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How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
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RichieP Offline
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Post: #1
How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
...if he currently has absolutely no desire for marriage/kids?

You could be 25, 30, 35 with no desire to settle down at all... but (I assume) this tends to change with age?

Lower energy, health problems, declining physical attractiveness, general slowing down. Maybe priorities shift from adventure, to stability.

Perhaps you should just keep going at life - building game, skills, wealth, assets, experiences, relationships etc - up until the point you get the urge to settle down.

But what if that doesn't come until your 50s, 60s? That feels like very late to the party for marriage (or committed LTR) and kids.

This boils down to being unable to accurately predict your future preferences and perspective.

My concern is, by the time I actually really want it, I might be over the hill, and wish I'd invested more in my "relationship future" while younger.

But for now, I'm totally happy having adventures and relatively short relationships, with no desire for marriage or kids.

Is it "giving in to fear" to seek a long-term partner before you actually feel ready - or is it a wise move to begin the search and find a great match before you reach your later years, almost like an investment? Or is there another route entirely?
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2016 06:38 PM by RichieP.)
08-21-2016 06:27 PM
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wi30 Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
How old are you? I'm 25, almost got roped into it despite being part of this forum since 18.

All I can say is to never go against your gut. It doesn't matter if everything looks great on paper.

Go with your gut. You'll never regret it. If that means a wife and kids, great. If it means leaving your wife to pursue your dreams, great.

I luckily went with my gut and bailed before it went south. Now I'm chilling in the mountains and having a blast. I'd love kids someday but if it never works out, it never works out.

Who knows what's going to happen in 1,5,10 years from now? You could get hit by a bus or struck by lightning.

Keep living your life's mission every day and fuck the rest. Follow your morals and passion and do what you want to do. No point in worrying about what life is going to look like decades down the road. Those years might never happen.

Wake up every morning and follow your purpose. A wife and kids may follow, they may not. Who gives a shit?

If you asked me a month ago where I would be today, it sure as hell wouldn't be in a 12 month lease in Colorado. Life happens. Roll with the punches and keep doing whatever it is you're meant to.
08-21-2016 07:10 PM
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ivansirko Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
I am in my early 40's, married with children. However I was the opposite of you. I felt i wasn't really a man unless i was married and taking care of a family. It resulted in a lot of bad decisions with some really shitty women (engaged 3 times before the 4th time was the charm if you can believe that). I wouldn't take having a family back but what I would do different is just "think about what you are doing sirko" and forcefed myself the red pill. I don't like the man I was 20 years ago.

wi30 is correct. Go with your gut. Things can change and eventually you may want to settle down. Take inventory of yourself, allow for some self-reflection of your priorities and your life...and enjoy it.
08-21-2016 07:22 PM
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Isaac Jordan Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
(08-21-2016 06:27 PM)RichieP Wrote:  Perhaps you should just keep going at life - building game, skills, wealth, assets, experiences, relationships etc - up until the point you get the urge to settle down.

As a guy in his mid-twenties who thinks - but isn't totally sure - that he wants to have kids some day (probably ten or so years from now), this has been my strategy so far.

It's all about keeping your options open.

If you turn a job into a career, live below your means, maintain a diverse portfolio of long-term investments, stay in shape, keep your game sharp, expand your network, and continue to learn new skills and explore new opportunities, you're going to put yourself in a winning position no matter what your future self decides to do.

Want to find a good woman and have kids? No problem, as you'll have maximized your SMV at the time of its greatest potential, in addition to saving and investing enough to provide for a comfortable existence with a family.

Want to stay single and keep doing your thing? Great, by then you should have a good pile of cash in the bank and some marketable skills around which you can build whatever lifestyle you choose.

Instead of trying to guess what your future self may desire 5, 10, 20 years down the road, it makes more sense to simply maximize the number and value of available options, and then choose the best once the time comes.
08-21-2016 09:56 PM
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Travesty Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
My advice would be if you don't get any feelings by 30, then sit and visualize several times about being 50 well-off, lots of friends, being the cool uncle, give back to your community, great at your hobbies, early retired passive income, great health without kids.

That is the absolute best case. If you can visualize that and your gut says this is pretty nice keeping going and check back each birthday thereafter. If your gut says that picture seems empty it is probably time to switch gears ASAP.

If you turn 40 I would switch to visualizing the same scenario at 60 until death because this is getting toward the end.
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2016 10:21 PM by Travesty.)
08-21-2016 10:17 PM
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tomzestatlu Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
I will be 24 in a month and I am more family oriented person. But I am struggling with never-ending considering option "B", while I enjoy option "A" and opposite.
When I am without relationship, I feel unfulfiled and banging different girls definitely doesn´t bring me long-term happiness. On the other hand, while in LTR, I feel uncomfortable, because "what if there´s something better?".

Anyway, I will probably settle down soon. I would say, that I had enough fun and enough parties in my life. Those who continue in this from-weekend-to-weekend lifestyle will never achieve anything in their lifes. I like the imagionation of building something (family). I even think about childern, actually I don´t like them, but I would like to raise badass son. The argument against children is money. By my 30 years (or something above) I will maybe quit job and try doing something different. And for that I will need savings. And the cost of living for young working family is too big in my country.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2016 04:05 AM by tomzestatlu.)
08-22-2016 04:02 AM
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TheMaleBrain Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
(08-21-2016 06:27 PM)RichieP Wrote:  This boils down to being unable to accurately predict your future preferences and perspective.

My concern is, by the time I actually really want it, I might be over the hill, and wish I'd invested more in my "relationship future" while younger.

Sounds like FOMO - Fear Of Missing Out.
Do not fear that. That is fear for the sake of fear.

Best advice (quoting Issaac Jordan):
It's all about keeping your options open.

If you have game, resources and at least some energy - you will probably do good even late in life.

don't do things out of fear.

My thoughts on "Investing in relationship future":
1. Experience LTR to see how it works, if you want. The forum is loaded with LTR advice.
If so - quality girls only.
2. Ask yourself once in a while: "What do I want? Is it good for me? Why?"
This will help you form your thoughts and feelings on the subject.
3. Try being around babies for a few hours (familiy?). see how it works out for you. If you get married this will happen.

"I love a fulfilling and sexual relationship. That is why I make the effort to have many of those" - TheMaleBrain
"Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
08-22-2016 07:31 AM
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The Black Knight Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
(08-21-2016 09:56 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  
(08-21-2016 06:27 PM)RichieP Wrote:  Perhaps you should just keep going at life - building game, skills, wealth, assets, experiences, relationships etc - up until the point you get the urge to settle down.

As a guy in his mid-twenties who thinks - but isn't totally sure - that he wants to have kids some day (probably ten or so years from now), this has been my strategy so far.

It's all about keeping your options open.

If you turn a job into a career, live below your means, maintain a diverse portfolio of long-term investments, stay in shape, keep your game sharp, expand your network, and continue to learn new skills and explore new opportunities, you're going to put yourself in a winning position no matter what your future self decides to do.

Want to find a good woman and have kids? No problem, as you'll have maximized your SMV at the time of its greatest potential, in addition to saving and investing enough to provide for a comfortable existence with a family.

Want to stay single and keep doing your thing? Great, by then you should have a good pile of cash in the bank and some marketable skills around which you can build whatever lifestyle you choose.

Instead of trying to guess what your future self may desire 5, 10, 20 years down the road, it makes more sense to simply maximize the number and value of available options, and then choose the best once the time comes.

This is right on.

You can't predict the future. You can't predict ever-evolving circumstances. You can predict and control to some degree your potential options with some planning however.

I'm in my late 20s/early 30s and the next decade of my life is partly geared towards setting myself up for the possibility of having a family one day.

But I won't have kids like many people simply because time is running out or out of fear of missing the boat; I think that's irresponsible and stupid. I will have them if AT THE TIME the right circumstances come about but of course, there is ZERO guarantee those circumstances will actually exist in the future.

What are some of the circumstances?

1. Do I have a stable income? Is it reasonable to assume it will be 15 years from now? - Having a family without money is a hard life. I rather not do it if money is gonna be a major issue. I want to be a sole/primary provider so money flow needs to be on point and of a certain amount.

2. Do I have some degree of location independence? - If culture/current environment goes to shit, can I move easily? I don't want to feel trapped.

3. Is the woman Mother of My Children material but ALSO down for me to have side pieces safely and discreetly? - Very rare thing to find in the US but it can be done with some foreign women.

4. In my particular country/state, are the family/child support/divorce laws reasonable? - I recently started looking in detail (I covered this in another thread not too long ago) into the divorce/child support laws in various US states and countries. Some places have such evil and retarded laws that I will NEVER even consider having kids/getting married in those places. This has an impact on where I would go to make money and where I would go to seek out a partner.

5. Is the host country/state overall culturally pro-family? In the US, I find liberal places in particular to have borderline or outright disgust with the traditional male provider/woman housewife sort of family unit. Why bother living in a place that is constantly at odds with the way I want to live?

If all the above conditions existed today, I would probably check out right now and do the family thing. In my view, you should have kids as soon as you can once the proper conditions exist assuming you have even a modest interest in having kids. Why bother spending two decades raising kids just so you can go die off in a few years into their adulthood? I don't want to just see them grow; I want to see them live.

Look at Trump or George Bush for example. These guys had kids young enough to actually witness their kids do great things and see legacies in the making. Trump has seen his children turn into accomplished successful well-adjusted adults with their own established families and Bush saw one of his kids become President of the US. A lot of people talk about having kids when in the the 40+ range but for me, that seems too late from a cost/benefit standpoint. For what I value at least. I also think a lot of people regret/have mix feelings about kids because they don't demand circumstances that allow them to live the family lifestyle they want.

For instance, I want side pieces. I KNOW I can't limit myself to one pussy for decades and I will NOT be force to be covert/living in fear to get it. It's not an overwhelming desire but some side action (even if P4P) will be a must for me. The woman not down for it? Whatever then. Bye.

I also say I want stable money and of a certain amount. One reason for this is that I want enough to support a nanny/au pair. Me and the wife need a 3 day weekend getaway to recharge? Hand the kid to the nanny and peace out. I'm not dicking around hoping some relative or friend will watch the kid(s) as an act of charity.

But most men don't think about these things until AFTER the fact. You have to demand the things you want and filtering for it from day one; it's very difficult if not borderline impossible to alter the fundamentals of a relationship once deep in one.

Knowing what I value and the circumstances that I want to exist, my game has largely shifted to focusing on only high-quality women/potential LTR grade women AND low-risk/low liability women. Everything else is a distraction, a liability, or a waste of my time.

You have to understand: Every chick we bang as players is the potential mother of our children and I really don't want to deal with some substandard woman for two decades fucking up my kids and taking my money while also having my LTR prospects take a hit due to additional baggage; solely just because I wanted to get my nut on for a night. There is too much at stake now and I do have a soft-time limit (around 40) for when the family thing is an acceptable thing to do.

Therefore and I alluded to this before, I don't want to waste ANY resources, time, energy, or effort on women of short-term value unless the short-term value chick requires virtually no-effort to obtain AND is an extremely low-risk/low liability to bang (basically ALL 30+ childless women are high-risk, for example... the vast majority who are basically resource mercenaries among other things). I've had women offer their bodies to me recently but I turn down sex now more and more frequently these days simply because I see no future with them and/or the risk is too great. I just don't care about getting a nut given the potential risk in a worst care scenario situation.

The great paradox to this entire current mindset is that I could have never reached this mental point in my life without massive risk-taking and banging away a ton of sluts; doing all the things that I'm advocating I don't and shouldn't do anymore.

Short version: If you have an interest in having kids, figure out the circumstances that need to exist that are acceptable to you to have them; based on the lifestyle you value. Clearly and overwhelmingly feel confident why these circumstances should exist. Once circumstances exist, go big or go home on the family deal.
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2016 10:02 AM by The Black Knight.)
08-22-2016 09:23 AM
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The Beast1 Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
(08-21-2016 06:27 PM)RichieP Wrote:  ...if he currently has absolutely no desire for marriage/kids?

You could be 25, 30, 35 with no desire to settle down at all... but (I assume) this tends to change with age?

Lower energy, health problems, declining physical attractiveness, general slowing down. Maybe priorities shift from adventure, to stability.

Perhaps you should just keep going at life - building game, skills, wealth, assets, experiences, relationships etc - up until the point you get the urge to settle down.

But what if that doesn't come until your 50s, 60s? That feels like very late to the party for marriage (or committed LTR) and kids.

This boils down to being unable to accurately predict your future preferences and perspective.

My concern is, by the time I actually really want it, I might be over the hill, and wish I'd invested more in my "relationship future" while younger.

But for now, I'm totally happy having adventures and relatively short relationships, with no desire for marriage or kids.

Is it "giving in to fear" to seek a long-term partner before you actually feel ready - or is it a wise move to begin the search and find a great match before you reach your later years, almost like an investment? Or is there another route entirely?

Just wait for your priorities to shift. It'll happen eventually.

I didn't want kids nor wanted marriage. I was going to be some old woman's sugar baby while sleeping around on the side.

Total 180. I'm married no to a zero notch woman. She wants to stay home and raise kids.

Just keep maximizing your options. It's nice having a lady who I can come home to each day who has dinner ready.

With that in mind, the wife has a sunday roast (on Monday!) ready for me when I walk through the door. You seriously can't beat that.

I've been tempted to write up a datasheet on this stuff though I know there are other guys who have been married longer than me who can chime up.

Real talk:
I don't expect my marriage to be easy or something that will always be a cakewalk. I've been married for half a year. You'll always have urges at the end of the day to go and bang that big tittied chick from Infosys from Linkedin. The thing that helps me avoid straying are:

1. she cooks me dinner and does it well
2. I was her first
3. I enjoy my time spent with her
4. She's religious
5. Our social group would shun me if I strayed.
6. She follows my lead. Captain first mate dynamic.
7. Same child rearing practices.
8. Interested in healthy eating and works out regularly.
9. Doesn't enjoy late nights at clubs and bars. Likes early bedtimes.
10. No social media besides a small facebook.

Straying means throwing all of this away for someone who most likely won't deliver anything. Of all of the woman i've been with (36) she was the only one who clicked all of those buttons.

You need to define what you need from a relationship first. Once you get that, look for a woman that fits the bill. There won't be a lot. Another good thing to look for are 0-1 partner counts, parents still in first marriage, and a disinterest in nightlife/social media.
08-22-2016 11:48 AM
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Kid Twist Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
Beast, I'm always happy to read your posts, but I get more joy out of the fact that you married someone that is quality and you realize that you shouldn't mess with that. Cheers.

(btw, what age is your wife)
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2016 12:05 PM by Kid Twist.)
08-22-2016 12:04 PM
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Easy_C Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
Beast summarized pretty well what a good marriage looks like. Its NORMAL to gey an urge to stray but it goes away on its own.

Is marriage for you? The general and specific answer are both the same. If you have to ask the answer is no. One thing that is common to every great marriage I've ever seen is thay it inconceivable that the relationship was ever anything other than right.
08-22-2016 12:08 PM
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The Beast1 Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
Thanks for the kind remarks kidtwist. My wife is 28, I'm 27.

She'll probably see this but it should be said that my wife is pretty middle of the road. She's cute but not a runway model or head turner. She had a weight problem when we first met that I helped take care of. She brings a lot to the table that I greatly appreciate.

I've dated hotter women then her who don't come close to the wifely duties she does for me. Probably the reason I stayed with her was because she is excellent wife and mother material.

While a hot chick will draw you in, it's being a good wife and mother that will keep you around.

With all of that said, remember that having children is a biological imperative. We carry a lot more than physical features in our dna. Imagine dying and facing your ancestors to tell them you didn't continue the family line because you were too busy banging boundless sluts. No thanks!

Modern times have made sorting through bad women easier. Take solace that men of the past would marry and not realise the bad deal they were getting!

Shalom Alechem!
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2016 12:53 PM by The Beast1.)
08-22-2016 12:47 PM
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presidentcarter Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
How much do you value freedom? Has your desire for freedom grown or diminished over time?

Many guys start life with a real thirst for freedom, only for it to diminish greatly by their 30s at which point they become "wife hunters".

Many guys never have this want for freedom to begin with and marry at 23.

Others may experience a growth in this thrist and may not take their foot off the pedal until their 50s - perfectly fine.

The final group has a negative stigma from society - they never procreate (or marry). Many of these men are the ones with solid gold Rolexes and yachts because they didn't have to buy diapers, come home from work early, or pay for college funds. Does that make their cause less noble? Not sure, but at least they chose their own way.

I'm not sure which group I belong to, but I stay the course until something convinces me otherwise.

Also as mentioned, I believe marriage is really only beneficial for those wanting children. I've spent a lot of time around family member's small kids playing and watching them on holiday and whatnot. I really believe you need to do something like this before going down that kid road...I've seen some people around kids that "just don't get it" and treat kids like aliens - they just don't have that inner parent gene it seems.

Also relevant to keep in mind is the often cited SMV chart:

[Image: KCmPPdY.jpg]

"...it's the quiet cool...it's for someone who's been through the struggle and come out on the other side smelling like money and pussy."

"put her in the taxi, put her number in the trash can"
08-22-2016 12:53 PM
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The Beast1 Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
What president carter said, don't get married unless you want kids.

I really want kids and want a big family too. That's one of the biggest reasons to get married,

Shalom Alechem!
08-22-2016 12:54 PM
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Slam Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
@The Beast1 I would love it (and I'm sure many others would too) if you wrote up a datasheet to this, your decision to marry, how you found her, etc.

It sounds like you got a winner.
09-23-2016 06:56 PM
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Easy_C Offline
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RE: How Much Consideration Should a Young Guy Give to Marriage...
Got married at 27 to a chick 5 years younger( decent face, brunette, easily an 8/9 figure) and haven't looked back. It works because she's naturally a very caring personality and we both have the same priorities.

You got some good advice from the other marries guys here. I've jusy got two pieces of advice.

First is that you shouldn't pass up the right opportunity. Mother quality women are few and far between and you can't assume that you'll immediatelu have one at the right age. I've got an ex who wanted to get married at "about 28 or 29". Anyone care to guess how well thatd worked out? She's still pre wall and not the best example but point stands with some dudes I know as well. They planned a certain way and didn't find their match on schedule. Take it when it comes. Don't try to force it either. If you find yourself thinking about ANY issue you need to resolve to make it work then don't do it. You'll know it's right when you can't find anytbing wrong with her and your quality friends and family can't either.

Second is judge them by character and NOT by how right for you that you think they are . Most advice you'll get is fuck awful. Instead look for good mom qualities. Observe how she acts around kids(good ones will light up when interacting with children) and see if she cares more about approval from family or from others. And she shouldn't have even a trace of bitch.
09-24-2016 11:32 PM
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