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How hard is it to get into the stock market?
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TheDuncan Offline
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How hard is it to get into the stock market?
I mean on a personal level, buying, selling and investing in shares?

Also can you get into the stock business with a small amount or so you have to have thousands of dollars?
07-21-2016 09:45 PM
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chicane Offline
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Post: #2
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
open an account with eTrade, Ameritrade or many other only brokers. There you go, you're ready.
07-21-2016 10:08 PM
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SirTimothy Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
You could start with $500-$2,500, depending on the brokerage agency. And most of them allow you to trade online, or even on a smartphone, so it's pretty easy. Just be sure to research on what exactly you want to invest in, and also talk to someone in person about what their service is like before you sign up.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2016 10:11 PM by SirTimothy.)
07-21-2016 10:10 PM
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Kalkin Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
(07-21-2016 09:45 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  How hard is it to get into the stock market? I mean on a personal level, buying, selling and investing in shares?

Really easy. As easy as falling off a log. The hard part is walking away with a profit instead of a loss.

Quote:Also can you get into the stock business with a small amount or so you have to have thousands of dollars?

Your stock broker will allow you to trade small amounts of stock, but as a friendly voice across the aether, I suggest that you talk to me a little more first.

Here are a few facts to ponder:

  1. small investors tend to lose to bigger investors.
  2. It is such a strong tendency, that market analysts compare what small investors are doing compared to big investors.

One more thing. I don't know what the weather will be doing tomorrow. But I can accurately predict that 6 months from now, it will be cooler, and probably damper, than it is today, because of seasonal changes. Big trends are easier to predict than small trends.

Most stocks tend to move with the rest of the market. The movement of the stock market as a whole tends to have to do with the monetary policies of the federal reserve, and what phase of the business cycle the economy is in at the moment.

If you are not sure where we are in the business cycle, I suggest finding out first. What do you think?

Great success and prosperity to you!
07-21-2016 11:18 PM
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TheFinalEpic Offline
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Post: #5
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
Look into interactive brokers (IB). Best rates per trade I could find, and you can trade derivatives on margin quite easily.

That being said: PAPER TRADE for the first few months. Learn the ropes without skin in the game, and then enter it conservatively. One tactic widely shared is this: 70-80% of your portfolio should be in ETFs and more stable funds that follow the market (things get more expensive over time) and 20-30% is "fuck you" money that you need not have any emotional attachment to and are prepared to either hit home runs or lose it all.

"Money over bitches, nigga stick to the script." - Jay-Z
They gonna love me for my ambition.
07-21-2016 11:51 PM
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mpr Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
Finance and Applied Economics grad here. After I graduated I worked as an accountant for 5 years, and I'm currently back in school finishing a degree in accounting so I can sit for the CPA exams. So I have a decent amount of knowledge about this kind of thing.

How hard is it to get into the stock market? There are almost no barriers to entry. Many retail level online brokers do not require a minimum account balance. That being said I wouldn't recommend trading without educating yourself unless you're going to put all of your money into a low fee well diversified index fund and not touch it for a number of years.

Otherwise I'd recommend at least a basic understanding of: Macroeconomics and Financial Accounting along with a very good understanding of Finance. Other optional areas of study: a working knowledge of tax accounting can be very helpful and will increase your after tax returns. Statistics, Intermediate level Macroeconomics, and a understanding of mergers & acquisitions is very useful as well. If you're interested I could give you a list of textbooks along with the syllabuses for them. At the bare minimum you'd be looking at 6 courses worth of material. Of course more is better but that's the very minimum level of competency I'd recommend unless you're going to just put money into an index fund and let it sit.

"Those who will not risk cannot win." -John Paul Jones
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2016 01:28 AM by mpr.)
07-22-2016 01:09 AM
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Lagavulin Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
There are others who are better qualified to advise than me, however, I can offer some basic advice. It's very easy for the market to chew you up and spit you out if you don't know what you're doing - which you don't, yet.

Some trading platforms will allow you to set up an account where you trade with paper stocks, i.e. dummy trades. I suggest you open one of these to practise until you learn the ropes, and don't trade with your own money until you can turn a consistent profit.

Investing used to be all about buying for the long term, holding and realising a profit. Attitudes have largely changed due to market volatility, people nowadays want to get in, turn a profit and get out rather than hold for the long term - and why not if you can make it work. But it's not easy, there are lots of factors which can drive a share price and if you don't see them coming bang goes your investment. Knowing when to buy, hold and sell is key, as is timing your entry and exit points to maximise profits and minimise losses. If it was easy we'd all be rich.

Another piece of good advice I've heard is to stick to one area and focus on that, i.e. oil and gas, mining, or technology. Become an expert in that field, there's a book on this called the Zulu Principle that's worth a look.

Another good book is Come Into my Trading Room by Dr Elder.

Do your research - it's time consuming.

Only invest what you can afford to lose.

Don't listen to punters on online messaging boards who advise you to buy and sell different stocks.

Good luck.
07-22-2016 02:14 AM
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Vainikka Offline
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Post: #8
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
Easiest way is probably buy some low cost index-fund every month with same amount of cash. Because almost all economists and traders lose to index in the long-run.
07-22-2016 02:38 AM
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chakalaka Offline
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Post: #9
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
There are two ways in investing in the market.

Speculation or value investing.

Graham is the father of value investing. Jesse Livermore speculation.

Speculating is betting on short term. Momentum. Imagine brexit. The stocks would go down. At least initially. In speculation I look for events.

Jesse Livermore said something like all investments are speculative. Giving the example of railroads companies.

In speculation the important is the price. In value investing you use different metrics which gives a reasonable value of the company. You buy a company not caring for the price tomorrow.

To open an account in a trading plattform is easy.

Problem is you need to use intermediaries. Brokers. Except with direct purchase plans you will need a intermediary between you and the stock of the company you want to buy. You cannot buy a stock directly of the stock exchange. Which to me is amazing. Since with the advent of internet there is no reason whatsoever for brokers to exist. Unless to control the market.

There´s a thing called slippage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippage_(finance)

There are several companies who are convicted for doing ilicit slippage. All of them do. That´s why I laugh when somebody says Robinhood is free. I´m not saying RH does slippage.

Slippage basically means the brokers works against you. Imagine there´s a stock at 10$. For some reason you bet it will go up till 15$. You click buy. The order isn´t executed immediately. The broker instead of executing the order will buy it for 10$ for himself wait till it gets let´s say until 15$. And sell it to you for 15$. Making a profit of 5$. Now you knew it would get to 15$. But instead of continuing going up it starts coming down till 12$.

So you made a loss of 3$. Even though everything you did was right.

Now you want to sell it. You click sell. Same story. The broker sells it for 12$. Waits till it gets 10$. Buys it at 10$ and sells it to you. Making a profit of 2$.

It´s the same principle when you flipp houses. You know somebody wants to buy a specific house. You buy it yourself and resell for profit.

http://thefxview.com/2014/01/04/what-is-...-slippage/

http://www.financemagnates.com/forex/bro...-slippage/

Every time you click buy (market order) your giving a free check. The broker can write the number he wants. Of course there´s stops, limits, etc. But if you use this ones. You never buy the stock.

There´s even stories on brokers having hedge funds betting against their brokers clients orders.

It´s kind like a tax. The brokers tax. A way to bypass this is buying on the last 5 minutes of the session. But even then I once had my stock in red on the station and it was green on every stock site. The broker told me it would be updated. I´m waiting till today.

The best brokerage in theory is Schwab. Even though I´ve never used it.

Do not paper trade. Trade will small amounts even 50$. Have some skin in the game. Also paper trade doesn´t take into considerations a lot of factors.

At one point I started to read how to create a brokerage company. It´s not that hard if you use an offshore.

It´s easy in theory to make money in the stock market. But the intermediaries fuck it up.

Without slippage. I would beat the market consistently. Since I´m not opening up a brokerage firm. I will wait for a downturn of 30%. Buy stocks blue chips dividend aristocrts, through direct purchase plans and keep them until the dividend yeld passes bellow 5%.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2016 09:23 AM by chakalaka.)
07-22-2016 08:46 AM
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DimeBait Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
Great question and input! Is there minimum or ideal amount to start with for either index fund or variable type investing?
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2016 01:06 PM by DimeBait.)
07-22-2016 01:05 PM
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chicane Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
(07-22-2016 01:05 PM)DimeBait Wrote:  Great question and input! Is there minimum or ideal amount to start with for either index fund or variable type investing?

Many brokerages have a per transaction fee. If you make a small transaction, the fee eats up a lot more of your profit.
07-22-2016 01:34 PM
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TheDuncan Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
I downloaded the robinhood app but being honest I have no clue where to start, so for instance 1 share for apple is $98, what happens when I buy that 1 share? Or how about 5 for about $500? Do I get money back from that?
07-22-2016 02:09 PM
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The Beast1 Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
(07-22-2016 02:09 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  I downloaded the robinhood app but being honest I have no clue where to start, so for instance 1 share for apple is $98, what happens when I buy that 1 share? Or how about 5 for about $500? Do I get money back from that?

Ah young padawan, getting into stocks! Let me take this question:

First, realize that the stock market is like a very large auction house. Except with guys talking really fast when people want to buy, you have computers doing most of the work.

In your example, when you want to buy 1 share of Apple you are giving someone else who wants to sell that stock 98$. You are getting a very very small ownership share of Apple. You own a part of Apple! Depending on the type of stock (there are different ownership classes) you may have a right to voting on corporate mandates and other odds and ends.

Now, how do you get money out of a stock? Well you can sell your 1 share of Apple for 98$ and essentially get your money back minus any transaction fees (all brokers charge a small fee).

But how does that 98$ a share go up or down in value?
Lets go back to my auction house example before, other people determine the price of a stock. If you notice when you buy a stock there are a few different selection options available to you. You can in theory say I want to sell my apple stock for $45 when the bid price is $98. Your order will be completed quickly albeit this is foolish because you should sell it as close to or even above the bid price so you get the most money. You can do the reverse and try to sell it above the bid price but no one will buy it.

When you buy a stock at $98 and sell it at say $115 you mad a profit of $17 minus any transaction fees! If you do the opposite, you have what's known as a loss.

There's a special term called "volume". This is the number of shares that have exchanged hands in a given day. When a stock has high volume it is considered very liquid IE you will always have someone to buy or sell to. It is this "liquidity" that helps accurately sets the price for a stock or any asset for that matter!

I learned all of this as a hobby and got into penny stock trading. I made and lost a bunch of money. Lots of fun. I highly suggest you do not do this.

Instead, do as another post suggested and enter into some large cap ETFs that cover a broad market segment. This is better than investing in individual stocks as it is easier to guess where an individual sector will be after a certain amount of time rather than a company.

I recommend Charles Schwab as a good entry level broker. They have online classes that can teach you the basics of investing and their telephone brokers are a great resource for n00bish questions. Understand the difference between investing and trading. You should be investing ie buying and holding stocks for several years at a time instead of trading.

Another good resource is Investopedia, I recommend you start here and read all of the sections:
http://www.investopedia.com/university/stocks/

Let us know if you have any other questions, especially the different types of buying and selling. I honestly still struggle with the difference between a limit and stop order.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2016 03:04 PM by The Beast1.)
07-22-2016 03:04 PM
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TheDuncan Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
Thanks for all the info guys, so you dont get money by owning a stock per say, its all about selling that stock for more money.

So for Apple or huge companys its not really ideal for someone with a low amount of money.

Lets say though I find a startup company and buy 20 shares for $1000 and in 5 years it becomes a huge company, that $1000 investment can become $100000, thats why people always like to say "man I wish I woulda bout stock in MS, Apple, Google" etc

Now the question is, where can you look for these start up companys and invest in the ones you might think will make it big?

So thats one way to make the "big bucks" but it seems there is luck involved in that option, what is a sure way to make money though, is it actually possible to go from $1000 to $100,000 in a decent amount of time? ie; not 30 years.
07-22-2016 03:20 PM
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The Beast1 Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
(07-22-2016 03:20 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  Thanks for all the info guys, so you dont get money by owning a stock per say, its all about selling that stock for more money.

So for Apple or huge companys its not really ideal for someone with a low amount of money.

Lets say though I find a startup company and buy 20 shares for $1000 and in 5 years it becomes a huge company, that $1000 investment can become $100000, thats why people always like to say "man I wish I woulda bout stock in MS, Apple, Google" etc

Now the question is, where can you look for these start up companys and invest in the ones you might think will make it big?

So thats one way to make the "big bucks" but it seems there is luck involved in that option, what is a sure way to make money though, is it actually possible to go from $1000 to $100,000 in a decent amount of time? ie; not 30 years.

I hate the be the bearer of bad news, but you won't become a millionaire from investing in the stock market. If you're smart, you can make a extra money over the long term and beat out inflation.

The only people that get rich from the stock market are the insiders that manage other people's money.

Most of these start-ups that you're referring to have a private share structure set up before they go public. IE the venture capital guys, angel investors, founders, and other key people have an ownership stake in the start up.

When they go for an IPO, generally the group of people I mentioned earlier will own 90% of the outstanding stock. The remaining 10% of the shares are then made available to the general public.

Microsoft, for example, had their IPO in 1986 at a price of $28 a share.
$28 was a lot of money back then. However if you held that stock till 2016 you should now have 432 shares at a value of $ 24,148.08! Microsoft has had several stock splits since 1986. That means in order to keep their share price competitive they gave you more shares over time! The opposite of this does occur so and is generally a bad thing. This isn't always the case however.

There are certain websites out there that let you get in on early start ups like this. angel.co is one that comes to mind.

Bear in mind that you aren't investing in the public stock market yet. You are investing in a private company and anything at that point goes. Read agreements over carefully.

The trick is getting into growth markets before they take off. However, there aren't a lot right now. Check the stock market thread for some good debate on the subject.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2016 03:34 PM by The Beast1.)
07-22-2016 03:33 PM
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chakalaka Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
Besides stock appreciation. You can also receive dividends. Think about like a rent paid by the company to you. Every month/quarter/year the company pays you.

For that apple stock. If you bought 500$ of the litle bitch you would receive a dividend of 11,4$.

Getting in startups is not a good deal. Since there´s no market to sell. You buy from angel, seedr´s, etc. But imagine you decide to sell your share. To who will you sell it to? Will you put an add in a newspaper?

There are companies which pay monthly dividends. This means basically each month you receive a check in your account. Just like a rent. Just like if you bought a house and a tenant would pay you.

http://www.dividend.com/dividend-stocks/...stocks.php

For dividends yelds think about it like houses also. Generally speaking the shittier the neighborhood the higher the yeld. Bigger risk, bigger reward.

You can easily get a 10%-20% yeld.

Check the company. If you think it´s safe. Do it.

For a safe monthly dividend check:

http://finance.yahoo.com/quote/O?ltr=1

This company realty income pays all the costs. Even management. Or whatever.

I like dividends. If you receive a dividend you shouldn´t worry about the stock going up or down. Unless it´s something serious.

What I would like to do was to leverage dividends. Giving only the stock I´m buying with the loan as colateral. I have to look into this.

Imagine you have 500k´s and want to leverage it into 1M. With a monthly dividend stock of 10% yeld you would receive around 8K monthly of dividends. If the interest rate from the loan is bellow the rate of the dividend you would be profiting.

That´s pretty much what you can do with houses. And houses pay themselves. Stocks should also pay themselves. Houses are safer. So the collateral is you. But loaning stocks giving only the stocks bought with the loan as colateral. This would be something I would look into. Limited recourse loans.

http://www.asx.com.au/education/investor...verage.htm

This is something I want to look into when I have more time. If someone has info on this please share.

You need to leverage. If you have 500$ and buy let´s say Armour Residential. Each month you receive around 4$. But if you can leverage this into 50,000$. Each month you receive 400$ minus the interest imagine 150$ you can get 250$ monthly.

Now why do rich get more rich everyday.

Imagine you have 5,000,000. You get each month around 40k´s. Spend 30k´s. And reinvest the remaining in more stocks. This means the following month it will be 5010000. And every month it grows bigger. Same for yearly dividends. If you add more zeroes. It grows by itself. Compound.

This is something I want to get into after more research. Playing with the house money.

Also check taxes.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2016 05:49 PM by chakalaka.)
07-22-2016 05:15 PM
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
I can second that doing it right is time consuming. Ive prepared a couple of great recommendations already, but they required a lot of work. Both background work that allows me to know what trends are in play, and an extensive amount of work analyzing the company, researching market sentiment, and forecasting its financials....probably a good 50 hours of work on one company. I would have made some great gains relative to my peers(15% on average over a few months period) but even then it takes a large investment for that amount of time to be worth it. And this was with access to professional database subscriptions that are inordinately expensive. For your average person investing a few grand your better going with a market index....lower returns but easier to forecast, especially if you have access to a good macroeconomic analys. I recommend using Socrates.


Don't invest without a comprehensive analysis. I made a few small bets before and got creamed that way, and NEVER take what the c suite says at fave value.
07-22-2016 05:20 PM
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lavidaloca Offline
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
Buying stocks is simple. You literally go into a branch, fill in paperwork which they will assist you with. They approve your account. You then sign on your account via your bank card and personalized password.

You literally click make an order, buy something like that. You type in the stock you'd like to buy. You click buy. It will probably bring you to a screen showing you the cost of what you are buying and if you want that you click submit. ***each broker has a bit different set up but its pretty simple.
07-22-2016 05:35 PM
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
It's very easy but you need to be on top of your annual record-keeping to make tax filing more smooth. You don't need anything more than Excel for this. I'd say invest your savings from working in ETFs (not individual companies), don't get starry-eyed dreams of living off of trading.

I think you're coming into the market when it's on the expensive side for both stocks and bonds (US overinvested, some of Europe slightly underinvested)...but if I had an uneducated guess it would be that we could still get some 15% gains to the end of the year but that 2017 will be a full year of deflation to wash out a lot of optimism (ie ~-20%), with full recovery in 2018.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2016 06:07 PM by phoenix101.)
07-22-2016 06:05 PM
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RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
(07-22-2016 08:46 AM)chakalaka Wrote:  There are two ways in investing in the market.

Speculation or value investing.

Graham is the father of value investing. Jesse Livermore speculation.

Speculating is betting on short term. Momentum. Imagine brexit. The stocks would go down. At least initially. In speculation I look for events.

Jesse Livermore said something like all investments are speculative. Giving the example of railroads companies.

In speculation the important is the price. In value investing you use different metrics which gives a reasonable value of the company. You buy a company not caring for the price tomorrow.

To open an account in a trading plattform is easy.

Problem is you need to use intermediaries. Brokers. Except with direct purchase plans you will need a intermediary between you and the stock of the company you want to buy. You cannot buy a stock directly of the stock exchange. Which to me is amazing. Since with the advent of internet there is no reason whatsoever for brokers to exist. Unless to control the market.

There´s a thing called slippage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippage_(finance)

There are several companies who are convicted for doing ilicit slippage. All of them do. That´s why I laugh when somebody says Robinhood is free. I´m not saying RH does slippage.

Slippage basically means the brokers works against you. Imagine there´s a stock at 10$. For some reason you bet it will go up till 15$. You click buy. The order isn´t executed immediately. The broker instead of executing the order will buy it for 10$ for himself wait till it gets let´s say until 15$. And sell it to you for 15$. Making a profit of 5$. Now you knew it would get to 15$. But instead of continuing going up it starts coming down till 12$.

So you made a loss of 3$. Even though everything you did was right.

Now you want to sell it. You click sell. Same story. The broker sells it for 12$. Waits till it gets 10$. Buys it at 10$ and sells it to you. Making a profit of 2$.

It´s the same principle when you flipp houses. You know somebody wants to buy a specific house. You buy it yourself and resell for profit.

http://thefxview.com/2014/01/04/what-is-...-slippage/

http://www.financemagnates.com/forex/bro...-slippage/

Every time you click buy (market order) your giving a free check. The broker can write the number he wants. Of course there´s stops, limits, etc. But if you use this ones. You never buy the stock.

There´s even stories on brokers having hedge funds betting against their brokers clients orders.

It´s kind like a tax. The brokers tax. A way to bypass this is buying on the last 5 minutes of the session. But even then I once had my stock in red on the station and it was green on every stock site. The broker told me it would be updated. I´m waiting till today.

The best brokerage in theory is Schwab. Even though I´ve never used it.

Do not paper trade. Trade will small amounts even 50$. Have some skin in the game. Also paper trade doesn´t take into considerations a lot of factors.

At one point I started to read how to create a brokerage company. It´s not that hard if you use an offshore.

It´s easy in theory to make money in the stock market. But the intermediaries fuck it up.

Without slippage. I would beat the market consistently. Since I´m not opening up a brokerage firm. I will wait for a downturn of 30%. Buy stocks blue chips dividend aristocrts, through direct purchase plans and keep them until the dividend yeld passes bellow 5%.

While you make some valid points, the OP can avoid this by using limit orders... and even if he uses market orders, he's just starting off - it's not like a a cent or two difference on the spread is going to kill him for a few shares here and there.

I think it's interesting that you believe that you could beat the market consistently if it weren't for slippage... even in the wikipedia article you linked, the price difference was something like 3 cents on a $151 share that's eaten up by this. The total sum in the example is $717 loss on a $3 million dollar block of trades.

You really got that much bread floating around in your accounts where you're losing a significant amount of money on your trades?
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2016 09:52 PM by booshala.)
07-22-2016 09:50 PM
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chakalaka Offline
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Post: #21
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
(07-22-2016 09:50 PM)booshala Wrote:  
(07-22-2016 08:46 AM)chakalaka Wrote:  There are two ways in investing in the market.

Speculation or value investing.

Graham is the father of value investing. Jesse Livermore speculation.

Speculating is betting on short term. Momentum. Imagine brexit. The stocks would go down. At least initially. In speculation I look for events.

Jesse Livermore said something like all investments are speculative. Giving the example of railroads companies.

In speculation the important is the price. In value investing you use different metrics which gives a reasonable value of the company. You buy a company not caring for the price tomorrow.

To open an account in a trading plattform is easy.

Problem is you need to use intermediaries. Brokers. Except with direct purchase plans you will need a intermediary between you and the stock of the company you want to buy. You cannot buy a stock directly of the stock exchange. Which to me is amazing. Since with the advent of internet there is no reason whatsoever for brokers to exist. Unless to control the market.

There´s a thing called slippage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippage_(finance)

There are several companies who are convicted for doing ilicit slippage. All of them do. That´s why I laugh when somebody says Robinhood is free. I´m not saying RH does slippage.

Slippage basically means the brokers works against you. Imagine there´s a stock at 10$. For some reason you bet it will go up till 15$. You click buy. The order isn´t executed immediately. The broker instead of executing the order will buy it for 10$ for himself wait till it gets let´s say until 15$. And sell it to you for 15$. Making a profit of 5$. Now you knew it would get to 15$. But instead of continuing going up it starts coming down till 12$.

So you made a loss of 3$. Even though everything you did was right.

Now you want to sell it. You click sell. Same story. The broker sells it for 12$. Waits till it gets 10$. Buys it at 10$ and sells it to you. Making a profit of 2$.

It´s the same principle when you flipp houses. You know somebody wants to buy a specific house. You buy it yourself and resell for profit.

http://thefxview.com/2014/01/04/what-is-...-slippage/

http://www.financemagnates.com/forex/bro...-slippage/

Every time you click buy (market order) your giving a free check. The broker can write the number he wants. Of course there´s stops, limits, etc. But if you use this ones. You never buy the stock.

There´s even stories on brokers having hedge funds betting against their brokers clients orders.

It´s kind like a tax. The brokers tax. A way to bypass this is buying on the last 5 minutes of the session. But even then I once had my stock in red on the station and it was green on every stock site. The broker told me it would be updated. I´m waiting till today.

The best brokerage in theory is Schwab. Even though I´ve never used it.

Do not paper trade. Trade will small amounts even 50$. Have some skin in the game. Also paper trade doesn´t take into considerations a lot of factors.

At one point I started to read how to create a brokerage company. It´s not that hard if you use an offshore.

It´s easy in theory to make money in the stock market. But the intermediaries fuck it up.

Without slippage. I would beat the market consistently. Since I´m not opening up a brokerage firm. I will wait for a downturn of 30%. Buy stocks blue chips dividend aristocrts, through direct purchase plans and keep them until the dividend yeld passes bellow 5%.

While you make some valid points, the OP can avoid this by using limit orders... and even if he uses market orders, he's just starting off - it's not like a a cent or two difference on the spread is going to kill him for a few shares here and there.

I think it's interesting that you believe that you could beat the market consistently if it weren't for slippage... even in the wikipedia article you linked, the price difference was something like 3 cents on a $151 share that's eaten up by this. The total sum in the example is $717 loss on a $3 million dollar block of trades.

You really got that much bread floating around in your accounts where you're losing a significant amount of money on your trades?

It´s not a cent or two. It´s continuous losses from slipping. You´re probably thinking I´m loosing and using slippage as a scapegoat. I´m not.

Daily I check this site:

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Business+&+Finance

Also read the covers of FT and WSJ:

http://en.kiosko.net/uk/np/ft_uk.html

http://en.kiosko.net/us/np/wsj.html

Sometimes I also check this:

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/business/in...T.nav=page

and this:

http://jewishbusinessnews.com/

Value investing only makes sense when you buy after a crash. In my opinion. Even though you always win. It´s just a question of how much time it takes. Indexes this is.

There are specific events which can make a stock go up or down:

The most recent event was the coup militar in Turkey.

I posted on the stock market thread in 15/07/2016:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-52801...pid1349149

RE: Stock Market 2016
Short Turkey ETF´s and Lira!

Turkey ETF´s are down since I posted -18%.

Same with Lira. Even though I don´t do Forex.

My understanding some events work like a wave and normally I try to catch the foam. Not the peak of the wave. Only when there´s a high degree of certainty I try to get the beginning of the wave.

Brexit was also a good event. If you bet after the results you could earn serious cash.

Other events I´m quite sure the result. Like when the news came out Peugeot was going to be investigated for emissions I shorted the stock. Even though the stock went down I had losses because of slippage. I shorted the stock. The stock went down and I had losses.

I´ve quit trading when I started a different system. Earnings are also an event. Not decisive like a coup or a brexit. I would check the company with the biggest positive difference between the earnings expected and the ones obtained. Normally the stock will be up two to three days. And then come down. I was checking if this system worked when the stock was up and in my station red. Sent an email to the brokerage. Up until now I´m waiting for it to be updated to green.

There was one trader who bribed journalists from financial newspapers which passed him the news before publishing. He gained 3-4% on average from this scheme.

Also if a stock is traded in two stock exchanges. Let´s say London and NY. Like Shell. If the oil is up as a commodity. The slut goes up in London why the fuck wouldn´t it go up in NY. Since NY opens later than London. You can use this for your profit.

It all starts in Tokyo. Tokyo normally sets the pace. It´s confirmed by London first and then NY.

Also the wave works through multiple stock exchanges when based on a commodity. Since they have different time frames.

It was curious to see the Israel stock exchange is opened on sunday.

I will post some events. For speculation short term. For long term my opinion is we have to buy after a crash.

My opinion is events normally happen a thursday or a friday because the stock markets are closed on weekends. And they can control the outcome. There was one crash on Tokyo this year before 4 days of holidays.

Stocks are like weather. Normally can predict them 100%. But if it´s winter and it rains in the morning it will rain in the afternoon also.
07-23-2016 07:35 AM
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Vainikka Offline
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Post: #22
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
(07-22-2016 05:20 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  I can second that doing it right is time consuming. Ive prepared a couple of great recommendations already, but they required a lot of work. Both background work that allows me to know what trends are in play, and an extensive amount of work analyzing the company, researching market sentiment, and forecasting its financials....probably a good 50 hours of work on one company. I would have made some great gains relative to my peers(15% on average over a few months period) but even then it takes a large investment for that amount of time to be worth it. And this was with access to professional database subscriptions that are inordinately expensive. For your average person investing a few grand your better going with a market index....lower returns but easier to forecast, especially if you have access to a good macroeconomic analys. I recommend using Socrates.


Don't invest without a comprehensive analysis. I made a few small bets before and got creamed that way, and NEVER take what the c suite says at fave value.

I agree with you!


Doing your own research is really timeconsuming. I do it only because I really like it. For average man stock analysis and excel spreadsheets are probably very boring and waste of time.

I recommend index funds for average investors.( just check the costs so banks don't fool you and take too big part of your money).

Index fund is a fund that invests your money to stocks in that index. If some stock is having bigger weight in the index the fund invests more on that stock. Fund does not try to time markets or do forecasts and it does not trade activelly, so the costs are low. It is passive and re-invests dividends. And yes, it is very boring.

Invest same amount of money every month, so you get more stocks when prices are low and less stocks when prices are high, that means your average price is ok. Of course you can't beat index, but hey, so can't the professionals.

By doing this you don't really need to think and waste time doing analysis. And you can focus on something you like and in which you are good at. And when you check your savings after 15 years, you probably have nice amount of cash and have done better than most Business and Finance graduates.

If you are intrested in stocks then of course do your analysis! There are some good resources in this tread already. Read couple books and do your math and see what happens. I have beaten the index in last years, but I guess it is mostly because of luck. But still I like to do this.


Still planning to do this in future
: If i encounter last minute resistance, then I grab my computer and ignore the girl and start doing Excel calculations and watching stock markets. Neill Strauss used something like this in his book.
07-23-2016 08:21 AM
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DoctaWho Offline
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Post: #23
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
I'll second the advice about low cost index funds. The problem is that when you try to beat the market with individual trades you generally can't react quickly enough to take advantage of market movements and you may see many of your gains eaten away by fees. If you pay a professions you have to deal with a combination of him trying to push bullshit on you, him having no real incentive to help you succeed (he's paid either way) and fees eating into the small percentage he might beat the market by.

Another option is to get a lit of stocks that have strong history of dividend growth and individually invest in those. If you want to go that route look at Dividend Mantra and Dividend Diplomats.
07-23-2016 12:36 PM
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chakalaka Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
Another resource:

http://www.investing.com/indices/major-indices

All major stock markets are represented here. Besides on the station. The names of the stock markets are not US stock market or France stock market. because they use a sample of the most important stocks and gather them in a way it gives a impression of the global stock exchange behaviour giving it a different name.

The S&P500 is the representation of the +-500 larger stocks of NYSE. The full amount of the stocks in NYSE is around 3000. Even though I believe around 4 stocks weight 40% of the S&P500.

To get info of a company stock just put the name of the company + yahoo in google. Example: starbucks + yahoo.

https://www.google.pt/webhp?sourceid=chr...ks%20yahoo

http://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SBUX?ltr=1

Stocks are about trends or patterns. It´s just like game. If A happens + B you will probably get C. And you money is the player. And your coaching him to get the most amount of lays. And stocks are the sluts. Either you fuck them or they fuck you. Central banks are cockblockers.

You can either SNL (speculation) or have a LTR (value investing). But in the end you always dump them.

I love this shit. But dislike brokers. Adding another layer is useless. Gotta buy a seat in the Stock exchange.

But the best is managing your money and other people money at the same time. You just add a zero. In the end it will be the same amount of work.

Problem is keeping discipline. Not go for all events. Seat straight. Brexit was not a sure event. There was also the terrorist atack in Belgium. I expected the airline stocks to go down. They didn´t.

Some trivia. The oldest stock traded in the NYSE is a bank Mellon BK.

Check this video. It´s from a documentary of floor traders. This amount of pressure fucks you up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xyUaSY4...tml5=False

LET IT RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!

BET MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAKE MONEY EVERYDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2016 01:17 PM by chakalaka.)
07-23-2016 12:46 PM
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Peregrine Offline
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Post: #25
RE: How hard is it to get into the stock market?
(07-21-2016 09:45 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  I mean on a personal level, buying, selling and investing in shares?

Also can you get into the stock business with a small amount or so you have to have thousands of dollars?

If you're 20K in debt (as you mentioned in another thread), focus on getting rid of that first before you even think stocks. Financial markets are like poker - it doesn't seem that hard and it's easy to confuse luck for skill, which is how the sharks stay fat off the fish.
07-23-2016 08:07 PM
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