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TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
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TravelerKai Away
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Post: #126
RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
They took the headgear off boxing this year. There are article with rumors they will add it. In 4 years the UFC and others could help promote it's acceptance.

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1 John 4:20 - If anyone says, I love God, and hates (detests, abominates) his brother [in Christ], he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, Whom he has not seen.
08-09-2016 07:47 PM
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TravelerKai Away
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
Also just to clarify something so not to scare others. Doing Judo/BJJ or any other full contact martial art for 0-5 years won't make you broke up like me and Mikan. If you do it hardcore with MMA or become a lifer, you need to take precautions for long term injuries and difficulties. It's no different than college and pro football, hockey, and high level basketball and soccer. All those guys have issues day to day as well. Anytime I meet one, it's amazing what challenges we share.

Anyway, full contact martial arts can give you plenty of value with 0-5 years study. You won't forget what you were taught after 1 year of study. 6 months is too short. You won't destroy your body of have alot of injuries if you do not go past 5 years. The older you are when you start, the more likely, but if you are young, it won't likely make a difference at all.

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1 John 4:20 - If anyone says, I love God, and hates (detests, abominates) his brother [in Christ], he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, Whom he has not seen.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2016 07:53 PM by TravelerKai.)
08-09-2016 07:52 PM
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Post: #128
RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
(08-08-2016 09:37 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 09:04 AM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 10:35 PM)Atticus Wrote:  I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted. Damn, gives me a whole new level of respect for BJJ:

Bet he got laid like a boss afterwards.

"The Russian vice-consul in Rio de Janeiro dramatically shot dead an armed mugger who had tried to hold him up in his car - just after the Olympic torch relay had passed by on the last day before the Rio 2016 opening ceremony.
Marcos Cesar Feres Braga, a Brazilian lawyer who holds the vice-consul post at the Russian consulate, reportedly grabbed the attacker and pulled him into his BMW X6 after he had smashed the car window and pointed a gun at him, demanding he hand over his watch.
A struggle ensued inside the diplomat's car until he managed to grab the assailant's gun, which he used to shoot him dead at point blank range, according to police.
Mr Braga is trained in jiu-jitsu and was travelling with his wife and daughter at the time, local media outlet Globo reported."

link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-dead.html
Tight and awkward spaces, the introudction of odd objects etc. are actually more often than not the chink in the armour of martial arts. Size, strength, youth and luck are arguably more important.

For example if a 5'8 judo olympic champion were to be working the counter in a store and grabbed by a 6'5 bodybuilder over the counter, he would not have an answer to that situation and even a boxer of same size would be in a very difficult situation.

Movies and martial arts courses lead us to think that violent confrontations take place on a flat surface with ample space and no hazardous objects or obstacles lying around.

Quote:Tight and awkward spaces, the introudction of odd objects etc. are actually more often than not the chink in the armour of martial arts. Size, strength, youth and luck are arguably more important.

What a load of garbage this is. If your training or style accommodates environmental issues, this is a non-issue. Power is number 1 for sure. Technique is number 2. A person with very low to no technique, is still at a disadvantage if the opponent has far superior technique. Most men in the world are not the size of The Mountain. If a man is around 200 pounds, they are within reason to be able to defend against almost any opponent.

Luck really has no business being in a discussion about fighting. How often do you ever hear that world during a MMA fight? When both guys dazed are throwing haymakers and the last 10 seconds of the match maybe? In self defense situations, if you even have to factor in something un-quantifiable such as luck, you are not prepared well enough to begin with. You simply did not care enough about your own personal well being to prepare yourself for a potential attack on your life. As a result your risk (calculated or not) will be rendered unto you. You will get what you deserve. Garbage in, garbage out.

Quote:For example if a 5'8 judo olympic champion were to be working the counter in a store and grabbed by a 6'5 bodybuilder over the counter, he would not have an answer to that situation and even a boxer of same size would be in a very difficult situation.

Pure hogwash again. Anyone at that level of Judo would throw or sweep anyone not versed in Judo. How are you going to out grab a world class athlete that makes a living grabbing and throwing others. This is how I know you have no clue what you are talking about. There is no way you ever went a round with one or even a NCAA Div 1 Wrestling champion. It's not about pure or raw strength. It's about position and leverage.

No Judoka at that level would get grabbed behind a counter like that and if they did, they would 100% for certain leap the counter to go in the direction of that guy and sweep or throw him. I once threw an Army Ranger that same exact size because he could not believe that I could teach him anything. I asked him to come at me and he got thrown bouncing his head on the mat in the process because he had not learned how to fall correctly yet. I could have transitioned him in an arm bar and broke his arm, if it were on the street, but this was a practice, his fellow Rangers asked him to attend. He became a good student after that, because he realized not everything was about being bigger than the other guy.

Of course a boxer would be in a difficult position if grabbed by someone very large. They train with similar sized opponents. A Judo practice class (just like BJJ) by comparison is composed of all sizes. Boxers do not train to punch pressure points, vital points, eye gouges, throat strikes, temple strikes, nor small joint manipulation(SMJ). They also do not use harder body parts to even odds like Kickboxers would use an elbow strike or lead the counter for a knee strike. Everyone know boxing is primarily a sport with strict rules and confines, you are not telling anyone something we did not already know.

Quote:Movies and martial arts courses lead us to think that violent confrontations take place on a flat surface with ample space and no hazardous objects or obstacles lying around.

More incorrect conjecture from someone with no experience in such matters. Japanese Ju Jutsu and two handfuls of different martial arts teach the dangers of the environment and how to deal with it. Movies has no real bearing on self defense on the street. A movie like Jason Borne using Pencak Silat is still a movie at the end of the day and at best is a minor example of what a person can do in a tiny bathroom fighting for his life.

Finally this thread is not a place to discuss whether or not martial arts are real or not. This thread is not about Sports vs Traditional either like I told Rocha repeatedly. Take all that trash back to your thread. This thread is to discuss martial arts options and training. Trying to troll this thread with no real experience in professional fighting or street
fighting, as if you are some authority on the matter, is very disingenuous. The last thing I would do as a person with my experience is listen to some person who has never disarmed a real attacker in self defense (like I have), tell me what I train is fake.

Gtfo

Troll

You did not have to go into a lengthy hostile rant simply because I pointed out a deficiency in the reasoning of another poster. If you do not want to argue, then just leave it but you cannot legitimately appeal to your own internet authority either.

Unless he has supernatural powers, a guy of any size is not going to make a heavy tall obstacle disappear and the presence of such an obstacle will render it completely impossible to generate leverage for any kind of throw or bum rush the guy to the ground unless he's literally the size of an elephant and can simply tear his way through the obstacle. The world's strongest man might be able to lift and toss a guy by his lapels from a distance but even he would struggle.

I do not know why some martial arts guys need to live in their alternate reality when other sports hobbyists apparently do not. Would a golf athlete claim that he can hit a hole in one in the dark with a tennis racquet? Would a football goalkeeper claim that he can catch a tennis ball shot out from a machine? I do not think they would because for some unknown reason they are not so invested in their sport that they need to start living in their own reality where their hobby transcends all manners of worlds and challenges. They seem to be content knowing that they do well in the specific arena of their respective sport.
It's almost as if some martial arts dudes are so insecure or embarrassed about the fact that they are training how to punch or throw people day in day out that they need to rationalize their hobby by explaining how life is a Steven Seagal movie.

Sorry if I've derailed this thread and I do not doubt that the OP knows a thing or two about various things. I simply do not buy into all of the reasoning exhibited by some people around these corners.
08-10-2016 02:34 PM
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Ringo Offline
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
(08-09-2016 07:52 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Also just to clarify something so not to scare others. Doing Judo/BJJ or any other full contact martial art for 0-5 years won't make you broke up like me and Mikan. If you do it hardcore with MMA or become a lifer, you need to take precautions for long term injuries and difficulties. It's no different than college and pro football, hockey, and high level basketball and soccer. All those guys have issues day to day as well. Anytime I meet one, it's amazing what challenges we share.
What do you recommend as injury prevention? I'm a young man with 3 years total (1,5 judo, 1,5 BJJ) but I can't see myself stopping any time soon - the earlier we work on preventing injuries the better.

I try to mix it up by stretching and doing mobility drills 3-4x/week for 10-20min after class; stretching, mobility, ginastica natural/flow/animal movement stuff 1x/week 30-60min; plus 3x/week strength training in the gym.

I really like this routine but I'm always interested in your thoughts.

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08-10-2016 04:01 PM
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TravelerKai Away
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
(08-10-2016 02:34 PM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  Sorry if I've derailed this thread and I do not doubt that the OP knows a thing or two about various things. I simply do not buy into all of the reasoning exhibited by some people around these corners.

No you are not sorry, stop trolling and leave the thread. We are not going to debate if martial arts is real in here.

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1 John 4:20 - If anyone says, I love God, and hates (detests, abominates) his brother [in Christ], he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, Whom he has not seen.
08-10-2016 04:16 PM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
(08-10-2016 04:01 PM)Ringo Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 07:52 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Also just to clarify something so not to scare others. Doing Judo/BJJ or any other full contact martial art for 0-5 years won't make you broke up like me and Mikan. If you do it hardcore with MMA or become a lifer, you need to take precautions for long term injuries and difficulties. It's no different than college and pro football, hockey, and high level basketball and soccer. All those guys have issues day to day as well. Anytime I meet one, it's amazing what challenges we share.
What do you recommend as injury prevention? I'm a young man with 3 years total (1,5 judo, 1,5 BJJ) but I can't see myself stopping any time soon - the earlier we work on preventing injuries the better.

I try to mix it up by stretching and doing mobility drills 3-4x/week for 10-20min after class; stretching, mobility, ginastica natural/flow/animal movement stuff 1x/week 30-60min; plus 3x/week strength training in the gym.

I really like this routine but I'm always interested in your thoughts.

When I was your age, I wish we knew about whole body stretches like the pros nowadays use.

So far your routine is great.

Here is what I would add: (If you already do this, then keep on going.)

1. Occasionally mix in swimming to enhance cardio without impacting joints much. Learn the power of kettlebells.

2. Get serious about healing and rotate in a heal week. Amino Acids + MSM/Chondroitin + magnesium + Zinc + Calcium + Omega Fish Oil (high quality stuff like Kirklands). Watch others practice.

3. Only use ice if you are swollen from a small injury. Only use heat very judiciously for very short periods of time.

4. Mix in a Yoga class once a month. Get some phone numbers from the ladies... Wink (Spin classes are good too)

5. Throw ropes and do box jumps if you do not already. This does not avoid damage but what it does is helps you get functional strength so that you do not look to heavy weights or more fighting to gain it. (make sense?)

6. Create an attitude towards Training Camp, instead of indefinite non-stop training. You decide how many weeks, but you train very hard during that time and outside of that time, you take a break and heal. If your fight or grappling tournament weight is 155lbs for example, walk around 160-180 outside of camp and do not feel bad about not working out. Training like a pro can help you last longer because we would not train like a regular guy and last long in the first place. (Think about Tiger Woods. He trained like a madman Navy Seal and ruined his body at an early age, golf wise)

7. Get semi-regular sports massages and acupuncture, to avoid muscle spasms.

8. Limit the amount of time you spend rolling with white belts. White belts can injury you far more easily than advanced belts because they are overly eager to win because they know very little technique.

9. Don't mix weight training on days with practice or sparring.

10. Spend more time studying film of opponents, tournaments, and favorite practitioners. Become a student of the game itself. Film room time always pays off. When you know them better than you know yourself, you will always have an edge. Film practices of teammates rolling, if they are okay with it. You could even study your own films together (what I used to do with mine). Some things you can only learn while not being underneath another dude's chest.

Hope that helps or makes sense. If not, let me know. I did not do all of these things myself, just most of them. If I had that much sense in my 20s, I would not have been in the shape I was in when I hit 28-30. Hopefully none of you will make the same mistakes I made.

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(This post was last modified: 08-10-2016 04:41 PM by TravelerKai.)
08-10-2016 04:39 PM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
(08-09-2016 07:52 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Also just to clarify something so not to scare others. Doing Judo/BJJ or any other full contact martial art for 0-5 years won't make you broke up like me and Mikan.

I wasn't very smart about healing when I was young. I started at 10 years old first 2 then by 16, 4 days per week, probably 20 hours+ per week. I did hard randori with injuries, I didn't seek any medical attention for bone fractures and even a clear break that have significantly reduced by health quality at 40. I have nerve damage in my ankle from a bad sprain when I just took some advil and ran back to the mat. I was 19 years old, I felt invincible. Never got treated, not even ice. In an exhibition match when I was still a purple belt (a junior rank) at 14, a nidan 8 years older then me, when going for a grab where the lower lapels of the gi cross, punched me so hard in the torso is broke my xiphoid process. To this day the skin there is discolored. Fortunately it broke outward so it didn't touch my lungs. I've been dropped on my head via seoi nage multiple times, knocked out this way once. I've been choked out multiple times.

I learned later that my first dojo had a reputation for brutality that these days wouldn't really be tolerated. The other schools have since stopped inviting him to competitions, effectively ending his career in Judo. He was also a nidan in Shotokan and I hear teaches that to mostly kids now, very non-contact low fitness sorta McDojoish. Gotta keep the lights on I suppose. We don't keep up. He also fell into the trend of mixing MA with Evangelical Christianity.

Long story short, get attention to injuries. Don't randori if you've been knocked out in the last 24 hours. Get xrays, go to the doctor and pay attention to your body. Much of what happened to me could have been mitigated if I knew better. It was the 80s, people still believed martial arts were mysterious. The next closest dojo was 35 miles away and run by a former classmate of my instructor when they were first earning their dan rank. We have the internet now, its exposed a great deal of bullshit in MA, but its also an incredible trove of best practices for a healthful life of martial arts.

If you remember nothing else from this post, if something hurts for more than a week, get an xray.
08-10-2016 08:57 PM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
Excellent post Mikan. Your post reminds me of some dumb things I did as well. I once broke the upper part of my forearm on some bricks but only went in for xrays 2 or 3 weeks later. When they showed me my broken arm on the xray it felt insulting. I had some Vegeta-like arrogant complex as if they could be wrong. I not only ripped off the cast but I kept on training nearly everyday. Looking back at that, that was tremendously stupid. Took well over 10 weeks to heal. It might even be a little crooked for all I know. That poor attitude got me into trouble in more areas than physical, since I even ignored physical issues. Never forget why you trained in Martial Arts initially.

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1 John 4:20 - If anyone says, I love God, and hates (detests, abominates) his brother [in Christ], he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, Whom he has not seen.
08-11-2016 07:42 AM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
Thanks for the thoughtful reply and great thread. +1.

I already do plenty of what you mentioned (not mixing lifting and sparring, peaking, taking short breaks). The 30-60min stretching and flow sessions also include yoga - I do them at the park and try to get some approaches in afterwards, so I guess I'm on the right track lol.

I could definitely use the fish oil and more careful review of my own training footage - I love seeing matches on YouTube but I haven't watched myself spar more than a couple of times.

Not sure if you posted about this before, but could you elaborate on your recommendation of S&C? Curious how you incorporate ropes and kettlebells.

I've posted about Steve Maxwell a few times before. I'm really into his stuff - slower tempo and bodyweight exercises, a lot of mobility work, KBs. He focuses on longevity and movement.

I'm a tall, lanky, generally weak guy so for now I'm focusing on strength. I try to keep it very simple, 3x/week, few exercises:
(08-05-2016 11:29 AM)Ringo Wrote:  I lift 3x/week and do BJJ 3x/week. Only 3 sets of RPT weighted pullups/RPT press/20-rep light squats or 100 pushups/RPT heavy rows/20-rep light squats, with some curls and triceps extensions 1x/week. All my lifts went way up, bodyweight increased a bit and I feel and look better overall.

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08-11-2016 10:24 AM
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Post: #135
RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
TravelerKai,

What is your opinion of bujinkan and other supposed "ninja" schools of martial arts? There seems to be a lot of fakes and bullshit in this arena.
08-11-2016 08:55 PM
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Seems to be nearly 90% bullshit. I'm no expert (4-5 years of tournament style TKD under my belt) but all the "ninja" schools in USA that I've seen are clearly just teaching bastardized Shotokan + gimmicky gymnastics shit.

Some of those moves may have been important 500 years ago in Japan, but the context is lost.

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08-11-2016 08:59 PM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
@ Forever_beta and @Fortis

Bujinkan and 95% of "ninjutsu" schools are pure garbage. Let me repeat that again...pure garbage.

During the 1970's Japanese ninjutsu schools were majority known as "Ninpo Taijutsu". This encompassed a large majority of what TravelerKai describes as Japanese Jui-jitsu. Some of them even changed the name because of various interpersonal/interclan issues.

At some point in the mid 1970's a guy name Stephen Hayes gained popularity for being one of the 1st westerners to study ninjutsu directly from Hatsumi (the last real ninja).

At this point some of the other extremely traditional schools distanced themselves from Hatsumi and his openness to train foreigners. Eventually he conceded to not train foreigners in the more extreme aspects because of the martial art. When they started to teach westerners from Europe and America they taught them significantly watered down techniques.
This was such a big deal certain sensei and schools broke away from the main branch and went silent or left japan altogether.

Most of the information about ninjutsu/bujinkan found on the internet and wikipedia is about 25% correct with very large omissions.
It's been so watered down and commercialized to the point that it's quite expensive to train in japan for what amounts to basically nothing. You'll be training with people like yourself interested in learning from the grandmaster Hatsumi.
The reality is:
  • he's in his 80's and hasn't actively trained students since his early 70's.
  • Most of the people in the class are probably shittier than you and their movement will reflect this.
  • The classes are extremely crowded, so ideal training isn't realistic.

When i visited japan some years back i went to train at Hatsumi's dojo, i was floored by how bad some the people were. When i began to train, one of the senior people at the dojo asked me who trained me and if i had ever trained in japan before. I explained who my sensei was etc.
He complimented me on my technique and said that he can see my sensei in how i moved etc. At which point the rest of the class looked at me and basically watched me for the next 10 minutes.

My original sensei left japan in the 1970's.
I was extremely fortunate with the training i received and i didn't understand this till i visited a Bujinkan dojo, and then even more so once i visited japan.
All of the above information are things hes told me over the years before he passed a few years ago.

I hope this clears things up for you guys.

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(This post was last modified: 08-12-2016 01:03 AM by kinjutsu.)
08-12-2016 12:59 AM
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Post: #138
RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
(08-11-2016 10:24 AM)Ringo Wrote:  Thanks for the thoughtful reply and great thread. +1.

I already do plenty of what you mentioned (not mixing lifting and sparring, peaking, taking short breaks). The 30-60min stretching and flow sessions also include yoga - I do them at the park and try to get some approaches in afterwards, so I guess I'm on the right track lol.

I could definitely use the fish oil and more careful review of my own training footage - I love seeing matches on YouTube but I haven't watched myself spar more than a couple of times.

Not sure if you posted about this before, but could you elaborate on your recommendation of S&C? Curious how you incorporate ropes and kettlebells.

I've posted about Steve Maxwell a few times before. I'm really into his stuff - slower tempo and bodyweight exercises, a lot of mobility work, KBs. He focuses on longevity and movement.

I'm a tall, lanky, generally weak guy so for now I'm focusing on strength. I try to keep it very simple, 3x/week, few exercises:
(08-05-2016 11:29 AM)Ringo Wrote:  I lift 3x/week and do BJJ 3x/week. Only 3 sets of RPT weighted pullups/RPT press/20-rep light squats or 100 pushups/RPT heavy rows/20-rep light squats, with some curls and triceps extensions 1x/week. All my lifts went way up, bodyweight increased a bit and I feel and look better overall.

Strength and Conditioning is a REALLY big topic. You could easily write a datasheet 10X longer than mine just to cover the basics. There is a reason why guys watch dudes like Elliot Hulse, etc. on Youtube and these guys have 100K+ subscribers.

Fortunately, for BJJ it can be broken down into smaller parts.

1. Neck

2. Core

3. Legs

4. Wrists/hands/forearms

5. Back

Those are the areas of concentration you are going to want above average strength in.

The neck, core, back, and leg exercises will help you bridge faster and get heavier guys off you from a mount. You have to be able to "explode" and push off into transitions. This will be key for you to master to get from Purple to Brown belt.

As for which methods are best, I honestly do not have a huge opinion on. Weight training or without doesn't matter. Olympic sets and pyramids are both good, in my opinion. I never had a preference and I did everything from bench press and squats, to pushups and good ol fashioned horse stance with buckets. I mixed it up to avoid getting bored or frustrated.

Kettlebells in my opinion should be damn near mandatory for BJJ guys. I did not get better from purple -> black until I started fucking with them. Your pull and yank strength will go way up. You will work muscles you do not work as often.

Put it this way. When you are strong enough that you can pull a guy's hands off your gi with 3 fingers instead of your entire hand, you save ALOT of energy. Doing big strategic moves, with minimal movement requirements, is very advanced stuff.

Energy saving is a huge deal in BJJ when you get to higher belt levels. Unless you are in a tournament, you will not be rolling with dudes your exact weight. So to get better you almost have to get serious about S&C workout sets, so that you can get access to higher instruction from your teacher as well as belt rank.

Dating Guide for Mainland China Datasheet
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1 John 4:20 - If anyone says, I love God, and hates (detests, abominates) his brother [in Christ], he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, Whom he has not seen.
08-12-2016 08:55 AM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
From the book Flashing Steel:

Quote:This, Musahi felt, was the ulimate goal of training, to be so highly skilled and mentally developed that your mere presence was intimidation and no man would dare challenge you.

It fit more here then in the various self defence tools topics. No martial art, no weapon or tool create a superior benefit when you don't have the mindset. Of course to pull the trigger of a gun you don't need to have a warrior spirit. All the training should not be there for just defend yourself, it should make you a wiser man and noble your character. When you are truly skilled you have the situation awareness to avoid certain situations. And you have the mindset to don't get carried away out of emotion or to test yourself. There is a fitting quote from Arnold Schwarzenegger as well, when you drive an BMW you want to proof everyone how fast your car can go but when you drive a Porsche, you know you can go fast if you want and don't need to do it.

Noble your character and be honest to yourself. Some of the older guys told it, when they had be to proud to hold back or rest properly to cure injuries. Or other guys go into fights to test how good they are. This level is not the end of the journey. You can't avoid any fights or battles in life but you should be the one that chose what fights and battles you pick to complete your journey.

We will stand tall in the sunshine
With the truth upon our side
And if we have to go alone
We'll go alone with pride


For us, these conflicts can be resolved by appeal to the deeply ingrained higher principle embodied in the law, that individuals have the right (within defined limits) to choose how to live. But this Western notion of individualism and tolerance is by no means a conception in all cultures. - Theodore Dalrymple
08-13-2016 05:19 AM
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(08-13-2016 05:19 AM)Parzival Wrote:  From the book Flashing Steel:

Quote:This, Musahi felt, was the ulimate goal of training, to be so highly skilled and mentally developed that your mere presence was intimidation and no man would dare challenge you.

It fit more here then in the various self defence tools topics. No martial art, no weapon or tool create a superior benefit when you don't have the mindset. Of course to pull the trigger of a gun you don't need to have a warrior spirit. All the training should not be there for just defend yourself, it should make you a wiser man and noble your character. When you are truly skilled you have the situation awareness to avoid certain situations. And you have the mindset to don't get carried away out of emotion or to test yourself. There is a fitting quote from Arnold Schwarzenegger as well, when you drive an BMW you want to proof everyone how fast your car can go but when you drive a Porsche, you know you can go fast if you want and don't need to do it.

Noble your character and be honest to yourself. Some of the older guys told it, when they had be to proud to hold back or rest properly to cure injuries. Or other guys go into fights to test how good they are. This level is not the end of the journey. You can't avoid any fights or battles in life but you should be the one that chose what fights and battles you pick to complete your journey.

The book of 5 rings is great for people who want the spiritual side of martial arts.
Before eastern martial arts became westernized stuff like this is what it was about. If you are able to find a school that has similar values to these the head instructor is the type of person you want to study under.

Anyone can teach you how to seriously injure an attacker...some even encourage it. However, how many people are truly prepared to take a life in self-defense? To deal with the emotional gravity of taking a life with their bare hands? I believe a lot of the ritual in eastern MA was preparation for this.

A funny side story...
A guy I've known for a while recently jokingly complained to me that in his 17yrs of training hes never been in a street fight or otherwise needed to defend himself. Our sensei overhead this and said "that's because being aware of your surroundings and avoiding a bad situation will always be the ideal. The training is there when the bad situation finds you"

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08-14-2016 11:52 AM
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I've always gotten a kick out of the ninja stuff. The biggest danger has always seemed to be a student taking it too seriously and trying to fight when they should have run. If people want to pay money for Japanese themed LARPing, more power to them.

I visited Tokyo in the 90's as part of a package tour. We visited the Kodokan, attended a tournament and watched some exhibition matches etc. When I was young I thought there might be something to this secret ninja stuff. One of the Japanese guys at the Kodokan with good English explained to me that the actual Ninja clans not only were super secretive, but deliberately spread misinformation about themselves to both hide their organization and to take advantage of feudal era superstitions to increase the fear the public had of them. So we are already starting with a group (2 groups really, the Iga and Koga) who when they existed had a vested interest in concealing and misleading. Then, with the rise of the shogunate, the Tokugawa shoguns did everything they could to wipe them out. A handful survived by swearing allegiance to the shogun and working as a security service during the bakufu period. These surviving ninja largely abandoned the old battlefield techniques in favor of counter espionage and law enforcement as they now served as a sort of secret police for the shogun, the old clans having been wiped out. Over time they simply became part of the apparatus of the government, the old clan based transmission of the original teachings being lost to the ages.

Added to this is the Koryū(pre-Meiji martial arts) scholarship in modern Japan. The Japanese value their history highly; if someone were to produce verifiable documents or evidence for these lost teachings it would be a Big Deal in Koryū scholarship. In fact it might be the largest find in Koryū scholarship in a century. From what I understand there are two accepted Koryū related to traditional Ninja teachings, one concerned with blocking and dodging and the other with sword techniques, but even these have sparse documentation when compared to the samurai derived arts. Most of what does survive from the pre-shogunate era does so because it continued to be taught to the warrior caste right up until the Meiji restoration in more or less formal transmission of technique either within samurai families or in private schools where samurai from various clans to pay for instruction, both of which produced documentation and verifiable transmission of unbroken leadership of many of these schools to present day. Ninjistu has nothing like this.

Added to this is the incredible marketing power produced by the ninja craze in movies and television both outside and inside Japan starting in the 70s. The money to be made (and egos to be inflated) was just too tempting. Fakers proliferated and "traditional" styles were invented after whole cloth. Anyone trying to actually preserve the very few verifiable ninja traditions has a tough plot to hoe due to all the BS polluting the perception of their arts.

In modern times there is quite a bit of history and artifacts preserved at the Iga-ryu museum in Iga. The administration of the museum treat ninjitsu largely as a subject of historical and scholarly interest and are some of the most strident critics of modern ninjitsu.

In my opinion, the group with the best claim to being modern ninja are these guys.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Fo...up_(Japan)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Assault_Team
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2016 03:10 PM by Mikan.)
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Exit the Dragon? Kung Fu, Once Central to Hong Kong Life, Is Waning

Quote:HONG KONG — Bruce Lee was 14 years old, and on the losing end of several street fights with local gang members, when he took up kung fu.

It was 1955, and Hong Kong was bustling with schools teaching a range of kung fu styles, including close-combat techniques and a method using a daunting weapon known as the nine-dragon trident.

Mr. Lee’s decision paid off. After perfecting moves like his one-inch punch and leaping kick under the tutelage of a grand master, he became an international star, introducing kung fu to the world in films like “Enter the Dragon” in 1973.

Decades later, cue the dragon’s exit.

The kung fu culture that Mr. Lee helped popularize — and that gave the city a gritty, exotic image in the eyes of foreigners — is in decline. Hong Kong’s streets are safer, with fewer murders by the fierce crime organizations known as triads that figured in so many kung fu films. And its real estate is among the world’s most expensive, making it difficult for training studios to afford soaring rents.

Gone are the days when “kung fu was a big part of people’s cultural and leisure life,” said Mak King Sang Ricardo, the author of a history of martial arts in Hong Kong. “After work, people would go to martial arts schools, where they’d cook dinner together and practice kung fu until 11 at night.”

With a shift in martial arts preferences, the rise of video games — more teenagers play Pokémon Go in parks here than practice a roundhouse kick — and a perception among young people that kung fu just isn’t cool, longtime martial artists worry that kung fu’s future is bleak.


“When I was growing up so many people learned kung fu, but that’s no longer the case,” said Leung Ting, 69, who has been teaching wing chun, a close-combat technique, for 50 years. “Sadly, I think Chinese martial arts are more popular overseas than in their home now.”

According to Mr. Leung’s organization, the International WingTsun Association, former apprentices have opened 4,000 branches in more than 65 countries, but only five in Hong Kong.

Few kung fu schools remain in Yau Ma Tei, a district of Kowloon that was once the center for martial arts. Nathan Road — where the young Bruce Lee learned his craft from Ip Man (often spelled Yip Man), the legendary teacher who was the subject of Wong Kar-wai’s 2013 film “The Grandmaster” — is now lined with cosmetic shops and pharmacies that cater to tourists from the mainland.

Though he lives in Yau Ma Tei, Tony Choi, a recent college graduate, has never been tempted to check out the remaining schools. Mr. Choi, 22, said that “kung fu just never came to mind.”

He added, “Kung fu is more for retired uncles and grandpas.”

When they do train in martial arts, younger people here tend to pick Thai boxing and judo.

Valerie Ng, a 20-year-old college student, says she prefers Thai boxing because it is “attractive and charming” and does not take as long to master. She noted that kung fu masters often do not have defined muscles and that some of them look, well, a little chubby.

“You can see how fierce Thai boxing is from watching professional matches,” she said. “But I rarely see such competition for kung fu, which makes me wonder whether those kung fu masters really are good at fighting or they just claim to be,” she said.


So Tak Chung, 59, remembers how different things were. When he was a boy, he and his friends would run home from school as fast as they could to watch kung fu shows on television.

“Kung fu always gave me a sense of justice and pride in being Chinese,” Mr. So said while stretching his legs for a Sunday night lesson at Kowloon Park. “It feels like if you knew kung fu, you could beat the bad guys and help the needy.”

Mr. So’s master, Mak Che Kong, 64, is less hopeful about the future. He ran one of the last studios in Kowloon in the 1980s, but soaring rents caused it to shut down, along with other family businesses that were once a fixture of Hong Kong street life, like Dit Da, or bone-setting, shops that use traditional Chinese medicine to treat sprains and fractures.

Mr. Mak, who is not related to the author of the martial arts history, has fewer than 20 students now, down from twice that number several years ago. Most students are over the age of 40.

He holds classes all over the city because “students will not come if they need to travel much.” On Tuesdays, he teaches at a pier in the city’s Central District; on Wednesdays, near a government marriage registry in Sha Tin in the New Territories; and on Sundays, at a public park in Kowloon. On Mondays and Fridays, he teaches at a kung fu school in a warehouse opened by one of his students.

Describing himself as “old school,” Mr. Mak fiercely defended kung fu traditions. “Chinese kung fu is not about fighting; it is about patience and hard work,” he said.

When he learned kung fu in the late 1960s, masters were father figures and apprentices had deep respect for kung fu. Students were willing to spend months or years perfecting just their horse-riding stance, a rest position often used for practicing punches and strengthening the legs and back.

“Today, if you ask a student to practice horse-riding stance for one lesson, he will not come again,” Mr. Mak said. “They are used to living a comfortable life.”


In English, kung fu is often used as an umbrella term for all Chinese martial arts. But in Chinese, it refers to any discipline or skill that is achieved through hard work.

Kung fu traces its history to ancient China, with hundreds of fighting styles developing over the centuries. But it soared in popularity at the beginning of the 20th century, as revolution swept the nation.

After the fall of the Qing dynasty a century ago, the Chinese Nationalist party, or the Kuomintang, used martial arts to promote national pride, setting up competitions and sending an exhibition team to the Olympics. But the government also tried to suppress wuxia, a martial arts genre of literature and film, as superstitious and potentially subversive.

When the Nationalists fell in 1949, the new Communist government in Beijing sought to control martial arts from the Chinese mainland. The Shaolin Temple, said to be the home of Asian martial arts in central China, was ransacked during the Cultural Revolution of 1966-76 and its Buddhist monks jailed.

Throughout those decades, martial artists from mainland China sought refuge in what was then the British colony of Hong Kong.

By the 1970s, kung fu fever had spread around the world. In addition to Bruce Lee’s films, the television series “Kung Fu,” starring David Carradine, became one of the most popular programs in the United States.

Though Hong Kong’s kung fu films do not draw the attention they once did, the genre has influenced a generation of directors, including Quentin Tarantino and Ang Lee, and the actor Jackie Chan and others have kept it alive as comedy.

In a twist, kung fu has enjoyed a renaissance in mainland China, where the government has standardized it and promoted it in secondary schools as a sport known as wushu to foster national pride.

As the martial arts center of gravity shifts to the mainland, some in Hong Kong have expressed hope that the government might support a revival here, too. Others are trying to carry on the tradition themselves.

Li Zhuangxin, a trim 17-year-old, has been studying the wing chun technique for more than four years. He was inspired by his grandfather, a devotee of the fighting style hung ga who gave Mr. Li his first kung fu lesson at age 8.

He hopes to open his own kung fu school one day — maybe on the mainland, where interest is higher and rents are cheaper — and has already set up a small wing chun club, with eight members, at his high school.

Few of his classmates had ever heard of wing chun before. Mr. Li, undaunted, says he wants to impart “the concentration and determination of kung fu” to his friends, who he laments are “only interested in playing with their cellphones.”
08-26-2016 08:32 PM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
It isn't just HK. Young people in the mainland do not give a shit about wushu/gongfu either. They think it is corny or they are too busy trying to survive, which you cannot blame them. Hopefully it will get better and more will keep it alive.

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08-26-2016 09:26 PM
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I moved to a new place so I can't continue my boxing. I just did about 1.5 years boxing and still a beginner. Now there is the question if I go back to a club for boxing or do Ju Jitsu. I'm between those because I want to widen my field to more self defence then just boxing. I like boxing a lot. Especially the direct approach of it, sparring, reaction and so on but it lack a lot of stuff what I can use in wider self defence situation.

Of course nobody here can take the decision away from me and I will check both. Just want to rise my toughs on it. Maybe even both. Will check it out.

We will stand tall in the sunshine
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For us, these conflicts can be resolved by appeal to the deeply ingrained higher principle embodied in the law, that individuals have the right (within defined limits) to choose how to live. But this Western notion of individualism and tolerance is by no means a conception in all cultures. - Theodore Dalrymple
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2016 03:31 PM by Parzival.)
10-26-2016 03:13 PM
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If I were you, I'd probably stick to boxing.

I base that mostly on how BJJ and the training stresses your joints and should you spar with a newbie the chance of you getting injured goes up rather greatly due to your partner not knowing where to stop when you allow them to practice moves during a live roll.

That said my boxing is amateur and I'm unsure the possible risks associated with that while I'm quite familiar with most in the grappling realms.

Not to mention you can always hit the bag while trying to roll with a sandbag will feel funny. Banana
10-26-2016 05:00 PM
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(10-26-2016 03:13 PM)Parzival Wrote:  I moved to a new place so I can't continue my boxing. I just did about 1.5 years boxing and still a beginner. Now there is the question if I go back to a club for boxing or do Ju Jitsu. I'm between those because I want to widen my field to more self defence then just boxing. I like boxing a lot. Especially the direct approach of it, sparring, reaction and so on but it lack a lot of stuff what I can use in wider self defence situation.

Of course nobody here can take the decision away from me and I will check both. Just want to rise my toughs on it. Maybe even both. Will check it out.

If you want more self defense skills go the Ju Jitsu route. Due to the way you spelled it, I am assuming you meant Japanese JuJitsu and not Brazilian JiuJitsu. BJJ is not for street defense. On the street it is about as useful as boxing is, for reasons discussed several times before.

If you want to take a shortcut with BJJ, take Judo classes at the same time or go to a Judo place and just learn Judo. Judo is BJJ, except Judo focuses on throws and sweeps more but has almost every submission, and BJJ focuses on the ground more but only has a few sweeps and throws. Japanese Ju Jitsu has all the Judo moves in it. Judo is more useful for street defense because you do not want to go down to the ground for no good reason, especially if there are multiple opponents.

With Judo you can toss and sweep a few people out of fight without getting swarmed. Might take you to get to a purple/brown belt level before you can do things like this without being told how, but if you were in a solo self defense situation, you could do anything a BJJ guy could do, plus the throws and sweeps. Judo mixed with boxing is very capable for self defense.

If I have a situation with a bigger guy, I default to Judo and Boxing. I want the distance and leverage Judo offers against bigger opponents. I don't want to Muay Thai kick a guy that weighs 250+, if I am walking around 220. Punches to the head are more effective if I have enough reach or after I have tripped or swept him to the side or on the ground, I can follow up with head strikes. I reserve Japanese JuJitsu for deadly force encounters (guns, knives, bats, clubs, bottles, etc) or for whenever I need a force multiplier (Multiple opponents, very large opponent).

JJ is also good for gentle redirection. (ie one or more women attacking you with shoes or fingernails). You do not want to have to punch a psycho woman. Even in America. If you call the cops first and there are more of them, than you, they will lie, and you may go to jail. Even throwing them is a bad idea, sweeps are ok-ish, but a JJ wrist lock or finger lock is painful enough to take the piss and vinegar out of them and more importantly get them to stop their attack. If you gain brown belt or higher JJ, you could use advanced nerve attacks and gently drop a woman to her knees with mere shoulder, elbow, and deltoid attacks with one or two fingers. The JJ can help you take shoes, car keys, bottles, etc. out of their hands without getting cut yourself or hurting her.

Don't think these things won't happen to you because you have alot of game and can talk women out of their drawers. A drunk and angry woman is still a drunk and angry woman. You could also easily replace woman with an out of control teenager trying to hurt you.

And on the 1.5 years of boxing and I am still a beginner bit, welcome to the club. You could be boxing for 10 years and still be a beginner in the grand scheme of things. I could go to a seminar with Freddie Roach right now and I would probably feel like a beginner again.

You are probably a better boxer than you think you are, but it is good that you think you are not shit at boxing. That will keep you humble before someone else humbles you.

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10-27-2016 08:09 AM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
^Kai, why would you recommend Judo over Japanese JuJutsu? Jujutsu is more complete, and has atemi waza, handy to close the distance before the grappling occurs. Plus I feel that the sport aspect of Judo makes it less pro-active than Jujutsu.

@Kinjutsu: yeah, I feel the same with Kenjutsu. Its so hard to find a good school nowadays. I scoured Paris for a good dojo and found a Jap Sensei who used to be uchidechi for one of the shihan of Shinkage Ryu style. Took 2 of his class, but feel like the teaching was totally watered down, washed up reject of what I would expect from a martial arts to kill with the sword. A lot of flowery stuff that I'm pretty sure was utter bullshit. At the beginning of class he asked us to bow to the east and then to the west, and feel if there's any difference. A ton of his students, the type of Paris hipsters, said that "bowing to the west is more natural because it follows the movement of the sun". I was like the fuck?

On top of that few of his students were fit, and the katas are not explained at all, even to the senior student. Yet this guy is widely considered a swordmaster in France and gives plenty of demonstration.

I wonder if somewhere the true arts of the samurai still exist and being taught.

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(This post was last modified: 10-28-2016 08:38 AM by Dalaran1991.)
10-28-2016 08:25 AM
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(10-28-2016 08:25 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  ^Kai, why would you recommend Judo over Japanese JuJutsu? Jujutsu is more complete, and has atemi waza, handy to close the distance before the grappling occurs. Plus I feel that the sport aspect of Judo makes it less pro-active than Jujutsu.

Either I wrote something confusing or you misread it. I meant that for him, if he was talking about taking BJJ for self defense, he would be better off taking Judo instead.

If he was referring to JJ, then obviously JJ is better than the other two for self defense.

Sometimes it is hard for me to figure out which Jitsu they mean if they do not write out Japanese or Brazilian in front of it. JJ schools are nowhere as plentiful as BJJ schools and no matter how many times it gets stated, you still have guys on this forum and outside of it, wanting to take BJJ for self defense. I get PMs from guys sometimes that seem to want to get me to validate their decision to use BJJ for self defense, when I refuse to do so, and it is not easy to convince them otherwise.

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10-28-2016 08:38 AM
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Its not BJJ its Japanese JJ. I would even say its German JJ because it has a tradition since the 70s in Germany and get adopt quite a lot for pure self defence. Many police units use it. The place where I want to go is a Police sports club. So the purpose is self defence. I did JJ when I was 10 or 11 for a year or so. First we did learn to fall correct what I absolute disliked after all the van damme movies I watched. Only the loser land on the ground. I also did some wing tsung. They over also Krav Maga and Kali at the sports club. I consider Ju Jitus are more complete system then Krav Maga thats why I prefer JJ.


[video=youtube]UJ_GmoKT9M0[/video]

There is a video. It mainly talk about the self defence lectures. The young girl said her mom already did it and now she too because of all the refugee attacks. Also they mention in the past they had 2 lectures like this in the year and now 2 in the month.

I just will do it, 2 times a week and when I get a little used to it I can also pick up boxing once or twice per week again. And still lifting my weights.

We will stand tall in the sunshine
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And if we have to go alone
We'll go alone with pride


For us, these conflicts can be resolved by appeal to the deeply ingrained higher principle embodied in the law, that individuals have the right (within defined limits) to choose how to live. But this Western notion of individualism and tolerance is by no means a conception in all cultures. - Theodore Dalrymple
10-28-2016 01:24 PM
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RE: TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet
(10-28-2016 08:25 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  ^Kai, why would you recommend Judo over Japanese JuJutsu? Jujutsu is more complete, and has atemi waza, handy to close the distance before the grappling occurs. Plus I feel that the sport aspect of Judo makes it less pro-active than Jujutsu.

@Kinjutsu: yeah, I feel the same with Kenjutsu. Its so hard to find a good school nowadays. I scoured Paris for a good dojo and found a Jap Sensei who used to be uchidechi for one of the shihan of Shinkage Ryu style. Took 2 of his class, but feel like the teaching was totally watered down, washed up reject of what I would expect from a martial arts to kill with the sword. A lot of flowery stuff that I'm pretty sure was utter bullshit. At the beginning of class he asked us to bow to the east and then to the west, and feel if there's any difference. A ton of his students, the type of Paris hipsters, said that "bowing to the west is more natural because it follows the movement of the sun". I was like the fuck?

On top of that few of his students were fit, and the katas are not explained at all, even to the senior student. Yet this guy is widely considered a swordmaster in France and gives plenty of demonstration.

I wonder if somewhere the true arts of the samurai still exist and being taught.

Great observations.
In my experience if you ever read or hear about some person being *insert grandiose title here* it's probably a lot of bullshit. I would've asked to see proof of his lineage. A lot of these guys can say all this stuff and never back it up. I consider it exactly the same as some guy you know that brags about all the pussy he slays but whenever you go out with him he never talks to any girls.
Your best bet is to directly ask who they studied under and go back a few generations. Don't be afraid to ask because ultimately it's your money and time being spent at the school.

A shit teacher will teach you the bad habits they learned and never got corrected. Those flowery movements were probably stuff he added in over the years and never was told to stop doing them.
With regards for any sword skill instruction, your single best bet is to learn from a school that has it integrated with other Japanese martial arts ie. Ninpo Taijutsu or Japanese jujitsu. The movement is the same regardless if you have a weapon in your hands or not. Poor training with weapons easily highlights the poor training in their empty handed self-defense.

They most likely are being taught in japan. If you're ever in Japan go seek out a kenjutsu dojo and the difference will be noticeable right away.

I'm starting to think most eastern martial arts brought over to the west is watered down. Traditional Judo is nothing to sneeze at in life or death street fight. You will put people in the hospital.

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10-29-2016 05:50 AM
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