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subterfuge journal
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #76
RE: subterfuge journal
(11-20-2016 10:57 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  Keys to the VIP had some decent approachers on it, free online, I sometimes watch to warm up. Cajun from LS was great and several others had a good vibe to mimic. Seems crazy to pay for pickup videos when there's so much great content for free, but whatever works. I hope you got a cheaper deal on that than retail.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't buy it just for the infields. It's a whole program on 'game' from start to finish. I'm hoping that it will help. I've read like 5 books now and made lots of approaches, but since i've only got laid once from cold approach since learning 'game' I see no other option that to keep doing whatever might help my odds.

Also, as good as the free pickup vids online are, they are typically very short. I hope that watching FULL infields from start, to finish will give me a better idea on things like just how much interest i'm supposed to show, what to talk about, and maybe give me a better idea of where i'm going wrong.

I was able to get it a lot cheaper than the retail price through some guy on reddit, so not a huge deal if it doesn't help me.

I do wonder whether i'm making life hard on myself in terms of the girls I go for. I'm like 30, but I always go for the hot 18 year olds. I'm just generally not as attracted to the girls in their mid/late 20's who I should probably be going for! I know people say it's all about 'game', but to be serious, if you were 75, you really couldn't be expected to be pickup teens in clubs with your game alone! The one night stand girl was only just 19, so I guess it's possible, but then it could have just been a stroke of HUGE luck, and I should be counting my lucky stars!
cheers
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2016 06:47 AM by subterfuge.)
11-21-2016 06:43 AM
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Post: #77
RE: subterfuge journal
What kind of clubs are you going to? Do they play hip hop music or is it EDM? I think learning how to dance would help you to have more fun and get a carefree vibe. It's good to have a fallback where you can just let loose and have fun instead of thinking about girls all the time.

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11-21-2016 06:28 PM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #78
RE: subterfuge journal
^Probably another area where i'm making life even harder for myself is that I don't really go to 'clubs' as such. Ever since I got in my late 20's, nobody I know goes 'clubbing', but instead its more about pubs and bars. Some of the bars have a dancefloor and the energy is fairly high, but it's not the same as an actual 'club'.

Funnily enough I went clubbing for the first time in ages a few weeks back and got an isntant makeout with a girl who was just 18. Good for my ego and it's fun to kiss, but It definitely seemed to be a case of the girl likely just kissing lots of guys for validation, but never intending to go home with anyone. I wasn't able to game her at all. When I re-approached her at the bar area later, she just didn't see to want to talk. Classic young girl ADHD. Eyes darting around the club, fully aware that all of the guys wanted her. I didn't know what to say to keep her attention.
11-22-2016 10:32 AM
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Post: #79
RE: subterfuge journal
quick FR from last night.

Saw a cute girl sitting by herself. Told my brother I was gonna approach her but he tried to talk me out of it. I ignored him and just sat down next to her and said ''Sorry i'm late! trafic bla bla bla'' (same opener I used on my one and only ever same night lay.) Again it went down fairly well. We chatted for a few minutes and then her friend cam back from the bar. I introduced myself to her friend and pretended that the girl I approached was my girlfriend. Both girls were friendly to me. Then my bro and his friend sat down with us. My bro talked to the girls friend and the other guy more or less just sat there being quiet.

At on point when I commented on the girls drink she asked me if I wanted to try it. (don't know if that qualifies as an IOI or not!)
After that, we spoke about tinder and she pretended that we were in a real life tinder now and pretended to 'like' me on it.

I asked her a few questions about herself but maybe came across as TOO interested in hindsight?

Soon after my bro and his friends wanted to leave. I could have maybe asked for her number but they weren't interested in joining us at the next bar we were going to, so I just said goodbye and left in the end.

In the next bar I opened a blonde girl with ''Hey, you look Swedish''. This sort of opener seems to work for people in touristy destinations but everytime I try it, I get a weird reaction. This was no different. She gave me a weird look and then sarcastically said ''Yeah, i'm swedish!'' and then walked away like i'd insulted her, lol.

Saw another girl soon after but couldn't think of an opener. The situation/her clothes etc didn't give me anything.

Then I hit the mini dancefloor. Made eye contact with a girl and motioned her towards me, but she didn't want too and gave me a look as if I was weird for thinking that I had a chance with her. Kind of scrunched her face up and looked me up and down if that makes sense.

Then another girl started backing her ass into me, but I felt a bit dejected from the previous girl and so didn't have the courage to just grab her by the hips from behind which is what most guys seem to do. Is that the correct move when a girl does that??

Had a few more beers to get some more courage.

Opened 2 tiny little Asian girls. The uglier one had a husband but was super friendly with me. The hot one was as quiet as shit and I couldn't get her to smile or talk, really. Spent a fair bit of time dancing with them though, and joking around with the uglier one

Then the hot girl from earlier started dancing really close to me. But didn't want to get blown out twice by the same girl so ignored her (at the same time, hoping that playing 'hard to get'/aloof/ignoring her would make her chase me. It didn't)

Then 2 girls cam up to me whilst I was dancing and asked me to protect them from some weird guy who was creeping around the dancefloor who apparently wouldn't leave them alone. I kind of put my arms around them and we joked around for a few minutes

Then at the end of the night I somehow found myself hugging some tall girl. She was kinoing me back, And then she started telling me how hot the bouncer was! Not sure if that was some sort of shit test, or whether she simply fancied the bouncer and wasn't interested in me. I just laughed it off and agreed that he was cute! Then shortly after I tried to pull her away from her friend to see if i could get a makeout with her, but she was a it reticent (although allowed me to move her partially the way there) and then her friend called her over and they both left.

the end.
11-30-2016 06:36 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Pretty lame weekend. Made some approaches, but just couldn't really get much past the opening as the girls just didn't seem interested in talking to strangers. I also nearly got attacked by some HUGE guy who got aggressive with me for saying 'hi' too his girlfriend. I didn't know she was with anyone. Was on her own at the bar. Not gonna let that stop me approaching but was a bit intimidating. He was about 6ft 6 and seemed a bit mentally unstable!
12-05-2016 06:17 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Last night:

Opened a girl at the bar after ordering my drinks. She wasn't particularly attractive but she was young. I said ''That's a very Christmassy cardigan!''. She smiled and told me that some guy has just given it to her. We had a small chat but there were a few silences. I feel as though it was a mixture of me not being physically attracted to her enough to try harder to make conversation and just generally being unable to think of much to say. However, for the first time in about 400 approaches, SHE kept filling in the silences. She was nice. After a few minutes I left her and joined my friends.

Then went to a different bar and fell a bit in love with the new bar girl. She had braces and glasses and a tattoos and a gorgeous face! So cute. But from what I read it's generally not a good idea to try to game girls that are working since they're paid to be nice to you? And if i flirt and it all goes wrong and she rejects me, it makes it awkward in the future since it's one of my regular bars. I just made a bit of small talk with her whilst ordering my drink.

Then went to a different bar for a bit of a dance.

I first approached some girl and roleplayed with her a bit. I touched her a bit. She wasn't actually that hot, though. It kind of fizzled out.

Then I got speaking to this massive Dutch guy. I asked him about the hot girl he was with and he said ''I met her earlier. She's travelling, too. She's single. Go for it!'' and he kind of introduced me. However, she was COMPLETELY not in to me. After I smiled and said like ''Hey. How's you're night going?'', She pretended that she coudn't speak English! So I obviously gave up.

Approached about 5 more girls at different times on the dance floor. Some when they kind of backed into me so i'd grab their hips, but then they'd kind of run away. Some i'd try the 'hand of God' type thing, but they wouldn't want to dance with me.

Then near the end there was a girl who my friend described as 'the hottest girl he'd ever seen'. She looked lie Mila Kunis when she was like 20. I wanted to approach her for the sake of it, but she was dancing in a little circle with her friends. It's not as if she was in the centre, bumping into guys. It was like they didn't want to be bothered as a group. Kind of isolated in the corner dancing by themselves. I couldn't think of an opener or anything anyway, so I didn't approach her.

Then I somehow got speaking to the forreign girl from earlier. I guess she's loosened up now, maybe from the alcohol? I called her out on pretending to not speak English. I asked her in a playful way ''Why do you hate me?'' (RSDMax uses that line a lot). We had a little chat, but i figured that any girl who would pretend to not speak English to avoid speaking to me probably doesn't tihnk i'm physically attractive, so i'd kind of be wasting my time, and ejected soon after.

Also tried to run some social circle game as my friends girlfriend was out with her friends and had joined us at this point. No luck, though.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2016 07:36 AM by subterfuge.)
12-11-2016 07:29 AM
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Post: #82
RE: subterfuge journal
When you're approaching a girl, you don't need to make some grand gesture but you gotta remember that there is so much else going on in her world. Her IG is blowing up, there's guys everywhere, her friends are dancing, people are taking shots.

What do you offer vs. all that?

How do you make her feel, what state do you bring her in, why should she stick around and small talk with you after ''That's a very Christmassy cardigan!''???

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12-11-2016 09:54 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(12-11-2016 09:54 AM)redbeard Wrote:  Her IG is blowing up, there's guys everywhere, her friends are dancing, people are taking shots.

What do you offer vs. all that?

How do you make her feel, what state do you bring her in, why should she stick around and small talk with you after ''That's a very Christmassy cardigan!''???

Yeah, it seems hard to compete with other things going on in that sort of high octane environment with other things going on unless maybe she just thinks you are as handsome as hell. But I guess 'fun' is the answer, but it's hard to know what to do/say to be 'fun' after opening a stranger.

Funnily enough, with the 'Christmas cardigan girl' she seemed to want to carry on talking and 'stick around and make small talk' as you put it. It was me who walked away as I couldn't think of much to say, plus I wasn't that attracted to her physically. (this was in a 'pub' though, so not quite as lively as the bar I went too after)
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2016 11:36 AM by subterfuge.)
12-11-2016 11:35 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Went too a house party last night and tried to pull some really hot girl who was kind of crazy and extroverted. She stripped naked in the kitchen at one point. No luck, though.

Went well at first and we were just talking and playing some drinking game together and she seemed to like me, but I realised I had to do something to change the vibe from 'friends' to hookup. I just told her I thought she was cute, but she just kind of dismissed it and wasn't interested in me in that way, I suppose.
12-18-2016 10:45 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Tried gaming a hot poledancer/stripper last night. Off duty. She wasn't working. She works in London but I met her in Brighton. She let me play with her tits but that's just because she was crazy and probably enjoys teasing guys, but my game didn't work on her. Would have been a nice way to get my 2nd bang of the year!

Tried pulling her less attractive friend later on, but still not luck.
12-29-2016 04:54 AM
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Post: #86
RE: subterfuge journal
Was about to go into a bar last night, when 3 hot girls and a guy walked out.

I looked at one of them and said ''Leaving already?!'' and she replied ''It's dead in there. We're going to xxxbar. Come with us''. I said i'd probably see her soon. Told the guys I was with that this place was dead and that we should follow the girls.

We went to xxxbar and ordered our drinks, and the girls were already sat down. The one I spoke too earlier looked at me, and called me us over to sit with them after we ordered our beers. I walked over first (my friends were a bit reticent) and I sat down next to the one who called me over and who I'd spoken too earlier.

I was thinking that she must like me, but as soon as I started speaking too her, she just didn't seem all that interested. She was OK, but the 2 girls who she was with were both stunning. One was a model. She wasn't interested in speaking much too any of us! Apparently she only dates 'hunks'.

I kept trying with the 'my girl', but I never got close to 'escalating' since she never gave me any interest once I'd sat down with her. I couldn't get her to ask me many questions or anything. Would have felt weird to start trying to touch her lots when she was kind of being a little bit cold. Ended up leaving her after 30 mins or so.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2016 07:44 AM by subterfuge.)
12-30-2016 07:42 AM
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Post: #87
RE: subterfuge journal
Was hoping to go out tonight to try one last attempt at getting my 2nd bang of the year, but feeling like shit, and not sure any of my friends are out anyway!

I daren't think about how many approaches i've made now, so I might have to start a fresh journal next year, starting from '0' approaches again so as to protect my ego!! Smile

Happy new year
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2016 09:35 AM by subterfuge.)
12-31-2016 09:30 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
OK, it's nearly 3am here. Just got back from the bars. Trying to do a quick firled report whilst it's still fresh in my head.

First bar. I see a the hot bar girl who I actually once kissed on a night out briefly, She's wearing a hot outfit as it's some sort og 'theme night' at teh bar. I say ''That is SOME outfit!''. She gives me a weird look and ignores me! I'm in shock. Why couldn't she be friendly and banter?

We then go to a bar with a dance floor. Order some beers and hit the floor!

I'm nervous and i'm with 2 guys who NEVER approach! I dance near 2 hot girls and make eye contact and wave at them. They smile and wave back. Good. I put my arm on one's shoulder and say ''Hey! You're cute. Who are you?!'' She says ''Kelly!!''. Then she says ''what's your name?''. I said ''I can't tell you?''. She says ''why?!!!''. I say ''because, if i put a baby inside you and you have my name, you'll be able to find me and make me pay child maintentance!!''. She looks disgusted and puts her hand in my face and turns herback to me, and I see her tell her friend what I said!. Before you tell me off and say that was a bad line, I got a brillliant reaction from taht same line recently. You never know what is right or wrong, because every girl is different!

Soon after, my friend tells me that teh same girl I upset is looking at me and dancing near me, but i fell too anxiuos ton flirt with her now, after seeing her reaction!

I now approac some hot girl and tell her that she has the smalleest feet in the workd!. She did. She also laughed and we spoke brielfy. She was from Hungary. Pretty.

It fizzled out. But about 5 minutes after, IO see her again, and give her my hand. She rejects me, OUCH!. fELT Bad. And then, some other girl, acting like her body guard, tells me her friend is not interested. Feeling quite low now, but determined to perseverere.

I go to get a beer and approach 2 girls at teh bar. They tell me they are air hostesses. I tell them to come and find me on the dancefloor.

I approach another hot girl and she gives me a horrible gesture. Kind of puts her hand in front of her eyes and looks disguested as if to say ''Please!! You are not in my league''

So now I see some chineses lady. She's old. About 55! But she is dancing with lots of attractive girls. She grabas me and asks me which of her friends i like as if she is some sort of madama at awhore house. I point at one. SHe grabs the girl and pushes her towares me.

I start flirting with this pretty girl. She is Hungarian. Soon we are kissin on the dance floor. Theh I move her away and finger her and play with her tits. Then she tells me she has to to and find her sister.

Then I bump into the 2 British air hostesses from earlier. They grab me and we talk. Dance a little.

Then the Hungarian I kissed comes back, and we make out heavily again.

Then I see one of the hot air hostesses who seemed to be being friednly towards me making out with some guy, Possibnly a boyfrined? Dunno. Forget about them two now.

Now the Hyngarian girl I kissed is grinding up against some big bald guy. I spot another girl and grab her and tell her I like her. She is yet another Hungarian girl. I run some game on her. Ask her all kind of shit about her life and tease her and stuff. I kino her and she, for once in my life, is blatantly kinoing me back! She likes me. She tells me that she saw me kissing her teenage friend! (I had no idea she was so young. I'm old, dont forget!)

We come close to kissing a few times, but she tells me that MOST Hungarian girls don't just kiss random guys, and it takes a few dates before you get sex, but she was also being very touchy feely. She told me she had to go. She kissed me neck and pecked me lips but refused to makeout. i got her number

Then, as I was leaving, I saw some girl on the dancefloor. I thought 'fuck it'. I just grabbed her and said ''You are cute!''. She said ''thanks!!!''. Then i Pulled her towards me. She didnt' resists. Then I just started making out with her. Then I left her as my brother was being thrown out of the club and I needed to back him up in case things got nasty

The end.

Not sure what to make of it. Making out with 3 girls, 2 of which were GORGBEOUS Hungarian girls is good. But I feel as though it was just a mixture of luck/dancefloor game/ and the crazy chinese girl who kind of enabled it. I'm mainly thinking about eh harsh rejections I got, but maybe that's just my state of mind. It was a great night although I don't tihnk it shows muxh in the way of 'improvement' in terms of 'game'
12-31-2016 10:07 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(12-11-2016 11:35 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  Yeah, it seems hard to compete with other things going on in that sort of high octane environment with other things going on unless maybe she just thinks you are as handsome as hell. But I guess 'fun' is the answer, but it's hard to know what to do/say to be 'fun' after opening a stranger.
Fun is a great smile, dancing like a manic, giving strangers high fives, pumping yourself up, ordering 3 shots then making some space and downing them back to back, etc. It's being the person there enjoying that moment more than anyone else. And trust me chicks notice. They notice fast.
Quote:Funnily enough, with the 'Christmas cardigan girl' she seemed to want to carry on talking and 'stick around and make small talk' as you put it. It was me who walked away as I couldn't think of much to say, plus I wasn't that attracted to her physically. (this was in a 'pub' though, so not quite as lively as the bar I went too after)
Talk about everything. You're in the middle of a public space. Make fun of that guy over there that looks like a prick. Comment on the music. Take her into a place where it's just you and her.

Again FUN! It's all about fun and making the most of your environment. For girls it's actually pretty nerve wracking talking to a guy. You can see them sweat beads occasionally.

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12-31-2016 11:10 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Just woke up. Don't fully remember writing that Field Report!

Surely I deserve SOMETHING for writing that at 3am....perhaps a short spell in a mental institution.

Going over it all in my head now.

I'm finding myself thinking about the rejections as opposed to the 'successes'. Working out if I done anything 'wrong' that I can actually learn from, or whether it was just a matter of the girls who rejected me wouldn't have been receptive to me no matter what my approach. 'No girls' as Mark Manson might say.

Other thoughts surround the Hungarian girl I made out with (and a bit more!) I felt as though to give myself a shot at taking her home, I had to build some sort of comfort and rapport, but she didn't really want to talk. Everytime i asked her a question, she just wanted to kiss! I managed to isolate her, but again, she didn't seem interested in talking. Not sure what the solution is there. I know it's common for girls to kiss guys, but not sleep with them, and I guess it's usually down too a lack of really knowing much about the other person, but with her, it felt impossible to break that barrier.

Also thinking about the air hostess girls. I think they were receptive, but that my general conversation skills let me down. It seems that i'm unable to really improve much in that area despite my best efforts and practice. Like it's an innate gift I don't have. I sometimes think of better responses and more interesting questions the next day, but it's too late by then Smile - Little things like even finding out about her job as an air hostess. There's probably interesting questions I could have asked based on that, but nothing sprung to mind. My other mistake was not physically escalating with them much after they grabbed me on the dancefloor. Or even verbally. Just telling her that she is hot and then see what her reaction is like would have been better than just small talk, and then just dancing near them

edit:

OK, new memories are creeping in. Nothing much to write about, but I like to 'put it all out there' so that I can refer back to it.

I made an approach on a gorgeous gorgeous girl who was sitting down as I came back from teh rest room. She seemed to be in a group, but isolate - on the outskirts. She yawned.

I approached her and asked if she was bored. She smiled but didn't really reply. There were a couple of guys in the group and I felt them looking at me. I nearly got attacked for merely talking too a girl recently who was wih her boyfriend, so I was maybe a bit weary.

I can't quite remember what I said. I think I asked her who she was with, and possibly told her I thought she was cute. Either way, I wasn't getting much back from her, and I just smield and told her i'd see her around and ejected.

Another memory is from the 2nd Hungarian girl. The one who seemed to like me, but had seen me making out with her friend earlier.

We'd been talking for like 15 minutes and she said something like ''You just want sex for one night''. I said ''What makes you say that?''

She said ''Because you never asked for my name''.

I'm thinking ''Shit....how did I forget to ask for her fucking name!!? I'm an idiot''.

But I tried to reframe it, and I said ''Why would I ask for your name? What is in a name?? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet!'' (I said it in a kind of purposely cheesy way)

She cracked up laughing and didn't mention the name thing again.

Anyway, just wanted to update with that as it made me chuckle a minute ago when I rememebred it
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2017 06:54 AM by subterfuge.)
01-01-2017 06:52 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Went out last night for a quiet beer and bumped into the chinese lady from the previous field report. She was with a gorgeous young Thai girl. Honestly the first Thai girl i've ever thought was super hot!

People always talk about how, as a white guy, you can go to Thailand and rack up a crazy notch count. I'ts never appealed to me as I don't tend to PERSONALLY find Asian girls hot (i'm into the Eastern European look with bright blue eyes and jet black hair and facial features), BUT I might have to change my mind now and put a Thailand trip on my Bucket list, because she was gorgeous!

I only spoke too her a bit. She didn't seem that interested in me, plus she spoke bad English, so it wasn't easy.

Anyway, goal is obviously to try to get one bang this year in 2017! Not feeling confident with it, but fingers crossed!!
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2017 09:55 AM by subterfuge.)
01-02-2017 09:54 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Only two approaches last night as I was out with family and wasn't trying to look like a thirsty loser getting rejected non-stop in front of family!

The 'pattern' of only being able to have a fun conversation from a canned opener/routine remains. Kind of annoying, in fact. If I open with a routine, the 'open' carries the weight of the conversation and then the girl relaxes and everything flows better and she is less guarded.

If I open in any other way (direct, indirect, situational etc) then it gets awkward quick. I find it annoying, though. I still can't just open in a normal way and make a 'natural' conersation from from the beginning. Not really sure how people do it or what they say/talk about directly after opening

This pattern has been the same since I started and is nicely demonstrated in last nights approaches.

First girl//
Were in a pub standing at the bar, and there's a pretty girl sitting down by herself across the bar. I say to my brother, ''watch this girl reject me!''

I walk over to her, sit next too her and say ''Hey! Sorry i'm late. There was a dead horse on the train track''
She says ''HAHA! Errrr.....I think you've got the wrong person!''
I say ''Come on! Don't be like that! I've been looking forward to this date!''
She says ''You're funny! Tell me you're not being serious, though!''
I say ''Ok. I'm just being a dick. I thought you were cute and wanted to say hi''
Then SHE asks ME where I'm from. At this point, she is asking me all of the typical questions that everyone tells me not to ask girls, lol. Where i'm from, what I do, how old I am bla bla bla. I make her laugh a few times and we've been talking for lkie 5 minutes+, and then her phone goes. I say ''If it's the police, tell them you haven't seen me!'' She laughs and hits me and says ''I better answer it. It's my boyfriend''. I mouth the words ''You liar!!'' to her just as she answers it. Then she puts it on loudspeaker and I hear a male voice say ''Hello, babes. bla bla bla see you soon, love you!!''
I tell her I feel sick in a jokey way and that it was nice meeting her.

A positive interaction. Fun and stuff. (but, in my mind, a result of the opener I used)

Compare that to the next mess!

Second girl//

I'm at the bar ordering some beers, and a pretty girl rolls up and stands next to me, waiting to order her drinks.
I don't want to use the same routine opener as earlier. I don't really know what to say and figure I'll just try to be 'natural'

I look at her, and instinctively smile and say ''Hey!''
She looks at me and says 'hi' back and looks away briefly.
I say, ''so, how's your night going?'' (recently banned member the6ix said that this was his usual opener)
She replies ''Fine''.
Already it all feels a bit awkward and completely different from the 1st interaction. I feel it.
I say ''are you on your own?''
She says ''I'm meeting someone''
I say ''If you're getting a cocktail, I recommend the 'blue gangster'!''
She's like ''I'm just ordering food for now''. Looks at me briefly and then her eyes wander again.
I get served my beers. I consider practicing my new rule of always telling the girl I think she's hot in order to allow herself to open up in the 1 in a million chance she's just one of them shy girls who can't be open until the guy puts their balls on the line first, but I decide against it, partly because at this point, my auntie is walking towards me to get her wine!
I say 'cya round' and bail.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2017 11:56 AM by subterfuge.)
01-06-2017 11:53 AM
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Turnus Offline
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Post: #93
RE: subterfuge journal
^^^ I love that first approach! That's brilliant. I might use that if the situation is right. Girl is sitting at the bar by herself, you just walk into the bar. Etc. Good work
01-06-2017 03:27 PM
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sterling_archer Offline
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Post: #94
RE: subterfuge journal
First girl, this was out of your control, she has boyfriend and that's it. Maybe if you were veteran like some guys here, you could potentially still go forward, still don't think about it at this beginner stage.
01-06-2017 03:27 PM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #95
RE: subterfuge journal
(01-06-2017 03:27 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  First girl, this was out of your control, she has boyfriend and that's it. Maybe if you were veteran like some guys here, you could potentially still go forward, still don't think about it at this beginner stage.

How could I have made the second interaction better, though? What's a good conversation started in bars after the open?

Operation 1 bang for the year has begun! Out again tomorrow night at a guess
01-06-2017 03:37 PM
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sterling_archer Offline
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Post: #96
RE: subterfuge journal
I don't know, I am in this same as you, beginner. When I reread second approach, it seems like she didn't had much interest in conversation apart quickly ordering drinks and getting away. When you said something, she just politely gave you few words answers just to cut short conversation.
I did same things to some people I know when they tried to chat me up and I was in hurry. You know, hey man how you doing? School god? Job good? See ya type of conversation.

Someone more experienced will surely jump in and give some advice, as I am really interested like you if there was way to salvage this second fail.
01-06-2017 04:11 PM
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Turnus Offline
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Post: #97
RE: subterfuge journal
Ya, that second approach was cringe worry. Think about. You literally walked up to her and said "hey, how's your night going"

You want to appeal to a girls emotion. Make the interaction light and fun.

Compare your first approach to your second approach. The first one you were cocky, funny, and had a great attitude. The second approach you literally said "Hey, how you doing?" (In the Joey from Friends voice).

The results of those two approaches show you which one worked better.
01-06-2017 11:01 PM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #98
RE: subterfuge journal
(01-06-2017 11:01 PM)Turnus Wrote:  Ya, that second approach was cringe worry. Think about. You literally walked up to her and said "hey, how's your night going"

That's the opener that ''the6ix always uses in his night game, and he was like supposedly the best here

(01-06-2017 11:01 PM)Turnus Wrote:  You want to appeal to a girls emotion. Make the interaction light and fun
Sure. So are yuou saying to always open using a 'joke'/scripted/routine type opener such as the 'blind date' one I used in the first interaction?

(01-06-2017 11:01 PM)Turnus Wrote:  Compare your first approach to your second approach.
Yes. That's what I already done - It was kind of the point of the post, as mentioned! Smile

(01-06-2017 11:01 PM)Turnus Wrote:  The first one you were cocky, funny, and had a great attitude. The second approach you literally said "Hey, how you doing?" (In the Joey from Friends voice)

Yes. One was a 'joke' type opener, and the other was just starting a normal conversation/being natural (I didn't use the joey from friend 'whoYOU doing'' tone, though! hhaha. Just asked her how her night was going)

(01-06-2017 11:01 PM)Turnus Wrote:  The results of those two approaches show you which one worked better

Could be, although not necessarily. It could also be that the ''how's your night going'' opener would have been fine on the first girl, and the 'blind date' opener would have still bombed on the second girl if I wasn't her 'type' lookswise or whatever. That's why it's hard to 'learn' from interactions. Too many variables. It was maybe nothing to do with anything working better, but simply the 2nd girl thought I wasn't her type (lookswise) and so no matter what i'd have said, she'd have been a bit 'cold' towards me, and would not want to encourage me by speaking too much

cheers
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2017 03:52 AM by subterfuge.)
01-07-2017 03:46 AM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #99
RE: subterfuge journal
Watched some private/subscription Willy Beck videos earlier. Amazing how easy some of his pulls are. Maybe it's to do with how he's always travelling around party destinations picking up tourists who are looking for an adventure and their inhibitions are lowered. Literally just goes upto girls in clubs, opens, then asks them the usual questions (the ones i'm often advised not to ask as they're 'boring'), talks a little about his travels, kinos, and then he goes in for the kiss. Then suggests they go back to one of their places and they jump in a cab!

Anyway, still feeling like shit (had an epic cough/cold for 3 weeks now) but hopefully well enough to go out and approach some girls tomorrow night.

Would be great to get laid once this year.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2017 05:09 PM by subterfuge.)
01-13-2017 05:08 PM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #100
RE: subterfuge journal
OK, went to a different town last night.
Immediately different, less hostile vibe in terms of the girls. It's a posher town.

I know people say you shouldn't blame your logistics etc, but I live in a rough area and It often seems like if you aren't 6ft plus and haven't got a skinhead and neck tattoos and an extensive criminal record, then girls dismiss you quickly or feel entitled to be rude. They aren't like that with intimidating looking guys, though.

Anyway, in the first bar there was LOTS of beautiful young girls everywhere. I had bad AA, although, once again, I was able to notice that the source of it was more 'my friends' as opposed to 'the girls'. I fear them watching me get rejected more than the girls rejecting me! I don't approach. Feels bad. Did I mention that there were 8's/9's everywhere!?


Next bar//
My friends are all outside smoking and there's a hot girl near me close to the bar. I open her:
''Hey, you! I need your help''
''What's up?''
''Where's good to go In this 2-horse town? I'm not from around here''
She laughs.
She asks me where i'm from and stuff and I kino her a little bit immediately. She asks my name and I tell her that I can' tell her because I don't want her stalking me on facebook. She seems to find this hilarious and is kinoing me. Then she tells me that she's married but that she's got some cute friends that are single. I tell her that she's the only one for me and hug her. She's super giggly. My friends come back in from their smoke and tell me they want to go too a different bar. I say goodbye to the girl.

next bar//
It feels like them sort of bars you see on PUA vids in Eastern Europe. once again, my friends don't want too approach, I see a gorgeous blonde girl with wavy hair sitting down and she's glued too her phone.
I open her.
''Hey! It's a great app, isn't it!?''
''What is?!!''
''Tinder!! I saw you swiping away. You can't fool me!''
''haha!! No!! shows me her phone and she's messaging her boyfriend
Pretty much a lost cause but we chat briefly. I tell her she's cute and that's why I approached her and she lights up. Genuinely pleased. She asks me questions and says that i'm cute and that she's flattered. I guess I left her better than when I met her which is better than nothing. I go back to my friends.

next bar//
My friend is at the bar getting served and there's 2 girls near him. THEY kind of open HIM (he's pretty handsome and married. The rich get richer!! Smile).
One is fairly pretty but is a little bit fat. The other isn't my type at all.
I open the prettier, fatter one.
''Hi! Are you being nice to my friend??''
''No! We're being mean to him''
''I've met girls like you before. Bullies!''
We kind of hit it off immediately and they follow us back to our part of the bar where me and my friends were prior. We branch off. The girl in the glasses is talking to my other AFC mates, and i'm flirting with the prettier (yet fatter) one.
She's asking me lots of questions. I accuse her of flirting with me and fancying me.
She plays along and sort of roleplays? ''Yeah, I think you'er amazing!''
I say ''Tell me the 3 things that you like so much about me'' (i'm just being a dick, pretending that I love myself and putting her under pressure like i'm interviewing her)
She tells me that she thinks i'm smart and a few other things.
I'm kinoing her a fair bit now. Unsure how to gage her since she isn't touching me back at all, although she hasn't left (which RSDMax says is the biggest IOI)

It's late and we all leave together, I assume to get a cab (remember we're away from out town) but than the girl with glasses mentions that she has some drinks at her place. (these 2 girls live together)
I'm walking with the prettier one. We are laughing and talking and we slightly 'fall back' from the rest of the group.

I go for the kiss. Denied!!! (she pulls away and turns her head)

I made it a resolution to be more brave in terms of going for the kiss so that I don't wake up with regrets. To be honest, It wasn't that bad. I just laughed it off and then started talking about something else that made her laugh whilst also kind of touching her and pushing her away from me in a playful manner.

We get back to their place and i'm sitting on the couch, flirting with my girl and the other girl is kinod of sitting on her own and my friends are all just sitting around not doing much, and almost immediately they talk about getting a cab home.
There's no way I can afford a cab home on my own.
They all leave the room to do something (I forget what) and the girl asks me if I'm staying or going. She's basically asking me to stay. I tell her i'm not sure.

I go for the kiss again. Success. We kiss for a bit and it's nice.

I let down my fellow Rooshers here as I end up leaving with my friends.

I feel it was basically 'in the bag' but between the skinful of alcohol, the fact that she wasn't completely my type, and the fact that I didn't want to be stranded out of town and pay a fortune to get home on my own meant that I decided to turn down the 80%+ possibility of sex and share a cheap cab with my friends.

THOUGHTS:
Fairly successful compared to usual in terms of zero bad reactions to my approaches. However, I can't pat myself on the back too much as i'm certain it's down to location.
It's why i'm so jealous of the US guys here. I'm instinctively certain that i'd do so much better over there based on what I see. Just the social willingness to talk to strangers.
I wish I could remember more of exactly what I said in the interactions since it was all positive last night. It's weird how sitting here now I kind of can't imagine being able to sustain a long conversation with a stranger and don't know what to say, but in the moment, I was on fire last night. I just remember lots of talking/flirting/and laughing on the girls part.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 07:12 AM by subterfuge.)
01-15-2017 07:07 AM
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