a casual relationship to a monogamous one. One is telling all your other girls that you won't be seeing them anymore. It's nowhere near as bad as a real breakup, but you're still rejecting the other chicks. They'll probably get over it quickly, but in the short term they're going to be hurt that your actions told them they're only good for sex and not a relationship.

It's not a huge deal and it shouldn't stop you from a LTR. But I don't enjoy hurting girls who have done nothing wrong to me.

Also, I agree 100% with WeekendCasanova, just because you're seeing multiple girls, doesn't mean they're all seeing other men. A lot of girls will say they're happy with a friends with benefits situation, but really they're just hoping to be the one picked for a relationship.
03-31-2016 10:39 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
IMO, with enough social calibration from experience, you can quickly figure out which girls are casual material, and which ones are LTR material.

With casual girls, you get the sense that this ain't their first rodeo. Their reactions, their body language, their vocal intonation, etc - they're not that nervous.

In contrast, with truly LTR girls, you get the sense that they're nervous, because they're relatively inexperienced. Most importantly, however, both you and her remain skeptical of each other, because both of your aims with this other person are LTRs, rather than something casual.

The above, of course, assumes you live in a place where you can get enough experience not just with casual girls, but with girls with LTR mindsets. Sadly, that really isn't the West anymore.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 04:08 AM by 262.)
04-01-2016 04:08 AM
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WestIndianArchie Offline
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
(03-31-2016 02:58 PM)LongDongSilver Wrote:  So basically "ltr" from the beginning would be ideal, but fuck buddies lets the chick wonder and chase a little more so is probably more effective. Its a balancing act either way, gonna go smash some different pussy and take some mushrooms in the woods with my boys and let this midget stew for a bit.

Well if you met the parents, it's definitely LTR status.

Now that she's acting up, you gotta do a few things

- tell her she's fucking up
- pull back

"I don't do drama, so I'm not dealing with this. Hit me up when you calm down"

Then ghost.

And literally go out that night and hit on other chicks.

Your pimp hand weakens when you only got one chick © Patrice O'Neal.

It's easier to keep one chick by keeping a lot of chicks around.

But if all you have is the one, you have to withdraw your attention when she fucks up, let her know why you did it.

And you'll have to pull back every time she does some shit in order to basically let her know that you aren't taking any of her bullshit.

That's why having other chicks, or other shit in your life that's more important than the broad is so powerful. It occupies your mind.

WIA
04-01-2016 11:49 AM
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WestIndianArchie Offline
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
(03-31-2016 05:29 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Not sure I fully understand the question. Pretty sure just about all modern relationships follow this format nowadays:

meet > casually hang and fuck for non-specific amount of time > put a label on it or part ways

No one does LTR from the onset anymore. It's all this non-serious casual fuckfest that may or may not roll into a bf/gf deal.

I haven't had a "girlfriend" for almost 4 years, but I've certainly spent time "dating" girls. Thats what it's called now.

Now, if you are talking about a strict booty call becoming a serious relationship, well thats a horse of a different color.

Regular guys do it all the time.

The question is essentially, are there any potential downsides to the player way of doing things.

I'm of the general frame of mind that doing A means you aren't doing B-Z. And there might be something good in B-Z.

WIA
04-01-2016 11:51 AM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
I had an LTR and during that time I'd say I had 2 mini relationships with other women.

Those girls were definitely fuck buddies, then they claimed they weren't fucking anyone else but me.

I never committed to them.

Quote:Your pimp hand weakens when you only got one chick © Patrice O'Neal.

It's easier to keep one chick by keeping a lot of chicks around.

I mostly agree with this, and a woman would rather be with a man who can get women, than a man who can't get any.

The only emotion I had was with my LTR, the others were just fun.

I cut both those mini relationships.

I think the downside of doing the player way of things is:

-Desensitization - your emotions are more cold and calculated
-Red pill views - once you've disconnected there's no turning back
-Monogamy - the older you get the more and more this is out of the question
-Marraige - the more you play, the more you see marriage and children out of the equation
-LTR - you stop having ltr's and just "date"

After playing the field in the last few years, I truly can say, I'm more cool and calculated with women. Don't get me wrong I'm all about positive vibes and enjoy women.

BUT, I don't see marriage or children anytime soon.

I don't want an LTR because I don't want to wast her time or mine, especially with her clock ticking.

Banging multiple girls and knowing you can, why and how you can stay monogamous ?

You know, sometimes I'll have a flash of emotion - being with a beautiful babe and in a relationship. Then I realize maybe it's not for me.

Note: My views and feelings are constantly developing so who knows how I'll be a year from now.

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04-01-2016 12:30 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
(04-01-2016 11:51 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  The question is essentially, are there any potential downsides to the player way of doing things.

I'm of the general frame of mind that doing A means you aren't doing B-Z. And there might be something good in B-Z.

WIA

Well most chicks expect monogamy in a "serious" long-term relationship. Thus, if you're a player who believes in always having enough strange to go around, then this will likely create a problem at one point or another.

Either you abstain from hooking up with other girls to honor your exclusive status with your girl and risk weakening your game and developing scarcity, or you fuck around and risk getting caught or causing a shitstorm of drama and maybe losing your girl.

It's a bit of a catch 22.

Another downside is "ruining a good thing." If the FB status is working out well for you and your lifestyle and this particular girl is great fun on a surface level, it may not be prudent to get more involved. I know I've personally had my share of plates that were best kept as plates, and some of them wanted to get closer and I'm glad I didn't oblige and cut them loose. To that same token, I have gone out with a couple girls that I definitely should have just kept banging casually. It's important to recognize what is best for yourself and realistically weight the pros and cons of options that come your way.

Another phenomenon, which was also touched upon, is the nature of starting off as a casual, non-serious purely sexual relationship lends itself to never being taken that seriously. Like you both have possibly been seeing other people for the duration of your non-exclusive tenure, and the move to LTR status is merely convenience and perceived lack of options - and better options may come along later so you both treat the LTR as more of a "bookmark" keeping your eyes and ears open. That may sound like a stretch but I've been there...
04-01-2016 12:59 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
I don't let FBs progress to the LTR point anymore. It's happened in the past and I always regret it.

Most girls aren't content with being an FB forever, after a long enough time they either want to end it or progress with it. Now I always end it if it gets to that point.

I truly enjoy the company of the girls I sleep with regularly, but I just can't see any upside to being in an LTR at the moment.
04-04-2016 11:40 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
Update.. Ignored her for a few days, banged side bitch and hit the streets hard with my buddies. Ignored the hamsteresque/bait email and texts and texted her "get ur little ass over gonna fuck some sense into u" at 11pm saturday.she was here within the hour.

I never read about game until this last year, the thing i have found most helpful is FRAME all the way. Instead of playing into their bullshit and pointless arguments just hold frame, girls are all over the place with their emotional shennanigans, just ignore and weather the storm then let them know what the deal is.
04-05-2016 03:43 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
...
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2016 04:40 PM by XXL.)
04-05-2016 04:34 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
Good job, but let me take what you did a step further.

- went ghost
- bagged a new chick
- recharged your masculine energy by chilling with your brosephs.
- ignored her drama

All A+ textbook game, Tariq Nasheed would be proud.

Then you texted her.

You got the bang, will get more bangs, but did you get at the root of the problem?

Because now your pattern is
- she fucks up
- she sends a bunch of texts
- you call her for sex

So the next time she fucks up, it will be in the same fashion or similar, she knows that she can just wait a bit, send some texts and you'll want her pussy again.

That's her power, that's their primary power. When you meet a girl that you want to chill with more than fuck, that's a problem...I digress

The missing part is teaching her that her actions have consequences.

It will never be enough for the male ego to just replace one hole with another. You want this girl and every girl to know that the privilege of spending time with you comes with responsibilities, things outside of the bedroom.

So after the next bang, you have to bring this shit up.

I like this thing we have
Or
We gotta good thing going
Or
What's up with that craziness last week, if you want to stay cool with me.....

She needs to tie together how you respond when she fucks up.

And most of all you're not bullying, you're saying to her, this is what I'm offering you. You're free to go, you're not free to treat me like you treat other guys..

I wouldn't do any sexy spanking either cause chicks love to rile their man up so she can get a hate fuck out of him.

Otherwise flawless, but if you're going to have one chick or a dozen, you have to give consequences to their behavior.

In general this makes your life drama free, not because girls suddenly down with the program. It's drama free because you now have a consistent way to deal with your harem. That certainty? That resolve, that is how you build a real frame, not just be stubborn.

WIA

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04-05-2016 04:38 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
(03-31-2016 02:12 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Or is there anything to be said for the LTR from the very beginning model?

For the new players, after a successful bang you put the girl into rotation but limit your contact to max once a week. If after more sack time, she passes your stringent requirements, then you spend more time with her outside of hooking up. The spending time equals relationship.

WIA

Been wanting to get to your thread WIA since you started it. Here are my notes on this stuff:

1. FB never truly respect each other. Can you give an example to prove me wrong? Now when I say respect, I do not mean as a human being. That is a given. I'm talking about as a loving spouse you are willing to trust with your life.

2. A FB is a FB for a reason. Let's channel our inner Jariel for a min. A FB can often be a loser female with nothing special going on. The draw in of a fling is akin to we are stuck on this elevator, might as well share the wine I bought from the store. No strings attached? Strings are not ropes.... which leads to number 3.

3. LTRs are almost always at a very minimum a hopeful endeavor at something that can signify a promise at a better <fill in the blank>. That said, some LTR are pure contracts for business or power, but more on that in a min.

4. FB and contractual relationships are about using one another for particualar goals. A simple nut. Political power. Corporate power. Money works too. Some women use FB relationships as pre-validation game or leverage against others. Think cougars, etc. although plenty need the release due to raging hormonal changes.

5. Lastly FB stuff is 100% pure convenience. There is alot less convenience in an LTR and very little to none in a marriage at times.

What do you guys think about these?

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04-05-2016 08:30 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
(04-05-2016 08:30 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Been wanting to get to your thread WIA since you started it. Here are my notes on this stuff:

When Traveler Kai speaks, pull up a chair and listen!

(04-05-2016 08:30 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  1. FB never truly respect each other. Can you give an example to prove me wrong? Now when I say respect, I do not mean as a human being. That is a given. I'm talking about as a loving spouse you are willing to trust with your life.

Indeed.

(04-05-2016 08:30 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  2. A FB is a FB for a reason. Let's channel our inner Jariel for a min. A FB can often be a loser female with nothing special going on. The draw in of a fling is akin to we are stuck on this elevator, might as well share the wine I bought from the store. No strings attached? Strings are not ropes.... which leads to number 3.

You know how they say that a woman knows whether or not she wants to fuck a dude in 5 seconds, I'd say with guys, we know within 5 seconds whether or not we want to even put a girl in that "somebody special box".

For me at least, a lot of it isn't even about the physical. A thin slice of her behavior is usually all you need to know.

The player's dilemma is whether or not he's gonna let the Devil push him to "sin" anyway. You know the deal with a lot of chicks upfront, but that devil, that inner white knight that you haven't killed completely resurrects.

Especially if the sex makes you lazy about the hunt.

(04-05-2016 08:30 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  3. LTRs are almost always at a very minimum a hopeful endeavor at something that can signify a promise at a better <fill in the blank>. That said, some LTR are pure contracts for business or power, but more on that in a min.

You get that sense early on.

(04-05-2016 08:30 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  4. FB and contractual relationships are about using one another for particualar goals. A simple nut. Political power. Corporate power. Money works too. Some women use FB relationships as pre-validation game or leverage against others. Think cougars, etc. although plenty need the release due to raging hormonal changes.

Damn.

(04-05-2016 08:30 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  5. Lastly FB stuff is 100% pure convenience. There is alot less convenience in an LTR and very little to none in a marriage at times.

What do you guys think about these?

Yeah, it's convenient casual sex. It's like getting a massage to be honest, if it weren't for the social stigma and stakes...

Good shit as always

WIA
04-06-2016 07:06 PM
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RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
Wia i appreciate the breakdown, you are dripping with game, every post i read is pn point from you. I dont have a computer right now and type from my phone so some of my posts are shorter than i would like.

My frame definition i guess was a little off, i just meant not playing into whatever bullshit a bitch cooks up in their little brain and fighting with them giving them ammo. I made that mistke with some exes, sometimes its better to not even give them the attention, albeit negative, by fighting with them.

I have this girl wrapped around my finger now, after sex is damn near a therapy session i have my fingers clasped around her little bird brain.

I normally wouldnt move as quick, we both jave known each other for a while though and i dates her friend and boned her cousin. Thats what she was tripping on initially but has been well behaved since.
04-08-2016 04:00 PM
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redbeard Online
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Post: #22
RE: Any downside to the FB to LTR progression?
I love the player approach. My game is always developing and I don't have to worry about getting rusty. I build mini relationships and then bang other girls on the side. Whenever I go a while without seeing my "girlfriend" I come back to her refreshed and relaxed. I don't worry about girls leaving me, I usually have to un-pick them up after a while.

What's the worst that could happen? When you're juggling multiple girls, not committing anything, the worst thing is that they leave because they want commitment. I've had this happen a few times, they never really say "I need something else. Bye." They just get the gist that I'm banging other girls and slowly fade out. But - I could easily get back with them and say I want something serious, and be back in the sack.

Standard approach = after you bang a girl, remain monogamous (just in case she finds out!) without saying anything, see her more and more each week, after a few months ask if she'll be your girlfriend, then tell her you love her.

Many reasons why this progression isn't beneficial..she has the upper hand, you're dependent on her for sex. You really don't "play the field." Guys will start banging a girl and even if monogomy isn't established, they won't bang side pieces for fear of getting caught. They like the regular sex too much, have a scarcity mindset towards sex, and do whatever they can to keep the girl around.

Patrice O'Neal has discussed a few times that pimpin' is like to running a business, managing employees. When a girl first joins the team, she starts in the mailroom AKA the Tuesday 4 AM blowjob spot. If she behaves well, she'll be promoted to Wednesday 5 PM Netflix and fuck. Maybe she'll play her cards right and get some weekend time.

Following the metaphor further - the standard approach to dating is like running a small business. You can constantly use help, but don't have the capital or availability to hire. You post a ton of job openings on Monster.com, but no one recognizes the name, the salary offer is too low to draw interest, and you can't afford spam bots for publicity. *If and when* someone applies for the job, you rush to make sure they're interested, take them out and try to impress the candidate. You are selling the job to the candidate. The application funnel is small, so even if the candidate has a few tattoos and a rocky past, you'll make it work.

The player approach is Goldman Sachs. Candidates prepare *years* for their interview. They put on their best dress and practice what lines to say. There are hundreds of competitors from the same university, not even including every university in the world, all online applications, and MBA students hoping to get a late start in finance. The funnel is hyuuuuuge. Even after hours of networking and interviewing, candidates get in and are....junior analysts. They get shit on daily and are glorified slaves, staying up all hours of the night checking page numbers, sleeping 3 hours, slamming coke just to pay attention, PRAYING for a promotion. The junior analysts can leave at any time and there are a million right behind them. The VP's do not care.

(04-01-2016 11:51 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I'm of the general frame of mind that doing A means you aren't doing B-Z. And there might be something good in B-Z.

Kaotic outlined the downsides of player approach, but we all have taken the red pill and will not be going back.

As to the positives of standard approach...I see very few, the exception being when a girl falls for you hard AND is a traditional girl who doesn't deal well with player allegations.

99% of American girls assume we're fucking other girls...and don't care. The 1% might be disgusted by that and want us to settle down, or is uncomfortable with giving up sex without commitment.

I like the player FB to LTR progression. It sets the frame that she's auditioning for you, not vice versa.

1 Year NoFap Veteran --- No Days Off in Trump's America
04-10-2016 02:57 PM
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