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subterfuge journal
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cruzinV Offline
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Post: #301
RE: subterfuge journal
Haha what is a "cold read"..."time distortion"? Lol idk why your writing style makes me laugh. Sounds like a decent night tho
03-03-2019 07:22 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(03-03-2019 07:22 AM)cruzinV Wrote:  Haha what is a "cold read"..."time distortion"? Lol idk why your writing style makes me laugh. Sounds like a decent night tho

You must know what a cold read is, no? Have you read any game material at all? Basically appearing to know something deep about a girl you just met, thus building intrigue. It's nothing magical.

And time distortion is just the idea of moving a girl around to different venues to make it seem like you've known each other for longer in her head. Helps build comfort and stuff.

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
03-03-2019 08:34 AM
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Post: #303
RE: subterfuge journal
I didnt know what those terms meant, but they make sense.
03-03-2019 01:33 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
booked a flight for budapest in a few weeks. Staying in a hostel. Not expecting to get any luck with the young travellers, but live in hope! I guess just try to be friendly and if one seems into me, escalate

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
03-18-2019 12:51 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Budapest was super fun. I pulled 3 of the 4 nights!
A 7 English girl
An 8 German
A 6 Irish

I also met these 2 american dudes who were nuts. Complete slayers though. They both likely have lay counts of like 300+ i'm guessing.
It was so fun to hang with them and try to learn from them, although I think lots of the work was done for them as they're both very tall (like 6ft 3) and ripped. They're soldiers. But they were some of the most confident, charasmatic, funny dudes i've ever met. One was a but like Stevo from Jackass, and the other dude (who I pulled with twice) was a LOT like RSDJeffy. The way he spoke, his humour everything.

Some of the local girls walking around in the day time were just stunning. Like, I saw my idea of '10''s multiple times per day. Crazy. They all walk evrywhere and all seem to have fantastic bodies, pretty faces and nice eyes.

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2019 12:48 PM by subterfuge.)
04-05-2019 12:47 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(04-05-2019 12:47 PM)subterfuge Wrote:  Budapest was super fun. I pulled 3 of the 4 nights!
A 7 English girl
An 8 German
A 6 Irish

I also met these 2 american dudes who were nuts. Complete slayers though. They both likely have lay counts of like 300+ i'm guessing.
It was so fun to hang with them and try to learn from them, although I think lots of the work was done for them as they're both very tall (like 6ft 3) and ripped. They're soldiers. But they were some of the most confident, charasmatic, funny dudes i've ever met. One was a but like Stevo from Jackass, and the other dude (who I pulled with twice) was a LOT like RSDJeffy. The way he spoke, his humour everything.

Some of the local girls walking around in the day time were just stunning. Like, I saw my idea of '10''s multiple times per day. Crazy. They all walk evrywhere and all seem to have fantastic bodies, pretty faces and nice eyes.

Damn dude, you must be pretty good looking yourself if your pulled 3 chicks. I sometimes think about traveling but my damn job has no flexibility so i have to be a weekend warrior. Plus i wont be as well received like you pulling girls every night so not sure if its even worth it. Congrats tho man.
04-05-2019 01:26 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
With the first pull, I was flying solo, I just opened some girl and when she said she was from england, the conversation started flowing. I teased her about her accent and stuff and then started to pepper in some statements of intent. Aty one point our faces got close and I went for the kiss. Then pretended to disqualify myself as i'm too old fir her (she 19, me in my 30's although I told her I was 25). Then managed to get her away from hr frends, buy her a drink, and then pulled.

2nd night, I run into the 2 American dudes and just introduced myself and got chatting. They were making me crack up with their stories and they instantly invited me too an orgy that they were trying to line up!! That fell though, so we all went bar hopping together. First set they got blown out. The girl was from Norway, and maybe it's a cultural thing or maybe she's shy, but she was giving them nothing, and they bounced a few mins later.

Then the 2 hot German girls walked into the bar and I opened her with an observational opener as she was holding like a little plant or something! We all startted bantering, talking about where we were from etc, and at one point 'stevo' just grabbed her a stuck his tongue down her throat! I was so shocked and so was the girls friend, but I guess this is what gets him laid! The girl was actually into it, but then stevo got talking too anoher girl (not as hot) who he ended up banging, so now it's me and 'rsdjeffy' lol. I get talking to the other one and she asks whether i'm single and I go into some bullshit story about me dumping my girlfriend and soon after we are kissing. She leaves for a few seconds and I get talking to the other one. I turn around and now rsdjeffy is kissing the girl I just kissed, so I decided to try their style and went for an agressive attempt at a kiss close even though i'd barely had any IOI's. Just decided to go for it and it work, because 30 mins later, the 4 of us were in his room with the girls naked on our beds. The one he banged was almost crying though! I think at one point she wanted to leave once they'd finished banging, but he wanted to go again, and he starting fingering her and stuff and eventually she looked super flustered and tearful and both girls left.

3rd night 2 new girls arrived in the hostel and staying in my room. Sisters. Irish, A 6 and an 8. We were all playing drinking games and I was on form and coming out with lots of funny shit which I think made them kinda like me. I was trying to talk with the prettier one the most, and then lo-and-behold I bump into the 2 american dudes! I invited them into our groupfull of hot teenage girls and within a few minutes, stevo is kissing a hot, tall Dutch girl, and 'jeffy' is all over the prettier Irish girl. They were just talking about the usual stuff (what you do, name, age, where are you going to travel next bla bla) and I was waiting to see how he escalated as this dude is a freaking pro! I noticied that at one point he said ''I'm just going to the bathroom'' and then as he got up, he just grabbed her and kissed her. At that point I moved onto the other sister and we all went too a different bar. We were all dancing, I turn around and Jeffy is now grabbing his girl and kissing her, so I decided to again just go for it, and went for the kiss with my girl and again, it worked. This time I lost jeffy, but since the girl was sleeping my my freaking room, it was super easy, so I took her back. The one he banged thanked me for introducing them and said he was amazing in bed lol

Final night I really wanted to bang this super hot American girl (9?) but I just didn't have the balls. Plus she was flying out early in the morning and so wasn't really in the party mood and I just wasn't really able to make any headway with her. Sucked. She was very pretty.

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2019 01:38 PM by subterfuge.)
04-05-2019 01:36 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
1st and last approach of the night: Approached a fairly pretty girl with ''Are you checking your tinder?'' as she was scanning her phone. It's a bit of a hit-and-miss opener, but I tend to always go with it in that situation. I got luck and even though she had a boyfriend, she was one of those rare FRIENDLY UK girls and straight away she was like ''I'm with 2 hot single girls tonight, though. They'll be here in a sec''. And she wasn't kidding. Up stepped a hot blonde Margot Robbie type girl, and a girl who looked like porn star ''Bonnie Rotten'' complete with tattoos.

It was a perfect start but the only wingman I had left was my weirdest friend! Sad He was making the girls feel a bit weird with his manner and I was working double time to try to keep ALL of them happy. The girl I approached then bought us all shots whilst I flirted with her 2 hot friends. My wing is now pestering me to give him more money as he has none and wants more drinks (i've already bought him tonnes of drinks) and I don't want to queue up for ages and lose the girls and I tell him 'no' and he just carries on asking me every 4 minutes. He's killing my vibe a bit. Luckily he fukks off and i'm with the girls again, but I'm having to think of new ways to spark up convo each time and am getting the vibe now that they are slightly trying to get away and i'm chasing, but then I'm trying to be more persistent.

I 'open' again and me and the blonde are sitting down. I'm commenting on her friends tattoos and use that as an excuse to rub her arms and tell her she should get my name on her wrist. Then I say something to really 'spike' her emotions and she laughs loud and hits me on the arm school year style.

I sexualise it a bit more and then kinda go in for the kiss. She rejects it and moves her head and is like ''You gotta work harder than that. I'm not that kind of girl''. I tell her i'm not that kind of girl either, she laughes, and I carry on gaming her.

After 20 mins we're standing up, dancing, and I go in for the kiss again and she's a great kisser.

She lives close to me, but her 2 friends are visting from another city and so I had to somehow get back to her place, but I just could't make it happen. We actually all shared a cab, but when we got back to her place, she was super drunk, and I just couldn't get my way in their place.

In hindsight I should have used the 'use your bathroom' excuse, or maybe even tried it on with tattoo girl as I was feeling some pretty strong IOI's from her by this point.

No dice, though. She was very hot, though. Got her number and we text a little this morning, but I don't expect to see her again.

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
04-07-2019 04:01 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Grabbing someone who doesn't want to be grabbed would be classed as assault, just a heads up if you plan to employ the US Marine's tactics.
04-07-2019 11:28 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(04-07-2019 04:01 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  I 'open' again and me and the blonde are sitting down. I'm commenting on her friends tattoos and use that as an excuse to rub her arms and tell her she should get my name on her wrist. Then I say something to really 'spike' her emotions and she laughs loud and hits me on the arm school year style.

I sexualise it a bit more and then kinda go in for the kiss. She rejects it and moves her head and is like ''You gotta work harder than that. I'm not that kind of girl''. I tell her i'm not that kind of girl either, she laughes, and I carry on gaming her.

After 20 mins we're standing up, dancing, and I go in for the kiss again and she's a great kisser.

Way to push through! Seriously Sub... you're making leaps and bounds with your style of game and it's showing more and more with each post! Keep it up broda!

(04-07-2019 04:01 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  In hindsight I should have used the 'use your bathroom' excuse, or maybe even tried it on with tattoo girl as I was feeling some pretty strong IOI's from her by this point.

Yes! I use this as a last resort every time I drop a girl off, and I'd say it has gotten me a bang on more than a few occasions.

"How does one get off this thing?." ~ Marcus Brody

Fitness Thread: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-69404.html
04-08-2019 10:49 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(04-08-2019 10:49 PM)UniversalMen Wrote:  Way to push through! Seriously Sub... you're making leaps and bounds with your style of game and it's showing more and more with each post! Keep it up broda!

Thanks, man. I feel it all ebbs and flows (20 straight rejections next weekend?? Smile), but I did love how I hooked my only set of the night, and they were all very hot. I think maybe partly a result of them 4 nights in Budapest which forced me into a super social frame as I went by myself and was forced to make friends. Or possible simple luck that the girl I approached was a rare friendly/social girl who made it super easy for me.

As more memories come back to me, I also forget to mention a blatant amog attempt by some super annoying dude. He came into set and started off with a kind of compliment ''Look at you, man! You've got all the girls tonight'' and shortly after he was being kind of aggressive and asking me how much money i make, calling me out for being too old for the girl I was kissing bla bla bla, but I just literally picked the girl up and moved us both away from him by 3 feet and carried on talking complete nonsense in her ear to try to make him feel stupid lol. Gotta be careful though as around here, at that time of the night outside on the streets (where this happened), is where i've seen many nasty fights break out. He was a chavvy dude. Probably carrying a knife lol


And there was also another bit where me and the girl were kissing. I was up against the wall. I decided to switch it and move her against the wall and kiss her and as I done that, a group of lads walked passed me. Maybe to them it looked like i'd just grabbed some girl and was forcing her to kiss me (since they hadn't seen what was happening before) and they got super close and were shouting ''she doesn't want it mate!! Get off her!!!'' kind of thing! They moved along a few seconds after when they saw she was into it, but still. Lots of annoying dudes out that night!

Another memory is mid way through the set i'm at the bar to buy shots, and a female friend recognises me and gets talking to me, and then the girl I approached (the one with a boyfriend) just grabbed me and pulled me away from my friend lol. I guess to stop me going off with that girl and sticking with her friend? I super enjoyed that bit!!!

(04-08-2019 10:49 PM)UniversalMen Wrote:  Yes! I use this as a last resort every time I drop a girl off, and I'd say it has gotten me a bang on more than a few occasions.

Yeah, it was a kind of tough one. I think I just felt too creepy and pushy considering by this point (by the time our cab got to her house), the girl I had been kissing seemed to suddenly get way drunk/tired in the cab and I guess her friends were on the lookout for her, even though they were both rooting for me, and giving me her (my targets) number! (even though she's already given me her number earlier). The other 2 girls were gonna have some drinks at the targets house whilst, presumably, 'my' girl was gonna go to sleep. Still should have used the bathroom excuse and then decided whether to try to stick or move onto the hot tattood girl who I certainly feel like I had a shot with. Could be wrong, but that's how it felt. I still have a resistance toimiposing myself on people, being pushy, don't wanna look like some annoying dude who can't take a hint etc. I guess there's a fine line!

ps - thanks for replying. I note i'm talking to myself more and more in this journal and maybe people are bored with it now, although tbh, I don't really mind. It IS honestly mainly for myself at this point, but still nice to interact with others from time to time

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2019 03:21 AM by subterfuge.)
04-09-2019 03:13 AM
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Post: #312
RE: subterfuge journal
Sub, that's a great line 'I'm not that kind of girl either'. I'll definitely remember that. I'm jealous of your weekend away in Budapest. I need something like that to happen to me.

I also identify with the not wanting to be too pushy/creepy thing. I don't know if it's a limiting belief I should ditch. And if I do will I turn into one of those scummy guys no one likes?
04-09-2019 04:53 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(04-09-2019 04:53 PM)Henry Chinaski Wrote:  Sub, that's a great line 'I'm not that kind of girl either'. I'll definitely remember that.
I'm jealous of your weekend away in Budapest. I need something like that to happen to me.

I also identify with the not wanting to be too pushy/creepy thing. I don't know if it's a limiting belief I should ditch. And if I do will I turn into one of those scummy guys no one likes?

Yeah, Budapest was super fun. I put it off for ages. If you look through my post history, i'm pretty sure i've been wanting to do it for like over a year, but kept putting it off as really wanted to go with friends or something as opposed to on my own, but in the end it was so much fun. I do think I got a bit lucky though in terms of meeting them 2 crazy Americans. They were something else!! Without meeting them, I wouldn't have had any success with the Irish girl or the German girl at a guess. They were a social storm!

I kinda wanna do it again. Either Budapest again or maybe Krakow. You can come Smile

Yeah, the creepy/pushy thing is a fine line. I think I had even more internal resistance due to worrying about her friends possibly judging me for being pushy. If she was on her own and we were in a cab, I think i'd have likely tried harder to get in her house.

Also, I feel like i'd already used up some of my 'creep' allowance by getting in the cab. I didn't make it very clear in my FR reading it back, but basically I found out the target lived near me, and I more or less just jumped in their cab when it arrived. In fact, I think someone (maybe the target?!) might have even said something like ''What's this guy doing?!!'' lol.

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
04-09-2019 05:05 PM
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Henry Chinaski Offline
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RE: subterfuge journal
Might take you up on that offer! Been on a dry spell for months.

Had a couple of solid prospects recently that feel apart at the last minute. I pretty much only approach foreign girls these days. So much easier to talk them than my own women (Irish).
04-09-2019 05:16 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(04-09-2019 03:13 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  Thanks, man. I feel it all ebbs and flows (20 straight rejections next weekend?? Smile)

Hahaha! I lost count on how many times I have been rejected. I think at one point, in my early days of learning game, was to make it a point to get rejected. I'm not kidding, I would purposely go out of my way to get rejected. It's what helped me get over my anxiety of talking to beautiful girls.

(04-09-2019 03:13 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  As more memories come back to me, I also forget to mention a blatant amog attempt by some super annoying dude. He came into set and started off with a kind of compliment ''Look at you, man! You've got all the girls tonight'' and shortly after he was being kind of aggressive and asking me how much money i make, calling me out for being too old for the girl I was kissing bla bla bla, but I just literally picked the girl up and moved us both away from him by 3 feet and carried on talking complete nonsense in her ear to try to make him feel stupid lol.

Well played. I've been lucky to not have been in a fight because of some asshole but I have had my fair share of cockblocks.

(04-09-2019 03:13 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  The other 2 girls were gonna have some drinks at the targets house whilst, presumably, 'my' girl was gonna go to sleep. Could be wrong, but that's how it felt. I still have a resistance toimiposing myself on people, being pushy, don't wanna look like some annoying dude who can't take a hint etc. I guess there's a fine line!

You may have dodged a rape accusation. So, that was smart to take the high road. You'll have a similar chance with a girl that is still in her senses, another day.

(04-09-2019 03:13 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  ps - thanks for replying. I note i'm talking to myself more and more in this journal and maybe people are bored with it now, although tbh, I don't really mind. It IS honestly mainly for myself at this point, but still nice to interact with others from time to time

Exactly, it is a journal for you to note all of your progress. Research and Development is key to any great success. I have plenty of posts on my fitness thread where I am only talking to myself but I keep putting in updates as often as I can.

"How does one get off this thing?." ~ Marcus Brody

Fitness Thread: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-69404.html
04-09-2019 11:43 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
I've been reading this thread a lot before registering.

One thing that keeps cropping up is that you keep saying the women you've interacted with were teenagers.

My question is, how do you tell this without directly asking their age.
04-11-2019 11:38 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
proud of my courage last night, but no success to speak of.

First set was a 2-set. One pretty and one not so pretty. We'd been standing near them for a while, but nobody had the balls to open, so I went up to them and made a comment on her dress (only 'stock' opener I tend to use that sometimes lends itself too an actual conversation which is half of the battle here) and we got to chatting. Found out about them, made some jokes, brought up topics that I could DHV from. To be honest, I feel I done well, but I never sense much attraction from my target. My wing eventually joined me. Not my ideal wing as he tend to get a little 'competitive' and will take any opportunity to put me down in set to make him look better lol. Nothing vicious, but just little barbed remarks here and there. We invited them to join us at the next bar. They said they'd find us.

Next I Opened a 3 set. This was a table of 8.5's! All about 18 and super hot. I was feeling brave last night for some reason and I actually went in with an old school opinion opener! Nobody uses them anymore and I do find them a bit cringey at times, but for groups, I find they feel more natural and tend to land better. We got talking about the opener and I had all of them asking me questions and stuff and it was a decent set again, but it just kind of didn't go anywhere. In hindsight I guess I should have actually CHOSEN a girl (they were all so damn hot that my attention was scattered!) and made a few statements of intent. After a while it kind of fizzled out. My friends still hadn't joined me, and I just bailed when i'd eventually kind of ran out of things to say

Next bar the girls from the first set walk in and stand near us. We open them again but for some reason it feels much harder this time. I was probably a bit too drunk now too, but they (especially my target) seemed kind of guarded. I honestly don't remember how it ended with them 2, tbh.

Then went back to my home town (all of this was out of town) and burnt down my regular venue with some fairly direct approaches, but didn't get any bites.

My journal : https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-57783.html
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2019 08:07 AM by subterfuge.)
04-14-2019 08:05 AM
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RE: subterfuge journal
Nice subterfuge. Good progress. What are these old school openers you're talking about. Also, where do you find the pre cooked openers. Situational openers are obvious but please tell about these canned lines.

Have you figured any ways to prevent fizzling out of the conversation. Also, what do you do when you approach with a line and the girl makes a negative comment / sarcastic comment. I am not good with words and I am not able to reply with a good comeback.
04-14-2019 01:00 PM
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RE: subterfuge journal
(04-14-2019 01:00 PM)nirala Wrote:  Nice subterfuge. Good progress. What are these old school openers you're talking about.

In this FR It was just the classic 'is kissing cheating?' I think, lol. Super old-school and known by every PUA dude in the world whose read any older material. I actually tend to hate opinion openers, although i've started intriducing them from time to time when opening groups. I find that for some reason using it on a girl on her own, it just seems to die so fast and and I often find myself wishing i'd have opened with something else. Even going super direct! I just feels like it makes 'transitioning' harder in them instances

(04-14-2019 01:00 PM)nirala Wrote:  Also, where do you find the pre cooked openers. Situational openers are obvious but please tell about these canned lines.

I don't really tend to use many pre-cooked openers, tbh. One of the only ones I do use is if she's on her phone texting, i'll ask if she's checking her stocks, or whether she's checking her tinder. Very hit and miss, but when she bites, it can be good as you can try to force a talk about 'dating' which is good! Puts you 10 moves ahead straight away as the topic lends itself to sexualisation and it makes flirting easier etc. But most of my openers are just comments on her outfit/observational openers, or sometimes just being like ''Hi!!! what's up?'' and then going straight into a cold read or something.

(04-14-2019 01:00 PM)nirala Wrote:  Have you figured any ways to prevent fizzling out of the conversation.

Honestly, not really. It's something i still struggle with, but i'm starting to think it's just natural and that i'm not doing anything 'wrong', really. Like, you can only talk too a brick wall for so long. If they aren't interested in you, they rarely contribute to the conversation at all which makes it hard for even the best conversationalist to keep going and going! If a homeless guy comes up to me and starts chatting and asking me things etc, no matter how 'good' he is, i'm just not gonna properly engage him. I'll offer him no conversational 'threads'.



(04-14-2019 01:00 PM)nirala Wrote:  Also, what do you do when you approach with a line and the girl makes a negative comment / sarcastic comment. I am not good with words and I am not able to reply with a good comeback.

Happens lots. Probably moreso here in the UK than most places tbh. We're not very social with strangers like Americans are for example. Depends on whether she's being outright negative or if she's kind of playing/sarcastic. If so, i'll agree and amplify as per PUA wisdom lol. If she's just being a b1tch, i'll bounce almost instantly. She's not interested. And nothing i say will change her mind. Next!!
04-14-2019 03:34 PM
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