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Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
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XPQ22 Offline
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-20-2016 06:55 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  Dude that is so much more difficult than just splitting it and then adding.

Try it like this....10% of 200....Easy, that's 20. so 20% = 10% + 10% -> 20 + 20 = 40.

We're doing the same thing, but just thinking about it a different way. Remember that for us the mental jump from 10% of 200 = 20 is indeed an easy one. It might not be for everyone not intimately familiar with percentages. I'm trying not to assume too much going in.

Also, splitting and adding immediately is not an easy extrapolation to unusual percentages. Sure 20% = 10% + 10% of 200 is easy. What's 19% of 200? Okay, 10% + 9%. What's 9% of 200, off the top of your head? Hmm..did you multiply 2 by 9 and say 18? Well, that's because you mentally did what I'm suggesting, but didn't consciously think about it.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2016 06:26 AM by XPQ22.)
10-21-2016 06:22 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-20-2016 09:09 PM)Vinny Wrote:  @ElFlaco: 250?
200/80=2.5 (1 percent)
2.5x20=50
200+50=250

Hey Vinny, how did you get that number right there?
10-21-2016 07:13 AM
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Easy_C Offline
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-20-2016 08:17 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  
(10-20-2016 06:55 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  That said.....you should PM me some more information about the role. If she's open to experienced hires (vets and such) I've got some people I can reach out to.

I'll mention it to her. I suspect she will be open to the idea. The pool of labor she is drawing on just isn't working out too well.

The position is in the fashion industry and relates to tracking inventory, shipments, processing custom documents, etc. Its a lot of number related grunt work.

Guys who work there get a bonus of ordering suit samples that just happen to be in their size.

Number related grunt work?

Guarantee I can find some people. I'd say call up some military placement offices and say that you want to hire people who had an MOS of 13D (look it up). Those guys can do number grunt work at a level that puts accountants to shame.
10-21-2016 09:35 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-21-2016 06:22 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  
(10-20-2016 06:55 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  Dude that is so much more difficult than just splitting it and then adding.

Try it like this....10% of 200....Easy, that's 20. so 20% = 10% + 10% -> 20 + 20 = 40.

We're doing the same thing, but just thinking about it a different way. Remember that for us the mental jump from 10% of 200 = 20 is indeed an easy one. It might not be for everyone not intimately familiar with percentages. I'm trying not to assume too much going in.

Also, splitting and adding immediately is not an easy extrapolation to unusual percentages. Sure 20% = 10% + 10% of 200 is easy. What's 19% of 200? Okay, 10% + 9%. What's 9% of 200, off the top of your head? Hmm..did you multiply 2 by 9 and say 18? Well, that's because you mentally did what I'm suggesting, but didn't consciously think about it.

Easy. 20% - 1% = 19%-> 20% = 40, 1% = 2 -> 20% -1 % = 40 - 2 = 38
10-21-2016 09:53 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
I suck at math and even for me all these questions are way too easy.

(10-20-2016 08:55 PM)ElFlaco Wrote:  
(10-20-2016 08:45 AM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  1. You have a men's jacket with a list price of $200. You discount it by 20%, what is the new price?

The usual version of this question (harder) is: You have a men's jacket with a discount price of $200. The discount that has been applied is 20%. What was the original list price? (hint: not $240)

Do you mean the jacket's final price after the discount was $200 or that the discount applied was $200?

I'm assuming the former but anyway, it's $250 if the former, $1000 if the latter.

(10-20-2016 08:55 PM)ElFlaco Wrote:  I once had an English (language) student, a lawyer, who needed to know how many days each month has in order to answer a test item we were practicing together. She had no idea and didn't seem ashamed of her ignorance. Yes, a millennial.

I also know a college graduate who asked me for a calculator in order to add 90 and 13. Without shame. Millennial.

How do these people survive?
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2016 10:20 AM by Teutatis.)
10-21-2016 10:06 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-20-2016 09:09 PM)Vinny Wrote:  I am reading Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand at the moment. About 1/10 in. The book is written in 1957, but what is happening in modern day west seems to coincide with the plot pretty accurately.

Protagonist is complaining about how hard it is to find skilled workers.

@ElFlaco: 250?
200/80=2.5 (1 percent)
2.5x20=50
200+50=250

This is faster

200/.8 = 250
10-21-2016 10:10 AM
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polar Offline
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
This thread be like:
[Image: W8rfIcljZ.jpeg]


And MOS 13D - Field Artillery Automated Technical Data Systems Specialist? Sounds like...overkill...Icon_biggrin

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10-21-2016 12:27 PM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
Teaching percentage calculation was done in stupid and confusing way, when I learned it in school. They should teach it how it is, mathematically 20% is 20*0.01 thus 20% discount on something is just (1-0.2)*value=0.8*value

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10-21-2016 12:57 PM
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Guriko Offline
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
This is how I've calculated it:

x*0,8 = 200
x = 200/0,8 = 250

y*1500 = 1000
y = 1000/1500 = 0,67

I understand your anger towards my generation, millenials, but in order to work in certain industries I need the degree in the first place because without I am SOL, even if I am smarter than those who do hold it.

So currently I’m basically pulling double duty. Learning to get my degree and learning not to be an idiot because of it.

Thank God for the Manosphere.

Romans 8:31 - 'What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?'

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10-21-2016 01:22 PM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-21-2016 07:13 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  
(10-20-2016 09:09 PM)Vinny Wrote:  @ElFlaco: 250?
200/80=2.5 (1 percent)
2.5x20=50
200+50=250

Hey Vinny, how did you get that number right there?

100% full price
-20% discount
=80%
10-21-2016 06:09 PM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-21-2016 06:09 PM)Vinny Wrote:  
(10-21-2016 07:13 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  
(10-20-2016 09:09 PM)Vinny Wrote:  @ElFlaco: 250?
200/80=2.5 (1 percent)
2.5x20=50
200+50=250

Hey Vinny, how did you get that number right there?

100% full price
-20% discount
=80%

Mindblown

It's been so long since i've done these. Makes perfect sense now.
10-21-2016 06:23 PM
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Repo Offline
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
I've read that these math trick questions actually have very little correlation to real world performance, since the fact that your brain makes shortcuts to get wrong answers actually means that it is working properly. In fact, some firms have stopped using this line of questioning. Not to mention, these type of questions are readily available on the internet, so they could be biased to an applicant who just happened to have heard of it before. I remember one interview I had, I was asked an exact question that I had read on the internet. I put on my thinking face, acted like I was working it out, and gave a quick answer. I got the job.

Why not ask questions using real examples of what the applicant would encounter doing the job? No trick questions or gimmicks, just real stuff?
10-21-2016 07:32 PM
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ElFlaco Away
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-21-2016 07:32 PM)Repo Wrote:  I've read that these math trick questions actually have very little correlation to real world performance, since the fact that your brain makes shortcuts to get wrong answers actually means that it is working properly. In fact, some firms have stopped using this line of questioning. Not to mention, these type of questions are readily available on the internet, so they could be biased to an applicant who just happened to have heard of it before. I remember one interview I had, I was asked an exact question that I had read on the internet. I put on my thinking face, acted like I was working it out, and gave a quick answer. I got the job.

Why not ask questions using real examples of what the applicant would encounter doing the job? No trick questions or gimmicks, just real stuff?

I've noticed a similar phenomenon with language. People answer the question they think it would be logical for you to have asked -- without noticing that you actually asked something else. Our brains are designed to do this, I believe.

I don't consider the mathematical word problems above to be tricky. You just have to read them carefully rather than guessing what they are asking. Being able to do that is an important skill in many fields. Some people do poorly with word problems but do better when the abstractions are replaced with something concrete. They could turn out to be fine workers, but not in tasks requiring abstract thinking.
10-21-2016 07:52 PM
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Hell_Is_Like_Newark Offline
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-21-2016 07:32 PM)Repo Wrote:  Why not ask questions using real examples of what the applicant would encounter doing the job? No trick questions or gimmicks, just real stuff?

Those are real examples.. really, really, basic examples of a typical calculation a person would have to do.

A big part of the fashion industry is accounting for retail charge backs. You know those '60% off sales' you see at the end of the season? The retailer charges back the difference of the discounted items to the wholesaler / manufacturer, for the inventory that could not be sold at full price.
10-21-2016 08:34 PM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
Hell_is_like_Newark, you missed out, homie. You guys should have hired me before I left Newark. But seriously, I pretty much failed math class my entire life but I still solved those two problems quickly. I find that there is often a strong divide in millennials. We were taught math and english in pretty bizarre ways so many of us tend to hate one subject or the other. I was pretty good in math up until middle school. My family got my a tutor and she taught me a lot of different ways to solve problems, but my teachers didn't like those methods and would give me low scores because they couldn't understand how I was getting problems correct. I gave up on math after that.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
10-21-2016 08:40 PM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-21-2016 08:34 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  Those are real examples.. really, really, basic examples of a typical calculation a person would have to do.

One of my bank accounts has a monthly charge if you don't maintain the minimum balance. I once asked whether the minimum balance was based on (1) the end-of-day balance on the last day of the month, (2) the average end-of-day balance over the month, or (3) the lowest end-of-day balance attained over the month. The employee literally could not understand my question. She seemed to think they were all the same number. I gave up. People like this should not have jobs working with either numbers or the public.
10-21-2016 08:46 PM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-21-2016 08:34 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  Those are real examples.. really, really, basic examples of a typical calculation a person would have to do.

Sadly,those question you given maybe hard from some not because they are dumb, but our environment is suited for idiots For example, I was at DSW store looking at the clearance section. I was repeating the process for doing question one of your example multiple times for numerous items on clearance in my head. After doing that I notice, the wall has a chart of markdowns with their correspond prices. Doing something simple like markdown price for item is discourage by such aid.

I graduated college about 7 years ago, it sad to see how education has decay. Since I live near the hellhole that is Newark if your wife still looking for candidates, I can apply. Just need to get this MD degree out of the way first.
10-21-2016 11:44 PM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-20-2016 08:45 AM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  A while back, my wife was venting about how hard it was to find qualified people. She was baffled about how new hires would show a complete lack of critical thinking skills and the ability to perform functions involving basic math. This issue is with younger people (Millennials).

I've had to deal with government officials lately to resolve some legal issues. Good Lord, it's like Kafka's The Trial. The majority of the people inept, giving out wrong information. And this is for a job that they do everyday.

I had no idea how bad the level of ineptitude was in many government jobs.

"Action still preserves for us a hope that we may stand erect." - Thucydides (from History of the Peloponnesian War)
10-22-2016 02:48 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-22-2016 02:48 AM)MajorStyles Wrote:  
(10-20-2016 08:45 AM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  A while back, my wife was venting about how hard it was to find qualified people. She was baffled about how new hires would show a complete lack of critical thinking skills and the ability to perform functions involving basic math. This issue is with younger people (Millennials).

I've had to deal with government officials lately to resolve some legal issues. Good Lord, it's like Kafka's The Trial. The majority of the people inept, giving out wrong information. And this is for a job that they do everyday.

I had no idea how bad the level of ineptitude was in many government jobs.

Now just imagine student loan companies run by democratic state government. Only few people know what they are doing or care about there job. I have my credit rating destroy because of inept employers and malice company that just wants money.
10-22-2016 09:20 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-21-2016 11:44 PM)Thersites Wrote:  Sadly,those question you given maybe hard from some not because they are dumb, but our environment is suited for idiots


I don't think stupidity is the problem. IMO, there was no 'education' received in the years that these people went through school. In particular, college.

Part of me also wonder is the lack of teenage after school and summer employment is also to blame. I honed my basic skills working part time from age 16. I saved up enough money to even invest a bit in the stock market.

The summer and after school jobs I had were really important in having me grow from a boy to a man.
10-22-2016 09:26 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-22-2016 09:20 AM)Thersites Wrote:  Now just imagine student loan companies run by democratic state government. Only few people know what they are doing or care about there job. I have my credit rating destroy because of inept employers and malice company that just wants money.

Years ago, I ran into a guy who was in the same graduating class as me in college. He disappeared during my sophomore year. He explained to me what happened:

He needed student loans to afford college. As an 18 year old, he didn't know much, and was so excited about getting into an engineering program that he really didn't think through the terms of the loan.

The interest started right away instead of being deferred. Being a full time student (up to 19 credits a semester of mostly STEM courses), he couldn't work enough hours to cover the interest spread. College had become to expensive to finance via a job as a waiter. He ended up in default, dropped out, and now had thousands in loans he can't discharge in bankruptcy.

Just to note: No dad in his life. He didn't have an older experience man to sit down and go over the terms with him.... smacking him into reality as to what would happen.
10-22-2016 09:31 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-22-2016 09:26 AM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  
(10-21-2016 11:44 PM)Thersites Wrote:  Sadly, those question you given maybe hard from some not because they are dumb, but our environment is suited for idiots


I don't think stupidity is the problem. IMO, there was no 'education' received in the years that these people went through school. In particular, college.

Part of me also wonder is the lack of teenage after school and summer employment is also to blame. I honed my basic skills working part time from age 16. I saved up enough money to even invest a bit in the stock market.

The summer and after school jobs I had were really important in having me grow from a boy to a man.

I agree and will cite myself as an example. I wish would have done more summer type jobs after I was through with my educational responsibilities.

Schools nowadays are mostly if not only theory; you also need real world experience to tie the knot together into something coherent.

I believe I could have avoided a lot of pain during my life if I had more street smarts and met older fellow men who would have taken me under their wing and taught me something about this wonderful world which can quickly turn cruel for the naive of mind and heart.

(10-22-2016 09:31 AM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  
(10-22-2016 09:20 AM)Thersites Wrote:  Now just imagine student loan companies run by democratic state government. Only few people know what they are doing or care about there job. I have my credit rating destroy because of inept employers and malice company that just wants money.

Years ago, I ran into a guy who was in the same graduating class as me in college. He disappeared during my sophomore year. He explained to me what happened:

He needed student loans to afford college. As an 18 year old, he didn't know much, and was so excited about getting into an engineering program that he really didn't think through the terms of the loan.

The interest started right away instead of being deferred. Being a full time student (up to 19 credits a semester of mostly STEM courses), he couldn't work enough hours to cover the interest spread. College had become to expensive to finance via a job as a waiter. He ended up in default, dropped out, and now had thousands in loans he can't discharge in bankruptcy.

Just to note: No dad in his life. He didn't have an older experience man to sit down and go over the terms with him.... smacking him into reality as to what would happen.

This is why I say to some of my friends who believe the 'He should have known it' mantra to cut a kid some slack.

A boy who is nowadays 18 years old is an equivalent to a 14 year old in the past I believe. Sheltered by their parents, by the educational system, hooked on smart phones, computers they are simply dry of any kind of real life experience that would get their creative juices flowing, the hustler part of their brain flaring.

If you were never given the rundown on basic economics or even said that one should not sign a paper which you do not 100% understand than all of the blame cannot be pinned on you. 50% yes but 50% no.

Kids, boys today need a good smack when they do stupid shit but a reassuring bro hug after and be told: 'All right, don't worry – you're going to pull through this. You're going to need to haul ass and bloody sweat, but I believe you are going to able to come out a better man. And if you need someone to talk to, I'm always available when you need me the most.'

Romans 8:31 - 'What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?'

My notes.

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10-22-2016 09:46 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
Critical thinking of new hires? I guarantee any company has most of its employee's unable to figure out something based on either Maths, English, analytical situations and anything else which has a trick under its sleeve.

I was trying to get jobs which had these stupid aptitude tests and included ethical thinking. Why does my field need that horse shit? Why do I need to work out equations when you're required to use IT equipment and other shit to calculate jobs and get information?

Talk to any adult on the street and ask them about the complexities of pensions, mortgages, savings and compound interest. Most wouldn't have a clue and rightly so because it doesn't figure into their lives unless they seek it out themselves for its intended purpose.

If you want a house and need a mortgage, you'll learn about them through research.

If you're hiring a guy for an IT Admin post, do you want to know his history, portfolio, programming skills or some bullshit metric test based on "You have this many boxes, how many boxes will you have left if sally takes XXX" ?

Need experience to get experience..etc.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2016 09:50 AM by Foolsgo1d.)
10-22-2016 09:49 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-22-2016 09:46 AM)Guriko Wrote:  If you were never given the rundown on basic economics or even said that one should not sign a paper which you do not 100% understand than all of the blame cannot be pinned on you. 50% yes but 50% no.


I have to thank my Dad for helping me with the finance stuff. He opened up an account with his financial advisor's firm in my name (with my mother as trustee until I turned 21).

My Dad would match money I put in and he encouraged me to 'invest and hold'. I really learned the power of compounding interest during that time. On my 18th year, I actually had to fill out my own tax form, with a schedule reporting my dividend and capital gains.

I asked my Dad to fill it out. He threw the form right back at me and told me to do it myself as I was not a kid anymore. I did and all he did was check it over to make sure I did it correctly.
10-22-2016 10:24 AM
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RE: Modern University: Supplying debt ridden ignoramuses to the workforce
(10-22-2016 09:49 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Critical thinking of new hires? I guarantee any company has most of its employee's unable to figure out something based on either Maths, English, analytical situations and anything else which has a trick under its sleeve.

I've come to believe that companies do not want employees who are capable of realizing how badly they (the employees) are being screwed.

I've asked numerous people where I live about their employment contracts. Usually they have no idea. They don't even understand their paycheck. They are too intimidated to ask questions.

The prices of big-ticket items are advertised in monthly payments. Deals of 'no interest payments for X months' draw them in. Credit card interest rates are astronomical. I was offered one for 42% annually. No thank you.

This is the way the elites here want things. An educated populace would sink them.

(10-22-2016 09:46 AM)Guriko Wrote:  This is why I say to some of my friends who believe the 'He should have known it' mantra to cut a kid some slack.

A boy who is nowadays 18 years old is an equivalent to a 14 year old in the past I believe. Sheltered by their parents, by the educational system, hooked on smart phones, computers they are simply dry of any kind of real life experience that would get their creative juices flowing, the hustler part of their brain flaring.

It is evil to entice 18-year-olds to make enormous commitments they barely understand. And it is ironic that colleges and universities, posing as the arbiters of societal ethics, are the worst violators.
(This post was last modified: 10-22-2016 04:25 PM by ElFlaco.)
10-22-2016 04:23 PM
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