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subterfuge journal
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Post: #201
RE: subterfuge journal
(10-23-2017 08:14 PM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  Have you tried doing really bad Shakespeare?

?
not sure what you mean
10-30-2017 12:40 PM
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Post: #202
RE: subterfuge journal
(08-20-2017 07:48 PM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  You always seem to do better when you're out with your goodlooking friend. Why do you think that is?

(08-21-2017 05:24 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  
(08-20-2017 07:48 PM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  You always seem to do better when you're out with your goodlooking friend. Why do you think that is?

I don't know. I have a few theories.

First theory is simply because i'm in a better mood when i'm out with him than when with my usual friends I drink with. I've known him for like 20 years and we're just super close. (it's because of him that I managed to get laid a few times when i was young. He'd literally pull 2 girls effortlessly at 2am just by saying 'hi...we're going back to mine. Come with us' and then he'd throw the one he didn't want onto me!)

I don't get to see him loads anymore since he's settled down with a serious GF, and so when I do see him, we have so much to talk and laugh about and we are just in a good state.

He's had a lifetime of pussy throwing itself at him, and so he just doesn't give off a creepy vibe at all. Being good looking girls know that he's not desperate.

When I'm with him and I approach girls, it almost feels like a form of social proof? Bit like if some random guy starts hanging around the high school promKing super-jock, he kind of become cool by association!!? lol

With the guys I usually 'game' with, they are all possibly even worse than me with girls. They don't give off a 'cool' vibe at all. Girls can sense this. They are very negative to be around and constantly say things that put me out of state. LIke, if there's a super hot teenage girl and I say i'm gonna approach her, one in particular is like ''Mate, she's super hot. You've got no chance. We aren't young or good looking! Wait for an easier target!''.

This also makes me feel more 'judged' when I'm out with my usual drinking buddies which might effect my game a little, too. I'm often more worried about how my friends will react to me getting rejected by a hot girl, than the rejection from the girl herself!!

Going back to this old exchange.
I was out last night with the same good looking dude, and I kissed 2 gorgeous girls.
Crazy, especially considering how I felt like a leper after my many rejections at the weekend, from girls less attractive than the 2 girl s from last night.
And both times, they kind of just fell into my lap and I didn't really 'game' them at all.
So interesting how it happens. I can only assume it's to do with my 'state' when i'm with certain people.
11-01-2017 06:29 AM
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Post: #203
RE: subterfuge journal
(10-30-2017 12:40 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  
(10-23-2017 08:14 PM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  Have you tried doing really bad Shakespeare?

?
not sure what you mean

It's an exercise they do in acting classes. Sometimes an actor is being too stiff or playing it safe with their lines, and the actor ends up missing a lot of things they can add to their character. Doing "bad Shakespeare" is way to get out of this boxlike mindset.

Bad Shakespeare is taking the script and then exaggerating everything and acting impulsively. It might be talking in a extremely goofy Shakespearean voice, doing jumping jacks and then running up and hugging someone in the audience, etc. all the while the actor is still going along with his script.

It's giving yourself permission to not only fuck things up, but to fuck things up so tremendously it's hard to take things seriously. It can feel embarrassing and stupid, and that's the whole point: if you've already done the worst thing possible, then what else is there to stop you?

"Their emotional waves will swamp you if you're just quietly-floating, so you need to learn to surf." - AnonymousBosch

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(This post was last modified: 11-02-2017 12:32 AM by King of Monkeys.)
11-02-2017 12:31 AM
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Post: #204
RE: subterfuge journal
Opened a gorgeous Marsha May look-a-like
She had on a halloween outfit and had one contact lense in her eye to like like a zombie.
I opened her and teased her about having glaucoma in her eye as if she wasn't even wearing a costume
She laughed.
I then asked her what her name was and what she was up too
She answered. I told her my plans too
She then asked me what I'M up too. This almost never happens (girls asking me things back)
I answered and tried to keep it playful
I cold read her and guess what she does for work
She tells me she's a flight attendant
I feel I need to spike the interaction but i'm not sure how, really. I can feel i'm losing her
I ask her about her job and she talks back a little bit, but I lose her at that point more or less
Shame as she was as hot as fuck, and it's kinda rare for a girl to ask me stuff back
11-02-2017 02:45 PM
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Post: #205
RE: subterfuge journal
Fairly quiet night, but

At the bar. I'm trying to get served and notice in the mirror behind the bar that there is a hot girl behind me. As I'm contemplating how to open her, she brushed my back with her phone that she is using to text. I decide to use that as my 'in' and spin around and say ''You just stabbed me in the back with your phone on purpose!'' with a suspicious smile. She is laughs and says ''lol, did I?! I wondered why you span around. I didn't mean too''. I say ''Yes you did! I've met girls like you before. You just go around poking men in the back with your phone. It's what you do. Nobody knows why'' (I'm just talking complete shit here. I guess RSD would call it self amusing which 'builds attraction')

She laughs. I'm about to ask her what she's up to but i'm not sure if that would be a mistake based on some input in a previous FR breakdown (rapport questions too soon after opening) but in the moment I'm now not sure what best to carry on with, plus the barman is now tapping me on my back and wants his money for the round of beers, plus the bar is getting busy and i'm in the way and it's my first approach of the night and the girls want to get served. I pay the barman and tell the girl ''be careful with that thing!'(her phone) and she laughs as I walk away. It's still early.

In a different bar and as i'm walking back from the bathroom, one of my friends says to me ''There's 3 gorgeous girls and an older one! The older one and one of the hot ones has gone outside for a smoke. We're gonna go and have a smoke and open them. You open the 2 hot ones sitting down!'' I say 'ok' and walk back into the bar and there are 2 gorgeous girls sitting down. I open them and ask whether I look like a drug dealer. One of teh hotties plays along and starts pretending she wants drugs from me. I pull her close and start talking like a druggie, telling her I can take her to the moon and back. She's laughing. We've been riffing long enough that I figure i'm now allowed to ask her a 'normal' question? I dunno. I do anyway, and we talk a little about what we are up too tonight. Soon after, the older one and the other hottie come back from their smoke and sit down with the other 2 that i'm talking too. My friends are all being weak and now it's basically just me and the 4 girls. It turns out that the older one is the mother! We are all talking and chatting. At some point I kind of run out of conversation and I think I declare (to the mother) that I like daughter A almost just to fill in the gap.

Pretty sure that was a giant fuck up, but I kind of done it out of fear of having nothing to say. She tells me that I have no chance as daughter A likes tall, handsome, muscly tattoo'd guys. Not me! I laugh it off and tell her I can change and do steroids and get leg lengthening surgery. The mother briefly declares my love for daughter A to the girl herself who kindly confirms her mothers thoughts and kindly rejects me.

I'm now mainly talking to the mother and daughter B who is also gorgeous, and who (maybe i'm wrong) seemed to be giving a few IOI's. Certainly much more engaged than daughter A. But I just feel weird about trying to make a move on her when she saw me basically get rejected by daughter A. (DLV) - My friends are getting bored watching me and want to leave. I don't think i've got a shot with any of these and I decide to join them and move along

I go to a different bar and I spot an attractive black girl. Not super hot or even my type particularly, but she is attractive. I open her and say ''Hey! Do you like white boys?!'' She laughs and says ''maybe''. I say ''Good! I'm pretty white. I'm good with computers. I can't jump very high. I Burn in the sun''. I'm saying all of this with lots of kino as i'm talking into her ear. She's cracking up laughing and is comfortable with my touch. I assume I have attraction here. Memory is slightly hazy to be honest, but I think that I should have gone more into comfort here and asked her about herself and stuff (since I have attraction from her, and have showed my own intent through my touch and my open) but I think I carried on trying to ramp up the attraction and was talking nonsense and being a flirt instead. I could possibly have kissed her at some point but restrained myself. In the old days I'd have not kissed her out of fear But I don't really have that fear any more. I just go for it. However, I chose not to kiss her in order to 'make her chase a bit and invest

However, the whole time I could sense some resistance and she was shit testing me a fair bit and I wondered whether i'd read her attraction wrong. At one point I kind of gave up and assumed maybe she wasn't that into me and as I was on my way to the bathroom, one of her friends grabbed my arm and said something like ''My friend really likes you! She's never like this''. I told her ''Nahh...she hates me!'' She was like ''No No! try again!'' lol I went to the bathroom, came back, and my brother was talking to her now (not trying to pull her. Just talking as i'd introduced him to her earlier) I come back but she is still a little frosty towards me. My brother tells me that she likes me but thinks i'm a ''fuck boy''. I talk to the girl a little more. It's not really happening. I try suggest going somewhere just to confirm whether there's interest. She doesn't really seem up for it. It's getting late. I've drank more than I intended too, and I decide to throw the towel in.

I make a few short direct approaches as hail mary shots before I leave the bar, but no joy.

It might seem boring, but after last weekend (the 20 harsh, instant rejections in a rown night! Smile) It kind of felt like success.
11-04-2017 06:24 AM
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Post: #206
RE: subterfuge journal
crunching some estimated numbers, I appear to get laid once every 250 approaches or so, so if I get the money to do a small trip to EE, i'll hopefully be able to get laid over the course of a 2-4 days if I can approach say 300 girls in a target rich environementSmile
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2017 04:43 PM by subterfuge.)
11-09-2017 04:43 PM
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Post: #207
RE: subterfuge journal
First approach on a 3-set, one of whom was a 9 and was wearing the same style jacket as me. I opened her on that fact, and told her she was copying my style. She smiled. Was the first set of the night, and after opening, I rermembered not to ask her any questions as advised, but think of much in the way of 'statements' in the moment or any funny/good DHV stories and so I didn't really 'follow through'. I read recently about a technique of letting her do the talking after you open, so just looked at her expectadely, but it didn't work out and she just bailed, lol

I opened a girl on the dancefloor and commented on her dance moves. Didn't really transition into anything, but since it was the dancefloor, it's more physical than verbal it's not a deal breaker. I tried to pull her towards me a bit, but she wasn't attracted and she pulled away. next

I open a hot Forreign girl. Can't remember how I opened, unfortunately. We were talking for a few minutes. It was the best set up to that point, and I got a littly physical at times whilst I was teasing her and stuff, but after a minute or so I was struggling to keep her attention. I kind of 'went for broke' and showed clear intent, but unfortunately, she wasn't too keen.

Stood in the smoking area, and 3 girls are walking down teh street past me. I call them towards me and convince them to come inside and they eventually agree. I meet then at their table a few minutes later and we all talk. I chat with the older one (I think I broke the rules and asked her her name and stuff) who is hot. About 30. She with a friend and her hot teenage niece who I want. After a while we all dance. I try to talk to the hot niece a little bit I really can't think of anything to say other than the odd comment about her dancing or her clothes or whatever, and she ejects a little nit after. Eventually all 3 leave. The older one was very friendly indeed, although I think she had a fiance anyway

Very late now. As i'm walking towards the exit, I spot a young girl and make one more hail mary approach! I just grab her and say something like ''You! I had to meet you. Who are you exactly!?'' lol. (rule break because that's basically asking her name?) She's 18! humongous age gap, lol. I can't remember much about it, but we chat for a few minutes and it's going ok. So well in fact, that I let my ride go without me as I think I might pull her lol. She buys me a drink, We chat and flirt. After a while I get close to kissing her and she says something like ''there's no way i'm kissing you by the way!''. I lose a bit of hope but try to remain unnaffected. We are taking pics together and stuff. It's all going well....UNTIL...Some handsome forreign dude comes over and starts chatting too us. She seems instantly into him but for now we're all talking together. This is where it fukks up completely, lol. We all head to wards teh smoking area. The guy kind of 'cheers's' my glass after I make him laugh, and my glass falls on teh floor and smashes. Immediately, a bouncer runs over and throws me out. I guess he assumes i'm super drunk and droppping glasses, lol. I try to fight my cause, but they don't give a shiit here in the UK. I'm now outside on my own, and she's indoors with the amog.

Whilst I'm outside I try to chat up a very drunk hot Polish gilr sitting alone on teh bench. I stay in set for a while, but I can't build any attraction. Annoying as i'd love to bang her and I guess she can't have a boyfirned with her. I mean, She's sitting alone on a freezing cold night on a bench and she's hammered! Some dude she knows enters the set but soon leaves. I carry on trying to talk too her, but Eventuallly it fizzles out.

I've been outside in the cold for about 45 minutes now and eventually the girl and teh amog come outside, but now they look like a couple and are holding handds and stuff. I think 'fuck it' and approach her again whillst she's talking to him. She's now more frosty towards me. I ask her what she's up too, and she tells me that they're going. They walk off back to her house to bone. Fukk, lol.
11-19-2017 07:17 AM
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Post: #208
RE: subterfuge journal
laid, but not one of my better ones! We call it 'beer goggles' here in the UK! Big black teen. haha.
She was a bit of a freak in be though, though which was an experience! I'm not used to dirty talk except inn porn! ''Shove 3 fingers in me and then put them in my mouth!'' kind of stuff, lol

I actually felt on good form last night but my God, these UK girls REALLY ain't easy. My first set of the night, I opened and I felt relaxed and confident and opened well and everything 'felt' as good as can be, but as usual, it was like talking too a fucking chair, lol. I guess they could have just had BF's or whatever, but I still get demmoralised at having to break through teh shell of these English girls who simply never talk to strangers and find it odd when one strikes up conversation!

It's annoyed me to the point that i'll probably go out again tonight even though I can't afford it, just to hopefully get one or two good interactions.

I had one very good set, but it was kind of cheating because she knew the friend I was with. She was older but sexy. Think Liz Hurley, lol. I probably had a decent shot with her because she was throwing them IOI's, but I like young.
11-25-2017 07:37 AM
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Post: #209
RE: subterfuge journal
(11-19-2017 07:17 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  ....UNTIL...Some handsome forreign dude comes over and starts chatting too us. She seems instantly into him but for now we're all talking together. This is where it fukks up completely, lol. We all head to wards teh smoking area. The guy kind of 'cheers's' my glass after I make him laugh, and my glass falls on teh floor and smashes. Immediately, a bouncer runs over and throws me out. I guess he assumes i'm super drunk and droppping glasses, lol. I try to fight my cause, but they don't give a shiit here in the UK. I'm now outside on my own, and she's indoors with the amog.

Grats on the lay, but it sounds like you got outgamed by alphabro douchebag club game.
11-25-2017 10:28 PM
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Post: #210
RE: subterfuge journal
One of my best lays last night.
Air hostess. Blonde. 22. I'd say an 8!
She was floating around the outskirts of the dancefloor.
I Super annoying that I can't remember much about the approach, but I *think* I opened direct, dolt her she was hot, aske her some stuff. Could sense attraction and started getting physical. Makeout. She's with 2 friends and I basically sneak her away from them and get her to invite me back to her place. We get a cab. Have sex.
11-26-2017 08:12 AM
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Post: #211
RE: subterfuge journal
actual FR


I was also out on Friday when I got laid, but she was nothing to write home about at all. Border line embarrassing, in fact! (beer goggles !!) so I was keen to try to make amends and get a hotter girl. Happened much soon than i'd have thought!

I'm feeling rather relaxed, albeit slightly tired. I don't usually go out 2 nights in a row.
First set is a hot girl who stands next to me at the bar to get served. She's got on this crazy jacket. Looks like a yeti! I open her on it, and tell he I like it and that I want to cuddle her! She laughs. I riff off of the opener a little and she's smiling and talking back which is good, but don't now want to jump into the usual name/age stuff as I don't want to be boring, but not sure what else to say instead, and she ejects soon after.

About 10 minutes later, the same girl comes back with her friends and stands in the same place. Just talking amongst themselves. The girls friend notices me looking at the initial girl and calls me out playfully. We all talk a little. I ask them if they're best friends bla bla. I get their names and ask them what they're up too for the night. They say that they're not sure. I invite them to come to the next bar with me. She says 'we're not leaving yet, but i'll come and find you'. Should have got her number here I guess, but also might have seemed a bit keen and also too soon after barely speaking much really. Still, a very positive set compared to what i'm used too!

We are in a new bar now. I go outside and join 2 random girls on their table (like outside smoking area with tables where people just stand around. So it's not like an intrusion. Hope that makes sense) There's an extra drink on the table, and I ask them if it belongs to them. They say some guy just left it there. I go into some sort of daterape/rpoffie skit and accuse them of trying to spike me or something. They play along and soon after we are all bantering together. Another very good set. I didn't really show much 'intent' though and after a little while, they told me they were going back inside. Again, probably not persistent enough on my part. I could have went with them or whatever

I'm standing near the bar and i'm kind of boucing along to the music and pretending to DJ, and a very cure girl catches my eye and she's noticing me 'DJ'ing'. I open her by accusing her of teasing me or something. We riff briefly. She's Polish. Veyr attractive. She tells me I approached her a few weeks back lol!! haha. She's got lots of friends with her, and I lose the set fairly fast. (i'd see her again briefly later on)

I open a girl on the dancefloor. Direct. She's rude and dismisses me straight away.
I'm dancing and some girl grabs me and tells me to look after he friend whilst she goes to teh bar. I look around and the girl who 'needs looking after' is the hot Polish girl from earlier. I think this must be a damn good sign, but when I approach her, I can kind of feel a slight wall is up. Strange. Can't remember what we spoke about but I think the set died fairly soon. Annoying.
I'm assuming it's not gonna happen for me tonight.

I spot this super hot blonde and I think 'fuck it!''. She's about 20. I open direct and pretty much just tell her that she's hot. I'm 100% expecting to be told to fuck off, but she opens up straight away and is asking me questions and stuff! I switch it on a bit and soon we are laughing and stuff. I sense attraction and move her a few feet away from her friends (who i'd already briefly spoken too). I kiss her. I slowly escalate at the bar and am kind of brishing my hand over her pussy. This was a mistake I think and was risky, but I couldn't help myself and I also didn't even think i'd be able to pull her, so didn't really think about it.

We basically agree to go somewhere (one of our places) and she tells me she needs to see her friends fast. I say i'll go with her. She starts leading me to where she thinks they are. This bit was scary because I still have no idea how she done it, but she just vanished into a puff of smoke!! legit David Blaine stuff. I was walking behind her, look at her, I litreally blinked and then she'd gone! I searched for a few minutes and couldn't find her but I found her friends who were asking me where she was! I was like ''I dunno. She vanished. Call her!!'' they called her and luckily she turned up a few seconds later. We told the friends we were going, and then we went back to her place that she shares with a load of other air hostesses.

Makeout on bed. Sex. No LMR. Another huge age gap. Pretty sure I lied about my age and knocked off about a decade! lol
11-26-2017 10:01 AM
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Post: #212
RE: subterfuge journal
Fucking nice. How's it feel to be an older, uglier dude who can still bang hot 18-20 somethin's? Too bad your downer friends denied game. They could be where you are right now.

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11-26-2017 05:07 PM
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Post: #213
RE: subterfuge journal
(11-26-2017 05:07 PM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  Fucking nice. How's it feel to be an older, uglier dude who can still bang hot 18-20 somethin's? Too bad your downer friends denied game. They could be where you are right now.

It was a great night in terms of getting almost zero of them really awkward stilted interactions where the girl clearly has no interest in talking to me making difficult to carry a conversation, or any of those instant blowouts, but It feels like it was more to do with luck in terms of happening too approach cool girls rather than the rude/boring/unsociable ones. (I had a good few of them the night before so I either my 'vibe' was much better on the 2nd night or as I say, it was just the randomess of game! Smile)

i'm still not even sure I can claim to have any more 'skill' or be better at talking to girls than them, really. But I get more results, I think simply as a by-product of approaching more. Even though I'm not handsome, I guess some girls just have unusual taste, and the hot blonde made it quite clear that she'd noticed me earlier and thought I was 'hot' and hoped I'd approached her lol. So in a way I can't help bu think it was down to my particular look rather than game, but maybe i'm being hard on myself, lol

Not gonna lie though. Felt good waking up to the texts from my friends in disbelief that I pulled her, lol.
11-27-2017 08:13 AM
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Post: #214
RE: subterfuge journal
Would kind of like to see her again, but not sure it's gonna happen.

Also my head is a bit fucked up as one of my friends banged a girl who I wrote about in a previous FR.
Long story short (probably page 5 or so at a guess!), A month or so back I approached her, ran some good game, she was all over me. Logistics meant I couldn't seal the deal. She texted me lots, but for some reason was cold towards me the next time I saw her out in person. And then a few nights back she basically blanked me again, and was all over my friend in front of me (who she barely seem to even notice the night I approached her) and she pulled him. He couldn't have 'pulled her'. He has literally zero game. Even less than me!

I know it shouldn't bother me, but it does.

Hopefully get some more luck going forward and get it out of my brain, lol

But these things seem to work in 'waves' for me. I had such positive interactions last weekend that I just know i'm due some weekends of instant, harsh rejections, lol

I'll be sure to include them in teh FR's, though! Smile
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2017 04:03 PM by subterfuge.)
11-30-2017 04:03 PM
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Post: #215
RE: subterfuge journal
(11-26-2017 10:01 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  I spot this super hot blonde and I think 'fuck it!''. She's about 20. I open direct and pretty much just tell her that she's hot. I'm 100% expecting to be told to fuck off, but she opens up straight away and is asking me questions and stuff! I switch it on a bit and soon we are laughing and stuff. I sense attraction and move her a few feet away from her friends (who i'd already briefly spoken too). I kiss her. I slowly escalate at the bar and am kind of brishing my hand over her pussy. This was a mistake I think and was risky, but I couldn't help myself and I also didn't even think i'd be able to pull her, so didn't really think about it.

Makeout on bed. Sex. No LMR. Another huge age gap. Pretty sure I lied about my age and knocked off about a decade! lol

Ahh the power of Not Giving A Fuck.

Grats on the bang, man. Great work.

"Once you've gotten the lay you have won."- Mufasa

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11-30-2017 04:41 PM
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Post: #216
RE: subterfuge journal
(11-27-2017 08:13 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  It was a great night in terms of getting almost zero of them really awkward stilted interactions where the girl clearly has no interest in talking to me making difficult to carry a conversation, or any of those instant blowouts, but It feels like it was more to do with luck in terms of happening too approach cool girls rather than the rude/boring/unsociable ones. (I had a good few of them the night before so I either my 'vibe' was much better on the 2nd night or as I say, it was just the randomess of game! Smile)

i'm still not even sure I can claim to have any more 'skill' or be better at talking to girls than them, really. But I get more results, I think simply as a by-product of approaching more. Even though I'm not handsome, I guess some girls just have unusual taste, and the hot blonde made it quite clear that she'd noticed me earlier and thought I was 'hot' and hoped I'd approached her lol. So in a way I can't help but think it was down to my particular look rather than game, but maybe i'm being hard on myself, lol

Not gonna lie though. Felt good waking up to the texts from my friends in disbelief that I pulled her, lol.

You might not see it in yourself right now, but even just by comparing your current posts to 3 or 4 pages ago I can tell your attitude has changed. You've become increasingly more positive, and you don't beat yourself up so much over mistakes or missteps.

Also, the bolded parts are a part of game that you're now understanding because you've had experience with it. I think just knowing that there are hot girls out there who are into the way you look means you will be better at spotting girls who are into your look and be able to hook them better.

Also, also, this complete randomness and sense of luck is a part of game. Sometimes you'll be on top of the world one day, then eating shit the next, and maybe it's just a normal fucking day. Either way, keep up the good work. You give me hope that I can succeed whenever I can grow the balls to get out there and talk to girls.

"Their emotional waves will swamp you if you're just quietly-floating, so you need to learn to surf." - AnonymousBosch

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11-30-2017 10:17 PM
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Post: #217
RE: subterfuge journal
subterfuge, hit me up next time you're about to come to London. Would be good to do some approaches with someone who ain't afraid to open a few sets!
12-14-2017 02:12 PM
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Post: #218
RE: subterfuge journal
(12-14-2017 02:12 PM)Perspicacity Wrote:  subterfuge, hit me up next time you're about to come to London. Would be good to do some approaches with someone who ain't afraid to open a few sets!

I was actually in London Bridge and Soho last weekend, but i'm rarely in London to be honest. Too rich for my blood!

Was out on Saturday. made some approaches, but nothing worthy of a field report.

Some girl started kissing me out of nowhere. Literally walked up too me at the bar and started making out with me, but she was only a 6 at best. In hindsight, if I'd have known how unsuccessful my night would turn out to be (lots of fast rejections) i'd have tried to pull her!

One particularly painful one was this gorgeous girl in a peach dress with a very pretty face and nice body who was sorting of preening herself. I approached her, but she was just not giving me anything to work with. Eventually I called her out on it using RSDMax's ''You hate me'' line, and she was like 'I don't know you''. I laughed and was like ''I know. I'm trying to change that!'' and I asked her a question or two and then the rude bitched just walked away mid sentence, lol. Ouch. Tried a few dancefloor approaches too. One decent girl kept dancing near me and was giving me IOI's but I just couldn't engage her! I tried opening her a few times, she more or less ignored me, but still carried on dancing near me and looking at me etc. Frustrating.
I will concede that I was more drunk that usual, though. I'm hoping I can use that as a sort of excuse! lol. I was out with a load of friends from school who I still keep in touch with, and so was in very good spirits and drunk too much!
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2017 04:43 AM by subterfuge.)
12-18-2017 04:42 AM
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Post: #219
RE: subterfuge journal
Made maybe 8 approaches last night which is good as I fought through teh AA, although they were all more or less just instant rejections, unfortunately, with the odd exception of a few longer sets, but where I don't think they were interested.

First set was a group of 4 hot girls sitting down. I approach and say something like ''You guys look interesting. What's up?''. They look a bit shocked. I ask them where they are from and stuff and get their names. They are Romanian. The one I opened is married as is the girl next to her. There's a very hot blonde sitting the other side of us who is glued to her phone. I high five her. I am told that she is single. I try to carry on the converstaion a bit and tell a little story about another Romanina girl I know and we laugh a little, but after a few minutes, they say goodbye to me and head indoors.

I try to open a hot girl on the dancefloor. Smile at her and extend my hand. She looks at me like an Alien and turns her back to me, lol.

I open 2 girls in the smoking area with my wing. I open her with some sort of observation about her coat. They laugh at my open (maybe not in a good way? Like It was a weird conversation starter?) I then ask where they are from and one of the girls shit tests me about that questions aswell, lol . (something like ''how original. First thing you ask is where are we from....'') I manage to hook the set, though. We all start to talk a little. My friend is doing OK, too. But again, after about 3 minutes, they eject. Not enough attraction, I guess

I try too open 2 girls who are sitting down looking bored. They are instantly cold towards me. I open with something like ''Hey guys, I'm Sub. I wanted to say hi''. One of them again looks at me like starting a conversation with a stranger is a weird thing to be doing. She doesn't reply. Her friend looks away. I decide to try to stick in set, rsdMax style. I ramble a bit and they still don't respond. I ask if they speak English and eventually she speaks and says ''yes'', but she is looking very hostile. I say ''lol, do you hate me?'' and she says ''can you just go away?!'' lol. I smile and eject, but this one hurt a bit

I open a black girl and tell her I like her dreadlocks, and again she just looks at me grabs some guy she's with as if she needs saving from me, lol.

I re-open the Romanian girls from earlier. They are the only friendly ones in the venue, but it's only the married girls left now, and even if I was interested in going for a married girl, I didn't sense any realy interest from them

Final set of the night was an odd one. I open 2 girls sitting down. My friend starts talking to the 5, and i'm talking too the 8, but I can tell straight away that she's crazy! She says some offensive stuff to my friend for no reason, tell him he looks like a nerd and that he's boring and other stuff about how he must have a shit life. It just came from nowhere. I carried on talking too her and she started insulting me, lol. But with every insult, I used game principles. Agreed. Amplified. She called me weird, and I Asked her why she liked 'weird guys like me'' etc. I touched her at one point to initiate some kino, and she reacted badly and was like ''Ewww....Don't touch me!!!''. After a while she got up to leave and I didn't react. She said something like ''I'm literally gonna walk away from you now'' and I laughed ''haha, I really don't care. This relationship is over. I'll send for me stuff'' and then she sat back down and kept talking to me. I started to wonder whether all of the NON STOP talk of how she thought I was 'weird' etc might have been a giant shit test. I dunno. Then at one point she touched me and I used her line back at her : ''Ewww....don't touch me. You're creepy''. It's late now and we are outside of the venue that is now closing up. My friend is kissing her friend (the 5) a little bit. The 8 is on the phone, I think calling a cab. I contemplate trying to seed some sort of pull, but I lose confidence. Most of the night she's seemed repulsed by me and I don't feel like having her laugh in myy face if I suggest going somewhere, lol. She is hot, though. Anyway, my friend gets her friends number, and the they both leave.

Rough night to be honest.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 06:28 AM by subterfuge.)
12-23-2017 06:24 AM
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Post: #220
RE: subterfuge journal
Quote:I spot this super hot blonde and I think 'fuck it!''. She's about 20. I open direct and pretty much just tell her that she's hot. I'm 100% expecting to be told to fuck off, but she opens up straight away and is asking me questions and stuff! I switch it on a bit and soon we are laughing and stuff. I sense attraction and move her a few feet away from her friends (who i'd already briefly spoken too). I kiss her. I slowly escalate at the bar and am kind of brishing my hand over her pussy. This was a mistake I think and was risky, but I couldn't help myself and I also didn't even think i'd be able to pull her, so didn't really think about it.

Makeout on bed. Sex. No LMR. Another huge age gap. Pretty sure I lied about my age and knocked off about a decade! lol



Quote:She looks at me like an Alien and turns her back to me...''can you just go away?!''...tell him he looks like a nerd and that he's boring and other stuff about how he must have a shit life. It just came from nowhere...Most of the night she's seemed repulsed by me...


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12-24-2017 12:46 AM
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Post: #221
RE: subterfuge journal
(12-23-2017 06:24 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  I try too open 2 girls who are sitting down looking bored. They are instantly cold towards me. I open with something like ''Hey guys, I'm Sub. I wanted to say hi''. One of them again looks at me like starting a conversation with a stranger is a weird thing to be doing. She doesn't reply. Her friend looks away. I decide to try to stick in set, rsdMax style. I ramble a bit and they still don't respond. I ask if they speak English and eventually she speaks and says ''yes'', but she is looking very hostile. I say ''lol, do you hate me?'' and she says ''can you just go away?!'' lol. I smile and eject, but this one hurt a bit

You are trying to force compliance on a non-compliant girl. As soon as she gives an indicator of disinterest you need to take a step back and show your disinterest as well, make her feel like she is weird for rejecting you "I'm just trying to make conversation, is that weird?" then plow from there.

If you get two IODs then yeah, that's a hard no and you should move on.

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12-24-2017 04:12 PM
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Post: #222
RE: subterfuge journal
Sort of a mini end-of-year recap.

I think I got 7 or 8 lays this year from cold approach in the end which is much much more than i'd have expected. One of them was like the hottest girl i'll ever get, and so i'm grateful for the experience! (just turned 18!)

I don't feel as though i've necessarily 'improved' much though, if i'm honest. I feel as though them bangs were a result of pure numbers game + luck (finding girls who were into my 'look' and so I couldn't really go wrong. If a girl thinks you are 'good looking' then you are set!). I'm still at the mercy of the girl on the approach and i'm yet to ever come CLOSE to 'turning' a girl who is initially cold/unreceptive towards me (I'd always hoped that was the point of 'game'!).

Recently i've been trying to implement mysteries 'meet disinterest with disinterest', so when a girl basically ignores me or doesn't contribute at all (as is almost always the case), I kind of call her out on it and maybe look away or get my phone out or whatever, but she is still more than happy to just walk away. Not sure about his theory! Maybe it's not to be used in the UK where girls don't have the same social pressure to be friendly and social with strangers!

The last few months have actually been some of my roughest in terms of game. I'm starting to get very used too approaching girls and it going bad, and usually ending within 30 seconds max! Also, i've realised that dancefloor game really seems to be very looks based, too. Opening without LOTS of IOI's seems to be a recipe for disaster!

I'm not sure if this is normal, or whether i'm a particularly slow learner, but I still kind of feel like i'm at 'stage 1' whereby i'm still working on being able to 'open/hook' the girl. Get her to talk back. Stay in set for more than 30 seconds!!

I guess I foolishly hoped that after a year and thousands of approaches, my ''issues' would be things like LMR!! lol

I'm probably gonna set a target for 2 lays this year, and I feel that even that might be a little on the optimistic side!

thanks to the regular readers!
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 07:38 AM by subterfuge.)
01-02-2018 07:35 AM
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Post: #223
RE: subterfuge journal
Just a few quick approaches from last night as I just popped out to meet someone real quick

Opened 2 girls in the beers garden.
''Hey, how's your night going?''
They look slightly annoyed at my approach but they answer.
I do a scripted cold read on the target. ''You look like bla bla bla''
She smiles.
I ask how they know each other, get their names, age, plans for the night
They haven't asked me anything back and this is where I always bail.
Technially, they say to meet disinterest with your own disinterest, but in practice this honestly doesn't work. If I look away or pretend to not wanna talk, they WILL walk away!
SO instead I'm trying to learn to stay in set after all of this time and make time my friend.
So I ask a few random questions that probably make me sound a bit weird, lol, but it's all I can think of in the moment as my mind is blank.
With one of the questions, one of the girls laugh. I try to riff a little and i've bought myself another 2 minutes maybe, but at this point I get ''Well,,,,,Nice to meet you!!''

Not exactly teh 30 minute set I was hoping for , but better than my usual 1 minute set, by about 2 minutes Smile

I open HOT girl direct, and tell her that she's adorable. She gives me a bit of a weird look tbh, and I sort of read her expression as saying ''You can't HONESTLY think you have a shot with me!!?''. lol. I ask for her name. She gives it. I make a comment on her jacket. She nods. Feeling som social pressure here. Not sure what to say at this point to 'game' her. I decide to just try to stay in set and use teh classic interview questions (as per Julien) to buy me some time. I ask her age, where she's from, who she's with. She hasn't asked me anything back. Now i'm like ''Cool.......yeah.....anyway, I just thought you were hot and wanted to meet you. See what you were like..'' she's still looking at me like she's in mild shock and then makes her escape.

The last set was weird because It was actually on the girl I met about 6 months ago and wrote about in an old FR:


(06-23-2017 05:45 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  Q: Does a girl telling you she finds another guy hot mean she's into you and it's a shit test, or does it more likely her way of turning you down once she senses that you're into her?

I was in a bar with a friend of mine who, unfortunately at this point was shit-hammered and borderline embarrassingly drunk. So I go solo and see a gorgeous VERY young girl, with some handsome young guy. I assume he's banging her. I overhear them speaking and hop into their conversation, and they're immediately friendly.

We start to chat as a group. I can't remember how I found out, but it turns out she's single.

My drunk friends starts talking to the guy, and now i'm sitting opposite the girl. I'm finding it hard to think of things to say. It's not awful and there are moments of 'fun' and laughing, but i've maybe regressed a little. I was trying to remember canned lines i've read. Trying to think of fun topics to raise etc. There was too much ''so, where did you go to school', ''what's it like where you work?'' type stuff going on, and I couldn't seem to work out what to do.

Anyway, despite that, at one point we were talking. I was looking deep into her eyes. I should mention she was hot as hell and a dancer. Just turned 18 2 days ago. I'm in my 30's, but since my last lay, I try not to let that stop me!

She mentions being strong for a certain dance move and I say ''Bullshit. You got no muscles, little girl!''. She laughs all giddy and then says ''fell my muscles''. She seems very comfortable with this and at this point I thought I potentially had a shot?

Then soon after, she mentioned studying dance in college, and I grabbed her, and we laughed as I pulled her around as if I knew what I was doing in terms of classical dance!

After that we carried on talking about a few things, which is when she started talking about how good looking the barman was. (He WAS handsome, lol) I immediately felt like shit, but remembered the basic game principle and agreed and amplified. I ws like ''Yeah! I'd bang him! You want me to get his number for you!!?'' She laughed, but I still saw her trying to catch his eye.

We carried on talking, but at this point, I was unsure of how to 'make the move'. How to go from random conversation with a girl who has possibly showed 'some' interest/compliance. And the fact she'd mentioned the hot barman also made me quetsion whether it was pointless and would have looked socially unaware. I was stumped. Change the topic to something sexual? Just make a statement of intent. Either way, I messed up, and fairly soon after, they left. The GUY asked for my facebook lol! (we'd bantered at various stages throughout the night. He IS straight, lol. Just looking for new friends)


So yeah, I saw her for the first time since that night dancing with her friends. I felt brave and approached...was hoping for a possibly interesting convo since I have always wondered if she was possibly into me a tiny but...... and it went aweful! lol.

From a distance, she looked pleased to see me and gave me the ''It's you from that night!!!'' type look. But when I approached her with her friends, she more or less blanked me and after literally 20 seconds of me trying to dance and talk to her with her friends, I bailed. Not sure what that was about. It was almost like she was embarrassed, but then that's me just guessing. it's the vibe I got, though.

Home time
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2018 11:44 AM by subterfuge.)
01-04-2018 11:43 AM
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Post: #224
RE: subterfuge journal
My attempt. You're either in a northern town or an essex type town/city, IIRC. Either way it's not the most sophisticated of scenes however I know these places can produce super hotties amongst the trash.

Given where you are the rejections are going to be harsh. You've done so well to keep going through these and bang some amazing quality. I believe you when you talk about the quality of the best ones you banged. I mentioned it before but it's a fucking shame about retention. So odd nowadays how it is men that would be looking to keep a girl locked down after sex as the girls are too busy attention whoring or literally just whoring. Shame you couldn't keep at least one of the hotties as a LTR. I say this because retention is a problem as you're doing so much work, enduring so much, for one bang. Then she is gone.

You have improved, it's just you're being a bit hard on yourself and it often takes dozens of experiences like this to believe you're not just "getting lucky".

As for your main problem, the conversation thing, where so many girls won't even give you a chance. The reason is as follows. Night club/bar cold approach is a heavily looks-based/first-impression environment. Not as bad as online but still brutal. As your current self, you only have access to a certain % of girls who would even let you go past the first impression. If you were in a social circle and had some high status in it they would focus more on that instead of you being older than them, not looking like a male model etc. But for now, that's all the data they've got. Your first impression. So given that even for the perfect guy only a certain % of girls are sexually available at any given time, you will only take a % of that %, which leaves you with a LOT of "No Girls". These are girls whose minds cannot be changed unless some massive sign of status immediately changes her perception of you and even then she could still be "No" because of a variety of reasons. Your pool of "Yes Girls" is therefore small, and in a looks based environment much smaller than that of a man who looks like a male model. (But he still has to not fuck up, easier said than done in today's UK market.) You also have a pool of "Maybe Girls" where the "real game is played". I suppose if you had better verbal game, wit, banter, non-verbals, logistics, escalation skills, personality, etc. you could "convert" more "Maybe Girls".

But these girls who are giving you hard "No"... in a nightclub environment, the best you can do is improve your style and looks to the max and come in with a strong opener. They will turn to weak Maybe girls if it worked, otherwise they will just remain No girls. It's a myth that you can routinely "turn" No girls to get them to be extremely interested, which guys often think is the point of "Game" in the first place. By now you should maybe be getting an idea about what type of girl is likely to be a "Maybe" or "Yes" girl by looking at her. Finding your niche and cutting out these Hard No girls will cut out so much chaff so you can focus on the girls who are happy to give you a chance. "Game" now isn't so much trying to get girls who are firmly "No" to change their minds, it's about developing an instinct for which ones will welcome your approach and let you progress further. That and retention would be your best bet to focus on, if there's nothing else you can do to maximize your looks, style, first impression.

It's true - IOD is only really effective when a girl could be remotely interested, or she just wants the attention back i.e. once she has coaxed interest out of you, she will give up (cat string theory). The key obviously in such (difficult - "Weak Maybe" Girls) cases is to combine small rewards (IOIs) with continuing IODs, and only reward her for behavior that seems conducive to your banging her. A lot of the time girls will like to be complimented on something they personally value or have worked hard at e.g. if they are a doctor or if they practise ballet religiously etc. Otherwise in this market an IOD from a guy - so what, she can just get another dozen guys line up wanting to bang her.

It's brutal out there and it becomes harder work by the day. You've done really well to come this far.
01-05-2018 10:03 AM
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Post: #225
RE: subterfuge journal
Close. I'm not in Essex, but I live in the SouthEast, and my particular town is a classic London overspill community (created as a result of the government policy of moving residents out of Greater London into other areas in the South East of England between the 1930s and the 1970s)
It is fairly 'the only way is essex' ish at times, I guess.
People talk about British girls being ugly, but I gotta say, I can't tell you how many STUNNING girls I see on a daily basis! Mostly teenagers with horrible chavvy attitudes from broken homes, but hot as hell none-the-less!
I imagine most people who live here don't want too!

Not sure I mentioned it or not, but I gamed with a newly divorced friend of mine the other night, and he was getting the exact reactions that I get. I felt bad for him, but at the same time, it was almost comforting. He is a cool, successful, friendly, likeable dude, so for him to be getting these reactions made me feel better about my own! He was like 'Everyone here is in groups of social circles and don't want to speak to random dudes! I'mi getting shot down at 'hi' every single time, more or less''. I was like 'You'll get used to it! :''

I guess my faith in 'game' has changed a little bit. Or maybe i've re-defined in my head what 'game' is.

I kind of sometimes think the best bet is to always be super direct, make it crystal clear that I think she's hot and I want to bang, and escalate like a super-creep. Girls who think i'm OK will let me bang them. The other ones won't, and i'll know very very quickly! Smile

That obviously goes completely against Mystery Method, 'don't show your intent first', neg theory, make her chase bla bla bla, but my experience so far is that one can't even come close to 'tunrning' a girl and that it's also possible to lose 'yes girls' by not escalating. I t becomes pure numbers game as opposed to 'skill' or even 'game' (depending on your definition)

More of teh 'evolution daily' type style of approach (if you know who he is)

I AM a pussy with escalation (I admit it. Need to improve there) but that's mainly because I feel as though i'd be escalating on a girl who is 100% not into me and I can feel it, lol and I fear doing so would make me look socially clueless.

But then, There's also the more new age PUA school of thought that suggests that escalation actually builds attraction in itself, and so one should always do it. I dunno. I think back to my most recent interaction with a smoking hot, tall blonde teenager with hair down to her ass, and I opened, she was at least receptive, I asked her some questions, she was friendly but I still felt ZERO attraction from her, I teased her about her drink, she giggled, and then shortly after she left. I'm always left wondering ''Should I have done SOMETHING, or was that never gonna happen for me. I think she was simply being polite. Maybe a statement of intent? Some physical escalation?''

And finally in terms of improvement? As you say, conversation has always been my issue to some degree, but I don't feel totally reponsible, as most people aren't used to girls not talking back. It really is quite difficult to carry a convo for any amount of time on your own! I'm sure I could improve, but as someone said before, there really aren't any books out there that tell you what to say. It's always the same. Julien says to ask the usual interview questions (which I do). Others say to make statements/assumptions about the girl (which I do). But after a minute or so you naturally run out of things to say.

Looks: Yes. very important. In fact, if you look at the RSD website, the whole forum has been crumbling for a few months now. Too many people arguing that all that really matters are your looks and slowly more and more people are agreeing, and now the forums don't even resemble anything that they used too. Every discussion is about looks, lol.

I actually have looked extensively into surgeries in order to make me more handsome, but it's a hell of a lot of money, and since i'm not young anymore, i'm not certain that the bang is worth the buck (pun semi intended).
01-05-2018 10:29 AM
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