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Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-15-2016 01:33 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  Misrepresenting key events and joining up with people obviously trying to legally and publicly tar and feather someone is a low integrity type display.

There's no reason for anyone to defend Sommers this wasn't a slight slip up.

I have really liked a lot of her videos over the years, so it is kind of hard to have to admit it, but you are right.

She seemed so cool though, and turned out to be #BasicMom not #BasedMom.

Just give me a moment to get used to it though.

Also hate to admit it, but Paul Elam at A Voice For Men called her out back in February, referring to her as "The Fatuous Feminist."

http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-...f-sommers/

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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04-15-2016 04:16 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-15-2016 04:16 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(04-15-2016 01:33 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  Misrepresenting key events and joining up with people obviously trying to legally and publicly tar and feather someone is a low integrity type display.

There's no reason for anyone to defend Sommers this wasn't a slight slip up.

I have really liked a lot of her videos over the years, so it is kind of hard to have to admit it, but you are right.

She seemed so cool though, and turned out to be #BasicMom not #BasedMom.

Just give me a moment to get used to it though.

Also hate to admit it, but Paul Elam at A Voice For Men called her out back in February, referring to her as "The Fatuous Feminist."

http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-...f-sommers/

She "Jumped the Shark," in other words.

We're used to this type of thinking when it comes to television shows and musical acts. It's easy to point to which season your favorite program started to go downhill or when this or that musician stopped being great.

But it's time we started applying this to writers -- especially writers who are public figures. After some time, some of them cease to connect. They need to be called on this.

Just as it sucks to buy the latest CD by your old favorite artist only to realize he or she no longer has "it" anymore, so it is when you find a formerly first-rate writer has lost the plot. That's life.

I still stand firm on my GILF comment, though. If most American women aged like her, life would be a lot happier for aging men.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2016 11:17 PM by Days of Broken Arrows.)
04-15-2016 11:15 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-15-2016 11:15 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  Just as it sucks to buy the latest CD by your old favorite artist only to realize he or she no longer has "it" anymore, so it is when you find a formerly first-rate writer has lost the plot. That's life.

I'll call it now: Milo jumped the shark once he lost his verification tick on Twitter. He seemed to noticeably-dial down the deliberate provocation and attack journalism thereafter. Now he's focused on a cult of celebrity.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2016 12:55 AM by AnonymousBosch.)
04-16-2016 12:54 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-13-2016 07:51 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  You will never agree with anyone 100 percent of the time. Christina is still ok in my book. I agree with Roosh most of the time, I am sure he would not like my stance on Affirmative Action, that doesn't mean I will not deal with him anymore, that just means we disagree on Affirmative Action.Roosh is ok in my book.

See my point?

Spot on.

This part of the internet needs to stop running it's public relations like an inquisition.

Just because an individual takes an unfavourable view regarding one isolated incident, doesn't make them a heretic and require them to be thrown to the wolves, never to be spoken of or listened to again.

A change of attitude is advised: We disagreed on this one, but I'll see you on the battle field when we go toe to toe against the system in the next fight, side by side.

A wide group of people with many different views need to come together to orchestrate change, they wont agree on everything, but they will have the same aim at heart.
Christina, through her body of work, has demonstrated this and has scored more points against the system in the name of men that many men on this forum ever will, but they'll get on here and post large about shutting her down.

You can't build a movement if you excommunicate everyone that puts a foot off "your" line. There is another ideology trying to run things that way, it's called feminism.

"Pain is certain, suffering is optional" - Buddah
04-16-2016 01:35 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 01:35 AM)Thoroughbred Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 07:51 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  You will never agree with anyone 100 percent of the time. Christina is still ok in my book. I agree with Roosh most of the time, I am sure he would not like my stance on Affirmative Action, that doesn't mean I will not deal with him anymore, that just means we disagree on Affirmative Action.Roosh is ok in my book.

See my point?

Spot on.

This part of the internet needs to stop running it's public relations like an inquisition.

Just because an individual takes an unfavourable view regarding one isolated incident, doesn't make them a heretic and require them to be thrown to the wolves, never to be spoken of or listened to again.

A change of attitude is advised: We disagreed on this one, but I'll see you on the battle field when we go toe to toe against the system in the next fight, side by side.

A wide group of people with many different views need to come together to orchestrate change, they wont agree on everything, but they will have the same aim at heart.
Christina, through her body of work, has demonstrated this and has scored more points against the system in the name of men that many men on this forum ever will, but they'll get on here and post large about shutting her down.

You can't build a movement if you excommunicate everyone that puts a foot off "your" line. There is another ideology trying to run things that way, it's called feminism.

Bad things about her:
She's a feminist/believes in gender "equality"
She supports gay marriage for nonlibertarian(read: degenerate) reasons
She supports migrant crisis faggotry and the rapefugees
She's a Trump hater, either believes it or is paid to(it doesn't seem like the latter is that good a reason- I believe MikeCF retweeted someone who was hired by AEI and he could still say pro Trump things)
She's so blind by the Trump hate that she believes ridiculous things about assault/battery....

Good thing about her:
There's a group of "really bad people" like SJWs and radical feminists and she thinks they are too extreme and she's like that but "not that bad".

Whatever.
04-16-2016 02:01 AM
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Post: #31
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
Now that the Michelle Fields hoax has been thoroughly dismantled, will she apologize and retract her stupid letter?

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04-16-2016 03:50 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump



God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
04-16-2016 04:40 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 03:50 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Now that the Michelle Fields hoax has been thoroughly dismantled, will she apologize and retract her stupid letter?

If nothing else, it was a rather odd instance to make a big fuss over.
Mountain out of a mole-hill aside; at least wait until the matter was resolved before exposing your true self.

Just more evidence to always take a chicks statements with a grain of salt.
Even one who seemingly 'got it'.
04-16-2016 06:37 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 01:35 AM)Thoroughbred Wrote:  Just because an individual takes an unfavourable view regarding one isolated incident, doesn't make them a heretic and require them to be thrown to the wolves, never to be spoken of or listened to again.

A change of attitude is advised: We disagreed on this one, but I'll see you on the battle field when we go toe to toe against the system in the next fight, side by side.

This isn't a mere difference of opinion.

This woman is calling for the head of a guy who, as far as the current evidence shows, is innocent of the accusations.

This isn't a difference of opinion, it's a clear case of dishonesty, lack of integrity and vindictiveness.

There's no problem with disagreeing, there's no problem being anti-trump. But trying to ruin the life of someone on an obvious bullshit allegation because you don't like his boss has crossed the line. Someone who is prepared to do that can not be trusted. Christina has revealed herself to be an enemy to truth and fairness.

I don't believe we should excommunicate people who have different opinions. I believe we should recognize enemies as enemies. Just because they gave you a big wooden horse doesn't mean they're on your side.
04-16-2016 08:37 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
Women that use the heavy hand of the state to put an innocent man in a cage deserve whatever is coming to them.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
04-16-2016 09:50 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 08:37 AM)FireStarter Wrote:  trying to ruin the life of someone on an obvious bullshit allegation because you don't like his boss has crossed the line. Someone who is prepared to do that can not be trusted. Christina has revealed herself to be an enemy to truth and fairness.

There's even footage from multiple angles.

There is absolutely nothing there that could be considered 'battery', or even 'disrespectful' in the context of security staff protecting a presidental candidate.

I understand Millennials attempting to reshape reality via emotion every time they get a case of the 'Literallys', but Sommers is old enough to know better.

I've seen babies and toddlers be rougher with their mothers. Maybe if these women had focused on families rather than careers they'd be stronger and more emotionally-resilient.
04-16-2016 04:28 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 02:01 AM)Centurion Wrote:  
(04-16-2016 01:35 AM)Thoroughbred Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 07:51 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  You will never agree with anyone 100 percent of the time. Christina is still ok in my book. I agree with Roosh most of the time, I am sure he would not like my stance on Affirmative Action, that doesn't mean I will not deal with him anymore, that just means we disagree on Affirmative Action.Roosh is ok in my book.

See my point?

Spot on.

This part of the internet needs to stop running it's public relations like an inquisition.

Just because an individual takes an unfavourable view regarding one isolated incident, doesn't make them a heretic and require them to be thrown to the wolves, never to be spoken of or listened to again.

A change of attitude is advised: We disagreed on this one, but I'll see you on the battle field when we go toe to toe against the system in the next fight, side by side.

A wide group of people with many different views need to come together to orchestrate change, they wont agree on everything, but they will have the same aim at heart.
Christina, through her body of work, has demonstrated this and has scored more points against the system in the name of men that many men on this forum ever will, but they'll get on here and post large about shutting her down.

You can't build a movement if you excommunicate everyone that puts a foot off "your" line. There is another ideology trying to run things that way, it's called feminism.

Bad things about her:
She's a feminist/believes in gender "equality"
She supports gay marriage for nonlibertarian(read: degenerate) reasons
She supports migrant crisis faggotry and the rapefugees
She's a Trump hater, either believes it or is paid to(it doesn't seem like the latter is that good a reason- I believe MikeCF retweeted someone who was hired by AEI and he could still say pro Trump things)
She's so blind by the Trump hate that she believes ridiculous things about assault/battery....

Good thing about her:
There's a group of "really bad people" like SJWs and radical feminists and she thinks they are too extreme and she's like that but "not that bad".

Whatever.

Cool mate. Take your criteria and chop and shave everyone away who doesn't agree with you 100% of the time. You'll be left with you and your mates around a table.

But hey, you can always come to an internet forum and post.

"Pain is certain, suffering is optional" - Buddah
04-16-2016 09:58 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 08:37 AM)FireStarter Wrote:  
(04-16-2016 01:35 AM)Thoroughbred Wrote:  Just because an individual takes an unfavourable view regarding one isolated incident, doesn't make them a heretic and require them to be thrown to the wolves, never to be spoken of or listened to again.

A change of attitude is advised: We disagreed on this one, but I'll see you on the battle field when we go toe to toe against the system in the next fight, side by side.

This isn't a mere difference of opinion.

This woman is calling for the head of a guy who, as far as the current evidence shows, is innocent of the accusations.

This isn't a difference of opinion, it's a clear case of dishonesty, lack of integrity and vindictiveness.

There's no problem with disagreeing, there's no problem being anti-trump. But trying to ruin the life of someone on an obvious bullshit allegation because you don't like his boss has crossed the line. Someone who is prepared to do that can not be trusted. Christina has revealed herself to be an enemy to truth and fairness.

I don't believe we should excommunicate people who have different opinions. I believe we should recognize enemies as enemies. Just because they gave you a big wooden horse doesn't mean they're on your side.

Michelle Fields is an attention whore who has attempted to use the state to shut an innocent family man down for political purposes and to boost her own profile.

Hoff-Sommers will never recover form supporting Fields, and I'm not expecting anyone round here to go into bat for her.

If you have taken that from my posts, that's not my angle.

(04-16-2016 08:37 AM)FireStarter Wrote:  I believe we should recognize enemies as enemies. Just because they gave you a big wooden horse doesn't mean they're on your side.

Things round here get reduced to "sides" too often. We get lost in the trees while the forest carries on just as it ever did, while things go nowhere.

See beyond Sommers and what she did. You don't have her in your inner circle, but you use the work she has generated to advance the aims where it is advantageous too.

Too much "you have slighted me, so off to the dungeon with you" shit going on round here. Who are you all looking for, Jesus?

"Pain is certain, suffering is optional" - Buddah
04-16-2016 10:10 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
The biggest example of all this is Paul Elam. So much potential, so much work poured into a body of research, building a framework, collating information and statistics.

But no one pays any of it any mind.

Why?

Cause he's an angry old cunt who sits in his corner of the internet hating everyone.

He has temporary alliances, but they dissolve as soon as someone steps off being 100% in line with him.

It just so turns out that there is a name for the group of people who aren't 100% in line with Paul Elam 100% of the time: Everyone else.

So that's where he stays. No pull, no change. And AVFM will go down when he does.

"Pain is certain, suffering is optional" - Buddah
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2016 10:34 PM by Thoroughbred.)
04-16-2016 10:25 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 10:10 PM)Thoroughbred Wrote:  Things round here get reduced to "sides" too often. We get lost in the trees while the forest carries on just as it ever did, while things go nowhere.

See beyond Sommers and what she did. You don't have her in your inner circle, but you use the work she has generated to advance the aims where it is advantageous too.

Too much "you have slighted me, so off to the dungeon with you" shit going on round here. Who are you all looking for, Jesus?

What exactly did she do to help neomasculine/redpill views that wasn't marginal or hold views that weren't "obvious" to normal people?
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2016 11:38 PM by Centurion.)
04-16-2016 11:38 PM
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Post: #41
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
There is a big difference between a disagreement that should be tolerated and outright malice. This isn't Christina Hoff Summers being misinformed and saying "I think the Trump campaign should watch how it treats reporters", it's her being a malicious schemer saying "This man has to go to jail, and until he does my entire organization will not be satisfied."

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04-17-2016 02:25 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
Honestly, Thoroughbred, I don't know what your deal is. Seems like you have a crush on her or something. I get where you're coming from, we shouldn't be ideological purists that cut ties with everyone who doesn't agree 100%. I agree. But as members before me have tried to explain to you, this isn't about ideology but facts. We don't complain about her not liking Trump, we complain about her maliciously utilizing an obvious non-issue to ruin a man's career and to push her own political agenda. She uses lies and deception to win, not reason, arguments and logic - which in combination with her last name made me look her up and surprise, surprise - she's on the list: http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_feminists.
She is obviously vicious and people don't just turn a blind eye to that - regardless of ideology. It's not about opinion, it's about honesty vs. deception. I cannot describe how much I despise this kind of behavior and I will never forgive a potential ally for this. Fuck her.
04-17-2016 04:10 AM
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Post: #43
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 03:50 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Now that the Michelle Fields hoax has been thoroughly dismantled, will she apologize and retract her stupid letter?

Come on HCE! You should know better. Now that she has been exposed as a complete fraud, she will do what women always do.

Demand an apology from the person she falsely accused!

[Image: 48691966.cached.jpg]

Quote:After being called “delusional,” a serial liar, and a potential assassin by the Donald Trump campaign, Michelle Fields has told The Daily Beast all she still wants from campaign manager Corey Lewandowski is an apology.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...o-her.html

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
04-17-2016 01:29 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-16-2016 10:10 PM)Thoroughbred Wrote:  Too much "you have slighted me, so off to the dungeon with you" shit going on round here. Who are you all looking for, Jesus?

Chill.

Sommers is siding with someone breaking the ninth commandment in as traditionalist an interpretation as possible, which, naturally, erodes my trust in her.

She can begin to regain my trust through a public act of penitence. A simple "I was misinformed and misled. I'm deeply-sorry for any harm my words caused Corey Lewandowski, and, especially, for misinforming my readers."

You have to understand just how valuable and precious Objective Truth is to the average person, particularly as the Marxists take greater and greater control of society. False narratives are the tool of the enemy, and I won't be shamed for expecting better from my supposed allies. Gamergate seems somewhat naive this way - I noticed yesterday KotakuInAction is now siding with the Social Autopsy creator as 'not being that bad' simply because she's fighting with Zoe Quinn and Randi Harper. They're currently-debating whether this misinformed, toxic, dangerous woman is an ally or not. No, she is that bad.

I've mentioned in other threads I've noticed average people seem to be losing their patience with False Narratives and have predicted some kind of shift is coming. I just read this article this morning, which suggests some damning statistics about Public Media Trust, though I would have preferred greater context:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/35c595900...news-media

We're also seeing the shakeups and layoffs in the clickbait model of journalism. If Sommers wants to remain relevant, she needs to be truthful.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2016 06:52 PM by AnonymousBosch.)
04-17-2016 06:24 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(04-17-2016 06:24 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  
(04-16-2016 10:10 PM)Thoroughbred Wrote:  Too much "you have slighted me, so off to the dungeon with you" shit going on round here. Who are you all looking for, Jesus?

She can begin to regain my trust through a public act of penitence. A simple "I was misinformed and misled. I'm deeply-sorry for any harm my words caused Corey Lewandowski, and, especially, for misinforming my readers."

Yeah, that's not gonna happen.

I see what you are saying, but this relates back to my original point. A requirement that Christina repent is a function of having an ally that never steps off your line. I don't expect that much from Christina, and your perspective, while to me, is clearly the superior and the most reasonable, rational and objective, it is beyond her emotionally clouded capabilities, and is too much to ask of her.

So let her have her inferior way, on this issue. I know, and you know, it doesn't stack up in the grand scheme of things and ultimately she would work as a double agent. But in other areas she has a valuable contribution on causes that align with ones that we are sympathetic too. That can be quietly approved off, and I think can co exist with a condemnation of her stance regarding fields.

It's a very slippery slope when trying to create ideological alliances with people who never colour outside the lines established by a very narrow, while superior, set of ideas, as are found around here when the popular climate is so far the other way. It's too much to ask of people, intellectually, socially and emotionally.

"Pain is certain, suffering is optional" - Buddah
05-01-2016 07:26 AM
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Post: #46
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
Just to bring together these two threads, Christina Hoff Sommers is the speaker who "triggered" the unbalanced female student known as TrigglyPuff, who we did an entire thread about this past week.

Sommers was part of a college panel discussion and something she said caused this student to start screaming "F*CK YOU!!" and "Take your hate speech off this campus!!!" (Keep in mind that Sommers is a 65-year-old woman.)

Why am I bringing this up? What's the connection between Michelle Fields and TrigglyPuff?

Because in both cases they were Millennial women who created complete hysteria and insanity over...nothing. And in both cases, their hysteria was so over-the-top that it went viral on the Internet.

You wonder if Sommers will realize this, now that she's become the target of the hysteria herself. Her ideas were considered intellectual in 2001, but now they're "HATE SPEECH!! OMG!!!" Just as Corey's simple wrist-grab is now "ASSAULT!!! OMG!!!"

Hopefully Sommers will notice this. There is a lesson here. It's fine if you want to justify a hysteria. Just don't be surprised when the very hysteria you've stoked comes 'round to bite you in the ass.

Like when someone screams "F*CK YOU!!!!" over and over again to a 65-year-old woman in a public space.
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2016 08:17 AM by Days of Broken Arrows.)
05-01-2016 08:16 AM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
I am closer in age to Sommers than I am to Fields, and as annoyed as I get with Millenials, I am much more disgusted with people of my generation who buy in to the Oppression Olympics. You had fucking forty or fifty years of your life to learn how to act right, and now, just because the kids are doing it, you have to do it too!

At least younger SJW maniacs have the excuse of being born into this world. What is your excuse Granny?

Honestly.

Comb your hair.

Tuck in your shirt.

Comport yourself!

You act like you don't know anything.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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(This post was last modified: 05-01-2016 01:07 PM by debeguiled.)
05-01-2016 01:00 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(05-01-2016 08:16 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  Hopefully Sommers will notice this. There is a lesson here. It's fine if you want to justify a hysteria. Just don't be surprised when the very hysteria you've stoked comes 'round to bite you in the ass.

SHE WON'T!

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
05-01-2016 01:11 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
Anyone who even partially sided with Sommers or the women who signed that letter need to realize this:

Lewandowski had only been charged at the time. The court had yet to render its dismissal of the case, never mind the guilty verdict they expected but didn't get.

But these so-called "conservative" women couldn't even be bothered to wait for the court. They wanted him fired, then and there, based on a mere accusation.

And then they wonder why other women want men fired or expelled from school based on mere rape accusations.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2016 01:53 AM by 262.)
05-02-2016 01:52 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Christina Sommers sides with feminists on Michelle Fields hoax against Trump
(05-02-2016 01:52 AM)262 Wrote:  Anyone who even partially sided with Sommers or the women who signed that letter need to realize this:

Lewandowski had only been charged at the time. The court had yet to render its dismissal of the case, never mind the guilty verdict they expected but didn't get.

But these so-called "conservative" women couldn't even be bothered to wait for the court. They wanted him fired, then and there, based on a mere accusation.

And then they wonder why other women want men fired or expelled from school based on mere rape accusations.

This is the crux of the issue for me. Trying to subvert the justice system and deliver consequences to the accused before evidence has even been gathered.

This 'offensive' tribalism is very different from the 'defensive' tribalism of believing the accused. This is because you aren't pushing for consequences before the justice system has made a decision.

I don't know why Sommers chose to back Team Women here as she's avoided this kind of blatant tribal affiliation in the past. Regardless, her credibility has taken a huge blow and she's now not to be trusted.
05-02-2016 03:57 AM
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