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How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
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Anabasis to Desta Away
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Post: #26
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
Very interesting thread.

Most people lie but there's always some motive behind it. Lying on your resume, lying to a girl you're trying to take home from a bar or a girl lying about the number of sexual partners she had ... "Just two boyfriends" - I get that. We all do that. I even get guys lying about "I made a 100k last year" or ridiculous shit like " I was Special forces in the Navy". Don't like it but it's understandable since it seems to be a function of the male ego.

Never understood compulsive liars though. The type of guys whose lies make no sense at all. I see it as some form of addiction.

Like lying about having a burrito for lunch instead of a burger. What fucking difference does that make to a person you barely even know? I know a guy back in ND who told everybody he had a son and how much he loved him . That he bought his son this and that. Few months later his wife shows up with cute 4-year old daughter. Some of the guys ask him where his boy is and she says " we don't have a son , just a daughter". Oh ... he also said his wife lived in Arizona but she's a Georgia girl who's never even been there.

I don't how to deal with these people but the BEST WAY to sniff them out is simple. Their stories are always inconsistent, sometimes contradicting each other. They tend to slightly stutter and look downward and leftward when they talk. When they say something, it seems less of a statement ... but more of a salespitch. Without having anything to sell. If someone is trying to "sell" you something insignificant that's not worth selling he's most likely a compulsive liar.

They also tend to put in detail where details are not necessary.

A normal guy would tell you he had a lot to drink Saturday night. A compulsive liar would tell you ... " I had 5 shots of Fireball, a six-pack and a Cuba Libre some girl bought me while I was dancing next to the DJ booth ". Unnecessary.

The human brain is fascinating.
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 01:56 PM by Anabasis to Desta.)
05-29-2016 01:47 PM
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Post: #27
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
The more I think about it, he might be a psychopath; they're the Cluster B who least affects me, so they tend to fly under my radar.

Borderlines are the worst; they suck me in because they're an endless cypher, and I'm a problem-solving kind of guy. They also feed my vanity through their splitting; loving me at first, and then turning full-snake on me halfway into the relationship. Histrionics spread negative shit socially, and since I'm not a gossip - since I don't concern myself with that nonsense - it tends to affect me pooorly, and Narcissists hate me because I speak the blunt truth - but psychopaths? They just go around manipulating, which is what I do (minus the evil intentions), so it's not immediately obvious to me what's going on.

Now that said - I also prefer to think that I'm making some sort of mistake than to just write these people off.

One of the first lessons of Game is not to project a male mind onto a woman. As men, we like to have our ego stroked; women want a guy whom she can admire, and not the reverse. So I'm wondering if there's something similar at play here?

Let's say you call the compulsive liar a liar, to his face. I think most of us here would be pretty seriously insulted by that - but how would the compulsive liar respond? Would he decide that you were the better liar, and therefore respect you? Or maybe fear you, and back off with his desire for friendship (that's the other reason they're difficult in organizations - they're connected, and they also want to be your best friend - until all of a sudden they don't)?

Overall, the Avoid option is clearly the best, but I wonder if there's an effective way to counter their shenanigans when they can't be avoided.

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05-29-2016 02:34 PM
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samsamsam Offline
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Post: #28
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
It seems like you find some value in knowing him. And, I apologize if I misread this, you want to know him because of this value.

If this is the case, the biggest growth move is acceptance on your part. Meaning, you get who he is and this is part of the price you pay to get what you want from him.

I imagine a compulsive liar may not react well to trying to be outdone or called out on it. It may also alter his effectiveness in what you are seeking to get from him (this is a minor point. I doubt a compulsive liar will stop).

Sort of like you want to bang a girl but she is a dipshit, you just put up with it. You accept it and make an internal deal with yourself.

The true value of knowledge is the truth (sounds obvious I know). You know he is a liar - so everything goes through that filter. If you are bothered by it still - after accepting he is a liar - it may be an internal issue on your part.

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05-29-2016 02:38 PM
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Post: #29
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
(05-29-2016 01:47 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  Never understood compulsive liars though. The type of guys whose lies make no sense at all. I see it as some form of addiction.

Like lying about having a burrito for lunch instead of a burger. What fucking difference does that make to a person you barely even know?

I think you're right, it is a kind of addiction, similar to kleptos who steal shit they don't even need. It gives them some kind of cheap dopamine hit, knowing they got away with it.
05-29-2016 02:58 PM
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Post: #30
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
The issue is the instability it causes. Often with the compulsive liar, their contradictions will eventually put you between a rock and a hard place; forced to pick sides on an issue when, really, there ought not to be any sides. Or, because I was previously indulging him in his lies, he suddenly gets surprised and offended when he realizes I don't believe him.

Without going into too many details, it's a case of him being hard to avoid. Members of the same organization, he's done some favours for me, and vice versa, but his compulsive lying turns a mutually beneficial relationship into something mercurial and dangerous. I plan to start distancing myself from him - moving to casual acquaintances from any sort of friendship, de-escalating relations - but I suspect that there's a better way of handling these people.

One datapoint that may be relevant: I first met him while I was having a boring conversation with one of the other members, he came over to join and then proceeded to dominate things. I was literally caught in the middle, each time the first man would talk - boring or not - I'd try and listen to his story, only to have the compulsive liar interrupt and demand my attention. Not occasionally - constantly. The sort of thing that you try and forgive initially - maybe he's just drunk and excitable tonight, maybe he's just a bit socially awkward despite being extroverted (haven't we all rudely spoken over somebody before?) - but now I'm thinking it might be an early warning sign.

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(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 03:38 PM by Aurini.)
05-29-2016 03:36 PM
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Post: #31
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
(05-29-2016 03:36 PM)Aurini Wrote:  but I suspect that there's a better way of handling these people.

There isn't unless you have a lot of experience dealing with these people. Lying disorders are some of the trickiest issues to deal with. They come in all shapes and sizes even though people always want to generalize them - a pathological liar is this or a compulsive liar is that. It is much more complex than that. These disorders develop in early childhood and are very complicated. Unless you have years of free time to figure these people out then you are better off distancing yourself from this man.
05-29-2016 05:14 PM
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AnonymousBosch Away
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Post: #32
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
This is targeted purely at Davis, so everyone else, feel free to skip over my rambling.

(05-28-2016 05:43 PM)Aurini Wrote:  As for me, I'm willing to believe pretty much anything you tell me, so long as it doesn't mean any sort of financial investment or emotional commitment on my part.

You've answered your own question.

Quote:He's the sort of guy you'd like to spend time with, that you'd like to network with or do business with

This is your urge to 'fix' and 'save' people coming out again, Davis, which is something I struggled with for years myself. You know what his deal - don't try to imagine a nobler, 'if only...' fantasy construct for him. He is what he is. If his lies are non-destructive to those around him, you can either tolerate them with good humour, find other company or directly-challenge him.

Quote:Have any of you guys run into characters like this? How do you deal with them? If you call them out will they respect you more?

A large majority of women are compulsive liars to generate sympathy, so I'm not bothered by it in women. That just requires game, and some degree of non-reactivity to bullshit. (This is why I've encouraged greater non-reactivity in you to personal attacks by those who lie about you, so as to lower your LolCow status in the eyes of those who actively seek to milk you, because you are on the radar of /cow/ and Kiwifarms. Righteous anger will only excite them).

Whilst people are talking about Psycho/Sociopaths in this thread, and you're considering that, what you're describing sounds much more mundane to my ears. It's just the Gamma Male thing again that Vox Day has absolutely nailed down in his writing.

You know how Progressive types jostle for Social Status via Virtue Signaling? All the Gamma Males I've known jostle for Social Status using Exaggeration and Inflation of their Lived Experiences and Accomplishments.

The key giveaway you're offering me is their both their observable, genuine achievements; the lack of outright maliciousness intent behind their falsehoods; and their tendency to rewrite a shared reality on the fly, even in front of multiple witnesses.

Gamma Gamma Gamma.

Are you familiar with the concept of 'Staircase Wit'? Where someone insults you passing by on a staircase and you only think of the perfect response by the time you've reached the bottom of it and they're long gone?

From what I've observed, Gamma Males seem so consumed by how other people view them that they recognise even as they're telling a story its not painting them in the best light, so you'll get what I can only describe as this jarring crunch of gears as Reality is replaced by what I think of as Staircase Reality, sometimes, mid-sentence.

I posted pics on here a while back of my Gamma teenage friend Eeyore rewriting a "I only see you as a friend and that's all we'll ever be" letter from a girl in front of my eyes in class, and then presenting this proof-read, rewritten version to me as 'proof' of how into him he was. You have to understand their reality is that delusional, and they hate that bubble of protection being popped. (Incidentally, he's was the only man I've ever met who dots every 'I' with a circle, in classic teenage girl fashion).

My stepfather is terrible for this. A lovely, caring man otherwise but grew up very socially-isolated on a farm and neglected by his mother because she'd lost a previous male child around his second birthday, so reacted to this by barely bonding with my stepfather at all, just in case. He is so desperate to be loved by everyone around him, that he'll constantly be halfway through a story, and then someone will interrupt with a comment such as:

"Why didn't you do X?"

This is usually stated as such an obvious course of action, the Gamma then must panic and realise the story is making them come off bad.

Reliably, the next sentence will begin with "I should have..." but by the end of the paragraph the original Reality has become Staircase Reality: "And then I..."; "And I told them..."

You know how poor writers often change tense mid-story? Similar concept.

Since the listeners see this happening, no-one believes them. My mother was always rolling her eyes at this and complaining about how he'd "... big note himself like a hero, but the moment conflict happens, he shut down like a wimp and I have to step up and take charge."

My sister just sighs in that 'patronising babysitter taking about a youthful charge manner' when she discusses this: "Well, you know [stepdad] and his alternative reality. Let him have it, because he won't listen anyway."

We all tolerate it, but the problem is, it makes him immensely-unlikeable to people who don't know him, and this is the danger of friendships with Gamma Liars: you risk their social stigma poisoning your own standing. This is why I've never gotten involved with him in any of his outside hobbies, even though he's encouraged me to.

He has a habit of taking up a hobby, joining an existing group; deciding everyone is doing it wrong and he knows just how to fix it; putting himself in a position to take over the said group because he makes himself useful by doing the boring stuff that no-one wants to do; getting into power; drastically-changing everything and the group collapsing because of it, one of them even forming their own club to specifically keep him out.

[Image: NoHomers3.jpg]

I've sometimes wondered if I could weaponise him, and get him involved in local Green Politics.

He took up a new hobby late last year, out of the blue, saying he was 'tired of the politics' in the old club. A mate of mine - even he jokes about '[Stepdad] Reality' - "I'm guessing they overthrew him."

My stepdad: "Yeah this new hobby is great... you can kind of just do your own thing and compete against yourself."

I'm thinking: "Maybe he's finally learnt his lesson."

Talking to him on the phone in Feb: "So a group of us went to get our scores and the guy there was telling us no-one handed in scores for the second round, so I said [imagined Alpha Confrontation he's incapable of]. I can't believe they're letting someone like that keep scores..."

I'm thinking: "And so it begins..."

On the phone last week: "... so I went to this event and they didn't have enough food on site for everyone. I don't know why they don't get people to sign up online first and pay the money upfront so they know exactly how many people are coming. I'll bring it up at the next meeting."

I'm thinking: "Ah cool, I want to get into that hobby when I'm back in Oz. I should be able to buy cheap all that Top Of The Line Expensive Equipment he bought to make everyone in the club envy him, which he would think would mean they'd like him, by the end of the year."

Look, he's family, we're stuck with him. We love him, but, for fuck's sake, it can be damn hard to tolerate him at times, which is probably part of the reason I have the patience of a saint with women's bullshit. Having him in my life growing up taught me a lot about non-reactivity, which women adore in a guy, so I can thank him for that, but, man, it's taken my sister and I thirty plus years to get him to the stage where he only talks over us half of the time by, say, offering a solution to a problem we haven't even got all the details out of yet.

Have you ever seen a dying woman whose been drifting in and out of a coma for days, hear someone arrogantly-talking over a doctor trying to explain what doses of Morphine and how regularly she needs to be shot up with, summoning up all her strength to sit her shriveled, wretched body into a sitting position to firmly say "WILL YOU JUST LISTEN? YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING!" My Sister and I have, but I'm not entirely sure he did.

Reality-rewriting Gammas are deeply-damaged and insecure in a way that's hard to understand to normally-socialised people, so it's not just a matter of, say, being at a pub where a mate is exaggerating and you can say "Oh, pull the other one, mate" and everyone laughs and moves on. If you do that to a gamma, they will remember the social embarrassment and will spend years privately-seething and seeking to destroy you, and their previously-stated tendency to infiltrate administrative positions like a lesbo means they usually end up in being in a position to do so.

By this stage of my life, I simply don't have Gamma Friends - once I gave up having Feminist-Indoctrinated Sympathy for being Fair and Nice and Letting Everyone Play, even if they're Willful Losers, my social circle improved immensely and I don't stumble across them outside of work environments. There'll be other network and social opportunities. I'm very wary of the Millennial Generations because I see there's a huge component of gamma males and - unbelievably - even gamma females, which I'd never run into before until this generation, and I have a suspicion this has something to do with absent fathers / dominant, narcissistic mothers in a childhood relationship.

If you really need to continue the relationship with the man in question, simply bring a beautiful woman into the mix. The level of contempt the female sex has for Gammas is mindblowing, and they try the patience of even the nicest, 'just be yourself and girls will like you / i only see you as a friend' girly-girl eventually loses her patience with them. The Gamma won't try to destroy them, because, they believe they could still - somehow - win her heart if only she's see him for the noble knight he is, but eventually the cognitive dissonance makes them move on and find a more receptive audience.

It took my sister fifteen years to shake one guy that we all referred to as 'Fan Club' often enough that we eventually forgot his actual name. One day she just snapped over his constant slimy attempts at integration and just physically-launched into him, fists and all, screaming 'just leave me alone'. Everyone watching was amazed because usually she's a ultra-polite, soft-spoken girly-girl, but, amazingly, this wasn't the first time I'd seen a woman physically-attack a Gamma for seemingly-no reason.

This is how awkward gammas make social interaction, and why I'd suggest you cut them out of your life. Otherwise, they'll be sulking at parties; mouthing off and starting fights that you're supposed to get involved in; creeping girls out by being overly-supportive and white-knighty; creating schisms in existing groups forcing you to choose sides. It's not worth it.

I finally got rid of Eeyore in my teen years due to the younger sister of a friend - beautiful girl - who learnt to despise him enough that she just would sneer
"RRRRRRRR!" - what Aussies would recognise as the 'onya!' grunt - every time he tried to speak his Staircase Reality. He drifted away into a Loser Scene that had even lower value than D&D Geeks or the Goth Fags. Yes, that's possible. He described it as 'the only scene in town', genuinely-believing it.

Staircase Reality, brother. I always laugh when I see Losers retweeting this. At least they're honest about it:

[Image: e360cc8b3a9cc0453e58786af11538c9.jpg]

I don't know if any of that is any help or not, but it's something to consider in terms of Threat Assessment.
05-29-2016 08:34 PM
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Post: #33
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
God Damned Gamma Male; you nailed it, Bosch. I am way too nice and forgiving, even though I know the Latin root of that word.

They simultaneously lie about their accomplishments to build themselves up, and then tell you some sort of disgusting and shameful fact about their life. They swagger about, pretending to be Alpha, annoying people in the process, and then bend over in a submissive pose like a bitch.

I need to work on my Gamma-dar.

Figure I'll use logistics to distance him from myself so that his stink doesn't stick around, and let somebody higher up in the organization and/or one of the women deal with him.

Picture very much related.

[Image: Raise%20That%20Posterior_zpsit3icwbb.png~original]

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm still the FNG in this organization; I'm at the "Be friendly to everyone" stage, trying to pick out the toxic individuals one at a time. Already caught one with the leftoid mind-virus eating through his brain, this guy's the second. Ah, well - from the sounds of things he might have some hobby-related equipment I'll be able to buy on the cheap, soon. Wink

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(This post was last modified: 05-29-2016 09:27 PM by Aurini.)
05-29-2016 09:18 PM
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Post: #34
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
Not much needs to be done usually. In most cases everyone else knows that they're full of shit, and the ones who are on board with it are either hopelessly dumb or hoping to get something out of them.

Persuading the hopelessly dumb is best done with the identity arguments that Scott Adams describes. The ones hoping to get something out of them are harder to deal with and best dealt with by strategic alliances.
05-29-2016 09:43 PM
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AnonymousBosch Away
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Post: #35
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
Sorry, I've gone off on a tangent. I'd better split this across multiple parts:

PART ONE

The thing is mate, I'm not even sure they're conscious that they're pretending to be Alpha. I suspect they genuinely-believe they are, and there's some type of, well, disassociation happening until they can no longer avoid Reality.

(05-29-2016 09:18 PM)Aurini Wrote:  Ah, well - from the sounds of things he might have some hobby-related equipment I'll be able to buy on the cheap, soon. Wink

That'll depend on the nature of the hobby. The danger is two-fold:

- Are the current leaders of the group lazy, particularly if they're on the Alpha Side of things, and would rather be doing than organising?

- Are there enough other Gamma Losers in the group who have even less value than him, that he could charm to gain a sizeable voting base?

So whilst you're probably fairly-safe in an MMA or a Hunting Club, where you'll have to perform or GTFO, (though you'd still be surprised), what about something like, say a Writer's Group, a Neighbourhood Watch Committee, or a Model Aeroplane club?

Now, writing this all out, here's a theory I'll spitball for you. Get out your tinfoil hat:

Based upon my observations above, I'd label 'Staircase Reality' as the need to overwrite Observable Reality with a Fantasy Construct in the name of Greater Social Power.

Note my description of my Stepfather above:

Quote:He has a habit of taking up a hobby, joining an existing group; deciding everyone is doing it wrong and he knows just how to fix it; putting himself in a position to take over the said group because he makes himself useful by doing the boring stuff that no-one wants to do; getting into power; drastically-changing everything and the group collapsing because of it.

I'd originally note how this resembles your typical flow of Institution Subversion by the Short-Haired Lesbian set but removed it for brevity purposes.

Note my comment at the start about thinking they're genuinely-disassociated from reality.

Who is more delusional about reality than a Radical Lesbian Feminist?

I've spoken in the past about how Lesbian Women are significantly-more likely than straight women to be infertile due to Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, which is caused by Hyper-androgenism: high levels of males steroids in their blood, like testosterone. Even in our current Science Hatefacts Climate, this is freely-talked about.

Theory One:

What if Radical Lesbians aren't just masculine women, they're women with enough testosterone in their system that they're crossed the gender line to behave in the manner of the men in the lowest level of the Male Sexual Marketplace?

What if Lesbians are actually just Gamma Males?

Now, look what is happening with Gamergate, Technology, Comic Books, Science Fiction and Tabletop Gaming. Once upon a time, this was firmly the territory of Gamma Losers, and no teenage girl would have been caught dead seriously engaging in it, since back in my day it was the Girls who desperately-craved to be 'grown up' far ahead of their time, to the degree that most of my teenage sexual experiences were escalated by the girls I was with. (I recognise this will sound like bullshit to you younger guys. It was a different culture back then - girls dropped anything considered 'childish' on the first day of high school).

Suddenly, there's all these women demanding entry into the space and loudly-bitching about it. Which women? Well, a particular type of woman, usually overweight, deliberately-uglified and proudly-bragging about their sexually-abnormality.

Basically, Lesbian Women or Straight Women so unfuckable they're all acting like Traditional Gamma Males, and I find it hilarious that they're looking down at the nerds and sneering at them, not realising they're just the female version with a cheap bottle of hair dye and ugly piercings.

As I've gotten older, I've lost my patience with what I see as easily-identifiable Gamma Art. I don't just dislike it, or get angry about it. I sit there, stone-faced, disgusted to my core, wanting to tell the creator to man the fuck up in as contemptuous a voice as possible.

Yeah, I've become a Disappointed Dad.

There's certain common tells:

- hyper-specific obscure references they'd believe only people as 'cool' as them would get;

- weird private jokes that aren't funny to the casual observer;

- immature fixations on things socially-secure people grow out of;

- constant repetition of jokes they heard someone else get a laugh out of before;

- a need to break the fourth wall and point out the tropes of the genre, since they think identifying these is a sign of superior intelligence;

- nerds punching above their weight class with beautiful, strong women who are inexplicably-attracted to them;

- highly-stylised dialogue that resembles how no human beings alive actually talk, showing their complete ignorance of social reality.

Off the top of my head, some Key Gamma Texts:

[Image: 220px-Gremlins2poster.jpg]

[Image: 250px-Day_of_the_Tentacle_artwork.jpg]

[Image: Redshirts.jpg]

[Image: shaun-of-the-dead-poster-woven-throw.jpg]

[Image: scott_pilgrim_cover.jpg]

Controversially, (and I don't know why no-one else can see the obvious Gamma Loser but me):

[Image: 40958.jpg]

Sometimes, even, the Gamma is so Gamma they become the female self-insert character:

[Image: Buffy_S5.jpg]

Or sometimes it even gets so bad that their hyperspecific obscurity becomes all about their own work:

[Image: 2672.jpg]

Note how all these Gamma Creators are shaping an almost Gnostic Reality in which they are the True Gods that everyone will look up to and worship. Don't you wish you were as cool as them?

So, now Female Creators are entering Nerd Culture and doing their Girl Power Things. What are we seeing, even just from my vastly-distanced view of Nerd Culture, only seeing what Gamergate shows me:

- Weird private jokes about 'Ethics in hammer wielding' and 'mansplaining' to clearly delineate between the cool clique and the losers who 'don't get it';

- Comic characters breaking the fourth wall and discussing awareness of their own tropes;

- TV show characters speaking in the stylised dialogue that alternates wildly between trite snark and emotional hysteria, that I think of as 'Whedonesque';

- A much praised video game starring a teenage girl who speaks like no teenage girl alive, populated with hyper-specific references to zine culture, riot grrl and 90's conspiracy theories;

- Girls embracing the movie version of 'Scott Pilgrim';

- Trailers for Feminist Ghostbusters that quotes 'That's going to leave a mark' from 'Tommy Boy', lifts a joke from 'Young Frankenstein', and uses the ubiquitous 'Really?' as a punchline.

Gamma Gamma Gamma. Now it just has a Vagina.

... more to come...
05-30-2016 12:35 AM
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Post: #36
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
I can't tell if Bosch has a higher functioning brain, or has become a premature curmudgeon.

Also known as Pre-curm.

Pulp fiction, I can't see it. Your other references I get, though prior to your post I wouldn't even have thought this deeply about it.
That was gold.
05-30-2016 03:33 AM
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Post: #37
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
^ Ha, I'm full-curm by now, mate. A friend's wife was stabbed by [marginalised victim population] last week, cutting my holiday short, so I'm lost my patience with anything I see as encouraging an immature mindset and growth stagnation by selling the false message that Losers are the Real Heroes. My stepdad (55) was raving about how hilarious 'Deadpool' was - he was talking about fourth wall breaking and movie references - and I was thinking "You'd better get fat arse down to the gym instead of watching superhero crap because you're not fucking prepared for what is coming down the pike."

Either that or my grumpiness with this is probably about reaching middle age, realising time is short, and noticing creators are increasingly hyper-obsessed with regurgitating already well-mined crap or off in their own private worlds, uninterested in true engagement with an audience, offering no insight into the greater human condition. QC probably understands where I'm coming from.

This is particularly true of the Marxist Creators. It's just turning into a parade of scenes being repurposed from movies you've already seen, where you do this moment because that's the moment that always happens at this point in these films. Nothing is truly being said.

I loathe this Gamma Art. Masturbation for one's amusement is supposed to be a solitary pursuit, not one that involves an audience.

Even more so, I hate the losers whom actually think they're 'Empowered' by passively-watching such shit. Look at the Failures Of Humanity praising Ghostbusters for 'smashing the patriarchy'.

To clarify QT: Think Jackie Brown, Kill Bill, Death Proof and it might be more obvious. Actors being cast for being in old movies that require hyper-specific genre knowledge to know? Highly-stylised styles reflecting other movies? Much discussion by the director how scenes were written or staged based upon other scenes in other obscure movies? The way 'From Dusk Til Dawn' makes a big deal about fucking with genre tropes of switching from a crime film to a horror movie halfway through?

It doesn't get more Gamma than Darryl Hannah walking into the Hospital in 'Kill Bill' whistling the theme to 'Twisted Nerve'. It's just given a 'cool' veneer via the Sex and Violence, when the intention isn't that functionally-different than having Gremlins act out ancient Loony Tunes routines and singing 'New York New York'. Note the casting of then-genre favourites such as Dick Miller and Christopher Lee in Gremlins 2. Note Robert Forster and Pam Grier both being dug up for Jackie Brown. Note the 'lost reel' in 'Death Proof' breaking the fourth wall. Note the Gremlins wrecking the projector and stopping the actual movie in 'Gremlins 2', breaking the fourth wall.

Dunno, just seems obvious to my eyes, but I'll admit QT has enough of a style he can pull it off better than your average gamma. (Admittedly, I haven't watched his last three or four films since he turned into a Virtue-Signalling Marxist Tool).

I understand it sounds petty, but I'll explain why I see this Gamma 'Staircase Reality' Delusion as being so dangerous to society when I have time to write Part 2 tomorrow.

Oh, apparently the ending of the new Ghostbusters involves a big production number with possessed cops all dancing to 'You Could Be Dancing' by the Bee Gees. This is a classic example of the sort of thing a Gamma thinks is Funny and Clever that just makes my heart harden into the blackest coal with the utter laziness of imagination.

Wait... didn't one of the Ghostbusters lick her gun in a sexy manner in the trailer? I'm sure I've seen multiple hot bad girls with swords do that in other trashy films...
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 07:19 AM by AnonymousBosch.)
05-30-2016 07:18 AM
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Post: #38
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
(05-30-2016 03:33 AM)cubanlinx Wrote:  I can't tell if Bosch has a higher functioning brain, or has become a premature curmudgeon.

Based on his other posts it's definitely the first one but that doesn't exclude the second one.

I'm not familiar with Gremlins 2, The Day of the Tentacle, Redshirts (besides what Vox Day has written about Scalzi), or the Scott Pilgrim comics.

Buffy is obvious with it's girl power theme.
Shaun of the Dead with it's nerd to hero theme is less obvious but relatively easy to spot.
I watched Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back when it first came out. I remember it being a silly but enjoyable movie, not good enough to watch more than once. So I can't remember enough to know why it's Gamma. But at the time Clerks, Chasing Amy and even Mall Rats were relatively popular movies. (Other popular Kevin Smith movies)

Pulp Fiction was an ok, but largely overrated movie. Besides casting Uma Thurman as a super hot woman, I don't see how the movie is Gamma. I never saw Uma as hot, she wasn't ugly but she was always just average looking.

Looking forward to AB expanding on these points


Going back to the original question about dealing with compulsive liars, I try to distance myself from them. If they're going to be untrustworthy about something as mundane as what they had for lunch, they're going to be untrustworthy when it comes to important stuff.

Where I'm unsure about what to do is when one of these losers join your social group and other people seem to like him. If you try to get rid of him, you look like an insecure asshole. If you do nothing eventually drama starts happening that causes your once great group to implode.
05-30-2016 08:05 AM
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Post: #39
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
I would certainly echo what has been mentioned in this thread: don't be abrasive by any means, but avoid these types as much as possible, or merely tolerate their lies at best if you stand to gain something from your association.

In any case, especially considering the fact that these people are often in positions of relative importance in whatever organizations you happen to come across them, the worst thing that you can do is call out them out on their bullshit. Feel free to mention it to other people if you want, but never to their faces.

The reason for this of course is that (as Bosch alluded to), they will equate any breakage of their idealization of themselves (or 'staircase reality') as an attack by the perpetrator of said heinous act, and will retaliate in a manner which in their minds is proportionate to the emotional suffering that you have forced them to undergo. The thing that these people value most is their falsely constructed reality, or ego, and they WILL make you suffer for any emotional discomfort that you cause them.

The danger of these types is that they never forget any slights made to their ego, and will use whatever resources they have at their disposal (thus social or organizational influence) to get their revenge.

Bottom line: be very careful!

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05-30-2016 08:30 AM
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Post: #40
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
Scott Pilgrim (film, not comic): Gamma stalks a woman, murdering her evil exes under the delusion that he's protecting her. The video gamey style violence is how he thinks reality works, and the happy ending is a made-up fantasy.

Kevin Smith: Chasing Amy was about the BPD who ruined him in real life, alienated him from all his friends, and left him a broken shell of a man, but he thinks that he learned something in the process. He didn't, he just castrated himself. Clerks was about being a loser in your early twenties - something we can all relate to. His remaining films are about remaining a loser for the rest of your life. Jay and Silent Bob was just about stewing in your own farts; a pointless film made because the other films existed.

Everything by Tarantino: style over substance, ironic hipster humour, edgy dialogue.

There are two common themes in the works he listed: first, that they don't come from a place of insight into the human soul, that they don't have a compelling reason to exist. They're the adult equivalent of 80s cartoons that only existed to sell action figures. Second, they're all very in love with themselves, to the exclusion of all else. "I reject your reality and substitute my own." They're not interested in dialogue, they'd rather lecture. Star Wars - as simple as it is - dialogues with the audience, kids want to be Jedis. Kevin Smith films are about adults pretending to be kids pretending to be Jedis. "Yo, dude, do you, like - remember that time we did that thing?"

That said, I'd give Gremlins 2 a pass. Instead of trying to turn the original into a franchise, they riffed off it, and made a creative horror/comedy with some great visuals and special effects - that said, I haven't seen it in years, and I have no idea how it would stand up.

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05-30-2016 09:00 AM
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Post: #41
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
In my youth I had a friend who coincidentally was a huge Mama's boy, raised by a shrew of an overbearing woman, and was one boy in a family of 5 sisters-a couple of them were quite good looking. He started this habit as a young adult of telling my stories and adventures as his own, with him in first person. He obviously never did it around me but other friends would tell me how he was telling everyone he was the main character in many of my crazy, interesting stories. I never called him on it because I really didn't even know what to say and honestly it creeped me out to an extent. My other friends eventually called him on it when he was telling one of my stories when I was not present. "You didnt do that! that was AAJ." said one of my close friends who was actually there for the original incident. I eventually stopped hanging out with this kid (long story but I actually saved his life once) and he eventually grew to hate me and tell others in our circle (who knew he was lying) why he didn't hang out with me because I was fake, a loser, whatever. In retrospect, I realize this kid while having a total Alpha father whom he rarely saw, he was a product of a female household and his behavior reflected this.

Someone mentioned what to do with these types. Obviously everyone knows how Above Average Joe rolls, I will call them out on their BS. This personality type will NEVER admit to being caught in a lie, and will merely move into another social group until the same thing happens and they rinse and repeat. These people never have life long friends. I have dated many women who have this personality trait It usually amuses me. In men however, I will not tolerate it as it is a subtle form of AMOG'ing and these liars begin with small white lies and end with huge whoppers, waiting for you to call them out. Every lie you pretend to swallow is a point for them, a small victory, and in their mind they think you are stupid, don't have the cojones to call them, and that they are superior to you. These type of males are toxic in any organization and should be avoided and routed out at any and every opportunity.
05-30-2016 09:54 AM
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Post: #42
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
I know a guy who's a compulsive liar. I talked about him on an earlier thread, sure wish I could find the post. He's totally crazy and a social parasite but he's catnip to women and slays pussy like a lot of guys here wouldn't understand. You have to see it in action.

Just listen, shoot the shit, and disbelieve. Maybe spin a couple tall tales and yarns at him and see if they even have a bullshit detector. Tell him all about your interesting friend who was a Nasa Test Pilot.

Sometimes a compulsive liar can be the best wingman you ever had for the price of a few cheap beers.

Sometime a compulsive liar might be the only guy who picks up the phone at 330 AM and pulls your truck out of the ditch.

If you can tolerate a liar and he doesn't convince you he's for real, maybe he can be useful to you.

Some of these chronic liars have masculine virtues, my buddy does, but chronic dishonesty is their eternal vice.

A compulsive liar is unfixable, his brain is totally fucked and he has a warped view of reality. He probably believes his own bullshit.

Just see if they've ever really fucked anybody close to them in the past and if they hadn't, they're probably harmless and aren't likely to screw you over. Relationships with skeevy fuckers HAVE to be give and take. He MUST provide you something and you likewise GIVE back in return. The onus is on him though. If he breaks that transaction rule fucking get him out of your life, he's toxic. Ghost forever.

Edit: I mean fucked people over like they've got a bad habit of crashing family vehicles into overpasses and not paying them back, slinging dope to middle schoolers, assault charges, hopelessly addicted to drugs, not minor things.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2016 11:30 AM by Hades.)
05-30-2016 11:17 AM
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Post: #43
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
Worth noting that the Scott Pilgrim comics and film are pretty different. The first parts of both is identical almost line for line, but the plot pretty quickly diverges. What's not really made clear in the film is that Scott only succeeds once he's able to swallow a bitter pill and accept that he's been a useless, narcissistic asshole up to that point in the books...and not really any better than the people he's been fighting with.
05-30-2016 02:22 PM
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Post: #44
RE: How do you deal with a compulsive liar?
(05-28-2016 06:25 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  Out lie him. It has the double effect of ridiculing and getting them out of your life, which is what the ultimate goal.

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05-30-2016 06:09 PM
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