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Drug Policy
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #351
RE: Drug Policy
(01-16-2017 09:51 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Stoner logic suffers from serious lack of nuance regarding punishment.

Rob Banks mentions "jailing women who have premarital sex" (and he defends Muslims who perform "honor killings" of women who were raped,...

For the last time, I did not defend Muslims who perform "honor killings." I was comparing Muslim "honor killings" to draconian prison sentences (up to and including execution) for drug dealers/users, which are both bad things in my opinion.

Just because I think Muslims have a "right" to perform honor killings in their own countries (i.e. the U.S. shouldn't send troops in to stop them from doing it) doesn't mean I'm "defending" the practice.

You and Leonard are taking my words out of context. I do not "defend" or "support" Muslim honor killings. I was clearly comparing honor killings (and the idea of jailing women who have premarital sex) to draconian drug laws, which are all bad things in my opinion.

(01-16-2017 09:51 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  ...but he doesn't consider things like mild mockery and refusal to associate (which are the primary punishments for drug users).

What do you mean by this? I am okay with people mocking and refusing to associate with drug users. I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

(01-16-2017 09:51 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Leonard started a thread asking whether libertarianism stems from a severe lack of masculinity, and Rob Banks' argumentation style supports that generalization.

You should check out what I actually wrote in that thread before making generalizations like that.

Just because I don't support drug prohibition doesn't mean I'm some lefty modern libertarian. I don't even call myself a "libertarian" because of what that word has come to mean.

If "libertarianism" (i.e. belief in freedom and minimal government) stemmed from a severe lack of masculinity, then I suppose the U.S. Founding Fathers must have really lacked masculinity.

There's no way of knowing what the Founding Fathers would have thought of modern drug policy, but they were definitely quite "libertarian" (as defined above) for their time, and they certainly didn't lack masculinity.

The word "libertarian" has been tainted by cucks who voted for Gary Johnson, hate Trump, and think "freedom" means open borders, gay acceptance, and child transsexualism.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2017 12:34 AM by Rob Banks.)
01-16-2017 11:44 PM
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Meat Head Offline
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Post: #352
RE: Drug Policy
I have asked this question a couple of times and no one has answered me. What is your opinion on giving drug merchants the death sentence?

Beliefs are more powerful than facts.
01-17-2017 04:04 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #353
RE: Drug Policy
You see, this is where libertarians tend to shit the bed and pretend it's a feature, not a flaw.

They'll quote the founding fathers that "All men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

First amendment.
Second amendment.
Non-aggression.
Non-intervention.
Principles, principles, blah blah blah.

But apparently that all comes to a screeching halt somewhere at the edge of international waters where at some point women become possessions and being raped is an acceptable reason to be executed.

Quote:I support the right of someone like Duterte to execute drug dealers in his country if he feels it is necessary. I also support the right of Muslims to perform "honor killings" if a woman engages in premarital sex, if they feel it is necessary to discourage their women from becoming sluts. But I sure as hell don't want any of these things being done in the U.S.

Then guys like me waste inordinate amounts of time trying to untangle the twisted mental premises that lead to these kind of contradictions, which is doubly difficult because despite having no trouble with my reading comprehension in other threads I seem to be constantly misinterpreting you, Banks.

I'm done with this thread. I have real life dramas to attend to and I'm tired of leading horses to water only for them to decide they'd rather eat rocks. It was useful to the degree that Ghost Tiger imparted upon me some real wisdom. See, that's the difference. I was where you decriminalists were and then when I opened myself to some real world perspective I realised I was wrong.

But decrimninalists like communists are forever trapped in the fantasy land of academia, where the wisdom of age is forbidden, there are no such things as unintended consequences and human nature is of no relevance.

The friends-of-pot movement had failed to win me back.

I'm out.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2017 04:10 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
01-17-2017 04:09 AM
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Post: #354
RE: Drug Policy
(01-17-2017 04:04 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  I have asked this question a couple of times and no one has answered me. What is your opinion on giving drug merchants the death sentence?

Kill 'em all.

Let God sort 'em out.

"If we took away women's right to vote, we'd never have to worry about another Democrat president."

- Ann Coulter
01-17-2017 04:21 AM
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Marshall D. Teach Offline
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Post: #355
RE: Drug Policy
Rob Banks, I suggest you disengage Leonard D Neubache because there is no way he's ever going to regard your point of view, no matter how consistently you logically present it. You're wasting your time.

At this point...
(01-11-2017 05:41 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Fact: I don't like pot-heads

Fact: I am entitled to my opinion and entitled to affect its pursuance politically.

Fact: The above two facts are facts.

Fact: The third fact is also factual in nature.

...you could very much conclude that this had ceased to be an intellectual argument surrounding the drug policy and its effects, and had become something else entirely.
01-17-2017 07:23 AM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #356
RE: Drug Policy
(01-17-2017 07:23 AM)Marshall D. Teach Wrote:  Rob Banks, I suggest you disengage Leonard D Neubache because there is no way he's ever going to regard your point of view, no matter how consistently you logically present it. You're wasting your time.

At this point...
(01-11-2017 05:41 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Fact: I don't like pot-heads

Fact: I am entitled to my opinion and entitled to affect its pursuance politically.

Fact: The above two facts are facts.

Fact: The third fact is also factual in nature.

...you could very much conclude that this had ceased to be an intellectual argument surrounding the drug policy and its effects, and had become something else entirely.

I don't care if he agrees with me or not at this point. To be honest, I see his point. Drug use and violent crime would go way down if we decided to execute all drug dealers and sentence drug users to mandatory 20-year prison terms for a first offense, with execution for any subsequent offenses (and yes, I know Leonard did not specifically advocate for the execution of all drug dealers). I just happen to disagree with him. I would rather have a government that did not meddle so much in the private lives of citizens, even if it meant there would be more drug addicts on the streets.

I just don't like being taken out of context and being told that I won't be taken seriously because I'm "the guy who supports Muslim honor killings" when I clearly don't support them. That's the reason I felt the need to respond to Leonard's recent posts.

I'm sitting here trying to have an actual debate about drug policy. It seemed to be going well for a while. However when the drug prohibitionists run out of arguments, they seem to resort to name-calling and attempting to discredit the speaker.

Because I support legalization, everything I say is supposedly "stoner logic." My "argumentation style" supposedly "lacks masculinity." I've been accused of being high on drugs while posting, and I've been accused of supporting Muslim honor killings. Leonard even straight-up said to me "no one will take you seriously from now on because you're the guy who supports Muslim honor killings."

No one has responded to my most recent arguments. No one responded to the Milton Friedman video I posted (he has some really good arguments for why drug prohibition is harmful even to those who don't use drugs).

The fact that the prohibitionists are taking the time to insult and attempt to discredit me, but not taking the time to actually rebut my arguments, is very telling.
01-17-2017 09:03 AM
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Different T Offline
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Post: #357
RE: Drug Policy
Quote:Leonard started a thread asking whether libertarianism stems from a severe lack of masculinity

This thread is inextricably bound up with that libertarianism thread. You have Leonard saying it's all about something called "the community" which is threatened by drug use and any means are justified to combat the problem. You have a guy (probably from Cali) saying that its about "his community" and Leonard's statements are a "declaration of war" against his community. Then you have them both "internet threatening" each other by invoking proxies of other men.

Then we get to Rob Banks saying that pre-marital sex is bad for the community (it's not clear if Leonard disagrees), so why not any means neccessary to fight that? Leonard replies with "You despicable Muzzie sympathist, this is a 'fuck drunk (or otherwise intoxicated on external substances) bitches forum'" and a come to Jesus moment.

Finally, we have Ghost Tiger's "Kill 'em all. Let God sort 'em out."

All of this would be LOL-entertainment if it weren't such an accurate depiction of America.
01-17-2017 09:37 AM
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Marshall D. Teach Offline
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Post: #358
RE: Drug Policy
(01-17-2017 09:03 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  I'm sitting here trying to have an actual debate about drug policy. It seemed to be going well for a while. However when the drug prohibitionists run out of arguments, they seem to resort to name-calling and attempting to discredit the speaker.

Its almost as if you're arguing with a typical feminist.


(01-17-2017 09:03 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  No one has responded to my most recent arguments. No one responded to the Milton Friedman video I posted (he has some really good arguments for why drug prohibition is harmful even to those who don't use drugs).

The closest you're going to get to a response is: "First question: who the fuck is Milton Friedman and why should we give a fuck about what he has to say on global drug policies?", or something of the sort, and then get referred to a psychiatrist. Sorry.
01-17-2017 10:57 AM
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Paracelsus Offline
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Post: #359
RE: Drug Policy
(01-17-2017 04:04 AM)Meat Head Wrote:  I have asked this question a couple of times and no one has answered me. What is your opinion on giving drug merchants the death sentence?

The way drug merchants seem to enjoy killing each other in places like Mexico it seems they don't have any problem with it.

Remissas, discite, vivet.
01-17-2017 10:19 PM
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Meat Head Offline
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Post: #360
RE: Drug Policy
Why do people do hard drugs like crack in the first place. Is it poverty? Genetics? Low iq? Environment?

Beliefs are more powerful than facts.
01-25-2017 05:39 AM
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xmlenigma Offline
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Post: #361
RE: Drug Policy
I am curious about ayahuasca.. Anyone try it here?

The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.
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01-27-2017 12:28 AM
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Paracelsus Offline
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Post: #362
RE: Drug Policy
(01-27-2017 12:28 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  I am curious about ayahuasca.. Anyone try it here?

Try this thread: https://www.rooshvforum.com/archive/inde...26640.html

Remissas, discite, vivet.
01-28-2017 05:43 AM
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MOVSM Offline
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Post: #363
RE: Drug Policy
Israel joins Netherlands and Portugal in decriminalizing weed. I think it is our turn to do so on a national level.

Israel gives green light to decriminalize marijuana use

Quote:By Maayan Lubell | JERUSALEM
The Israeli government voted on Sunday in favor of decriminalizing recreational marijuana use, joining some U.S. states and European countries who have adopted a similar approach.

"On the one hand we are opening ourselves up to the future. On the other hand, we understand the dangers and will try to balance the two," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told his cabinet in broadcast remarks.

According to the new policy, which must still be ratified by parliament, people caught smoking marijuana would be fined rather than arrested and prosecuted. Criminal procedures would be launched only against those caught repeatedly with the drug.

Selling and growing marijuana would remain criminal offences in Israel.

"Israel cannot shut its eyes to the changes being made across the world in respect to marijuana consumption and its effects," Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked said in a statement.

In the United States, 28 states have legalized marijuana for medical use and since 2012, several have also approved marijuana for recreational use.

Shaked said Israeli authorities would now put their focus on education about the possible harmful effects of drug use.

Marijuana use is fairly common in Israel. The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime has said that almost nine percent of Israelis use cannabis, though some Israeli experts believe the numbers are higher.

Israeli police figures showed only 188 people were arrested in 2015 for recreational use of marijuana, a 56 percent drop since 2010, and many of those apprehended in that time were never charged.

About 25,000 people have a license to use the drug for medicinal purposes in Israel, one of the world leaders in medical marijuana research.

In February, a government committee gave an initial nod for the export of medical cannabis, though final legislative measures will likely take months.

(Reporting by Maayan Lubell; Editing by Dominic Evans)

I am afraid that women appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty, more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters all the same. They love being dominated.
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03-07-2017 08:38 PM
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MOVSM Offline
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Post: #364
RE: Drug Policy
Signs of sanity:

Justin Amash Co-Sponsors Bill to End Federal Prohibition on Marijuana

Quote:The federal prohibition on marijuana has come under scrutiny over the past few years since the adoption of legalized marijuana across the country starting in the great state of Colorado.

While many Republicans are still hesitant to support the legalization of a drug that is deemed as toxic and dangerous as heroin, there are a few liberty-minded GOP members that fill it is time to stop the craziness that has plagued our war on drugs with the enforcement of marijuana laws across the country and the restriction of freedom.

Congressman Justin Amash has signed on to a new bill introduced in the House that would end the federal prohibition on marijuana in the United States.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-cong...Sort=alpha

Quote:“(a) Prohibition On Certain Shipping Or Transportation.—This Act shall not apply to marihuana, except that it shall be unlawful only to ship or transport, in any manner or by any means whatsoever, marihuana, from one State, territory, or district of the United States, or place noncontiguous to but subject to the jurisdiction thereof, into any other State, territory, or district of the United States, or place noncontiguous to but subject to the jurisdiction thereof, or from any foreign country into any State, territory, or district of the United States, or place noncontiguous to but subject to the jurisdiction thereof, when such marihuana is intended, by any person interested therein, to be received, possessed, sold, or in any manner used, either in the original package or otherwise, in violation of any law of such State, territory, or district of the United States, or place noncontiguous to but subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

Freedom is at stake in this country and it starts with pointless wars on our freedoms that have not produced any real results but instead incarcerated an entire generation of people for smoking a natural plant.

I am afraid that women appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty, more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters all the same. They love being dominated.
--Oscar Wilde
03-08-2017 02:50 PM
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Nowak Offline
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Post: #365
RE: Drug Policy
I favor decriminalization of marijuana and possibly other soft drugs.

Anti social behavior is what worries me the most.

Complete freedom for the individual leads to complete atomization of a society. Libertarianism at its pure extreme works under a society of Christian bachelors during peace time. Davis Aurini said this and he's correct.

As for a ''model'', I think drug policy in Austria works pretty well. Marijuana is decriminalized and there's no coffee shops near neighborhoods and other dwelling spaces/schools like in the Netherlands where its completely legalized for licensed merchants to sell.
03-13-2017 01:07 PM
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