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True Passive Income Investments
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Travesty Offline
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Post: #26
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Had a couple hundred bucks in Lending Club for 6 months. Still earning 20% return. No defaults yet. D to F grade loans. The default curve says on 3-year notes it will balance out to 6% by the end of 3 years due to defaults. Gone pretty damn strong so far though.

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04-04-2017 02:49 PM
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Oilrig Offline
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Post: #27
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Yes annually but you get paid quarterly. BP and Shell both returning 7% dividends now right now and their stocks are cheap. If you think the price of oil will go up in a year or two both are great investments for the dividends and ROI.
04-04-2017 07:32 PM
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britchard Offline
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Post: #28
RE: True Passive Income Investments
(04-04-2017 07:32 PM)Oilrig Wrote:  Yes annually but you get paid quarterly. BP and Shell both returning 7% dividends now right now and their stocks are cheap. If you think the price of oil will go up in a year or two both are great investments for the dividends and ROI.

What's your estimate on the time it will take for oil prices to recover? If they are high % dividend stocks then my main concern would be the price falling any further...

I think I'm going to jump on the funding circle boat.
04-05-2017 03:54 AM
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Travel Museums Offline
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Post: #29
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Why do you want passive income? Are you planning to travel and stay disconnected until its tax time?

That's what I've done. So I keep it really really simple. 3-5 index etf funds and some dividend blue chips. My time is too valuable to waste it micromanaging. Even experts rarely beat these funds. None do it consistently.

If you're not going to do that (and you're goals allow) you might want to take on more risk. I assume you're asking means you have little capital and experience. Therefore you should pay attention to your money for a few years anyway.

And to be honest how much valuable is your time really? You probably have those few extra hours each week if you stop fooling around online.

I've hit gold while abroad by touching base online. There's apps for everything. It's a push of a few buttons really. Just dont game yourself on market trends instead of concentrating on rock solid value.

I monitor any new investment. You don't just plunk money down and walk away. Even if you buy the top 100 global brands or an S&P index fund. If it's a new investment, broker, etc you monitor it.

Example. Schwab ran a marketing ad saying $500 bonus* for funding a brokerage account. *New customer only, graded $50 per $10k up to $500. Maybe its ongoing? You may want to check.

So I plunk $100,000 into a bunch of new brokerage accounts. I'm not a new customer but these are new accounts. I call Schwab and spend an hour on the phone bullshitting with a greenhorn reading a script about how I'll get the $500 for funding the accounts even if I don't make a single trade. Thank you! Record name, date, time of call.

A few months later no bonuses. So I call and email and escalate until it's verified that my call took place BUT I was given bad info. But they still have to honor that or I can sue for way more. I don't even have to mention this. I know it. They know it. And boom the bonuses hit my account.

Fucking love Schwab. They just lowered their trades to $6. Make a call and get the right person they'll even give you a code to let you trade vanguard etfs at that price (not really worth it for more than a 1-2 funds that vanguard has an edge with; which is why Schwab will allow this in order to keep you on their ship).

Risk can give a higher return but the volalitility requires attention or you have bigger losses. If it's a market downturn, war, whatever then even your attention won't do much. So moderate to high risk investments are not passive.

Therefore you want low risk investments. Blue Chip Dividends and ETF index funds are the only two I'd invest in. They probably aren't going to lose value in the long run.

An exception might be if you have a trusted friend or family member who can manage the risk jointly. Not FOR you, but JOINTLY. That way their interests are completely aligned with yours. But you need to trust them with your financial affairs completely. This would be a parent, sibling, spouse, lifelong friend. Even then people get fucked over.

The idea of investing in huge blue chips (regardless of dividends) is that they are doing all the work for you. They have thousands of in house people monitoring trends, markets, lobbying politicians, even writing the actual laws to make sure there products/services continue to have dependable and inherent value.

We are addicted to oil, telecoms, most global consumable products. One thing I will not do is invest in emerging markets. Not even other industrialized countries if I can help it. I don't want to spend my time in Japan worrying about a nuclear submarine contract or the NIKKEI. I want to hanami and make Japanese girls squeak during sex.

But the real problem is I'm not nearly as familiar with these economies as the US where I grew up. And even China lacks the brawn to make sure geopolitics ALWAYS align with their economic interests.

Your tax dollars are paying for the US industrial complex to chug along shrugging off schmuck dictators and derailing outside foreign trade treaties that try to circumvent our interests. So invest in the USA.

The only thing you MAY want to do is buy a slice of Paraguay or whatever country the bushes quietly bought up. I don't follow that shit. Was it Uruguay? I don't believe in zombie apocalypses.

Diversify passively. A company like Coca Cola was also selling 99 year bonds but the return is lower than owning stock. Corporate, government, state, municipal bonds are a nice diversification that runs inverse to other market trends. Low risk, low return, very passive. Just don't invest in the wrong state or city. Was it Detroit that defaulted? I think a bunch of rust belt cities did.

Again, I refuse to follow that news. It's serious stuff that puts hard working people's lives at risk. But from my passive investment strategy it's white noise. In 2008-2009 I lived in a van and ate free samples at Costco. I'm not worried about making lifestyle meet my passive income. I'm not a tinder tranny who thinks it's all five star hotels with no work. I understand that by being "lazy" I may need to live in a third world slum every winter. Whatever.

There's also weird bond rules that can make the taxes and accounting problematic depending on where you claim residency. It should be FL, give yourself a ten percent raise by eliminating state income tax. You also only need a new DL every 10 years. If your grandparents live there already you don't even need to own the property. Plus no state inheritance tax if I remember right...

When interest rates were high it was possible to lock in a very good medium term rate (5-10 years). But your money is locked up and early withdrawal has huge penalties. Passive but not liquid. An ETF index fund can be sold like a stock. A blue chip stock of course can be too. Fairly liquid unless you need to skip town overnight.

This is random thoughts off the top of my head...

A lot of idiot rich people pay a wealth manager 1-2% to do ham up the explanation of these simple transactions. These investors are often businessmen who know one field like selling mattresses and are uncomfortable dealing with the broader market. So they go passive to avoid the stress.

That's a passive move, but the huge loss of income isn't worth it. Some people need to have a guy in a suit in an office where they can sit down to make decisions; someone to cry to when the market fluctuates (he'll hold your hand and tell you to stick it out or even invest more!). I guess that's better than not being in the market. Even if some of these guys make their profit off your annual return and not the transactions it's still a racket in my opinion.

So yeah basically blue chips, bc divdend stocks, index funds, CD if you have extra cash and lock in a good interest rate (>5% haven't seen that in how long? I stopped looking), hmm what am I forgetting...

Oh yeah you can buy insurance pretty cheap. There's is all kinds. Shit happens and when it does this will cover your ass.

Some policies like private injury/unemployment insurance may continue to pay out for life. I know healthy young guys who got cheap policies through unions or the like never thinking they'd blow their back out. Then it happens and they're unemployable with chronic pain, but getting a check every month for life that covers their living expenses.

That's a passive investment way too many people overlook because you're essentially betting against yourself. Shit happens. Be ready to collect if bad things happen to your body. Totally passive.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017 06:19 AM by Travel Museums.)
04-05-2017 05:33 AM
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Travel Museums Offline
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Post: #30
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Oh yeah I forgot about annuities. Met Life and others have free calculators. I think $100,000 with an immediate payout would net you $400/month for life.

Lots of people scoff at this because the market does way better. Yeah, but it also does way worse for streaks. Annuities aren't just for dumb old lady widowers.

Again how much is your time worth? How about a worry free lifestyle? If Trump didn't win I was seriously considering putting half my portfolio in an annuities and living a simple life off the monthly payouts.

Totally passive and steady payout for life. Some allow a very favorable lump cash payout to your beneficiary if you die. Again this is a type of passive income insurance not for you but that would take care of your woman or kid (assuming they don't blow it all).

One last thing on passive investment and income. You still need to dollar cost average. You can set up automatic recurring purchases (recommend) to take place daily, weekly, monthly. Just watch the transaction fees!

So understand you are always continually investing, though this should be mostly an automatic deduction from your checking/savings/brokerage accounts into your portfolio. This idea that you would just plunk down hundreds of thousands at once and sail away is bullshit. Even your dividends should be reinvested unless you need the money to live.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017 07:35 AM by Travel Museums.)
04-05-2017 07:29 AM
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NewDayNewFace Offline
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Post: #31
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Great insight Travel,

What apps of your phone do you use to check on your investments and to invest?

What do you think about the vanguard s&p500?

I'm currently interested in investing because I'm currently saving half of my made income every month without even trying. I want to build a nice portfolio. I hate to admit it but the market is doing good now and I think it will take a dip before it goes up again.
04-05-2017 08:48 AM
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Travel Museums Offline
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Post: #32
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Mmm just use your bank/broker app to execute. You're not a day trader or bot worried about milliseconds.

As for news I only listen to an audio digest of the NYT or WSJ that comes with an audible membership. Bloomberg made his billions on financial news so he has a good app but they're all the same really.

You need to recognize fundamental value and postpone your cognitive dissonance. It's not going to be some horse race tip. People dismiss true value bc it's boring stable trends that conflict with what we should be doing to make our national truly great.

What do I think about the s&p? Uh I hate the fact that we're addicted to oil and instead of building a renewable power infrastructure we're fracking our aquifers. And those companies control our politicians, laws, blah blah blah. But I don't have enough clout or money to sit at the big boy table of decision makers nor did I inherit a seat on any boards. So on paper I love that shit and invest in it like a baby sucks tit milk.

There are opportunities to watch out for if you recognize value. Sometimes they're just flukes. Remember when Netflix did that quickster nonsense and their stock temporarily plummeted even though they were essentially right that the future was streaming their own content? It was so fucking obvious. Buy and hold for a quadruple profit.

Apple or any blue chip circa 2009. Same deal. That's why I like having a lot of cash sitting around. People cry about losing 3% a year to inflation then miss opportunities to make 400% profit in a few years.

I'm not starting off with bucket loads of cash. I will never get invited to any galas fundraisers. But I get to travel and do 98% of the stuff those guys do anyway. And I don't need to work ever again either. Not many people on earth ever get to retire, let alone do it young. I'm fortunate, but I also love a pretty frugal lifestyle. Besides one or two perks I think most working class people probably wouldn't trade places bc the trade offs I've been willing to make are physically an emotionally uncomfortable.

Passive income is just a piece of the puzzle. Another huge piece (I'm my opinion) is not actively flushing money down the toilet on shot you don't need or could get for free or pennies on the dollar. You'd be amazed at how little money you need to live if you give up expensive hobbies and follow the weather.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017 10:26 AM by Travel Museums.)
04-05-2017 09:44 AM
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Post: #33
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Blue chip stocks are basically the S&P500. The top 500 companies. Apples stock is at a all time high. I don't think I want to do any investing in that as of now. When it trends down a little bit then that will be the best time to get in as it'll bounce back.
04-05-2017 10:28 AM
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Travel Museums Offline
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Post: #34
RE: True Passive Income Investments
DOLLAR COST AVERAGE
(Face palms self)

You just... You just don't get it do you, Scott? (Dr. Evil).

Seriously. Did you not read my posts? You start investing right the fuck now. $10 every week. Or whatever. Stop worrying about the share price fluctuations. You only worry about that when there are wild swings based on some grave news like the company faked their accounting reports or their product gives everyone cancer. Then you short that dog and lick ur wounds.

But guess what? If you invest in an actual blue chip or better yet an etf THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Because they have fundamental value. That's why they are blue chips. That's why you buy I little taste every week and keep coming back for more. You don't care about the share price (if it's actually a problem it will be front page news). You're buying inherent value and/or decent dividends.

You set it to autopilot. Once you're comfortable making trades you put all sorts of stops on the trades. Sell/buy if it falls above/below $10, etc. It's an emergency break on an elevator really.

The real problem most guys I know have:
They failed to capitalize on the Great Recession bounceback. And now it's too late. Things are better and they have the money and confidence. But the markets bullish. Sorry you missed out.

You're not getting on the rollercoaster while it goes uphill. That only sucks short term. So long as you're not investing $1million tomorrow and the economy tanks next week it's all a drop in the bucket. You're going to space out your $200k investment over 10 years.

This may not sound passive but it actually is.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017 11:09 AM by Travel Museums.)
04-05-2017 10:49 AM
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churros Offline
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Post: #35
RE: True Passive Income Investments
(04-05-2017 05:33 AM)Travel Museums Wrote:  Your tax dollars are paying for the US industrial complex to chug along shrugging off schmuck dictators and derailing outside foreign trade treaties that try to circumvent our interests. So invest in the USA.

This is some great info, but jesus, the cynicism is breathtaking.
04-05-2017 11:01 AM
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Post: #36
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Being cynical and satirical for emphasis but this is the way the world works. Big US companies have it on lock. Our war machine keeps everyone in line and sucking our tit.

The only threat is minor but horrific interruptions from terrorists and the occasional rogue state. Look how hard we push back when those fuckers try to change the dynamic.

There are terrific investments outside the USA. Higher returns for sure. But I do not gamble with my money on things/places I don't fully understand. Or it's about having confidence in the state protecting my interests.

Say you invest in S&P500 company equivalents, spinoffs, etc in Brazil. Huge market for growth. But massive infrastructure and corruption issues. Maybe the government or currency dissolves. Maybe some schmuck general tries to take over and run shit. Maybe they nationalize key industries and default on debt. Not worth the headache when the USA is so stable long term.

I'm not trying to become mega rich. I'm trying to have a free time and location free lifestyle that nets me $2000-3000 to live while preserving as much capital as possible.

It's more like $1200-2000 right now. I fucked up in the dot com and lost a third. I saw the Great Recession and cashed out but was way too cautious getting back in.

Even in the USA we have massive corruption, fraud, failure to protect working class interests and regulating/punishing big business cheats stealing wealth.

But somehow the economy always bounces back in 5-10 years and grows and grows. It's not Harry Potter waving his magic wand. It's not the invisible hand bullshit. It's our military industrial complex putting our interests above everyone else in the world.

Why do you think so many people envy, hate, want to live here? Why do you think they attacked the World Trade Center and Pentagon. Symbolic sure. The nexus of our trade and the bulldog that protects it. It didn't work. We kept on rolling right along. The housing crisis had more of an effect.

The only place where two grand isn't baller is the USA and some other big Western countries regions. Maybe some other world cities but there's ways around that like living with a woman. You take advantage of your wonderful US Passport privileges to roam around and always favorable dollar exchange rate. You even get a nice bump in sexual market value in half the inhabitable continents.

These are all wonderful advantages given to you by crazy things we did like outspending the USSR and our top notch entertainment/product industries mindfucking the world's idea of beauty. You can shout it down with a megaphone. Or you can passively take advantage.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017 09:20 PM by Travel Museums.)
04-05-2017 09:03 PM
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Post: #37
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Fair analysis.

(04-05-2017 05:33 AM)Travel Museums Wrote:  Fucking love Schwab. They just lowered their trades to $6. Make a call and get the right person they'll even give you a code to let you trade vanguard etfs at that price (not really worth it for more than a 1-2 funds that vanguard has an edge with; which is why Schwab will allow this in order to keep you on their ship).

Would you mind breaking down the mechanics of this for a newb? I have a Schwab account, and know of vanguard. Are you saying you can invest in vanguard through the schwab account?
04-05-2017 09:38 PM
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Post: #38
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Yes you can buy vanguard, fidelity, etc ETFs because they trade like a stock. The advantage of sticking with Schwabs 200 commission free etfs is no transaction fee even if you sell early. But a few vanguard ETFs have slightly lower management costs so holding them over the long term will give you a slightly higher return, but it's marginal.

Sometimes with new accounts you get free trades for 6 months. I think the etrade/scottrade types have ongoi offers like that. The idea is to get you addicted to lots of trades. But they have penalties.

They are all making money charging a small fee on your transaction. That's a downside of dollar cost averaging but it can be negated by staying in house or getting codes.

I don't like recommending specific investments besides examples like Apple (biggest company in the world). It really depends on your specific personal finances and situation which you should never disclose on the internets.

Call Schwab and talk to a broker. They're not 24 hour access like the bank side. And they put you on hold and never call back or follow up like they promise to.

But you can get a hold of them easily enough and find out all this stuff in a hour of conversation. You can also find your nearest branch and make an appointment.

If you're not ready to invest that's ok. Pick 5 etfs and track them with a fake investment and see how'd you'd do. I did this in 7th grade with a random assignment of stocks from my teacher and realized i should have put my money in better performing stocks. Duh.

Then I learned about index funds having the benefit of mutual funds without the loads and outperforming money managers from a PBS special. The rest I picked up the same way.

Fool around with Schwabs resources. Besides a local credit union account and (military bank account if applicable) they've got you covered for everything. They are the only bank I found that doesn't charge an international exchange rate AND refunds all your ATM fees. If you travel like me that's maybe 5% or more cash back. Some banks will not charge ATM fees. Some will charge 1-3% intl transaction fee. Some will hide that fee in a shitty exchange rate. You chose the best bank to familiarize yourself with. Plus whenever I call them from abroad I get an American on the phone. "Hi I'm Josh in Colorado"... sometimes they even remember who I am because they helped me last time. Fucking amazing service.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017 10:30 PM by Travel Museums.)
04-05-2017 10:22 PM
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Post: #39
RE: True Passive Income Investments
I once called Schwab on the brokerage side but with very little knowledge of index funds. I've learned more in your posts for sure - thanks for dropping gems here. What is the initial investment like? $25,000 and you're rolling in the green?

(04-05-2017 10:22 PM)Travel Museums Wrote:  Yes you can buy vanguard, fidelity, etc ETFs because they trade like a stock. The advantage of sticking with Schwabs 200 commission free etfs is no transaction fee even if you sell early. But a few vanguard ETFs have slightly lower management costs so holding them over the long term will give you a slightly higher return, but it's marginal.

Sometimes with new accounts you get free trades for 6 months. I think the etrade/scottrade types have ongoi offers like that. The idea is to get you addicted to lots of trades. But they have penalties.

They are all making money charging a small fee on your transaction. That's a downside of dollar cost averaging but it can be negated by staying in house or getting codes.

I don't like recommending specific investments besides examples like Apple (biggest company in the world). It really depends on your specific personal finances and situation which you should never disclose on the internets.

Call Schwab and talk to a broker. They're not 24 hour access like the bank side. And they put you on hold and never call back or follow up like they promise to.

But you can get a hold of them easily enough and find out all this stuff in a hour of conversation. You can also find your nearest branch and make an appointment.

If you're not ready to invest that's ok. Pick 5 etfs and track them with a fake investment and see how'd you'd do. I did this in 7th grade with a random assignment of stocks from my teacher and realized i should have put my money in better performing stocks. Duh.

Then I learned about index funds having the benefit of mutual funds without the loads and outperforming money managers from a PBS special. The rest I picked up the same way.

Fool around with Schwabs resources. Besides a local credit union account and (military bank account if applicable) they've got you covered for everything. They are the only bank I found that doesn't charge an international exchange rate AND refunds all your ATM fees. If you travel like me that's maybe 5% or more cash back. Some banks will not charge ATM fees. Some will charge 1-3% intl transaction fee. Some will hide that fee in a shitty exchange rate. You chose the best bank to familiarize yourself with. Plus whenever I call them from abroad I get an American on the phone. "Hi I'm Josh in Colorado"... sometimes they even remember who I am because they helped me last time. Fucking amazing service.
04-06-2017 12:36 AM
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Post: #40
RE: True Passive Income Investments
I would bet that the price of oil doesn't go much lower than it is now. It will only go up from here. How high it goes up in the next year or two is the main mystery, but bodes well for oil stocks to rebound.
04-06-2017 06:57 AM
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Post: #41
RE: True Passive Income Investments
There's an app called Robinhood that allows free trades. Anyone have experience with this?
04-06-2017 09:08 AM
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Post: #42
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Robinhood user here. It works great for me, however you cannot use it for day trading.

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04-06-2017 10:25 AM
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Post: #43
RE: True Passive Income Investments
If you want to trade on a regular basis, there's not much better than Interactive Brokers for the data, capabilities, and low fees. Let's not confuse trading with investing however. Trading is essentially gambling with risk management and appropriate sizing. I would say dividend stocks and REITs are going to be one of the best bets for passivity. Like I previously stated though, don't buy on the anticipation of appreciation, buy simply for cashflow. As to the comment about oil not going down lower from here, I'm highly skeptical. The Mexican Government does an annual hedge, and their put options are significantly below market still. They have a record of making billions of dollars a year in that hedge. They probably know more than you or I do about the market. I trade oil futures intraday, I'd be shitting my pants holding a position for the longer term.

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04-06-2017 11:39 AM
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Post: #44
RE: True Passive Income Investments
WSP did a good blog post on the topic too.

http://wallstreetplayboys.com/the-best-f...ve-income/
04-07-2017 09:29 AM
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Post: #45
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Why not just build a portfolio of broad marked ETFS? an agressive one should net you ~7-9% y/y over the long term
04-07-2017 07:18 PM
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Travel Museums Offline
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Post: #46
RE: True Passive Income Investments
That's exactly what I advise doing. Add some blue chip dividend stocks if you want.
04-08-2017 12:15 AM
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Post: #47
RE: True Passive Income Investments
Cryptocurrency mining. Easy fucking $$$.

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04-08-2017 12:32 PM
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Post: #48
RE: True Passive Income Investments
If you are in Canada you can throw a bunch of dividend paying stocks/ETFs/REITs into a TFSA and get all the dividend buxs tax free.

Also if you use Questrade, ETF trading is free and there are zero fees if you have $5000 in your account.
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2017 05:50 AM by KirklandLaundryDetergent.)
04-09-2017 05:46 AM
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Post: #49
RE: True Passive Income Investments
(04-08-2017 12:32 PM)SunW Wrote:  Cryptocurrency mining. Easy fucking $$$.

Wb2

Is that still profitable these days?
04-09-2017 06:35 AM
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Easy_C Offline
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Post: #50
RE: True Passive Income Investments
(04-05-2017 10:28 AM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Blue chip stocks are basically the S&P500. The top 500 companies. Apples stock is at a all time high. I don't think I want to do any investing in that as of now. When it trends down a little bit then that will be the best time to get in as it'll bounce back.

Armstrong is saying wait until after May to invest in indexes.
04-09-2017 03:01 PM
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