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Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
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dsalsa Offline
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Post: #1
Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
I read some threads about Salsa and other dance styles, but still have second thoughts. Learning a dance style properly requires time and money, it's better to choose the right one in terms of game.

I've finished Linear Salsa(LA) basic course, but then participated in some Cuban Salsa(Casino) classes for another two months.
Cuban and LA are equally prevalent in my country, every Latin music club has both styles every week, many of them have also Bachata.

I feel that my level of LA is much higher than Cuban, the instructors of the latter were awful and male/female ratio wasn't that good, so I'm looking for a new place to dance and game.

The downside of the Casino is that some of the places are full of white knight geeks that like to dance Rueda and cock block each other.
LA is more formal, technical, less fun to dance, but at least it has no stupid Rueda.
I can't keep with both styles so I need to choose one in the new place that I plan to attend and take classes.

Another option is Bachata, better male/female ratio, women with better asses, more sensual, fun to dance. But I think it awkward to be a good Bachata dancer and a beginner level of Salsa.

I don't want to choose a dance style that is trendy like Kizomba and could disappear from the dance floor.
It's better to concentrate in one style and be one of the top dancers on the dance floor, than master of none.
It should be a dance style with good prospects of game in Russia and the rest of Europe(Eastern and Western).
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2016 08:17 AM by dsalsa.)
10-07-2016 08:08 AM
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Dalaran1991 Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(10-07-2016 08:08 AM)dsalsa Wrote:  I read some threads about Salsa and other dance styles, but still have second thoughts. Learning a dance style properly requires time and money, it's better to choose the right one in terms of game.

I've finished Linear Salsa(LA) basic course, but then participated in some Cuban Salsa(Casino) classes for another two months.
Cuban and LA are equally prevalent in my country, every Latin music club has both styles every week, many of them have also Bachata.

I feel that my level of LA is much higher than Cuban, the instructors of the latter were awful and male/female ratio wasn't that good, so I'm looking for a new place to dance and game.

The downside of the Casino is that some of the places are full of white knight geeks that like to dance Rueda and cock block each other.
LA is more formal, technical, less fun to dance, but at least it has no stupid Rueda.
I can't keep with both styles so I need to choose one in the new place that I plan to attend and take classes.

Another option is Bachata, better male/female ratio, women with better asses, more sensual, fun to dance. But I think it awkward to be a good Bachata dancer and a beginner level of Salsa.

I don't want to choose a dance style that is trendy like Kizomba and could disappear from the dance floor.
It's better to concentrate in one style and be one of the top dancers on the dance floor, than master of none.
It should be a dance style with good prospects of game in Russia and the rest of Europe(Eastern and Western).

Disclaimer: if you think about taking classes to game, forget it. Gaming in salsa / bachata is advanced social circle game with high risk of running into Lucifer daughters.

For the dance itself, if you took linear salsa, bachata will be a logical next step. I used to only dance salsa, now I dance only bachata. Music is better, girls are classier and more sensual, etc.

Salsa is much more common and dominant in club however, so you need to look around your scene and see which is more practical.

There's really only two questions that you have to answer for yourself:

1. Do you like the movements?

2. Do you like the music?

Ass or cash, nobody rides for free - WestIndiArchie
10-07-2016 09:42 AM
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Oz. Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
Learn to dance everything and be versatile is the best advice I can give you. Bachata is the easiest form in my opinion, there is a little more room for mistake and the spins are easier.

In Cuba, salsa and casino are viewed as two separate things. You either know how to dance salsa or casino or both. I suggest you learn salsa first after you learn bachata and afterwards learn casino. The latter is not linear and can prove more difficult if you don't know regular salsa. The spins can be more intricate and it is easier to get loss.

If you already have the basics down however just hit the club and stop spending money on classes, you will be surprised how many girls agree to dance. Don't beat around it just go up to a girl and ask her to help you practice your dancing or simply ask if she wants to dance

I am advising this because I know how to dance a lot of different dance styles.

(11-15-2014 09:06 AM)Little Dark Wrote:  This thread is not going in the direction I was hoping for.
10-07-2016 10:09 AM
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dsalsa Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(10-07-2016 09:42 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  
(10-07-2016 08:08 AM)dsalsa Wrote:  I read some threads about Salsa and other dance styles, but still have second thoughts. Learning a dance style properly requires time and money, it's better to choose the right one in terms of game.

I've finished Linear Salsa(LA) basic course, but then participated in some Cuban Salsa(Casino) classes for another two months.
Cuban and LA are equally prevalent in my country, every Latin music club has both styles every week, many of them have also Bachata.

I feel that my level of LA is much higher than Cuban, the instructors of the latter were awful and male/female ratio wasn't that good, so I'm looking for a new place to dance and game.

The downside of the Casino is that some of the places are full of white knight geeks that like to dance Rueda and cock block each other.
LA is more formal, technical, less fun to dance, but at least it has no stupid Rueda.
I can't keep with both styles so I need to choose one in the new place that I plan to attend and take classes.

Another option is Bachata, better male/female ratio, women with better asses, more sensual, fun to dance. But I think it awkward to be a good Bachata dancer and a beginner level of Salsa.

I don't want to choose a dance style that is trendy like Kizomba and could disappear from the dance floor.
It's better to concentrate in one style and be one of the top dancers on the dance floor, than master of none.
It should be a dance style with good prospects of game in Russia and the rest of Europe(Eastern and Western).

Disclaimer: if you think about taking classes to game, forget it. Gaming in salsa / bachata is advanced social circle game with high risk of running into Lucifer daughters.

For the dance itself, if you took linear salsa, bachata will be a logical next step. I used to only dance salsa, now I dance only bachata. Music is better, girls are classier and more sensual, etc.

Salsa is much more common and dominant in club however, so you need to look around your scene and see which is more practical.

There's really only two questions that you have to answer for yourself:

1. Do you like the movements?

2. Do you like the music?

I like the movements of all three styles and the music, but don't know what's the difference between linear and Cuban style music.

I do gaming in Salsa and it's fine.

I can't keep up with all the styles, it consumes too much time. One of the considerations is popularity of the dance style, the second is the type of people that dance it, I danced with too many fat chicks in Cuban classes.

(10-07-2016 10:09 AM)Oz. Wrote:  In Cuba, salsa and casino are viewed as two separate things. You either know how to dance salsa or casino or both. I suggest you learn salsa first after you learn bachata and afterwards learn casino. The latter is not linear and can prove more difficult if you don't know regular salsa. The spins can be more intricate and it is easier to get loss.

If you already have the basics down however just hit the club and stop spending money on classes, you will be surprised how many girls agree to dance. Don't beat around it just go up to a girl and ask her to help you practice your dancing or simply ask if she wants to dance

I am advising this because I know how to dance a lot of different dance styles.

What's the difference between Salsa and Casino in Cuba?
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2016 11:08 AM by dsalsa.)
10-07-2016 11:05 AM
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Vinny Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
Check my salsa datasheet.

Casino for Ukraine and Russia. I think they also dance casino in Colombia, but I am not sure about that.

For the rest of the world NY and LA.

Bachata is pretty universal.

In Europe it seems like Kizomba and Zouk are slowly taking over.
10-07-2016 12:15 PM
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Oz. Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(10-07-2016 11:05 AM)dsalsa Wrote:  What's the difference between Salsa and Casino in Cuba?

They are danced differently although you can dance both to the same song if you wanted. Salsa is generally more back and forth while Casino is side to side

Salsa:




Casino:



(11-15-2014 09:06 AM)Little Dark Wrote:  This thread is not going in the direction I was hoping for.
10-07-2016 12:26 PM
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dsalsa Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(10-07-2016 12:26 PM)Oz. Wrote:  
(10-07-2016 11:05 AM)dsalsa Wrote:  What's the difference between Salsa and Casino in Cuba?

They are danced differently although you can dance both to the same song if you wanted. Salsa is generally more back and forth while Casino is side to side

Salsa:




Casino:



Isn't it the same style? we call the first one Cuban or Casino and the second Rueda, Cuban Salsa classes teach the Rueda but we dance it in couples also.

I can learn Bachata at the same time with Salsa, but learning both styles of Salsa, LA(Linear) and Cuban wiil be too confusing. Which one is easier and faster to learn?
10-07-2016 01:32 PM
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dsalsa Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(10-07-2016 12:15 PM)Vinny Wrote:  Check my salsa datasheet.

Casino for Ukraine and Russia. I think they also dance casino in Colombia, but I am not sure about that.

For the rest of the world NY and LA.

Bachata is pretty universal.

In Europe it seems like Kizomba and Zouk are slowly taking over.

Thanks I read it, which one of the styles do you prefer?
No LA in Russia? that's a shame

I noticed that the advanced Salsa dancers do a different basic step, it looks like they step in the same place instead of the back and forth steps and have no pause on 4 and 8. Where can I learn that?
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2016 01:51 PM by dsalsa.)
10-07-2016 01:39 PM
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Oz. Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(10-07-2016 01:32 PM)dsalsa Wrote:  Isn't it the same style? we call the first one Cuban or Casino and the second Rueda, Cuban Salsa classes teach the Rueda but we dance it in couples also.

I can learn Bachata at the same time with Salsa, but learning both styles of Salsa, LA(Linear) and Cuban wiil be too confusing. Which one is easier and faster to learn?

It's two different ways to dance salsa basically, ignore the rueda though

Salsa originally for us is just using the back and forth steps. Once you start using the side steps and dancing loosely with your partner then that is when you start doing Casino

Casino can be learned quickly, in my opinion, I would suggest you go with that first.

(11-15-2014 09:06 AM)Little Dark Wrote:  This thread is not going in the direction I was hoping for.
10-07-2016 08:05 PM
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dsalsa Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
How about NY style?
10-09-2016 03:53 AM
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dsalsa Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
Is there Kizomba in Russia? It's a very simple dance with a nice rhythm. No spins and fast turns like in Salsa.
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2016 09:48 AM by dsalsa.)
10-31-2016 09:47 AM
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Kamikaze Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
There are a number of variables in deciding a dance style, if your ultimate objective is gaming:

1. The dance's 'personality.' Different dance styles have different personalities, and therefore attract different types of girls. Salsa is more athletic, less sensual, and more demanding of the guy than the girl, by a lot. Of the partner dances, salsa is the most inoffensive when it comes to invading a girl's personal space, and is also the hardest to learn for a guy, if you want to get to a good level. It also has the potential to be the most playful, easiest to have a jokester vibe, and to be disarming. It's less 'creepy.' Meanwhile, bachata and kizomba require less personal space, which can be good and bad. See below.

Look at the dances from a girl's perspective. Let's see what it means for a girl to be a salsa, bachata, or kizomba girl:

Salsa girl: "I am more interested in the athleticism of salsa and don't necessarily want to be grinded on the dance floor in public. I would rather dance bachata very close, in private." (for the record, this has happened to me. Pretty interesting dancing bachata naked.)
Bachata girl: "I love connecting with a random stranger in a sensual way. It's 'just dancing,' though. I don't really care for the frequent boners, but they're not enough to deny me my sensual dance."
Kizomba girl: "I feel the same as a Bachata girl, except Kizomba is even easier and more accessible to me."

See how each dance would attract VERY different girls and personalities? Personally, I have seen that salsa tends to attract nicer, homier, more traditional girls. Bachata tends to attract quite a few harlots and ugly feminists who get off on the thirst of guys they'd never receive in the real-world. They then get a chance to complain about bachata boners as it's a nice stroke of their ego.

2. Ratios. This varies from city to city, scene to scene. In my scene, Boston, you have more and better quality girls to choose from who dance LA/NY-style salsa, otherwise more accurately known as linear salsa. But overall the quality is pretty low. LA and NY style is danced on a line, while Cuban is danced rounded and not adhering to a strict line. However, if you go to Mongolia, the 'sensual bachata' and kizomba scene is really taking off. Every city is different, and for non-latino cities, a bit unpredictable.

3. What music do you like best? Whatever music you actually enjoy listening to in your free time is the style you are most going to enjoy practicing to.

4. What's easiest for guys? It goes in this order, from highest to lowest degree of difficulty: linear salsa, Cuban salsa/casino, bachata, kizomba. This ties into the perception of a girl towards you. Guys who are only good at kizomba or bachata run the risk of being perceived as skeavy/creepy. That's not necessarily accurate, but a guy who dances salsa well has a very different reputation than a bachatero. Again, it ties into the personality and difficulty of the dance.

5. Way, waaaay down the line... are you planning on staying in your city for the rest of your life? Or are you moving some place? Some places have better returns than others. As a direct example, I'll be moving to NYC or PR sometime within the next year or two. What dance can give me the best return on my investment? Without a doubt, it's salsa. Not only because of the girls that are already in the scene... most girls, especially regulars in any scene, are damaged goods. However... you can bring girls into a scene, and show that you have skills and have the ability to get pussy with or without them. Bringing them into the scene also helps you to avoid giving them that 'regular' stink. Salsa is also a lot more disarming... if your favorite brand of dancing is bachata, she might be a bit jealous about it.

Semi-final word of advice:

If you're going to pick up a dance, grab the bull by the horns. Practicing once a week is not enough. If you put in your time and practice 3+ times a week for a month or two, you will be better, MUCH better, than a guy who has danced 2-3 times a month for years.

Final word of advice:

AVOID THE REGULARS, especially when you're starting out. Shit, even when you're good as hell, it's advisable to avoid regulars. Then you start owing dances to all these girls who are good but don't necessarily look good, while you could be dancing with that cutie who's here for her first time and may never be coming back. Look at this graph:

[Image: learning_curve.jpg]

In case it needs spelling out, it will take a very long time for a guy to reach that level where he can even entertain an intermediate girl. So in the meantime, avoid them. The journey is long and arduous, unless you shorten your feedback loops like I mentioned in the semi-final note. Push through it. A burst of continuous dancing will make you a beast, quickly. But if you love the music, enjoy the feeling of the dance, and it fits your personality, there are few better ways to organically meet new girls.
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2016 11:27 AM by Kamikaze.)
10-31-2016 11:18 AM
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dsalsa Offline
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(10-31-2016 11:18 AM)Kamikaze Wrote:  There are a number of variables in deciding a dance style, if your ultimate objective is gaming:

1. The dance's 'personality.' Different dance styles have different personalities, and therefore attract different types of girls. Salsa is more athletic, less sensual, and more demanding of the guy than the girl, by a lot. Of the partner dances, salsa is the most inoffensive when it comes to invading a girl's personal space, and is also the hardest to learn for a guy, if you want to get to a good level. It also has the potential to be the most playful, easiest to have a jokester vibe, and to be disarming. It's less 'creepy.' Meanwhile, bachata and kizomba require less personal space, which can be good and bad. See below.

Look at the dances from a girl's perspective. Let's see what it means for a girl to be a salsa, bachata, or kizomba girl:

Salsa girl: "I am more interested in the athleticism of salsa and don't necessarily want to be grinded on the dance floor in public. I would rather dance bachata very close, in private." (for the record, this has happened to me. Pretty interesting dancing bachata naked.)
Bachata girl: "I love connecting with a random stranger in a sensual way. It's 'just dancing,' though. I don't really care for the frequent boners, but they're not enough to deny me my sensual dance."
Kizomba girl: "I feel the same as a Bachata girl, except Kizomba is even easier and more accessible to me."

See how each dance would attract VERY different girls and personalities? Personally, I have seen that salsa tends to attract nicer, homier, more traditional girls. Bachata tends to attract quite a few harlots and ugly feminists who get off on the thirst of guys they'd never receive in the real-world. They then get a chance to complain about bachata boners as it's a nice stroke of their ego.

2. Ratios. This varies from city to city, scene to scene. In my scene, Boston, you have more and better quality girls to choose from who dance LA/NY-style salsa, otherwise more accurately known as linear salsa. But overall the quality is pretty low. LA and NY style is danced on a line, while Cuban is danced rounded and not adhering to a strict line. However, if you go to Mongolia, the 'sensual bachata' and kizomba scene is really taking off. Every city is different, and for non-latino cities, a bit unpredictable.

3. What music do you like best? Whatever music you actually enjoy listening to in your free time is the style you are most going to enjoy practicing to.

4. What's easiest for guys? It goes in this order, from highest to lowest degree of difficulty: linear salsa, Cuban salsa/casino, bachata, kizomba. This ties into the perception of a girl towards you. Guys who are only good at kizomba or bachata run the risk of being perceived as skeavy/creepy. That's not necessarily accurate, but a guy who dances salsa well has a very different reputation than a bachatero. Again, it ties into the personality and difficulty of the dance.

5. Way, waaaay down the line... are you planning on staying in your city for the rest of your life? Or are you moving some place? Some places have better returns than others. As a direct example, I'll be moving to NYC or PR sometime within the next year or two. What dance can give me the best return on my investment? Without a doubt, it's salsa. Not only because of the girls that are already in the scene... most girls, especially regulars in any scene, are damaged goods. However... you can bring girls into a scene, and show that you have skills and have the ability to get pussy with or without them. Bringing them into the scene also helps you to avoid giving them that 'regular' stink. Salsa is also a lot more disarming... if your favorite brand of dancing is bachata, she might be a bit jealous about it.

Semi-final word of advice:

If you're going to pick up a dance, grab the bull by the horns. Practicing once a week is not enough. If you put in your time and practice 3+ times a week for a month or two, you will be better, MUCH better, than a guy who has danced 2-3 times a month for years.

Final word of advice:

AVOID THE REGULARS, especially when you're starting out. Shit, even when you're good as hell, it's advisable to avoid regulars. Then you start owing dances to all these girls who are good but don't necessarily look good, while you could be dancing with that cutie who's here for her first time and may never be coming back. Look at this graph:

[Image: learning_curve.jpg]

In case it needs spelling out, it will take a very long time for a guy to reach that level where he can even entertain an intermediate girl. So in the meantime, avoid them. The journey is long and arduous, unless you shorten your feedback loops like I mentioned in the semi-final note. Push through it. A burst of continuous dancing will make you a beast, quickly. But if you love the music, enjoy the feeling of the dance, and it fits your personality, there are few better ways to organically meet new girls.

I danced Salsa for some time, but I can't say that I like the music (I prefer Electronic music like House, Chillout, Ambient, Trance).

Bachata music is fine, but I enjoy Kizomba the most. Bachata is more popular and I'm not sure in what countries I can find Kizomba.





I think I need to dedicate my time to one style and dance it several times a week. Not sure which one it should be.
10-31-2016 01:06 PM
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Kamikaze Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
You're right you should pick one style. Some kizomba music is relaxing and dope. It's also the most 'synthetic' of the 3 forms of music discussed, meaning, it's digitized music produced in studios, rather than being played on instruments by musicians. If you prefer electronic music, kizomba is the closest you'll get to that. Then bachata, where RnB and pop remixes are more prevalent than salsa. There are remakes in salsa, but salsa and electronic music have very little in common. But as you've said, you don't want to dedicate your time to what could just be a fad. Is kizomba a fad? I don't know.

The music is an important issue, especially for us as men, who have to lead the dance, which is so much harder for us than what the girls have to do. I feel a cultural affinity to salsa, because I grew up listening to it, so it's natural for me to listen to it in my spare time. If you can't come up with a top 5 favorite songs in a certain genre, it is very, very unlikely you will put in the time required, as a guy, to get good. In fact, I would even advise against learning salsa, just because the return on investment is generally very low. You can get several easy bangs, but the quality won't be top top notch, and you have to get really, really good, even for that middling quality. Big caveat though, this is stateside. I've heard salsa in Eastern Europe and Russia can get you very, very nice returns. I.e., there are some damn fine women dancing salsa in EE and Russia.

Go out different nights in your city and observe people you think are good. Do you like the music? Sometimes danceable music is not the best listening music. There are salsa songs I love to listen to but not necessarily dance to, and vice-versa. Check out some videos on youtube of different popular dancers, dancing socially, and ask yourself if:

A. you like how they move,
B. you like the music,
C. you see yourself doing that. Do you WANT to do that.

Here are 5 examples of good leads of each of the different styles.

Linear salsa (on2, aka 'NY style')




Cuban (can be danced more on the street and less demanding of the girl). Very popular song, too... if you don't like the song, that's about as good as it gets for Timba, the music Cubans love to dance salsa/casino to.




This is more traditional bachata, aka, without so many zouk elements, which is what the newer 'sensual bachata' is doing... incorporating more stuff from Zouk. It's also what real bachata sounds like.




Now here's the newer, supposedly 'sensual bachata.' Note that the song is not actually bachata, it's a Beyonce remix, and their dancing incorporates a lot of Zouk. Spreading like wildfire and increasing in popularity every day, primarily because of this couple.




And finally, kizomba.




All 5 of those videos are examples of some of the best of the best in the world at what they do. They shouldn't be the only goal or model of course, but, if you don't like what they do, the attitude, or the music, then it's even more evidence it's not for you.
10-31-2016 01:54 PM
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RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(10-31-2016 01:54 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  You're right you should pick one style. Some kizomba music is relaxing and dope. It's also the most 'synthetic' of the 3 forms of music discussed, meaning, it's digitized music produced in studios, rather than being played on instruments by musicians. If you prefer electronic music, kizomba is the closest you'll get to that. Then bachata, where RnB and pop remixes are more prevalent than salsa. There are remakes in salsa, but salsa and electronic music have very little in common. But as you've said, you don't want to dedicate your time to what could just be a fad. Is kizomba a fad? I don't know.

The music is an important issue, especially for us as men, who have to lead the dance, which is so much harder for us than what the girls have to do. I feel a cultural affinity to salsa, because I grew up listening to it, so it's natural for me to listen to it in my spare time. If you can't come up with a top 5 favorite songs in a certain genre, it is very, very unlikely you will put in the time required, as a guy, to get good. In fact, I would even advise against learning salsa, just because the return on investment is generally very low. You can get several easy bangs, but the quality won't be top top notch, and you have to get really, really good, even for that middling quality. Big caveat though, this is stateside. I've heard salsa in Eastern Europe and Russia can get you very, very nice returns. I.e., there are some damn fine women dancing salsa in EE and Russia.

Go out different nights in your city and observe people you think are good. Do you like the music? Sometimes danceable music is not the best listening music. There are salsa songs I love to listen to but not necessarily dance to, and vice-versa. Check out some videos on youtube of different popular dancers, dancing socially, and ask yourself if:

A. you like how they move,
B. you like the music,
C. you see yourself doing that. Do you WANT to do that.

Here are 5 examples of good leads of each of the different styles.

Linear salsa (on2, aka 'NY style')




Cuban (can be danced more on the street and less demanding of the girl). Very popular song, too... if you don't like the song, that's about as good as it gets for Timba, the music Cubans love to dance salsa/casino to.




This is more traditional bachata, aka, without so many zouk elements, which is what the newer 'sensual bachata' is doing... incorporating more stuff from Zouk. It's also what real bachata sounds like.




Now here's the newer, supposedly 'sensual bachata.' Note that the song is not actually bachata, it's a Beyonce remix, and their dancing incorporates a lot of Zouk. Spreading like wildfire and increasing in popularity every day, primarily because of this couple.




And finally, kizomba.




All 5 of those videos are examples of some of the best of the best in the world at what they do. They shouldn't be the only goal or model of course, but, if you don't like what they do, the attitude, or the music, then it's even more evidence it's not for you.

Great examples, thanks.

I wish I knew more about the styles before I've started LA and Casino classes.

I like the last two, the music of the last is better of course. I don't like pop music but the Sensual Bachata is more impressive than Kizomba and that what I like also. So definitely Bachata or Kizomba.

Is Kizomba popular in Europe? FSU? US?
How about Sensual Bachata?
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2016 02:39 PM by dsalsa.)
10-31-2016 02:38 PM
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Kamikaze Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
I would say sensual bachata is definitely spreading faster than kizomba. But, again, it depends city to city. I can only speak to what I know... the kizomba scene here in the East Coast and NYC is much smaller. However, I don't know much about its popularity in Europe, FSU. I do think it is growing. Bachata, however, I know is huge in Spain and France at the very least. That couple I showed you is Spanish, and they are the major proponents of that brand of 'sensual bachata.'

Honestly if the music calls your attention and you like the dance, go for it. Whether a dance looks impressive is deceiving, it's about how the dance feels... and kizomba is a lot more relaxing than bachata. In fact from watching a few kizomba videos it has renewed my interest in it, jeje, maybe I will join you in your quest.

Long story short, go out in your city and see what's more popular. These scenes move through facebook a lot, meaning, all events are posted there for pretty much all cities. Find the best places in your city. When you know your city well, travel around and go to different kizomba/bachata nights, make some friends, ask them a bit more about those areas. You can even 'cold call' people from different cities on facebook through private messaging, IF they are visible in their scene and share their stuff... they can direct you to the right pages and links in their scene.

Once you get good enough, if you have cash, you can go to the numerous congresses and festivals dedicated to kizomba and/or bachata, and sometimes do a decent job there of finding girls. But again, you have to get really good, and at least there, you're sure to find a lot of people who love kizomba or bachata.

https://m.facebook.com/notes/la-epoca/ar...880971626/

Quote:Are Salsa/Bachata/Kizomba festivals really "sex festivals" under the guise of dancing and music and fun? According to several females - all of whom got pregnant while attending the same summer dance festival in Croatia just recently - they are. Not everyone sees it this way, so it depends on the experience of each person.

Just to reiterate, again... you have to get really fucking good to take advantage of that, like, instructor level.

Sorry I can't be of more help in FSU and Europe for kiz.
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2016 03:41 PM by Kamikaze.)
10-31-2016 03:39 PM
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elRey Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
I learned by just going to Colombia, making friends and just going to dance parties/clubs with Colombian friends 2+ times a week for a few months. Later on I took some more dance classes to learn more moves while I was still there. This helped somewhat.

But in Colombia, the vast majority of girls and guys are ridiculously good dancers. The parties are nuts. You ask a girl to dance, she knows you're a foreigner so she'll try and teach you a bit. It's hard because you have to lead. But ask your guy friends for help and they will guide you. When you go out to these dance parties which can potentially last 5+ hours, you get A LOT of dancing in very quickly. There were rare weeks where I was putting in over 20 hours of dancing just by going out so much.

Like language learning, getting natural at dancing is practice. But the key with getting better at dancing is always trying new moves you see. If you see a move you like, go up to the guy doing it and ask him to show you how it's done. It makes him feel good, his girl feel good, and you get to be social and learn something new. Number one tip.

Get decent in as many styles as you can I think, and then get good at what you like. I love being able to get up to dance at almost any song whether merengue/bachata/salsa and knowing I can really have fun, look good, and surprise the girl. The reality is that the skills are so transferable, so learn the harder dance (LA salsa) first if you have to pick.

I would say the goal for any guy is to move up the learning curve as fast as possible, and get to the point where you feel you have the right variety of moves + swagger to keep the novelty there for a few dances with a girl. If you either 1) dance too mechanically or 2) have a limited number of moves, the girl and you will get bored of each other. Once you are decent, you can chill out, it's like riding a bike. But unless you are better than most girls you dance with, you have to learn fast.

As an additional note, yes it will get you laid. The ability to escalate while I'm dancing is awesome 1) get closer 2) put hands where I want 3) faces close together (bachata mainly) 4) do a mad vuelta and get behind her and grind (bachata, merengue and reggaeton 5) go for kiss.

My progression is do a salsa/merengue/bachata dance, wait and talk or dance, then when a (2nd) bachata track comes on, go sexual and go for the kiss. Especially if you have impressed her (made her have lots of fun and made her feel good about how she moves), she will be comfortable and often be open for the kill.
10-31-2016 11:53 PM
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Heart Break Kid Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
Hey Kamikaze, are you based out in New York? Got any recommendations for places to learn Bachata?
11-01-2016 12:16 AM
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Kamikaze Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(11-01-2016 12:16 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  Hey Kamikaze, are you based out in New York? Got any recommendations for places to learn Bachata?

I don't live in NYC, but I go there on occasion, usually once a month, sometimes more, to take a few lessons and go to a few socials. But my specialty is salsa, not bachata. Obviously NYC is still a hub for bachata. But what type do you want to learn? I prefer the legit Dominican style, which is more footwork heavy, and dominates more in NYC because there are so many Dominicans there. It's the 3rd video I posted in my response, and it's actually that same exact couple, Alex Morel and Desiree Godsell. They're based in NYC. So are Edwin Ferreras and Daniela Grosso, who are very popular.





You can't go wrong with learning from either of those 2 guys, since they're both beasts, but also, actually, Dominican. jaja.

If you want more of the sensual bachata, you're a bit out of luck since that's not the prevalent style in NYC. You might have to go to someone like this:





Their site: http://www.sensualmovementstudio.com

They're modeling themselves after the sensual demigods Daniel and Desiree, so in NYC that might be the closest you'll get to that.

I'd feel remiss if I didn't mention that that shit is a bastardization of real bachata, but I digress.

______

Again, even in a hub like NYC, my strong recommendation is to avoid regulars. Use them to get better, nothing more. Most of them look like that girl in the last video, anyway. Around the entire freakin US, regulars are usually uglier or older washed up girls who are obsessed with dancing and have over-inflated egos for what they are. There's a bit of a screw loose for 99% of them. They will never understand that guys don't give a fuck if a girl can dance well or not... dancing is a positive attribute for guys, not girls. You will see more of these serious people at what people call 'socials.' However, if you go to any number of random Friday or Saturday nights where people play music and it's a normal crowd, and that happens a lot more in NYC than where I live... THAT'S where the gold is. Because there are beginners who actually enjoy dancing socially, and are usually much prettier than what you'd find at actual socials. When I've gone to NY I've been shocked at the incredibly poor returns dancing salsa could give you, in the REGULAR scene... unless you're really really into Asians... but I went to Washington Heights for a salsa night, and the Dominicanas, uuuuuuuuuufffffff.

[Image: giphy.gif]
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2016 05:52 AM by Kamikaze.)
11-01-2016 05:46 AM
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dsalsa Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
Checked some venues, Kizomba is full of regulars, it's like a small community that know each other
11-01-2016 10:00 AM
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Kamikaze Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(11-01-2016 10:00 AM)dsalsa Wrote:  Checked some venues, Kizomba is full of regulars, it's like a small community that know each other

You can't do anything there unless you pair up with a specific girl. Then when things inevitably end, it can either turn sour or you can stay friends and continue gaming others. Staying friends and ending on good terms while seeing each other frequently is advanced and most definitely not the norm, though I've managed to do it, after a period of instability. In all likelihood, if you burn your candle all the way through too early by jumping from girl to girl, there's no recovering for you in that scene.

Big caveat is, you can use those regulars ONLY to get better. Which is the conclusion I've come to. Make friends with them, get better, and use those skills on new girls. Do your very best to not fall for a regular, because it will poison your well. When you get very good, the tables actually switch, and you have to learn to play defense... because girls can be very aggressive in their pursuit of a guy who dances well and has his shit together. But you have to keep your eyes on the prize, keep getting better and only cash in your returns on a worthwhile investment.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2016 10:39 AM by Kamikaze.)
11-01-2016 10:29 AM
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dsalsa Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(11-01-2016 10:29 AM)Kamikaze Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 10:00 AM)dsalsa Wrote:  Checked some venues, Kizomba is full of regulars, it's like a small community that know each other

You can't do anything there unless you pair up with a specific girl. Then when things inevitably end, it can either turn sour or you can stay friends and continue gaming others. Staying friends and ending on good terms while seeing each other frequently is advanced and most definitely not the norm, though I've managed to do it, after a period of instability. In all likelihood, if you burn your candle all the way through too early by jumping from girl to girl, there's no recovering for you in that scene.

Big caveat is, you can use those regulars ONLY to get better. Which is the conclusion I've come to. Make friends with them, get better, and use those skills on new girls. Do your very best to not fall for a regular, because it will poison your well. When you get very good, the tables actually switch, and you have to learn to play defense... because girls can be very aggressive in their pursuit of a guy who dances well and has his shit together. But you have to keep your eyes on the prize, keep getting better and only cash in your returns on a worthwhile investment.

I found some places with Kizomba in Russia and even Ukraine, but I'll take Sensual Bachata lessons anyway. It's like learning Spanish instead of Portuguese, more countries speak Spanish.

No reason to take Kizomba classes, the dance is easy until you get to advanced level, so it's enough for the new girls.
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2016 03:55 AM by dsalsa.)
11-02-2016 03:47 AM
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Merenguero Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
(11-01-2016 05:46 AM)Kamikaze Wrote:  Again, even in a hub like NYC, my strong recommendation is to avoid regulars. Use them to get better, nothing more. Most of them look like that girl in the last video, anyway. Around the entire freakin US, regulars are usually uglier or older washed up girls who are obsessed with dancing and have over-inflated egos for what they are. There's a bit of a screw loose for 99% of them. They will never understand that guys don't give a fuck if a girl can dance well or not... dancing is a positive attribute for guys, not girls. You will see more of these serious people at what people call 'socials.' However, if you go to any number of random Friday or Saturday nights where people play music and it's a normal crowd, and that happens a lot more in NYC than where I live... THAT'S where the gold is. Because there are beginners who actually enjoy dancing socially, and are usually much prettier than what you'd find at actual socials. When I've gone to NY I've been shocked at the incredibly poor returns dancing salsa could give you, in the REGULAR scene... unless you're really really into Asians... but I went to Washington Heights for a salsa night, and the Dominicanas, uuuuuuuuuufffffff.

[Image: giphy.gif]

Agreed. In New York, a lot of the women who are serious latin dancers are really just dinosaurs from the disco era. They have some after work events during the week in and around midtown Manhattan and although those places can get really packed and usually or always have quality girls there, most of the women dancing are older and look like they have been going to those places forever. I think I'm saying the same thing that Kamikaze is saying that if you go to a Manhattan latin club on Friday and Saturday, those old ladies generally aren't there and it is a normal crowd that isn't part of the serious dance culture. I went to a few places like that a while back. They also have these latin dance cruises that go out of Manhattan for a few hours which I was going to try just for the hell of it, but never did. In Queens, I only found bailaderos, which although can sometimes be worth going to, are not great places to dance. I did not find any "normal" latin clubs in Queens.
11-02-2016 05:17 AM
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Kamikaze Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
^^ It's not only that serious dancers are old, it's that even the younger girls sometimes are just plain ugly, except for some of the Asians. Think about it... why is that?

In a megalopolis like NYC, pretty girls don't have to 'work' to get male attention. There are so many other opportunities to meet men and have different social circles, that the quality of young girl that takes up dancing as an obsession doesn't have many choices available to her. The exceptions are FOB Asians who struggle to break through in regular social circles due to cultural and language difficulties. Some of them can be cute.

Meanwhile, if you go dance salsa in smaller towns, sometimes a little Wednesday Latin night that attracts like 30 people is the highlight of their week, socially. You can find some decent girls there, sometimes. It's very hit or miss.

But yes, midtown Manhattan is usually where you'll find the ugly, serious dancers. I haven't ventured to too many of the different boroughs yet to see what they're like, on regular non-serious nights. However, here's one tip for nights like that:

For your first few dances, dance with an older lady. Like 45+. Basically, a woman you're clearly not going to bang. This gets eyes on you and is very disarming. It's also a test of how good of a dancer you are. It plays into some of their fantasies. If he can entertain that old lady, maybe he can entertain me in my old age.......?

Just finding those legit Latin nights is a little harder, because hardcore dancers won't share those events. Those type of events are 'beneath them.'
11-02-2016 09:22 AM
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dsalsa Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Salsa/Bachata classes, which style?
Does anyone know where can I find Salsa in Davao?
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2016 05:58 AM by dsalsa.)
11-16-2016 05:32 AM
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