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subterfuge journal
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Post: #151
RE: subterfuge journal
(04-18-2017 02:03 PM)Jetset Wrote:  
(04-18-2017 04:31 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  Might sound odd, but she was so cute and 'physically ideal' that my pickup journey already feels almost complete!...I wanted a 'normal' (national average) lay count, and wanted to say I've banged my idea of a 9-10, and now I have

Sounds like it's time to bag two at once?

lol, the problem is that girls still don't like me in general! I have enough trouble getting 1 average looking girl which is why getting this teenage stunner is so confusing.

But I can't kid myself that it means anything. I didn't develop TylerRSD game overnight. I was the same person when I pulled this gorgeous girl as I was the night before when I was getting warpigs ignoring my opener! And so threesomes are out of the question! It's not even something I especially desire
04-18-2017 03:13 PM
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Post: #152
RE: subterfuge journal
(04-18-2017 03:09 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  Yep, that's it. I put it down to luck. But at the same time, it's kind of mindboggling!

It does feel somewhat 'unearned', but screw it! She was literally exactly the sort of girl i've been dreaming about for about a decade. Ever since I felt too old for the sort of girls that I failed to get in my youth. An angelic looking teenage girl. I see them from time to time and wish that I was younger and get angry at being so lame when I was their age and actually had a shot! It's consumed my thoughts for years, and now I finally snagged one!

I know the "unearned" feeling. With one girl it feels like I am wading through liquid concrete and I get nowhere, but with the next girl it's like a knife through butter, doing the exact same thing. Like you I have asked myself questions about what I was doing differently when I had successes vs the failures, and I can't really find any definitive answers. I think success in game is a mixture of playing the numbers to find a girl who is at least receptive to you, then not fucking it up (pulling to your place, escalating smoothly). In the middle there might be some "maybe" girls that you can with a lot of effort and skill push into "yes" territory, but those are often not worth the effort. It depends on how much extra work you have to put in for those girls and whether you think it's worth it. Because as you've experienced you can get super hot girls just by playing the numbers and escalating smoothly.

I think you just hit a "yes" girl and escalated well. I know the feeling of it being unearned but I disagree that it is actually unearned. You were the one who pushed yourself to do all those approaches and went through the pain of what seemed like endless rejections and dead ends. Without those you would have never have found the two girls you banged. For that you deserve great credit. You made it happen, no one else. Take full credit for it, it will help your confidence during the tough times that follow. You have first hand evidence that you can pull hot girls from cold approach. That is priceless going forward. You said yourself you have fantasized about getting this kind of girl for years and years up to a decade! You did it.

I know the feeling of being pissed off at myself for being so lame when I was younger as well. In high school and college, I was totally BP and scared to escalate, so even when I had opportunities with hot college girls where they did everything to give me a chance to escalate, I blew it. Now that I'm older, I don't have the access I had in college so I have to create it from cold approach, which is much harder. The upside is I am at least aware of game and how to close properly. I just wish I had known all this when I was younger. Things were also a lot different back then with genuinely nice college girls, no smartphones. There's nothing we can do about it now though and you are an example of someone making the absolute best of it. You couldn't bang girls like you just banged when you were younger but now that you know game you went ahead and did everything you could and got the result. It's easy to beat ourselves up but you've done everything you could. When I was in college I still believed in what my family told me I should do, romantic movies and all that shit, mainstream media etc. I try to tell myself that there was nothing I could do at that time to change my mind. I had to discover that for myself when I noticed a consistent pattern and realized "something is not quite right". The map I've been given doesn't match the territory. From then I discovered game.

If you're raised in an environment that shapes how you think and behave, it can take a long time to recognize the bullshit because it's so deeply embedded within us. It's normal to be pissed off that you hadn't known game sooner, but the time you discovered game is the time you discovered it, and that's that. You can't expect yourself to be RP and game aware when you're just a kid. We're all clueless growing up.

As men we're lucky that we can at least change our destiny past 30, while women decline whatever they do. It may be a bit later than you would have ideally wished for, but you can still get the hot college girls at your age and as your game gets better even improve in your quality and quantity.
04-24-2017 01:31 PM
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Post: #153
RE: subterfuge journal
Interesting night.

I’m about 80% sure I saw the crazy teenager from my layreport within about 5 minutes of being out! Living in a small town sucks! I made eye contact for a split second and looked away but pretty sure it was her.

Anyway, last night was so good and interesting because I was able to ‘hook’ so many sets compared to usual. Felt brilliant.

I was less ‘routines’ based but kind of copied JulienRSD and relied on tonality and charisma(?). So I was just asking chode questions to open, but due to things like facial expression and tonality, I was able to hook most sets. Also a few canned lines and canned replies to predictable questions to help me along.

I was out with a friend of mine who I haven’t seen in a few months.
This MoFo is model tier good looking!!
Not much game, but has always had girls throwing themselves at him and has a high lay count with hot girls. I wondered how it would effect my night, being around someone who has much much higher 'value', at least initially.

Anyway, it was so cool to notice that he could tell I was better with girls! Made me realise that I HAVE got better

First set we went too a bar and it was SUPER quiet, but there were 2 gorgeous young girls sitting down by themselves. I just opened them with ”Is it always so busy in here?!! I feel overwhelmed!” They both laughed. Then I just jumped into talking about what they were drinking and about how you can tell a lot about someone by their drink, and then got their names and ran a small mini ‘routine’ from one of the girls names and got her laughing and it turned into a very solid interaction after a few minutes. I kind of dominated the conversation and my handsome friend was just an onlooker and became a bit invisible. It was very early and we decided to leave

The second we left the bar, my friend said ”That…..was…..amazing!!. You’ve got some skills with the girls!”. I just played dumb/indifferent, but inside I was super happy.

Basically, there were lots more interactions like that.

In the next bar there were 2 18 year old girls next to me and I just grabbed one of them and said ”I like this jacket! Looks like what the high school Jock wears in American Rom Coms” (was like a letterman jacket?) She laughed and again we fell into a conversation. Played around. Done a little thumb wresting routine when she asked about my job. IN fact, this was was going very well indeed which is why I was shocked when they just left quiet abruptly after about 5 minutes to go for a smoke outside. I thought they’d have asked us to join them or something. But I also didn’t want to follow them around and look needy, so I left them too it and unfortunately didn’t see them again.

Again, my friend was like ”Dude! That was sick!! I’m gonna get you a job at my trading firm. If you can do that with girls, you can sell stock!”. It’s weird hearing him say that because this guy has a very high girl count and comes from a different world to me (scarcity) in a way. He’s had a lifetime of validation and positive reference experience,

I done a few more sets. Only one was slightly awkward. I just went and sat next to 2 gorgeous young girls and was like ”What ‘s going on here?!! You look like you’re waiting for a your tinder dates”. They laughed and we had a little chat, but one of them kept shit testing me about my age. ”You look kind of old”. It actually hurt, lol. I’m sensitive about age because, as someone who missed out on so much fun with girls in my youth, I feel the ‘ticking clock’ more than most! I just agreed/amplified and was like ”Yeah, i’m super old. I could be your dad! Look at my crows feet!!” and got close too her face. She laughed. After a few minutes I could tell it wasn’t going anywhere and I used MaxRSD lines like ”Do you hate me? Is it because i’m white?” kind of stuff. I bailed after a few more minutes.

Then I was at the bar and made eye contact with a girl and realised I sort of recognised her. I just grabbed her and said ”You! Come here. Introduce yourself to me. You look familiar”. She told me that I kissed her friend about a 3 months back! She was Hungarian. So was her friend. We spent the next 5 minutes or so basically talking about that night, trying to piece it all together. I started accusing her of fancying me and being like, ”Shit, I remember you now! You kept trying to molest me! You’re weird. I need to watch out for you!” Then she leant in to kiss me. After last weeks success, I thought i’d re-use my trick of pulling away and not giving her the kiss. Again, it seemed to work and made her chase me more. Then we made out. She was (in my opinion) a horrible kisser! And so was the other Hungarian girl I kissed a few months back! SUPER aggressive and all tongue and just awkward. Maybe it’s a Hungarian thing. I usually like kissing, but this wasn’t much fun, lol.

She went back to her friends but was still close by. I was maybe a bit drunk now and wasn’t 100% sure what I should be doing. Didn’t feel it was right to chase her around so I just chatted to my good looking friend who was now basically clapping at me, lol. She came back, but it was late now and she just said she was going. I can’t remember if I tried to get her to take me with her or anything, but if I did, it didn’t work! ?

I didn’t want the night too end. I’d say it was one of my most successful nights. Ironically much more ‘successful’ than some nights where i’ve actually gotten laid if that makes sense!. Shame I wasn’t able to properly capitalise on any of the interactions, such as the one with the 2 teenage girls in the letterman jackets, but do feel as though it was a good night to reflect upon.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2017 05:24 AM by subterfuge.)
04-29-2017 05:08 AM
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Post: #154
RE: subterfuge journal
I've not updated this thread in quite a while! Nothing really to report.

Banging that smoking teenager seemed to take away some of the urgency I felt and i've found myself not obsessing over pickup/getting laid so much, however, i've still been approaching when i'm out!

One appraoch from the other night starts with a question to the readers.

Q: Does a girl telling you she finds another guy hot mean she's into you and it's a shit test, or does it more likely her way of turning you down once she senses that you're into her?

I was in a bar with a friend of mine who, unfortunately at this point was shit-hammered and borderline embarrassingly drunk. So I go solo and see a gorgeous VERY young girl, with some handsome young guy. I assume he's banging her. I overhear them speaking and hop into their conversation, and they're immediately friendly.

We start to chat as a group. I can't remember how I found out, but it turns out she's single.

My drunk friends starts talking to the guy, and now i'm sitting opposite the girl. I'm finding it hard to think of things to say. It's not awful and there are moments of 'fun' and laughing, but i've maybe regressed a little. I was trying to remember canned lines i've read. Trying to think of fun topics to raise etc. There was too much ''so, where did you go to school', ''what's it like where you work?'' type stuff going on, and I couldn't seem to work out what to do.

Anyway, despite that, at one point we were talking. I was looking deep into her eyes. I should mention she was hot as hell and a dancer. Just turned 18 2 days ago. I'm in my 30's, but since my last lay, I try not to let that stop me!

She mentions being strong for a certain dance move and I say ''Bullshit. You got no muscles, little girl!''. She laughs all giddy and then says ''fell my muscles''. She seems very comfortable with this and at this point I thought I potentially had a shot?

Then soon after, she mentioned studying dance in college, and I grabbed her, and we laughed as I pulled her around as if I knew what I was doing in terms of classical dance!

After that we carried on talking about a few things, which is when she started talking about how good looking the barman was. (He WAS handsome, lol) I immediately felt like shit, but remembered the basic game principle and agreed and amplified. I ws like ''Yeah! I'd bang him! You want me to get his number for you!!?'' She laughed, but I still saw her trying to catch his eye.

We carried on talking, but at this point, I was unsure of how to 'make the move'. How to go from random conversation with a girl who has possibly showed 'some' interest/compliance. And the fact she'd mentioned the hot barman also made me quetsion whether it was pointless and would have looked socially unaware. I was stumped. Change the topic to something sexual? Just make a statement of intent. Either way, I messed up, and fairly soon after, they left. The GUY asked for my facebook lol! (we'd bantered at various stages throughout the night. He IS straight, lol. Just looking for new friends)
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2017 05:48 PM by subterfuge.)
06-23-2017 05:45 PM
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Post: #155
RE: subterfuge journal
On the dancer, at least from reading, it seems like you're getting a lot better. It could have been either but she was a fresh faced 18 year old and probably a bit excited by the venue: drinks, hot guys etc. She tells you to feel her muscles, hell yeah I think you had a shot. You handled the barman thing really well. At that age they are naively dumb and seem to be a bit more into looks or what they instinctively find "hot", plus he is a bartender so naturally has some status in that environment. I can understand why it would have thrown you off, what would have bothered me is her trying to catch his eye if it was genuine. So I guess you kind of "froze" at that point, like a deer in the headlights, at the point of "Right, now how do I actually DO this?" All I can say is, I've done this loads of times man, like even if I think I have my logistics sorted every situation is different and you have to be dynamic and roll with the punches. Quick logistical questions like where is she staying, who did she come here with, does she have work/school tomorrow etc. are often necessary even if boring. Had it tons of times where a girl is even literally coming to find me at the end of the night to tell me she's going, kind of lingering around, and I just freeze, and in seconds... a near guaranteed bang turns into nothing. I once was at a house party that was on the street right next to mine so easy as hell logistics, social circle (I was good friends with the guy who was throwing the party), and the main girl I'd been talking to all night on and off (she had to tend to some of her drunk friends and I was with other friends etc.), she came at the end of the party to say her friends were leaving and what I was doing now. We were both buzzed, 1am, I froze and said "I don't know". This happens more with the cutest girls and the ones you particularly like because they send your mind racing so you can't think. Chalk this one up to experience man, shit like this literally HAS to happen however cringeworthy it is in the future. After spending days kicking myself I decided I had to be more on point with my logistics, pulling and killer instinct (end game). This led to two bangs in the next few weeks, one of which ended up being LTR.

From the moment she told you to feel her muscles I would have been using half my brain to figure out the logistics of actually pulling her home. After that it's all about doing it calmly (easier said than done) and whether she complies.
06-24-2017 07:13 AM
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Post: #156
RE: subterfuge journal
Hey, Skank!
Always nice to read your posts.

I feel as though before the whole logistics side of things needed to be brought up, I still needed to actually make some sort of a move? I felt as though I was still way too much of a stranger and also convinced she had very little interest in me, even after she asked me to feel her muscles. I just don't think there was enough flirting or intent at that point. I'm not certain she knew I even lked her! Dunno. But I certainly need to get braver at making my intent really clear I think, if only for my own peace of mind.

I mean, I'd almost rather wake up in the morning thinking ''Shit, I really embarassed myself when I lunged in for the kiss in an uncalibrated way and she was completely taken aback and shocked and 100% uninterested in me'' than ''Shit. I think there's a chance she liked me, but I just never really made any sort of a 'move' other than just being fun and friendly with a little kino thrown in. I'll never know, now''.

Interestingly enough , she added me on facebook last night. I guess she maybe asked her guy friend for my name or something?

I messaged her and mentioned going out for a drink, but she didn't really 'bite' so not sure where I stand.

Still relatively happier now knowing that I must have made some sort of impression on her. Her first message mentioned how 'fun' i was.

Would be AMAZING to bang another hot teenager young enoguh to be my daughter and completely out of my league in terms of looks, lol

Even though i've seen about 200 infields, I might make a document this week and really study them all again in depth, and literally write down what is said/done by the PUA in the moments leading up to each 'transition' of an interaction.
Like, before going for the kiss, before intitaing kino, etc etc
See if I can get some good mini 'routines/lines' to help me along.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 08:52 AM by subterfuge.)
06-25-2017 08:48 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
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(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 11:52 AM by subterfuge.)
06-25-2017 11:36 AM
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Post: #158
RE: subterfuge journal
Just one approach on a quite Sunday last night. Went too a bar and there were a group of 3 fairly hot girls sitting outside. I opened them and asked how their night was going. They were all fairly unresponsive. I commened on the drink of the girl nearest me and tried to be a bit playful, but she kind of ignored me, lol. 2 of my friends were just looking on at me watching me fail which made me feel a bit awkward! I tried to game to the other, hotter one and asked where she was from and mentioned she looked Swedish. She said she 'gets the a lot' - then the conversation just stalled and they began talking amongst themselves with fairly closed-ff body-language, so I just bailed.
06-26-2017 02:07 AM
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Post: #159
RE: subterfuge journal
Approach on girl in my local pub down the road.
She was with a friend at the bar. I opened them whilst ordering my beer. Went with the cajun 'do i look lke a drug daeler to you?' opener. She looked slightly confused and said 'not really'. Eplained that a few people had asked me for drugs that night. She wasn't that responsive. Tried to carry on the conversation. Asked her name, age, where she was from. Then started to run ou of things to say. Made an observation about her drink and her clothes. Nothing seemed to 'stick' and she kept trying to get back too her friend so I bailed before I made her feel too awkward, lol
06-28-2017 08:42 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
edit: unable to delete
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2017 04:48 PM by subterfuge.)
06-29-2017 04:32 PM
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Post: #161
RE: subterfuge journal
Quiet local pub last night

Approach1:
me: Hey, I'm Sub! What's up?
Her: Not much
me: Quiet in here tonight
Her: yep
me: What's your name?
Her: Why do you wanna know my name?
Me: So that I can forget it later on
Her: haha. Funny. I'm not interested though. Sorry
Me: Ok. see ya


Approach 2
Me: There she is!
her: Do we know each other?
me: Not yet. I'm sub.
her: hi
me: what are you up too tonight?
her: Just waiting for a friend. You?
me: Just felt like a beer. What's your name?
her: Mila
Me: How old are you?
her: 22
me: You look like you're a hairdresser or something (trying to 'make assumptions)
her: lol, no. What makes you think that?
me: Dunno. I know hairdressers!!
her: I work in insurance
me: Ohhhh...exciting! (everytime I delve into why a girl does her job or ask her questions about her job orwhatever, I get a bad reaction as if i'm boring her to tears, so basically ignoring that thread here)
RUNNING OUT OF THINGS TO SAY HERE!!
Me: What are you drinking there? Looks like a magic potion or something
Her: lol, It's a cockatail.
(I couldn't thnk of what to say at this point, but she saw her friend anyway and bailed)
06-30-2017 11:22 AM
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Post: #162
RE: subterfuge journal
Aweful, demoralising night!

Don't want to write out the whole script, but I took on the advice of my fellow posters in regards to being more direct.

Basicaly, my opener on about 5 girls was:

Hi, I know this is random, but you are cute! i'm sub!

Her: Yeah, Not interested. bye!!!!!!!

)))))----------------

I honestly feel so low it's not even funny. Every tall, handsome guy in there was having a field day. No 'game' required!

Give me a few weeks. I'll get over it Smile
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 08:23 PM by subterfuge.)
07-01-2017 08:23 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
I was slightly drunk when I wrote that last post and forgot to mention the main harsh rejection which probably brought my mood down so much.

It was a dancefloor. Girl is dancing fairly close to me. I approach and dance near her and I opened with something like ''Hey! What's up?''. She kind of acknowledged me, but didn't reply and kind of half turned her body away from me. I touched her on the shoulder (people say I have to kino early and assume attraction) and say ''Who are you here with?''

She goes ape shit and shouts ''Get your fucking hand off me! Go away!''


To make it worse, my game denier friend was there to witness it and found it highly amusing, lol. I pretended to laugh it off, but I was just super pissed inside!

I'm wondering if maybe dancefloor approaches are best suited to the better looking guys, or at least on girls who are BLATANTLY giving you IOI's? I've had a number of fairly humiliating dancefloor rejections now!

MaxRSD says to just dance around and have fun on the dancefloor. He says he sometimes opens girls with a comment starting with ''I LIKE'' (''I like your dress'' or whatever)
Is this something you guys also advise?

Anyway, Will stick to mainly bar approaches thsi weekend.

I've felt very low for a few days after this past weekend and wanted to just stop approaching for a while, but at this second i'm thinking ''It really can't get much worse than that, so screw it. Get back on the saddle!''
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2017 11:53 AM by subterfuge.)
07-04-2017 11:52 AM
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Post: #164
RE: subterfuge journal
Ok I read a bunch of your posts and it seems theres a pattern.

1. it seems the girls are blowing you off early and that means theres something wrong with your vibe. and thats prob because you've been watching too much RSD. that stuff is trash, and those guys are losers.

2. quit watching rsd.

3. you don't need to do 5 million approaches. once you get comfortable and loose, start focussing and tightening things up.

4. loud clubs and bars are prob the worst places to pick up girls at. just saying. use common sense. some girls are there for attention. some are there for fun. some shoot guys down as a sport, especially the guys using obvious approaches like yours. come on man

5. rather than approaching a million times, which you proved you can do, apply more of a sniper type game, and study the field a bit more, quit using the gay ass canned lines and be more genuine, develop your own voice and personality and learn to carry on a conversation.

6. you've done well with regard to approaching a lot, getting your reps in, and the "reference experiences" to use rsd terminology. that's good.

7. go out alone

8. be comfortable being alone

9. go to places you actually enjoy being in rather than simply being there for the girls. like a place that has good music that you can relax in , etc. if you like playing pool

10. if you insist on "club game" there should be minimal talking involved. its loud in there. a lot of animalistic stuff. finding someone who makes eye contact with you and then try pursuing that. going up to a million girls is a losing game. you need to be smart. for girls to look at you you need to have a good vibe, which means being super comfortable, smiling, unconcerned, et cetera. most guys picking up girls at clubs look super thirsty and give it away. you need to be mysterious, and be having a good time and it helps to know people. get to know the staff and get the club on lock so to speak. inotherwords, work smarter, not harder.

11. quit bullshitting with bullshit conversation. its why you keep running out of things to say. be present. sometimes no conversation is necessary. be cool ya know.

12. but at least youre trying, don't give up. later you'll look back and thank yourself for doing all that hard work and realize you don't have to do all that crap anymore.
07-06-2017 07:19 PM
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Post: #165
RE: subterfuge journal
(07-04-2017 11:52 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  I was slightly drunk when I wrote that last post and forgot to mention the main harsh rejection which probably brought my mood down so much.

It was a dancefloor. Girl is dancing fairly close to me. I approach and dance near her and I opened with something like ''Hey! What's up?''. She kind of acknowledged me, but didn't reply and kind of half turned her body away from me. I touched her on the shoulder (people say I have to kino early and assume attraction) and say ''Who are you here with?''

She goes ape shit and shouts ''Get your fucking hand off me! Go away!''

The dancefloor is for dancing, not talking.... I would ignore anyone who asked me what's up if im dancing to a song i like. Cos it's like ok "what do you want?? I can tell your vibe is needy and scarce. you need to chill out "




To make it worse, my game denier friend was there to witness it and found it highly amusing, lol. I pretended to laugh it off, but I was just super pissed inside!

I'm wondering if maybe dancefloor approaches are best suited to the better looking guys, or at least on girls who are BLATANTLY giving you IOI's? I've had a number of fairly humiliating dancefloor rejections now!


... you dance on the dancefloor.... if you vibe with someone on the dancefloor it should be over the music, no?? or if they look like they are ok to be bothered, but you need to have a plan, like dance with her rather than talk with her ya know.



MaxRSD says to just dance around and have fun on the dancefloor. He says he sometimes opens girls with a comment starting with ''I LIKE'' (''I like your dress'' or whatever)
Is this something you guys also advise?

No, dont listen to that moron. If you need to say something on the dancefloor , then make sure its genuine, not just because fuckboyrsd slave told you to do it. Who cares about her dress. Just dance and shut up.



Anyway, Will stick to mainly bar approaches thsi weekend.

I've felt very low for a few days after this past weekend and wanted to just stop approaching for a while, but at this second i'm thinking ''It really can't get much worse than that, so screw it. Get back on the saddle!''


Yes , get back on, but don't keep repeating the same shit that doesn't work. the thing about appraoching is you get immediate feedback. If you get bad, horrific violent feedback, you need to adjust something
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2017 07:32 PM by Lights.)
07-06-2017 07:28 PM
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Lights Offline
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Post: #166
RE: subterfuge journal
(06-30-2017 11:22 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  Quiet local pub last night

Approach1:
me: Hey, I'm Sub! What's up?
Her: Not much
me: Quiet in here tonight
Her: yep
me: What's your name?
Her: Why do you wanna know my name?
Me: So that I can forget it later on
Her: haha. Funny. I'm not interested though. Sorry
Me: Ok. see ya


Approach 2
Me: There she is!
her: Do we know each other?
me: Not yet. I'm sub.
her: hi
me: what are you up too tonight?
her: Just waiting for a friend. You?
me: Just felt like a beer. What's your name?
her: Mila
Me: How old are you?
her: 22
me: You look like you're a hairdresser or something (trying to 'make assumptions)
her: lol, no. What makes you think that?
me: Dunno. I know hairdressers!!
her: I work in insurance
me: Ohhhh...exciting! (everytime I delve into why a girl does her job or ask her questions about her job orwhatever, I get a bad reaction as if i'm boring her to tears, so basically ignoring that thread here)
RUNNING OUT OF THINGS TO SAY HERE!!
Me: What are you drinking there? Looks like a magic potion or something
Her: lol, It's a cockatail.
(I couldn't thnk of what to say at this point, but she saw her friend anyway and bailed)

all this banter is so contrived and obviously does not work at all, so why continure with it?

do you even like this girl, why did you approach her? do you even know why? who cares how old she is?!!!! ask her something you want to know about !! be cool .... don't interrogate?!

if you're gonna be playful with her with the "there she is!" bs, then go on and follow up, dont interrogate her about her life. you don't even know her.

this shit is all about attraction and animalism and fantasy. so try to use your imagination and keep it on the playful tip. watch the movie swingers and see vince vaughn.

if you see a girl you like, really pursue her, get intimate with her, get sexy. be in the moment and feel the vibe. you are doing the canned lines garbage and are all in your head and thats why you are totally un self aware.

Lets see SUPTERFUGE, the guy we all know and like, lets get some of that authentic personality. we don't want the autistic fucks over at rsd 's personality, we want supterfuge!!
07-06-2017 07:41 PM
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Preston Blood Offline
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Post: #167
RE: subterfuge journal
Quote:9. go to places you actually enjoy being in rather than simply being there for the girls. like a place that has good music that you can relax in , etc. if you like playing pool

I agree with Lights to an extent.

Part of picking up girls in my mind in these scenarios is being in the right place around the right people and having a really good time, it makes it 10X easier.

Instead of just being there "to get laid".

You can still do it from that angle, it just seems like it's going to be more of a constant uphill battle with alot more approaches, alot more rejection, alot more rudeness, alot more nastyness, and alot more effort to succeed.

It seems like depending on the person it can be hard to find or develop a situation like this though.

I wouldn't beat myself up about girls being dicks either even though I know that's easier said than done. Sometimes it might be you, but sometimes it just seems like you are in the wrong place with the wrong girl / s.

Cause find the right girl in the right place and that same stuff that got you told to fuck off 15 times in a row, can suddenly be working like magic.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2017 10:24 PM by Preston Blood.)
07-06-2017 10:21 PM
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Post: #168
RE: subterfuge journal
(07-06-2017 07:41 PM)Lights Wrote:  all this banter is so contrived and obviously does not work at all, so why continure with it?

do you even like this girl, why did you approach her? do you even know why? who cares how old she is?!!!! ask her something you want to know about !! be cool .... don't interrogate?!

if you're gonna be playful with her with the "there she is!" bs, then go on and follow up, dont interrogate her about her life. you don't even know her.

this shit is all about attraction and animalism and fantasy. so try to use your imagination and keep it on the playful tip. watch the movie swingers and see vince vaughn.

if you see a girl you like, really pursue her, get intimate with her, get sexy. be in the moment and feel the vibe. you are doing the canned lines garbage and are all in your head and thats why you are totally un self aware.

Lets see SUPTERFUGE, the guy we all know and like, lets get some of that authentic personality. we don't want the autistic fucks over at rsd 's personality, we want supterfuge!!

Regarding not interrogating her and 'who cares how old she is?' type stuff, can you tell me what you talk about and say to girls that you approach in a bar? Like a typical open and 1st minute or 2 of a conversation?

''if you see a girl you like, really pursue her, get intimate with her, get sexy'' - Are you saying to just be more direct and tell her I tihnk she's hot at the open? I mean, I can't 'get intimate and sexy with a girl' if she's not attracted to me unless I wanna get maced in the face, so i'd need to 'build attraction' somehow first?

Like, I now know to not ask a girl her age. Can I ask her what she does or fun, maybe?
ps - I'm being so specific because otherwise, I know exactly what will happen.
In my next FR, i'll be asking girls who they are here with or whether they can cook or whatever, and you'll say ''Don't ask girls that'' kind of thing ad tht could probably happen for anot 1000 FR's unless I know what I AM supposed to be talking about etc, so I'm trying to save time


Or do I just open direct and initiate heavy kino (get sexual/intimate as you say) straight away and just hope that she is receptive?





cheers
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 04:26 AM by subterfuge.)
07-07-2017 03:57 AM
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Post: #169
RE: subterfuge journal
Going too a wedding reception at a hotel tonight - Guess i'll try my luck with each of the bridesmaids and any other attractive girl I see!
07-14-2017 06:38 AM
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Post: #170
RE: subterfuge journal
Forgot to post a FR from teh wedding, but was raelly n othing to write about.
Of all of teh 150 guests, there were like 4 targets (young and hot and not with their partner)
Tried my luck with all 4, but didn't get anywhere. They were polite and stuff because it was a wedding (so no super harsh rejections) but none were 'into me'. One of them ended up kissing some super handsome dude who she actually approached on the dabcefloor which hurt a bit, but that's life

Should be going to a big beach BBQ this weekend. Hopefully there'll be girls there i've not yet met who I can try to 'game'
07-18-2017 08:58 AM
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Post: #171
RE: subterfuge journal
Made 6 approaches last night

Can't be bothered to write out more scripts. Was just trying to be 'fun' and non-needy with my openers and general vibe.

Of the 6 I got 3 fairly positive reactions

but of them 3, 2 were clearly not sexuallly interested in me. They were nice and polite, but I wasn't their type

Then with the remaining 'positive' girl - I thought I was geting IOI's from her, but after a while of talking/teasing/bantering I tried to escalate and get more physical (kept touching her to make points and touched the small of her back) but she kind of went a bIt cold after that - I assume as her way of saying ''Lets just be friends'' kind of thing.

Leaving 2 harsh rejections ''Go away! I don't talk to randoms'' kind of replies (after fairly neutral openers)

And one polite ''Sorry, i've got a boyfriend'' after trying a direct approach on a hot yong thing

NEXT!
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2017 10:03 AM by subterfuge.)
07-20-2017 10:00 AM
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Post: #172
RE: subterfuge journal
When you're stuck:

"I swam with dolphins last year."

...then bull shit about how you swam with dolphins. Chicks love dolphins.

Also, you're thinking about "game" too much. Just bull shit. I've said before on here, see if you can get rejected. Eliminate your fears by embracing them.

"The moment I laid eyes on you...I just had to tell you how beautiful your left earlobe is" then bull shit about the shape of the ideal ear lobe...and how it's sorta like the shape of a toilet plunger. Then say I'm sorry I didn't mean to compare your ear to a toilet plunger, I do really like it. Can I kiss it?

^^ Chicks like retarded talk like that, that focuses on them and stirs their emotions. As long as you're smirking and subtly letting them almost know that you're just teasing them.

You can see how the dolphins convo isn't bad, but won't go anywhere (unless she loves and swims with dolphins, in which case you're in a dolphin conversation, not a sex one). The second convo seems retarded, but that's the beauty. It focuses on the most important thing on the planet...her. And that's why it seems weird. Because it's focusing on her and moving the conversation toward the bedroom.

You can see how even "direct" convo like "Hi, I know this is random, but you are cute! i'm sub!" isn't completely truthful. I'm not saying it's a bad opener, I think it's fine, and it may work out well for you, especially if delivered with sexual vibe. Just understand the statement itself isn't escalating things. You want to gag her with your dick. Let's not pretend she's a puppy.

It doesn't matter what you say, it matters how you say it. Your intent is to t̶a̶k̶e̶ h̶e̶r̶ h̶o̶m̶e̶ a̶n̶d̶ s̶h̶o̶w̶ h̶e̶r̶ a̶ f̶u̶n̶ t̶i̶m̶e̶ let her know you find her sexually appealing and you aren't ashamed of it.

"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"

"If you actually think that garbage ass women on Tinder not swiping on you means that you're a loser in real life, you're probably stupid enough to actually be a loser in real life." - tugofpeace
07-20-2017 10:39 AM
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subterfuge Offline
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Post: #173
RE: subterfuge journal
Thanks, Heavy. One of the more useful posts i've had in this journal to be honest.

I didn't put much detail into that last FR as it's not always worth the effort, but for what it's worth, at the moment i'm concentrating on the advice given to me by someone else, which seems to tie in with yur own advice in terms of the fun/random/nonsensical vibe, lol

And when i'm in a good mood, that's kind of my humour anyway.

And so I actually did carry that vibe (similar to your dolphin and earlobe shit! Smile) into some of them interactions. Went off on some random story about what peoples drinks say about them and came out with a lot of bollox

Not that any of the girls were interested and not that it ever got to that stage, but i'm still bad at escalating. Going from a fun conversation and bantering with a girl to making out with her at a bar (assuming that's my goal) is still somewhat of a mystery to me. I've done it lots of times in my younger (luckier) days, but usually when drunk, and i'm really not sure how it happens!

If im' honest, I think every time it's happened, the girl has made it super easy for me, but I can't rely on that!

Kind of want to be prepared just in case I ever come across a girl who is in to me
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2017 10:54 AM by subterfuge.)
07-20-2017 10:51 AM
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Post: #174
RE: subterfuge journal
Hey, Subterfuge, I've heard all this talk of vibes and I tend to find the concept confusing. I can get the gist of someone's vibe interacting with them, but it's more difficult to gauge how my own vibe is since it's a combo of inner and outer qualities. And I can't keep track of everything going on in my mind and how I'm reacting with body language and whatnot.

When you're not in the fun mood, how does this change your approach? Do you try to force a fun vibe, do you run with your current mood (if you're feeling down, maybe you're less animated and into conversations), or do you find a way to get into a fun mood?

"Their emotional waves will swamp you if you're just quietly-floating, so you need to learn to surf." - AnonymousBosch

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07-21-2017 02:43 AM
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Post: #175
RE: subterfuge journal
(07-21-2017 02:43 AM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  Hey, Subterfuge, I've heard all this talk of vibes and I tend to find the concept confusing. I can get the gist of someone's vibe interacting with them, but it's more difficult to gauge how my own vibe is since it's a combo of inner and outer qualities. And I can't keep track of everything going on in my mind and how I'm reacting with body language and whatnot.

When you're not in the fun mood, how does this change your approach? Do you try to force a fun vibe, do you run with your current mood (if you're feeling down, maybe you're less animated and into conversations), or do you find a way to get into a fun mood?

I think your vibe is just a product of your state-of-mind. Sometimes I might just be in a playful mood, and i'll naturally cary that over into an interaction. And I like to try to take note of that to see if i can spot any sort of pattern in terms of success/failure. Sometimes I might just be feeling a bit more serious, but maybe also more horny/sexual. Same thing

And yes, at times I do find myself trying to force a certain 'vibe' although from what i've read, this isn't necessarily advised. Idea being that if you are in a shit mood and you try to be all playful, it can come over as 'creepy' sicne the girl can sense the conflict.

Having said that, I also think it's probably not gonna go well if i'm in a shit mood and I DON'T try to hide it! Girls at night don't tend to want to talk to the guy who seems angry, lol! (unless maybe he looks like Chanin Tatum)

PS - Nothing to add from the BBQ. It was all 'couples', and There was only one gorgeous girl there, really who was glued too her boyfriend all night. (Dame, she was gorgeous!)
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2017 03:54 PM by subterfuge.)
07-24-2017 03:54 PM
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