Post: #1

Reuters Wrote:(Reuters) - Italy's prime minister on Thursday poured cold water on a campaign promoted by his health minister aimed at convincing couples to have more children.

"I don't know of any of my friends who had kids after they saw an advertisement," Matteo Renzi said in a radio interview.

He was speaking a day after the ministry announced it would host meetings in four cities to encourage couples to have children. Italy has an aging population and the fertility rate in Italy last year was 1.35 children per woman, compared with an EU average of 1.6.

In 2015, fewer babies were born in Italy than in any year since the modern state was founded 154 years ago, and the population shrank for the first time in three decades.

"If you want to create a society that invests in its future and has children, you have to make sure the underlying conditions are there," such as making sure the parents have stable jobs and day-care services, Renzi said.

Health Minister Beatrice Lorenzin launched the campaign on Wednesday with the @FertilityDay Twitter handle and a series of online ads.

One pictured a woman holding an hourglass next to the words: "Beauty has no age limit. Fertility does." Another pictured a man holding a half-burned cigarette. "Don't let your sperm go up in smoke," it said.

The Fertility Day campaign also set off criticism on social media for appearing to blame women for putting off child-bearing, and for appearing not to understand the real causes for Italy's low birth rate.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN11757W

Basically, lefties are calling the effort sexist and fascist.

Apparently it has gone viral and spawned a bunch of spoof memes.

Post: #2

Curious what the "experts" think the "real" reason is for low birthrate if not for women putting off children until too late or all together...

Post: #3

(Yesterday 04:24 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Curious what the "experts" think the "real" reason is for low birthrate if not for women putting off children until too late or all together...

It's not all feminism, though. Raising kids is getting to be super expensive. In Italy, it's not uncommon for dudes to still be living with their parents well into their 30s, and it's not necessarily because they're losers but because there aren't enough decent jobs around to afford renting your own place.

Post: #4

No honest effort to boost population of Europeans and stem decadence shall go unpunished

Post: #5

Mandingo is right, in southern Europe (Spain, Italy, Greece), young people really want to get married and women are more feminine than in northern Europe. They are mostly prevented from this by economic rather than cultural forces. Not the same thing in N. Europe and N. America where it's more about feminism wrecking families.

That's why I think southern Europe/northern mediterranean is a good place to look for a wife.

Post: #6

Disagree about Southern Europe, those girls are just as feminist. Just because they dress nice and don't cut their hair short doesn't mean they aren't feminist. Many of them have chosen to delay marriage and children just like their western counterparts.

I agree it plays a minor role, but If it were all about economics, some of the poorest countries wouldnt have some of the highest birth rates.

Nothing is really stopping people from getting married, you don't have to have kids to do it. Yet average age of marriage is just as high as in Spain and Italy then everywhere else in Europe.

Post: #7

(Yesterday 04:53 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(Yesterday 04:24 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Curious what the "experts" think the "real" reason is for low birthrate if not for women putting off children until too late or all together...

It's not all feminism, though. Raising kids is getting to be super expensive. In Italy, it's not uncommon for dudes to still be living with their parents well into their 30s, and it's not necessarily because they're losers but because there aren't enough decent jobs around to afford renting your own place.

Italy's entire economy is about one bank error away from an entire collapse right now. Several of their large banks are under water and they have been in trouble for a long time, and many have never recovered from before the last crash in 2008. They have really had financial trouble there for the last several decades, and for one of the top 10 economies in the world, it's very bad news for the rest of us thanks to our globalized financial system being so closely tied together.

Post: #8

(Yesterday 07:10 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  

(Yesterday 04:53 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(Yesterday 04:24 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Curious what the "experts" think the "real" reason is for low birthrate if not for women putting off children until too late or all together...

It's not all feminism, though. Raising kids is getting to be super expensive. In Italy, it's not uncommon for dudes to still be living with their parents well into their 30s, and it's not necessarily because they're losers but because there aren't enough decent jobs around to afford renting your own place.

Italy's entire economy is about one bank error away from an entire collapse right now. Several of their large banks are under water and they have been in trouble for a long time, and many have never recovered from before the last crash in 2008. They have really had financial trouble there for the last several decades, and for one of the top 10 economies in the world, it's very bad news for the rest of us thanks to our globalized financial system being so closely tied together.

Amen, amico!

Italy suffers from gross mismanagement at nearly every level. Forget everything else, they should be swimming in prosperity just from their tourism industry alone. Add in their other industries, such as agriculture, fashion, automotive, etc. and they should be a true economic shining star of Europe and the world.

Instead, they literally can't get out of their own way. It's sad to see our homeland in such a state.

Post: #9

I think that's bull. The whole myth of planning reproduction around what is more fiscally responsible; normal people don't do that. I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing about social aid benefits in Southern European countries or whether or not having children actually drive people into pverty, but being poor never stopped people from fucking and making babies. Actually the poorest people tend to have the highest birthrates. Go figure.

It's cultural, not financial.

Post: #10

(Yesterday 04:53 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Raising kids is getting to be super expensive.

Is it really? Or is it only expensive if one follows a blue pill script?

If a family removes the needs for:

- Fancy / new children clothes (because children grow fast and don't need new clothes all the time) - either wear hand-me-downs, op-shops or the mother makes them
- Shiny new toys (because children can have fun with self-made toys - I see kids enjoy playing with leaves off a tree more than expensive toys)
- Dumb ipads and the likes
- Store bought foods / eating out for children (because the mother should cook)
- Stupid useless classes (the parents should be able to teach them better at home)
- Lame private schooling that no longer teaches them anything useful
- College funds - because college/university is a rip off these days

where is this great expense?

Kids don't eat much food, don't wear much clothes, don't need any money or materials to have a good time, can learn plenty from the world and from free books because they are naturally curious. They shouldn't be super expensive to raise.

Post: #11

Well the economic situation there doesn't help things, it's all smoke and mirrors right now all the good jobs are with the banks and the banks are going under. Regular shit in Italy is a lot more expensive than it used to be since they went to the Euro. I won't say that's the whole reason the birthrate is so low, I think it is a large cultural problem there right now as well. The people are still very traditional, but as the Roman Catholic church has morphed into a social justice religion of faggotry and muslim submission, the people who take their lead so closely from the church have been lead astray. Italy also suffers from the same sort of WW2 depression and guilt that Germany is currently experiencing, and are so afraid of their own Mussolini to Germany's Hitler that they bend over backwards to be super progressive and PC as well. The older (infertile) women are still very old fashioned and traditional and easy to talk to, but the younger women there seem a lot more terrified of normal social interactions than they used to be, thanks to feminism they have been socially conditioned to be so isolated and afraid of nearly every man that they come across.
It's a lot more than feminism, but it all ties together, it's a perfect storm for societal collapse.

Post: #12

(Yesterday 07:49 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  Well the economic situation there doesn't help things, it's all smoke and mirrors right now, and regular shit in Italy is a lot more expensive than it used to be since they went to the Euro. I won't say that's the whole reason the birthrate is so low, I think it is a large cultural problem there right now as well. The people are still very traditional, but as the Roman Catholic church has morphed into a social justice religion of faggotry and muslim submission, the people who take their lead so closely from the church have been lead astray. Italy also suffers from the same sort of WW2 depression and guilt that Germany is currently experiencing, and are so afraid of their own Mussolini to Germany's Hitler that they bend over backwards to be super progressive and PC as well. The older (infertile) women are still very old fashioned and traditional and easy to talk to, but the younger women there seem a lot more terrified of normal social interactions than they used to be, thanks to feminism they have been socially conditioned to be so isolated and afraid of nearly every man that they come across.

^^That's some hardcore truth right there, paisano!

Post: #13

"I think that's bull. The whole myth of planning reproduction around what is more fiscally responsible; normal people don't do that. I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing about social aid benefits in Southern European countries or whether or not having children actually drive people into pverty, but being poor never stopped people from fucking and making babies. Actually the poorest people tend to have the highest birthrates. Go figure."


You've never heard anyone say "We couldn't afford to have kids?"
Or "We couldn't afford to have another kid?"

Post: #14

Yeah people say it all the time these days. That doesn't change the truth of what I said. That's what I'm getting at. This "fiscally responsible family planning" is a modern day thing. It came from this social programming where middle class people think having children is insanely expensive for some reason. We live in an age where it is the easiest to have children. So many nations, especially Western nations, have amazingly helpful social aid programs. Too helpful even to the point where I have personally known people who actually get knocked up intentionally so they can get more handouts and monthly benefits from the state.

Post: #15

How about the fact that nobody wants to raise kids in a shit neighborhood with shit schools? And childcare costs? Its harder now to raise a family on a one income household, which means either the wife works and you pay childcare, or you move to a lower income area and squeeze by. If you are not paying for private school, and you live in a low income area, then guess what. . .your kids education will probably suck.

Post: #16

(Yesterday 09:05 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Yeah people say it all the time these days. That doesn't change the truth of what I said. That's what I'm getting at. This "fiscally responsible family planning" is a modern day thing. It came from this social programming where middle class people think having children is insanely expensive for some reason. We live in an age where it is the easiest to have children. So many nations, especially Western nations, have amazingly helpful social aid programs. Too helpful even to the point where I have personally known people who actually get knocked up intentionally so they can get more handouts and monthly benefits from the state.

I agree with you, it's amazing how in only a few generations, social conditioning has subverted thousands of years of reproductive and evolutionary instinct.

If population reduction was the ultimate goal, it's amazing how "the elites" have duped us into thinning ourselves out through cultural programming.

Post: #17

It's hard if you're a striver.