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subterfuge journal
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RunsWithScissors Offline
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Post: #126
RE: subterfuge journal
I know it's come up before but have you met up with any RVF forum members in your area? That could help a lot to get first-hand feedback on your look, vibe and approaches.

I think I sometimes get too serious in my thinking and it shows on my face. When I'm out I'm consciously thinking about being more playful and fun, just the hint of a smile on my face, and I've found people are more warm in response.
02-22-2017 02:01 PM
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Post: #127
RE: subterfuge journal
Could be a mix of all four. But xanax and similar drugs won't completely make you not give a damn, and if you have complex internal issues they won't magically fix your 'vibe'. Heck they can make some people more depressed if they were already negative. I doubt benzos will help massively but it's worth a try. Your resting bitch face may well be part of it too, but that's sort of under no 1).
02-23-2017 05:35 PM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #128
RE: subterfuge journal
Made out with another old girl! She was a grand-mother! haha. 37 yrs old. Only a bit older than me, though, really! She found me later and begged me for my number. Got rejected maybe 4 times before that with hot young girls.
Even though it's nothing to be proud of, It kind of makes me realise that I can still do things that my friends can't do. All of my AFC friends were just ghosts as always, and on the walk back to the cab-rank, they started asking my what I said to her and stuff as they are getting used to me getting make outs with people (allbeit, old girls at teh moment!)! - Wanting tips!, lol.
02-24-2017 08:50 PM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #129
RE: subterfuge journal
Went out AGAIN last night!

Ok. Interesting night. Both frustrating, but possibly a few positives, too.

I'm out with just 2 friends. Both AFC's but my attempts at pickup, despite generally failing for the last 9 months seem to have inspired them to try (a little bit!)

They leave to have a cigarette outside. I'm now sitting near two hot '2-sets' in close proximity. I'm desperate to open one of them, but I just don't have the balls. I think about saying something like ''Hey. My friends just left me to have a smoke. Keep me company for a minute!''. I don't have the balls, though. Partly because both sets seemed to be so engrosssed in conversation and giving me zero kind of IOS/invitations to approach/eye contact etc.

My friends come back. After a few minutes one of the hot '2-sets' get up and leave. I feel the sense of lost opportunity which inspires me to 'man up' with the other 2 set.

This 2-set is in fact a 1-set, temporarily, as her friend has gone too the bar. I notice that she is holding and checking 2 phones. Typing away.

I slide over to her and open with ''Hey! Are you texting yourself?'' It barely lands and she just tells me she's trying to find out where a certain bar is. I tell her it's basically next door. She tells me she lives here, and I tease her for not knowing where the bar is and ask her if she's been in prison for the last few years or something. She laughs.

At this point, even though i've opened her and she laughed, I find myself completely shutting up and it becomes slightly awkward. This actually happens a fair bit. I think, I notice that she is still slightly uncomfortable about talking too a stranger, and my INSTINCTS always seem to be to back away. I can't seem to help it. It's like, unless she's asking me loads of questions straight away, I feel as though it's a dead-set.

I re-ignite the conversation when her friend comes back. We small talk. She tells me she's an air flight attendant and is 21. She guess my age to be much younger, and I go with it!

Soon after, she tells me they're going to that bar. I'd told her that were were going there too, and she said ''Maybe i'll see you in there''. I said ''Cool. See ya!''

5 minutes later we leave, queue up at the bar. Suddenly the girls join us in the queue. We talk a little bit. We all enter the club together, and then the girls spot a massive group of HOT girl who they know! I'm talking gorgeous Spanish air hostesses. One STUNNING blonde Russian one. A like 6 others! They tell us to join them and their friends!! Smile

We all start dancing. I keep trying to ignite small talk with my one. The 21 year old girl from France (but she has an English accent).
We are all dancing together. The hot blonde Russian girl is basically being raped by random guys. It's amazing how creepy some of these guys are! I actually almost respect their balls, though! They are just groping her. She pushes them away. They come back 2 seconds later and grope her again.

She kind of has herself to blame, though. She kind of grinds up on random guys and flicks her hair in their face. She actually done it to me. I tried to open her on the dancefloor (I never know what to say in these situations....HELP??) and she blows me off. She's kind of rude and has an attitude in the way she does it, but she is as hot as fuck.

I chat briefly with the Spanish one, but make a dick out of myself! Basically she tells me she's Swedish. She's being sarcastic because she obvsiouly isn't, but i'm 'in my head' so much that I don't get the joke/her sarcasm, and say some words in Swedish! She asks me what i'm talking about and I call her out for not being Swedish and then she's like ''Obviously!''. I try to recover, but I feel like a complete moron, lol

I find my girl again and some guy is now creeping over her, but I can see she's doesn't like it. I step up to her grab her by the hips and pull her into me.

She asks me to go outside with her and her friend. We banter more.

We go back inside and carry on dancing together. I've got my hands on her, and she doesn't seem to mind at all.
I think this is where I fucked up, because I didn't go for the makeout at any point whilst we were kind of grinding.

HOWEVER, It was partly on purpose. I read a lot recently about how making out in the club can decrease your chances of getting laid. PLUS, I was having difficult isolating her and didn't want to try to kiss her in front of her friends since she's feel like a slut. However, lets not lie. I was also lacking balls! Classic case of not wanting to ruin a set that seems to be going ok
A few minutes after she walks past me and tells me her and her friend are going home Sad
Feels bad. She was hot and young. Like a decade younger. And I was basically the only person all night who she SEEMED to somewhat like.

I don't go for the number, either. Error again on my part.

I spend the rest of the night trying to open girls on the dancefloor, but 100% failure rate.
Lots of girls seem to dance real close and you think they want you to open them, but when you do, they look at you like you're on fire, lol.
It was a fun night, but the interesting thing is that if I hadn't have opened them girls (albeit it was a kind of awkward open) then the night would have been CRAP!
All of the girls in the group were nice to us since we were kind of WITH the other girls.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2017 05:17 AM by subterfuge.)
02-26-2017 05:16 AM
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Corollary Offline
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Post: #130
RE: subterfuge journal
Sounds like you got more good experiences with girls, and that can only help even if you didn't get exactly what you wanted.

I've noticed that girls are friendly if they don't perceive you as hitting on them. It happens to me when I come with a weak approach. It sucks to end up instant friend-zoned like that, but as you observed, it can give you an opening to hit on her friends.

And I laughed when I read "AFC." I haven't seen the term in a while. It seems like "beta" has replaced it.
02-26-2017 11:40 AM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #131
RE: subterfuge journal
(02-26-2017 11:40 AM)Corollary Wrote:  I've noticed that girls are friendly if they don't perceive you as hitting on them.

That would suggest that one should never open in a direct way or 'make their intentions clear' as Mark Manson would say. Game seems to be full of contradictions though, so I guess each person must make up their own 'rules'.

Anyway, not much to report.

Had a lame night the other night. AA seems to have come back quite bad recently. Bottled a fair few approaches on various gorgeous girls last weekend. Then made a few late night attempts and got rejected 3 or 4 times in a row and called it a night.

Then started a short term temping job, and it's next to a school. full of STUNNING 16-18 year olds! (16 is legal here, even for a 30 year old like me!) It's torture! About 80% of them are 9's and 10's in my eyes!

I made a few attempts on them in my lunch breaks, but it just felt weird.

UK girls don't talk to strangers, really. They aren't social like US girls and wonder why you are talking to them. Plus the fact that they are so much younger and I wasn't really sure what to talk to them about after opening them (''So, how's school?!!'' kind of thing seems lame), so after a few rejections, I gave up with them girls. Didn't wanna get a reputation for creeping young girls out, lol

Tried running game on a girl at that temping job a little bit, and tried teasing her a bit and asking questions about her life and stuff, but then a really good looking Italian guy started working there, and even though he didn't even make any attempt to speak to her, she was all over him! Lucky handsome mofo.

Hopefully make some more night game attempts this weekend if I can find the energy. It's all a bit draining, nowadays.

Stil got like 9 months to try to get laid in 2017, though! Smile
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2017 10:38 AM by subterfuge.)
03-09-2017 10:37 AM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #132
RE: subterfuge journal
AA has been bad recently, but made an attempt to fight it head on and took action last night

I made about 15 approaches, but lots of them were short sets, instant blowouts, non verbal openers etc, so i’ll report on the few that stick out in my head.


Approach 1 – was dancing in a bar and there’s two hotties next to me. I open with a mystery method opinion opener. (recently completed the book off of the back of a recommendation on this site). She starts to talk a little but is being quite laconic. I remember to involve her friend and high five her and introduce myself. The thread ends and she isn’t talking. This is usually where I bail, but I tried my hardest to ‘plough’. I start to make a few assumptions about her and try to tease her. She laughs, but again, she isn’t talking. I ask her what she is up too tonight and ask her how she knows her friend. I” trying my best to ‘plough’ and not let the conversation die, but it’s a bit like talking too a chair at this point. I struggle on, though! At this point they both just turn away from me and walk outside.



Approach 2 – Walk in too a different bar. Spot a hot black girl standing with a friend. I look at her, point at her and say ”I want that one!!!”. Kind of a ‘self amusing opener”. She smiles. I offer my hand out. She takes it and I pull her towards me. I say ”Do you like white boys?!!” She laughs and is like ”I guess”. I say, ”Cool. ‘Cos i’m super white….I can’t dance….I’m good at math.”.. She laughs. I say ”Who are you?!”. We speak a little bit.Do the usual getting to know you stuff. I think I threw in my ‘mystery’ style opinion opener (even though it wasn’t the open, but I think you are allowed to do that in order to help the convo along). I t felt like it was going rather well. Then some guy turned up and she looked at me and said ”I’m with him!”. haha. Big guy, too. I laughed and high fived him. He was actually friendly, and then they both went and sat down


Approach 3 – Spot another girl. I look at her and smile and just say ”hi!…I’m Chris. I’m pisces. I like long walks on the beach”. It was just what came into my head. I didn’t want to use canned openers ALL night. She laughed and introduced herself. I done some assumption stacking and also asked her a few questions about herself, but the set just never ‘took off’. She never asked me anything about myself. Don’t know if I could have done more, or whether I was simply flogging a dead horse and she would never have been into me no matter what I said/done. It fizzled out.


Approach 4 – Interesting one. I made a Field report a while back about a girl who I met in a bar in a different town – done well with, then went back to her house where we made out and she asked me if I was staying. I didn’t stay because I couldn’t afford to get home by myself as I was away from where I live and shared a cab with my friends. Anyway, I saw her again! She recognised me! I grabbed her and instantly flirted. It was easy because we actually had something to talk about and we spoke a lot about the last time we met. She accused me of not remembering her and said I was ‘a player’, lol. I was ramping up the kino LOTS. I was also thinking about my mistakes last week with a different girl where I never seeded the pull or went for the kiss – both of which I feel hurt me. So I asked her whether she had any drink at her place, trying to kind of invite myself back. I isolated her, and we carried on talking, and I went for the kiss and she turned her head, Denied. If you read the last FR with this same girl, you’ll see she done this that time as well until my 2nd attempt where she complied. We went and danced with her friends..
She was slowly paying me less and less attention. I started talking too her more attractive friend. She was very pretty indeed! Just done some light flirting. Just being fun and physical with her. Anyway, the whole group then decided to go home. I think I might have made another last ditch effort to invite myself back, but no luck!


End of night. Happy that I found my balls, I guess.
03-12-2017 06:31 AM
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Gorgiass Offline
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Post: #133
RE: subterfuge journal
Seems like you be improved over the last few months. A common thread in these approaches is that you're entertaining but don't seem to be attracting - what Mystery called dancing monkey. You need to more tension - reads like too much pull, not enough push. Push is what gets you laid.

Plowing is iffy, sometimes it's better to walk away and reengage later using some callback humor, gives the impression of a warm approach rather than cold, which is always better.

If you haven't recorded any audio you really, really should. So you know how you sound for yourself and post it here too. Tonality and inflection are everything. Get something like this - https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017086TT...+pen&psc=1 clip inside your shirt, get good at turning on and off (to conserve battery) and record some audio, if not video.
03-12-2017 11:29 PM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #134
RE: subterfuge journal
(03-12-2017 11:29 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  Seems like you be improved over the last few months. A common thread in these approaches is that you're entertaining but don't seem to be attracting - what Mystery called dancing monkey. You need to more tension - reads like too much pull, not enough push. Push is what gets you laid.

Thanks.
Hard to know if i've improved. I often seem to have alternating nights. A good night tends to follow a bad night and the pattern continues. Plus, it often seems to be more about the girls than me. i.e - Maybe i've just been lucky enough to meet less rude girls recently! Smile
With more tension and push - Do you mean things like telling her she's not my type and pretending to not be into her and stuff?

(03-12-2017 11:29 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  Plowing is iffy, sometimes it's better to walk away

I agree, and In my personal experience it's never worked. If a girl isn't into me straight away (like, within the first 3 seconds), I can NEVER get remotely close to to changing her mind.

However, that to me isn't really 'game'. Hence i'm really trying to work on 'ploughing' so that I can at least give myself a shot with the 'no girls' and the 'maybe girls'. I want it to be more than simply 'playing the numbers game'

(03-12-2017 11:29 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  If you haven't recorded any audio you really, really should. So you know how you sound for yourself and post it here too. Tonality and inflection are everything. Get something like this - https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017086TT...+pen&psc=1 clip inside your shirt, get good at turning on and off (to conserve battery) and record some audio, if not video.

I'll look into that. Probably more so that I can listen to sets myself and see what bits went well and try to remember to say it again in the future! There's been nights where I seemed to do very well (like the recent FR where I went back to the girls house) but I woke up and couldn't remember what I was talking about at all, which was kind of frustrating!

cheers
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 04:49 PM by subterfuge.)
03-15-2017 04:48 PM
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Post: #135
RE: subterfuge journal
Google Swinggcat: real world seduction 2.0 to learn push pull. Safe to say that telling a girl she's not your type or pretending you're not into her is unlikely to work well for you at your current game and status level.

I strongly suspect your tonality is full of upward inflections and other indications of supplication. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. If you're unable to meet with an experienced guy then posting the audio would give people trying to help you more insight into your weak areas than another 20 pages of writing, but your call.
03-15-2017 08:19 PM
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Post: #136
RE: subterfuge journal
I've read this thread on and off and maybe this video might help you if you haven't already watched it.




As i see you mainly do night game. I've always found that the correct venue selection improves my game the most. In the town I go out in some of the places I go I find approaching and having fun effortless but then I go to another venue and suddenly it's like pulling teeth. Most of the time I go out on my own so i can pick where and when I go which I think helps with that.

If you don't like any of the venues in the town you normally go out maybe try another town if you can get there. Also don't be afraid of the smaller towns they can be easier to pull in due to less male competition I've found.
03-15-2017 09:10 PM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #137
RE: subterfuge journal
(03-15-2017 08:19 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  Google Swinggcat: real world seduction 2.0 to learn push pull

Cheers. Someone sent me teh PDF from another pickup forum. I'm 1/4 through it.


(03-15-2017 08:19 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  Safe to say that telling a girl she's not your type or pretending you're not into her is unlikely to work well for you at your current game and status level
Yeah, I think that'd only work with a very good looking guy. I feel as though my game was decent in the last FR (comparing it too the many infields I watch) but thh attraction just wan't there. Can't 'make' a girl attracted to you if you're not her type, as they say

(03-15-2017 08:19 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  I strongly suspect your tonality is full of upward inflections and other indications of supplication. [b]It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty certain that my tonality isn't full of upward inflections at all, but i'll try to keep an eye out for it. I try to mainly use 'breaking rapport' tonatlity like JulienRSD says to do

(03-15-2017 09:10 PM)tylerdurden1993 Wrote:  I've read this thread on and off and maybe this video might help you if you haven't already watched it.




As i see you mainly do night game. I've always found that the correct venue selection improves my game the most. In the town I go out in some of the places I go I find approaching and having fun effortless but then I go to another venue and suddenly it's like pulling teeth. Most of the time I go out on my own so i can pick where and when I go which I think helps with that.

If you don't like any of the venues in the town you normally go out maybe try another town if you can get there. Also don't be afraid of the smaller towns they can be easier to pull in due to less male competition I've found.

Hey. I've seen that vid before (pretty sure i've seen all RSD vids) but can't harm to watch again! Smile
Yeah, I tend get fairly different reactions based on which town i'm in. It's not that I don't like the actual venues that I go to in my local town. I do. Just that the girls seem 'extra' difficult (as if cold approach wasn't hard enough in the UK!) Would LOVE to try to game in the US before I get too old (various infield vids AMAZE me with how friendly and approachable all the girls are compared to here!), but can't afford that unfortunately

Anyway, Until next time!! ........
03-16-2017 11:22 AM
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Post: #138
RE: subterfuge journal
Ventured out to London last night for only the 2nd time in my life. Had high hopes, but it was an awful night in terms of 'game' for me.

Not much of a Field Report to post really, unfortunately, since there's just not much to mention in terms of the interactions.

I opened a Canadian girl in a bar for my first approach with an opener about her checking her tinder when she was engrossed in her phone. I tried teasing her and stuff but she told me pretty quickly that she had a fiance. I done a fake takeaway as if I didn't want to hear another word she said once she told me she was taken. She laughed. We for a few more minutes then I left

I opened another girl in a club who also turned out to be Canadian. She had one friend with her who was busy hooking up with some random guy next to her. S he naturally looked a bit bored. I tried gaming her, 'making assumptions', asking her questions, etc, but she was just not really responsive. Fairly cold towards me. She didn't leave me, but I think that's just because she couldn't really since her friend was busy getting dry-humped so after I ran out of material I bailed on her.

I opened a girl on a Hen night. Asked her which of her friends were getting married as my opener, but I couldn't get her to talk to me, really. I made assumptions' about her and stuff, but she didn't bite at all. Was mildly awkward. Her body language was not remotely welcoming, lol

I opened a couple of older women who were some what responsive and started asking ME questions and stuff, but I didn't actually even find them attractive. I just wanted to keep the momentum going.

The only remotely positive interaction (which was also a very short one) was the second I walked into the club, going down teh stairs, and made eye contact with a pretty young thing. I pointed at her and smiled. I stopped her. Asked her who she was. Spun her around and then hugged her and she complied with everything. Smiling and being giggly. Kept saying 'who are you?!!!'' But she was on her way out as I was going in and her friends were calling for her to hurry up.

I got one of my harshest ever dancefloor rejections too, lol. Some girl in a group kept kind of half grinding against me. Not full on grinding, but dancing super close to me despite there being space on teh dancefloor. I kind of put my hand on her hip and then she spun around, slapped my hand as hard as she could, and then pushed me with all her force! I didn't really care but for the fact that my friends all saw and laughed, lol!

Sight seeing:

I did see some of the prettiest girls i've ever seen last night, though! When I first got there, there was a group of Russian girls. They looked about 17-18, and they were all 10's. All with their boyfriends.

I saw a barman who probably gets laid every night running his game which was fun to watch. Looked like he had a system/routine for banging tourists in his bar! He jumped into their photo when they were taking one, told his bar staff to 'cover him' (they looked at him like he does this every night) and then he jumped over teh bar and started chatting the girl up and kinoing her, and then got her a free drink. I wish I could have evesdropped in on his conversation to learn what he says/talks about.

I also saw a blonde STUNNER who I keep thinking about in the club.She was part of the hen night group I mentioned before I think. She had on like a sports bra and looked like a model. Gorgeous face/eyes/teeth. Young too. Some guy was all over her. I thought he'd ruined it for himself since he was so KEEN/needy? She pulled away first on every kiss. Every time he went straight back in, hands all over her. PULL PULL PULL. No 'push' at all. Just seemed super try hard. When I do that the girls tend to lose interest, so I thought he'd ruined it, but then I saw him grab her hand and march her off somewhere. Player!! Probably banged her in the toilets or something. I don't imagine she would have left her friends for the night since they were on a hen night, but who knows... If he wasn't glued to her all night i'd have been tempted to pick his brains and ask him what he said to her and stuff! He was a goodlooking fella in fairness.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2017 10:46 AM by subterfuge.)
03-19-2017 10:40 AM
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Post: #139
RE: subterfuge journal
(03-19-2017 10:40 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  I opened another girl in a club who also turned out to be Canadian. She had one friend with her who was busy hooking up with some random guy next to her. S he naturally looked a bit bored. I tried gaming her, 'making assumptions', asking her questions, etc, but she was just not really responsive. Fairly cold towards me. She didn't leave me, but I think that's just because she couldn't really since her friend was busy getting dry-humped so after I ran out of material I bailed on her.


I keep wondering if I should have been bolder with this girl, but it just would have seemed weird to start trying to touch her lots when she just didn't appear to like me.
I mean, I done lots of 'touches on the arm to emphasise a point' as i've read in the Di carlo escalation ladder, but much more than that would have felt weird based on the atmosphere. If I had have tried to pull her towards me whilst she was being kind of cold and whilst we were talking about like London or something, it would have been weird I think.
Still, maybe I need to experiment with being much bolder and using more kino even when I think it will definitely be 'rejected'?

I guess in a way I tried that on the dancefloor girl who pushed me though, lol (but then, maybe that was 'too' fast)
03-24-2017 02:28 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
I’d spent all week memorising various routines for opening/transition/attraction from the mystery method handbook so that I at least couldn’t have the excuse of ‘lack of a plan/structure’, or just plain doing everything completely wrong!

My plan was to open lots of sets and really give myself a clue as to whether the routines route would help me at all – However, kind of didn’t really get the chance to do that because the first set that I opened lasted like all night!
It was kind of weird.I was a the bar and I noticed a pretty young girl next to me who was paying for her drinks. Her purse was a Cath Kidston one. I recognised the design as I used to sell some of their stuff on ebay.

I opened her ”Hey…Is that a Cath kidston purse?” She was unusually receptive and started talking about it. This never happens
Now, at this point I often fuck up, but I thought i’d practice breaking rapport and kind of negging soon off of the open as was suggested.
I said ”I can’t talk to you anymore. I hate Cath Kidston” and half turned my back on her. She looked kind of shocked but amused. She was like ”Why?!!”.
Now, at this point i’m completely winging it and talking complete shit, but it seems to be working. I made up some stupid fake story on the spot about being ripped off and losing money from getting involved with the company. It didn’t even make sense but it didn’t seem to matter.

Then I went into a couple of mini routines asking her about her drink and what your drink says about you as a person. I also broke rapport again my insulting her for drinking vodka and going into a short story about drinking too much of it on a holiday once.
Anyway, she’s been given her drinks from the barman and says ”I have to get back to my sister! Bye!” and smiled. I thought ‘damn, I probably won’t see her again, but that was a very good interaction in my eyes”.

So some time passes, me and my friends take a seat, and then this same girl and her sister sit near us. I look at her, and re-open her and accuse her of stalking me. She laughs. At this point I fall into a conversation with her sister who is also really nice and friendly and we kind of hit it off. She is like ”I’ve heard about you! My sister told me about meeting you at the bar earlier”
After a while I go back to the original, hotter , younger girl.

BASED ON A MIXTURE OF MY OWN INSTINCTS AND THE INPUT/ADVISE HERE My main thing at the moment is to work in more kino, more sexualising conversation, and better at hooking after the open
So i’m kinoing her quite a lot at this point already. touches on the arm and stuff to emphasise a point. She asks me what I do and I tell her i’m a professional thumb wrestler and I take her hands. I use 2 hands and cheat to beat her straight away which makes her laugh.
I tell them that we are moving on and I tell them to come with us. There’s a little bit of resistance, but i’m like ”Come on Up you get! We;re going” and they come with us.

We go too a different bar. She disappears for a little while and I give her some space.
We find each other again. I kind of isolate her..
I’m giving her crazy eye contact and looking at her lips and stuff since, as mentioned, I feel that one of my sticking points is showing intent’. I also leave an awkward pause on purpose. Usually I hate silence, but I saw a vid where they mention the power of sexual tension through silence/eye contact – I got a slightly unexpected reaction and she kind of called me out on it and said something like ”why are you looking at me like that?” I just smiled and carried on talking..

Then she accused me of fancying her sister. I kind of ignored her and went into a little routine where I let her ask me any 3 questions she wants too and I HAVE to tell the truth. This was to practice sexualising conversation – So I pre-empted it my kind of saying ”It can be about ANYTHING!!…my favourite food, my porn collection, my fantasies”. She asked me a few sexual questions. I lied to make myself sound more sexually experienced. She asks me what sort of girls I like and I say ”Girls like you…but with darker hair”. She cracks up. I compliment her on her blue eyes. Then I ask if I can touch them purely for self-amusement purposes. It always makes me laugh to see peoples reaction to saying that.

We’ve been heavily kinoing a fair bit now. I’m grabbing her hips and playing with her hair and shit. Also done some dancing. I haven’t kissed her yet. I feel as though I possibly could, but i’m still unsure as to whether one SHOULD kiss when trying to pull. It seems logical, but I mainly read nowadays that you possibly DECREASE you chances of pulling if you makeout. We also weren’t isolated, and I didn’t want to go for the kiss in front of her sister and my friends and stuff.

But It’s getting late now. I’m sure I fucked up here somehow, but I don’t have any practice in terms of logistics/seeding the pull etc etc as most of my interactions are like 25 seconds long! I’m a little out of my depth here. The sisters are talking about going home. I try the Julien ‘afterparty!’ line and lie about going back to an apartment near by and tell them to come.
I maybe didn’t try hard enough or sell it enough, but they seemed insistent on going home. IN particular the sister of my target.
Maybe I should have told the girl to come back with me in isolation under the pretense of hearing me play the guitar or something. Fuck knows,

The girl says to me ”Aren’t you going to ask for my number?!!”. I actually end up giving her mine as opposed to asking for hers which is a stupid move, but I was probably drunk by now!
However, she texted me soon after.

So that’s basically it. Certainly a ‘success’ of sorts, at least by my standards! I haqve a pattern of alternating between half decent FR’s and extremely depressing ones, so expect a shocking FR next time where i’m getting drinks lobbed in my face!
thoughts? Should I have gone for the kiss? How could I have done a better job of getting her back to mine or going back to hers? I definitely feel as though I messed up there, but not sure what I should have done. I know she lived closed. I don't know if they lived together. Maybe I should have somehow invited myself back to her place
03-26-2017 06:55 AM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #141
RE: subterfuge journal
Will reluctantly post this latest interaction, lol

2-set - 2 hot blonde teenagers - Every MoFo in the bar is looking at them, but nobody is approaching so I grab my balls and go in!
Me: Hey, how's your night going? (the6ix usual opener)
Her: Fine
Me: My nights going good. Out catching up with some old school-friends.... (statement based on her answer)
Her: *nods*
me: I just noticed you from ever there and thought you looked cute. and wanted to say hi. You look Swedish
Her: No, i'm from here
Me: I was in Sweden last month, and everyone looks a bit like you. (statement/story)
Her: *politely smiles*
Me: So what are you guys up too later? (trying to involve the friend, but she is just staring at her friend, eye-coding her, lol)
Her: Not sure
Me: We're going to X-bar -
her: *blinks*
Me: you ever go there?
Her: Sometimes
Me: We go there for the cheap cocktails. Makes me feel like James Bond
Me: What's your name, anyway?
Her: Sophie
Me: I used to have a hamster called Sophie
Her: haha
Me: I'm gonna try to guess how old you are
Her: OK
Me: (I look her up and down like i'm studying her) 23?
Her: 18
Me: Shit, you're just a baby. What time's you bed time?
Her: haha
Me: What are you drinking there?
Her: Vodka
Me: (I go into a short story about being in Vegas for a friends stag doo and getting way drunk on vodka and about how I hate it now)
Her: (kind of starring at her glass waiting for me to leave! lol)

*At this point the target simply seems to be simply 'tolerating' me and hasn't asked me anything or given me much more than one-word-answers or the occasional 'lol' - And her friend has just been looking at the target the whole time. Could be shy. Could just hate me.

Not sure what to say. What to talk about, now. Mind has gone blank.

At this point, I completely go into my head as the atmosphere is now super awkward. You can literally feel it. I 100% lose any form of 'frame' here and am bordeline wanting to apologise to them for approaching them/bothering them! lol

Me: Sooooo...........yeah. OK, then. I'm just gonna.......go now. Errrr.....bye!!

And I scuttle off with my tail between my legs! Cringe factor 10!



----------------------
There was a slightly better set after that, but the girl happened to be Foreign, and so was naturally about 100x more talkative.
I opened her directly. I asked what she was up too, and rather than just saying 'not much' she just started to ramble which gave me something to work with. I told her she was cute, and then teased her for being big headed because he reaction was like ''I know, I get that a lot''. Then she started asking me questions about myself. I tried to grab her by the hips and she kind of pulled away, so I calibrated and started talking about something else, and then she went back to showing interest in me. Was going OK, but then some guy in her social circle came over and kept trying to get her to sit with him and her other friends on a table near by. I introduced myself to the guy to try to get him on my side, but he was quite 'cold'. She kind of ignored him and carried on talking to me. Then he was getting more persistent, started talking too her in Polish and then more or less dragged her away from me.

Had one final short interaction where I opened some super hot girl by using an observational opener which she replied too. Then I had the earlier interaction of the night pop in my head and I was thinking ''Ok, don't ask her name, age, where she's from, what she's up too.......err....shit, Don't know what to say!!'' so I went for broke and just told her to come and dance with me, but she was lke ''No thanks!'' smiles, and walked off
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2017 12:28 PM by subterfuge.)
04-04-2017 11:57 AM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #142
RE: subterfuge journal
Got laid!! At last, lol

AirStewardess - 21 years old. Decent looking.

I WISH I could give more info in regards to a detailed FR', but I was pretty drunk!
I basically approached a group of girls who were sitting down in a bar. I think I just sat next to the one I liked and was like ''Girl in the blue dress....What's your story?!''

Anyway, she hated me! Kind of ignored me. But I carried on plowing. Talking nonsense. I plowed long enough to stay in set for when her friend (the girl I ended up getting) came back from the bathroom. Then I moved on too her.
We started talking. I then suggested going too a different bar. They came with me. Started dancing with her. Eventually just grew a pair of balls and pulled her towards me by her waist. She complied. At that point I decided to sto being a pussy and go for the makeout. Got it.
Then it was a matter of building a little bit of comfort so that I wasn't just some random makeout guy. Spoke about some boring shit with some humour thrown in. Qualified her a little so that she didn't think I only wanted her for her looks

Then her friend wanted to get a cab which very nearly fucked things up with my girl who looked like she was leaving with her, but I was just like ''So you're leaving me?! I'm not just a piece of chewing gum that you can discard!'' And then kissed her again. Then I just pulled her towards a slightly secluded brick wall as her friend was talking too the cab driver, and rubbed her pussy a bit over her dress, She moaned.

Then I just said ''You're coming with me''. Grabbed her by the hand and marched her towards a different cab rank
Then got her back to my place. Ate her our. Boned (no condom! D'oh!)
Got rid of her a minute ago.
Happy, but I honestly wish I remember more about how I done it. I'm also angry that I didn't get my 20 approaches in last night as that was actually my goal since i've been so lame with AA recently! But She was basically the first girl I spoke too

Fair few shit tests about my age by the way!
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2017 05:16 AM by subterfuge.)
04-15-2017 05:16 AM
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Post: #143
RE: subterfuge journal
(04-15-2017 05:16 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  Got laid!! At last, lol

Nice!

Clap2
04-15-2017 10:46 AM
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Post: #144
RE: subterfuge journal
(04-15-2017 10:46 AM)Corollary Wrote:  
(04-15-2017 05:16 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  Got laid!! At last, lol

Nice!

Clap2

lol, thanks. Target is set at one more cold approach lay before Christmas!!
04-16-2017 06:13 AM
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Post: #145
RE: subterfuge journal
Well done subterfuge! Your posts have shown the hard, hard grind of cold approach night game in the UK. You kept going where a lot of people would have written you off. You reached your goal far earlier than you had hoped and so proved that you can not only meet your goals but exceed them. That is huge for your self-belief going forwards.

Since she was decent looking, have you tried to retain the girl you banged for repeat bangs? If you've got no other options for repeat bangs it can be great just to be getting laid regularly, even if by the same girl. Great for your mental health.

Just one other thing about that recent approach that led to the bang. You wrote that the girl (her friend) that you approached first didn't like you. I'm not trying to get you thinking positively in a blindly optimistic way, but while it's possible that the girl simply didn't like you, off a cold approach it is so often impossible to tell whether it's you specifically or just the girl and other factors outside your control. You have seen for yourself how random cold approach can be. Why is it that one girl literally does not even want to hear another sentence from you while her friend lets you put your dick inside her? Girls in the UK are obviously spoilt for choice, against talking to strangers even compared to other western girls (such as americans), and have their personalities messed up by fucking too many men, feminist propaganda, bring more masculine than a lot of british men, internet attention whoring etc. Tons of girls you approach will have so many options and so much shit going on in her head and in her life that she is not open to cold approach from men, period. Maybe the top 1%, semi-famous or famous guy approaching her can make her stick around, but you will see in the UK average girls with bad attitudes rejecting good looking, jacked, well put together guys all the time. Don't get me wrong it's good to improve yourself where you can improve, but there are also so many factors outside your control in such an unfavorable SMP that it's often seems like you're spinning the wheel of fortune over and over again until it randomly gives you something to work with.

Ultimately, cold approach game is a mixture of improving the factors you can control combined with the iron will to push through the inevitable numbers of approaches so that you can benefit from the inevitable randomness of the cold approach. Over time you should develop an instinct for certain factors before you approach which make success more likely, such as a certain type of girl that just happens to feel you a lot more than others, but even then there is no escape from the randomness. So keep going and try not to assume all the time that a girl's response is 100% about you. It's 100% about the approach, but nowhere near 100% about you. Too much blaming yourself for failure leads to unnecessary pain and giving up, too much blaming everything but yourself leads to lack of self-improvement. There's a sort of balance between the two extremes.
04-16-2017 04:57 PM
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Post: #146
RE: subterfuge journal
Congrats man, every time I see your thread updated I wonder if it'll be the one where you get laid.
04-17-2017 10:58 AM
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Post: #147
RE: subterfuge journal
(04-16-2017 06:13 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  lol, thanks. Target is set at one more cold approach lay before Christmas!!

I achieved this target 2 nights after the air hostess girl. She had only just turned 18 (HUGE age gap) and was like one of the hottest girl i've ever spoken too.

My personal idea of a 9-10. gorgeous eyes, amazing, slim body with nice perky breasts, broad beautiful smile, young soft skin, perfect shape face, perfect teeth, interesting/fashionable dress sense.

But she was fairly emotionally unstable (crazy) to the point that i'm genuinely concerned about the police turning up at my door and so won't go into much detail as yet. Maybe it was one of her first ever nights 'out' drinking, due to her age.

Might sound odd, but she was so cute and 'physically ideal' that my pickup journey already feels almost complete! Sounds silly to say but that's honestly how I feel at this second. I basically achieved my final goal and banged the sort of girl that I oggle at walking down teh street who is half my age and simply gorgeous who I would never have even contemplated getting. I never cared about some high lay count. I wanted a 'normal' (national average) lay count, and wanted to say I've banged my idea of a 9-10, and now I have

Even though I can't go into detail yet, I will concede that there wasn't much in teh way of skill/game. I'd put a lot of it down to luck! Despite my age and very average (at best) looks, she seemed to be somewhat into me from the outset adn we were kissing within about 15 seconds of meeting.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 04:38 AM by subterfuge.)
04-18-2017 04:31 AM
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Post: #148
RE: subterfuge journal
Wow, when it rains it pours eh? Nice one!

I've been there though... sometimes it feels like the randomness/luck factor rather than any exceptional game skill.

It feels awesome because of the success, but it also can be frustrating because there's little to learn from it, and it was just luck rather than the game skills you've worked so hard to build. It's almost like you're not as in control of your destiny as you think, when the random luck of the draw seems so strong compared to anything else. It's definitely surreal: get rejected by dozens, maybe hundreds of slightly ugly and average girls then the hottest girl you approached likes you immediately and you bang her!

It seems impossible but it has happened to me too. When lady luck sings for me I welcome it, but I'm also left scratching my head.

Your feeling that you "made it" is understandable too. The feeling you get from a stunner versus a merely average girl is... different. We all have different preferences and not every man wants to have the highest notch count in the world. Maybe take a little bit of time out to take stock of things and think of your next move.
04-18-2017 12:41 PM
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Post: #149
RE: subterfuge journal
(04-18-2017 04:31 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  Might sound odd, but she was so cute and 'physically ideal' that my pickup journey already feels almost complete!...I wanted a 'normal' (national average) lay count, and wanted to say I've banged my idea of a 9-10, and now I have

Sounds like it's time to bag two at once?

"He always wanted to drift forever, but through the American Southwest."
04-18-2017 02:03 PM
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Post: #150
RE: subterfuge journal
(04-18-2017 12:41 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  It feels awesome because of the success, but it also can be frustrating because there's little to learn from it, and it was just luck rather than the game skills you've worked so hard to build. It's almost like you're not as in control of your destiny as you think, when the random luck of the draw seems so strong compared to anything else. It's definitely surreal: get rejected by dozens, maybe hundreds of slightly ugly and average girls then the hottest girl you approached likes you immediately and you bang her!

It seems impossible but it has happened to me too. When lady luck sings for me I welcome it, but I'm also left scratching my head.

Yep, that's it. I put it down to luck. But at the same time, it's kind of mind boggling!
I was thinking thoughts like
''Was it because I wore a dark Tshirt and black Jacket? Gave me a bad boy vibe??''
''Was it because I got laid a few nights prior and was giving off lots of confidence without realising it?!''
''Was is because there was a girl in my social group that night? I usually go out with just a few guy friends''

etc etc etc

It does feel somewhat 'unearned', but screw it! She was literally exactly the sort of girl i've been dreaming about for about a decade. Ever since I felt too old for the sort of girls that I failed to get in my youth. An angelic looking teenage girl. I see them from time to time and wish that I was younger and get angry at being so lame when I was their age and actually had a shot! It's consumed my thoughts for years, and now I finally snagged one!

I'm just gonna carry on as I have been, even though I feel kind of satiated. My skill level is still presumably fairly low and I full expect to be getting rejected by 5's again on the weekend (i'm out on a stag doo!!) but I will probably care less and maybe even find it amusing!
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 03:10 PM by subterfuge.)
04-18-2017 03:09 PM
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