Post: #1

This is simply incredible to me, to disparage the legacy of Harry Truman making a tough call for the greater good. I guess we shouldn't even be surprised by Obama's ridiculous anti-patriotic rhetoric anymore but this is inexcusable.

Breitbart Article:

"Congress Must Censure President Obama Over Hiroshima Speech":

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...ure-obama/

Quote:President Barack Obama told the world on Friday in Hiroshima that the American decision to drop nuclear bombs on Japan in 1945 arose from humanity’s worst instincts, including “nationalist fervor or religious zeal.”

The war that ended in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, he said, “grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints.”

The speech — delivered on the eve of Memorial Day weekend — was billed by the White House as anything but an apology, but Obama’s words betrayed his true sentiments.

Obama, a native of Honolulu who grew up near Pearl Harbor, said nothing about the fact that Japan started the war; nothing about the fact that the Japanese were responsible for the slaughter of millions of civilians throughout Asia and the Pacific; nothing about the fact that the Japanese refused to surrender after hundreds of thousands had already been killed in conventional bombing.

Obama implied that Americans had not yet considered the human cost of the atomic bomb: we had to “force ourselves to imagine the moment the bomb fell” and “force ourselves to feel the dread of children confused by what they see,” he said.

He described the moral dilemmas of nuclear warfare as if no president, and no American, had considered them before. But he left out the moral case for ending the war, and the hundreds of thousands of deaths avoided because of Hiroshima.

The contrast to President Harry S. Truman could not have been clearer.

Reflecting on the decision to bomb Japan years later, Truman declared: “That bomb caused the Japanese to surrender, and it stopped the war. I don’t care what the crybabies say now, because they didn’t have to make the decision.”

As he has done before, Obama cast a moral equivalence between different civilizations, implying that Americans were just as bad as the Imperial Japanese, or anyone else.

But he went further, casting doubt on the American effort in World War II itself: “Nations arise telling a story that binds people together in sacrifice and cooperation, allowing for remarkable feats. But those same stories have so often been used to oppress and dehumanize those who are different.”

There is really only one response to Obama’s gesture, and it goes beyond media disputation and moral condemnation.

It must be made clear that at Hiroshima, Obama represented no one but himself — not the Greatest Generation who fought the war, and not the generations of Americans who have grown up enjoying the freedom that victory over Japan secured.

The U.S. Congress declared war on Japan the day after Pearl Harbor. Millions of Americans fought to save the country, and civilization. Hundreds of thousands died, often in brutal hand-to-hand combat against a fanatically determined Japanese enemy.

It is the inescapable duty of the Congress of the United States today to censure President Barack Obama for casting doubt on the sacrifices and motivations of the Americans who fought the Second World War — on the eve of Memorial Day, no less.

Joel B. Pollak is Senior Editor-at-Large at Breitbart News. His new e-book, Leadership Secrets of the Kings and Prophets: What the Bible’s Struggles Teach Us About Today, is on sale through Amazon Kindle Direct. Follow him on Twitter at @joelpollak.

Post: #2

That article doesn't exactly take the speech as it was told.

From the transcripts - http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/...html?_r=0:

"On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal." - That is a factual statement.

"The world war that reached its brutal end in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations. Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art. Their thinkers had advanced ideas of justice and harmony and truth. And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints." - Japan was looking to conquer. Again, this statement isn't wrong.

There are plenty of things to criticize Obama for. Honestly, this speech was fairly on-point and hardly an apology. Were the atomic bombs horrible? Absolutely. Were they the best options? Yes. If anything, this speech was, in the simplest of ways, an attempt to prevent the world from reaching the same point where that decision must be made again.

Post: #3

Obama's foreign policy is apologizing to everybody and taking it up the ass from all the countries that the US dominated politically and with the use of arms.

Post: #4

I hope there's are some skeletons of Obama that Trump can dig up when he's president to get him locked away for good.

Nothing will put a smile on my face more.

Post: #5

I'm no Obama apologist but I thought the speech was spot on, recognizing that Hiroshima represented the culmination of humanity's capacity for evil amid massive technological progress.

The fact that we have the technology to eliminate humanity isn't something we should treat lightly.

Post: #6

It was an empty speech for people who believe in magic unicorns. You can't unring the the bell. What did the people who invented the first nuke say? "If I hadn't created it, someone else would have."

If you have a knife, at a minimum I want two knives (and I'd prefer two guns as well.) If you have two guns, I want a few tanks and some artillery. No matter what you have, I want to have more so I can maintain an advantage over you, and we can fight our battles on MY terms.

He said we're not genetically bound to repeat our mistakes. This is true. But we are programmed to want to protect ourselves and our interests through whatever means are necessary.

Post: #7

The Anglo Establishment (The Council for Foreign Relations and the Royal Institute for International Affairs) and its Soviet allies hanged men at Nuremberg for less than what it did to German and Japanese civilians.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Post: #8

(05-28-2016 05:21 AM)Arado Wrote:  I'm no Obama apologist but I thought the speech was spot on, recognizing that Hiroshima represented the culmination of humanity's capacity for evil amid massive technological progress.

The fact that we have the technology to eliminate humanity isn't something we should treat lightly.

You need to check the definition of "evil". Japan's Unit 731 was evil.

Truman's decision to end the war as swiftly as possible was not. Or would you prefer a history involving invasion of the Japanese mainland? That would have been far worse for both sides.

Post: #9

(05-28-2016 06:23 AM)N°6 Wrote:  The Anglo Establishment (The Council for Foreign Relations and the Royal Institute for International Affairs) and its Soviet allies hanged men at Nuremberg for less than what it did to German and Japanese civilians.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Those hung at Nuremberg were war criminals and genocidal maniacs.

American and British forces bombed German cities to demoralize the German population after a horrific missile campaign against the British homeland. Japanese targets were bombed only to help reduce casualty counts of an American invasion fleet.

The Nazis were a murderous regime. I am content and happy that we kicked the shit out of those bastards and destroyed their country. Nazi apologists are pathetic losers.

Post: #10

(05-28-2016 06:37 AM)MidJack Wrote:  You need to check the definition of "evil". Japan's Unit 731 was evil.

Truman's decision to end the war as swiftly as possible was not. Or would you prefer a history involving invasion of the Japanese mainland? That would have been far worse for both sides.

(05-28-2016 08:29 AM)Steve H Wrote:  Those hung at Nuremberg were war criminals and genocidal maniacs.

American and British forces bombed German cities to demoralize the German population after a horrific missile campaign against the British homeland. Japanese targets were bombed only to help reduce casualty counts of an American invasion fleet.

Post: #11

I was watching the news the other day and caught some "journalist" going on about how the bombing of Hiroshima was un-necessary and unjustified, how its debatable if it ended the war blah, blah, blah.

Seriously: What the fuck world do people live in when they come to these conclusions? THE JAPANESE ATTACKED US FIRST!











The fuckers had it coming.

And yes: The Zanesville/One Women paper is legit from everything I can tell.

Post: #12

Whatever your reasons, when you allow your leaders to invade a foreign nation then it's game on. Just like two guys on the street. Don't start nothing, wont be nothing. But if you pick a fight then you don't get to choose how badly the other guy beats you down.

Something we need to remember when our own leaders start clamouring for war with Russia etc over whatever false flag attack they've cooked up.

Post: #13

(05-28-2016 05:21 AM)Arado Wrote:  I'm no Obama apologist but I thought the speech was spot on, recognizing that Hiroshima represented the culmination of humanity's capacity for evil amid massive technological progress.

The fact that we have the technology to eliminate humanity isn't something we should treat lightly.

The DEATH MARCH of Bataan where wounded, starving and sick American POWs who could not walk were just bayoneted to death, The Mengele like treatment and experiments on US POWs in Japan, the forced labor of US POWs in Imperialist Japanese Arms factories as human shields against US Air raids were UNSPEAKABLE EVILs of a brutal gang like culture dominated by Yakuza Gangs to this day.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were merely retribution and levers to force unconditional surrender.

The many Imperial Japanese war crimes against USA and UK POWs were swept under the rug after the war since it was determined that a strong and prosperous democratic Japan would be necessary to contain Mao in China and Stalin in the Russian far East - Vladivostok and Kamchatka Naval Bases. Instead of remembering these Imperial Japanese war crimes against the USA troops before memorial day - the Hate America first Apologist in Chief decided to shite on the heroism of Harry S. Truman in decisively bringing WWII to a swift end and ending the unmentionable suffering and sacrifice of our troops in both the fight against Japan and against Maoist China in North Korea.

A service shirking pro Bernie Chicago SJW Saul Alinsky Marxist Communist community agitator like Obama reinforces his treasonous attitudes and history revisionism every time he opens his Hate and Apologize for America first vile sewer pipe of a mouth.

Post: #14

(05-27-2016 09:32 PM)Mike5055 Wrote:  "The world war that reached its brutal end in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations. Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art. Their thinkers had advanced ideas of justice and harmony and truth. And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints." - Japan was looking to conquer. Again, this statement isn't wrong.

That's true, but I wonder if Obama is also indirectly referring to the U.S. in the Philippines prior to WWII.

Post: #15

He didn't technically apologize but in the real world of persuasion, the optics made it look like one.

The Japanese Empire nearly killed my grandfather. They haven't ever apologized for attacking America first, for their atrocities in China, or for the horrible way they treated our prisoners. Fuck e'm, no apologies. This was a stupid thing to do.

Not that I fault them for that either. Unlike the self-hating Western world poisoned by half a century of Cultural Marxism, the Japanese know that that shit is in the past that very few people currently living had anything to do with and actually take pride in their nation. We can learn from Japan more than they can learn from us currently.

Post: #16

(05-28-2016 10:51 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  MARCH of Bataan where wounded, starving and sick American POWs who could not walk were just bayoneted to death, The Mengele like treatment and experiments on US POWs in Japan, the forced labor of US POWs in Imperialist Japanese Arms factories as human shields against US Air raids were UNSPEAKABLE EVILs of a brutal gang like culture dominated by Yakuza Gangs to this day.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were merely retribution and levers to force unconditional surrender.

You guys are off of your rockers if you think that anything that occurs between soldiers justifies immolating anywhere from tens of thousands, in some cases, to millions of civilians in other cases.

It's a bunch of hard talk when it isn't your women and children on the line.

If you think that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were retribution than you are are no better, and arguably much worse in in terms of what you support, than the Japanese soldiers that you cite.

Quote:A service shirking pro Bernie Chicago SJW Saul Alinsky Marxist Communist community agitator like Obama reinforces his treasonous attitudes and history revisionism every time he opens his Hate and Apologize for America first vile sewer pipe of a mouth.

That's a lot of hard anti-commie talk considering that the Japs were anti-communist; and communist subversives and spies ravaged America after the war when American cucks sided with Russia and then didn't roll to Moscow. Remind me of the communists that America fought in WWII?

(05-28-2016 10:32 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Whatever your reasons, when you allow your leaders to invade a foreign nation then it's game on. Just like two guys on the street. Don't start nothing, wont be nothing. But if you pick a fight then you don't get to choose how badly the other guy beats you down.

Cool. Well, then, better arm the troops with hollow points and mustard gas. Amirite? Is it ALL of the civilians that are fair game or is it just fair play when it is enemy civilians that are massacred by the millions?

Are you sure that you wouldn't be whining about genocide today if your family was ended with a nuke? That's rhetorical. Of course you would.

Post: #17

Obama chooses to deliver this speech right before Memorial Day.

I can't wait for him to leave the White House.

Post: #18

In an attempt to destroy Japanese industry, The U.S. sent over B-29s to conduct firebombing raids on various cities, including Tokyo:




This is damage due to incendiary bombs. Not nukes.

wikipedia Wrote:The Operation Meetinghouse air raid of 9–10 March 1945 was later estimated to be the single most destructive bombing raid in history

[Snip]

Damage to Tokyo's heavy industry was slight until firebombing destroyed much of the light industry that was used as an integral source for small machine parts and time-intensive processes. Firebombing also killed or made homeless many workers who had been taking part in war industry. Over 50% of Tokyo's industry was spread out among residential and commercial neighborhoods; firebombing cut the whole city's output in half. The destruction and damage was especially severe in the eastern areas of the city.

[snip]

The figure of roughly 100,000 deaths, provided by Japanese and American authorities, both of whom may have had reasons of their own for minimizing the death toll, seems to be arguably low in light of population density, wind conditions, and survivors' accounts. With an average of 103,000 inhabitants per square mile (396 people per hectare) and peak levels as high as 135,000 per square mile (521 people per hectare), the highest density of any industrial city in the world, and with firefighting measures ludicrously inadequate to the task, 15.8 square miles (41 km2) of Tokyo were destroyed on a night when fierce winds whipped the flames and walls of fire blocked tens of thousands fleeing for their lives. An estimated 1.5 million people lived in the burned out areas.

This was what the U.S. was doing on the regular in an effort to destroy their enemy. That was in March. It took until the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August for the Pacific fighting to end with Japan surrendering. Look up the death stats on the fighting preceding the atomic bombs.

Say what you will what the U.S. leadership did to get involved in World War I and even contribute to the punishment of Germany through the Versailles treaty and thus the Weimar Republic, and after World War II of their catering to Russian expansion and subversion of the West, but they weren't fighting a war to tickle the Japanese.

The whole affair was destruction unlike anything the world had ever seen. Hiroshima and Nagasaki just did with one bomb what the U.S. was already capable of doing in a single air raid in a single night with incendiary bombs.

The Rape of Nanking, which the Japanese committed against the Chinese

wikipedia Wrote:The massacre occurred over six weeks starting December 13, 1937, the day that the Japanese captured Nanjing. During this period, soldiers of the Imperial Japanese Army murdered Chinese civilians and disarmed combatants numbering an estimated 40,000 to over 300,000,[7][8] and perpetrated widespread rape and looting.

The U.S. wasn't fighting a bunch of angels here, on either front. This is just one of the many lessons that the 20th century has to offer on governments having as much power as they did.

Post: #19

(05-28-2016 08:24 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  You guys are off of your rockers if you think that anything that occurs between soldiers justifies immolating anywhere from tens of thousands, in some cases, to millions of civilians in other cases.

It's a bunch of hard talk when it isn't your women and children on the line.

If you think that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were retribution than you are are no better, and arguably much worse in in terms of what you support, than the Japanese soldiers that you cite.

The civilian death total for Hiroshima and Nagasaki is estimated between 125,000 and 250,000.

The Japanese murdered that many during The Battle of Manila alone. That was just one month. They occupied the Philippines for over three years.

Then you have the Rape of Nanking, the Sook Ching Massacre, the Burma Railway, the Three Alls.

Then you have the hundreds of thousands of sex slaves, not to mention countless rapes.

They killed millions of people across like 10 different countries.

And all of that is before you take into account what their allies (Nazis) were doing.

If that weren't enough, the Japanese were forcing their women and children to serve as soldiers and kamikazes to repel invaders. A conventional invasion would have killed just as many civilians as bombs did.

Post: #20

(05-28-2016 10:51 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 05:21 AM)Arado Wrote:  I'm no Obama apologist but I thought the speech was spot on, recognizing that Hiroshima represented the culmination of humanity's capacity for evil amid massive technological progress.

The fact that we have the technology to eliminate humanity isn't something we should treat lightly.

The DEATH MARCH of Bataan where wounded, starving and sick American POWs who could not walk were just bayoneted to death, The Mengele like treatment and experiments on US POWs in Japan, the forced labor of US POWs in Imperialist Japanese Arms factories as human shields against US Air raids were UNSPEAKABLE EVILs of a brutal gang like culture dominated by Yakuza Gangs to this day.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were merely retribution and levers to force unconditional surrender.

The many Imperial Japanese war crimes against USA and UK POWs were swept under the rug after the war since it was determined that a strong and prosperous democratic Japan would be necessary to contain Mao in China and Stalin in the Russian far East - Vladivostok and Kamchatka Naval Bases. Instead of remembering these Imperial Japanese war crimes against the USA troops before memorial day - the Hate America first Apologist in Chief decided to shite on the heroism of Harry S. Truman in decisively bringing WWII to a swift end and ending the unmentionable suffering and sacrifice of our troops in both the fight against Japan and against Maoist China in North Korea.

A service shirking pro Bernie Chicago SJW Saul Alinsky Marxist Communist community agitator like Obama reinforces his treasonous attitudes and history revisionism every time he opens his Hate and Apologize for America first vile sewer pipe of a mouth.

No one is denying the atrocities of the Japanese - the decision to use the atomic bomb was the CORRECT one, both in terms of saving U.S. and Japanese lives. I've seen plenty of documentaries on the Pacific theatre and the Japanese and what they've done, especially in the Rape of Nanking. It's infuriating to know that they're still not willing to admit what they did during the war.

Obama's speech actually has little to do with World War Two and the decision to bomb Japan. His speech is actually a meditation on human nature and progress. His point is that even though humanity has advanced tremendously in terms of technology, science, philosophy, etc, our base instincts will still lead to violence and destruction. Problem is now we have the means to destroy ourselves so we should be more introspective about why long term peace is still so elusive.

Quote:Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

The world war that reached its brutal end in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations. Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art. Their thinkers had advanced ideas of justice and harmony and truth. And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints....

in the image of a mushroom cloud that rose into these skies, we are most starkly reminded of humanity's core contradiction. How the very spark that marks us as a species, our thoughts, our imagination, our language, our toolmaking, our ability to set ourselves apart from nature and bend it to our will — those very things also give us the capacity for unmatched destruction.

His point is that war is intrinsic to the human condition no matter how advanced technologically we have become. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were both on the forefront of technological progress and integrated into the world economy, but yet they weren't able to avoid becoming warlike and aggressive.

This speech is NOT an apology for the bombing, and it is NOT an attempt to diminish the US's moral high ground during the war. His point is that "Man, why does humanity suck so much that we were forced into the position to use weapons like this?"

This echoes Obama's Nobel Peace Prize speech, which also touched on the same themes - that war will always be with us as a species, but we have to try and think of how to avoid it as much as possible.

That's a very fair point.

Breitbart discredits itself by twisting everything Obama says as an attack on America. Now, if you want to see a real Obama apology tour you have to check out his speech in Cairo a few years ago where he said he will stand with Islam. That shit pissed me off. But this Hiroshima speech was in a completely different tone.

Post: #21

(05-28-2016 10:31 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  I was watching the news the other day and caught some "journalist" going on about how the bombing of Hiroshima was un-necessary and unjustified, how its debatable if it ended the war blah, blah, blah.

Seriously: What the fuck world do people live in when they come to these conclusions? THE JAPANESE ATTACKED US FIRST!

False flag.

Post: #22

(05-28-2016 08:24 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  You guys are off of your rockers if you think that anything that occurs between soldiers justifies immolating anywhere from tens of thousands, in some cases, to millions of civilians in other cases.

It's a bunch of hard talk when it isn't your women and children on the line.

If you think that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were retribution than you are are no better, and arguably much worse in in terms of what you support, than the Japanese soldiers that you cite.

Do you understand the concept of "total war?" It's where you don't limit your attack to just the enemy army. You attack and destroy or steal everything single thing your enemy uses to wage war against you. That is how you win absolute, unquestionable victory.

If you don't want your women and children put at risk, then you should not wage offensive wars of conquest against enemies who are bigger and more powerful. If you put your women and children to work in factories that produce the materials of war, they cease to be innocent. If I burn or loot the food supply that feeds your army after you attacked me, and your wife or children starve as a result, their blood is on your hands.

Those nukes saved Japanese lives.They saved allied lives. They brought immediate end to a war that had dragged on for years. They sent a message to Russia that they had better comply with the terms laid out in Yalta.

I guess you don't want to MAGA?

Post: #23

Even the Japanese think Obama's petulant, unicorn embracing values and speech are bullshit. Obama wanted to directly apologize, but they said no, and so he had to use different useless platitudes.

Nagasaki and Hiroshima weren't even the worst destruction in Japan, and the Japanese didn't even know that nukes were a different kind of weapon until after the war was over.

And had we not firebombed Japan into surrender, then we would have had to invade the mainland. And we would have killed almost every last Japanese, because a metric shit ton of Soldiers and Marines were pissed off after everything that happened in the Pacific.

But men like Obama don't understand that, that just make apologies for men they share no sense of history with, because they have no pride in their people, their country, and no understanding of its history.

Men like Obama are men in the poorest sense of the word, and go through life looking for "that a boy's" to make up for their own lack of morals and internal fortitude.

Post: #24

(05-29-2016 01:14 AM)Enigma Wrote:  The Japanese murdered that many during The Battle of Manila alone. That was just one month. They occupied the Philippines for over three years.

My grandfather served in that theater of war behind enemy lines. The occupation of the Philippine Islands was no Sunday picnic.

If Obama wants to cement his legacy, he can sit with Buchanan and Hoover.

Post: #25

All these apologies and counter apologies and constantly dredging up of history is just geo-political maneuvering at the end of the day.

Obama is apologizing because he's just following the script and also probably because his foreign diplomacy blows and he always comes across as a cuck.

Remember when he bowed in deference to the Saudi King and also did a deep bow to the emperor of Japan? or how about when Raul Castro made him look like a total idiot?

His foreign diplomacy composure is a joke especially when compared to Putin who does not embarass himself like this in front of foreign leaders. Can you imagine seeing Xi Jinping or Putin bowing to a Saudi King or getting left on the runway and tooled in front of the media by a little insignificant P.O.S country like Cuba?

Fuck no.


Anyways, the U.S. foreign policy script is to cozy up with apologies and platitudes about WW2 Japan when China pisses you off somehow.

Then it trolls China into issuing some public statement voicing their displeasure. Then Shinzo Abe visits the Yasukuni shrine for the 100th time to troll China some more until it becomes a statement voicing outrage.

South Korea then gets pissed and issues some statement condemning Japan. Tensions get ratcheted up all around until it's diffused at some meeting where things are normalized once more.

Rinse and repeat.

In this situation is sounds like Japan is walking it back a little because they don't want to piss off Korea or China too much at the moment.

Tensions are still running high when it comes to the Spratley island disputes in southeast asia and Japan kind of overplayed its hand a little too much in supporting Vietnam and Philippines' stance.