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Careers for non conformist ?
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Edmaster Offline
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Post: #1
Careers for non conformist ?
Hello guys,

I would need some serious advices from you.
I am 24 right now and need some directions from people who maybe were in the same situation as me.

After H.S i took law study at university (basically because my family push me into that) however i have passed the first 2 years (doubling) and now i just can't take it anymore : it's just boring.


Traits i basically possess : i have really high motivation but don't where to channel it, anti conformism, emotional intelligence, love for personal development, strong need to lead...

Don't want to bother you with more text, maybe some people are in the same situation it will be great to hear from you as well...
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2016 12:16 PM by Edmaster.)
10-28-2016 12:15 PM
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polymath Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Finish your studies.

Education is a pathway to freedom and financial independence.
10-28-2016 01:19 PM
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fortysix Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
What country are you in? You really need to finish that degree. Based on what you described, it seems that you may have problems working with other people. Maybe a solo business or career would be good for you?

Here is something I wish I would have done - lobby your university to allow you to open up a small coffee shop stand (it can even be one of those cart coffee shops) and then try to build that business - I think it will give you an idea of whether the business or entrepreneurial life style is for you.

Also - i'm a lawyer - law school was extremely boring, but I actually like to practice (on most days). I can also be my own boss (to the extent that my clients allow me to be).

In many businesses, even if you are your own boss, you still have a boss - your clients. Even free-lance computer programmers need to deal with this. However, there are a few extreme businesses where you can avoid dealing with clients - here are some examples off the top of my head:

Day Trader (very difficult to become successful and takes a lot of study - if you find law boring, you may find studying charts for months on end boring as well);

Blogger - again, takes discipline to sit behind a computer all day cranking out articles while you are nobody and need to build your base, but after you build a reader base it becomes easier.

At the end of the day, becoming successful and feeding yourself and your family will take hard work and you will need to constantly change and identify and overcome many personal deficiencies to succeed. Such is the life of man.
10-28-2016 02:04 PM
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monster Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Get over it. Even as a nonconformist you're still conforming to non-conformity.

Pick your passion(s) and go with it.

Warning: even when you follow your passions, it is still a job, and that, by and large, takes a lot of the fun (but not all) out of your passion. However, at least you'll still have the glimmer of passion that rear their head now and again.
10-28-2016 04:01 PM
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The Beast1 Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-28-2016 04:01 PM)monster Wrote:  Get over it. Even as a nonconformist you're still conforming to non-conformity.

Pick your passion(s) and go with it.

Warning: even when you follow your passions, it is still a job, and that, by and large, takes a lot of the fun (but not all) out of your passion. However, at least you'll still have the glimmer of passion that rear their head now and again.
*2

Nothing makes me laugh more than someone conforming to nonconformity.

If you want a nontraditional job,do something freelance, work blue collar, or better yet parlay your law knowledge into something that doesn't make you go to an office or wear a suit.

Protip from a 27 year old who has been in the workforce for awhile: make peace with the man.
10-29-2016 04:56 AM
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GlobalMan Away
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-28-2016 01:19 PM)polymath Wrote:  Finish your studies.

Education is a pathway to freedom and financial independence.

Education certainly is, yes.

More and more university, no, not necessarily.

Americans are dreamers too
10-29-2016 05:05 AM
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reciproke Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Don't burn the boats when you have no vision or alternative path thought out.
10-29-2016 06:05 AM
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General Mayhem Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-29-2016 04:56 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  
(10-28-2016 04:01 PM)monster Wrote:  Get over it. Even as a nonconformist you're still conforming to non-conformity.

Pick your passion(s) and go with it.

Warning: even when you follow your passions, it is still a job, and that, by and large, takes a lot of the fun (but not all) out of your passion. However, at least you'll still have the glimmer of passion that rear their head now and again.
*2

Nothing makes me laugh more than someone conforming to nonconformity.

If you want a nontraditional job,do something freelance, work blue collar, or better yet parlay your law knowledge into something that doesn't make you go to an office or wear a suit.

Protip from a 27 year old who has been in the workforce for awhile: make peace with the man.

Totally agree. The whole conformist/non-conformist thing is totally meaningless labeling.

I think what you really desire is a kinship with other people who see the world the way you do. You think you are a non-conformist but really your world-view just doesn't match that of those around you.
10-29-2016 01:36 PM
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polymath Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-29-2016 05:05 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  
(10-28-2016 01:19 PM)polymath Wrote:  Finish your studies.

Education is a pathway to freedom and financial independence.

Education certainly is, yes.

More and more university, no, not necessarily.

It's possible to go to a university and not learn, true. It's also possible to sit on a toilet and not shit. But that doesn't mean you should go shit in the woods.

So, what is a university? It's a place where you can lock yourself in a dorm room and study unless you have to eat, piss, shit, attend lectures, or go to a library. They provide the facilities to make this lifestyle easier, including a financial aid office to help you pay for it. Job recruiters and distinguished speakers visit on a regular basis. The entire environment is designed towards learning and thinking, and you can receive degrees that verify your background and skills to potential employers or investors.

I don't see why any young person would choose not to take advantage of that, unless he/she is unable or is already running a business full-time. Not to mention that the surest way to live a life of conformity is to have no differentiating credentials.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2016 04:36 PM by polymath.)
10-29-2016 04:32 PM
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DaveR Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-29-2016 04:32 PM)polymath Wrote:  I don't see why any young person would choose not to take advantage of that

Because the type of knowledge gained (theoretical, not practical) is irrelevant in many fields, it wastes a lot of time, costs a lot of money, the knowledge is available for free or close to it anyway, and a business/commerce/economics degree from an unremarkable third-tier university won't impress anyone.

There was a time when universities were strongly correlated with wealth and intelligence. However:
1. correlation and causation - the people who attended university in past generations were generally of wealthy classes and the universities were very selective. There was no place for affirmative action and the dumbing down of course material. I.e. they were elitist and the goal was very much for every dunce to be left behind.
2. as degrees become ubiquitous, they are no longer a measure of prestige unless from highly-ranked colleges.


On the legal profession specifically: I know a very high-profile barrister in London who doesn't employ law school graduates... because most of them are useless and come out of those courses over-confident in themselves. He takes those who show strong analytical skills, often with backgrounds in history or science, and gets them past the bar exams with the help of his own guidance and training programme.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2016 06:26 PM by DaveR.)
10-29-2016 05:55 PM
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wi30 Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
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10-29-2016 09:16 PM
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Sp5 Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Not the obvious choice, but a police officer in a large city with a unionized force. If the Paris or Marseille Police is anything like NYPD, Chicago, or Boston, cops have more freedom and less supervision than most workers.

Very set clear rules, with wide scope for discretion aside from trivialities like what you wear to work. You get to walk or drive around all day, answer the occasional radio call. Enough action to keep from being bored.

If you rise to detective rank, you wear what you want, do what you want. The extreme examples would be the NYPD detective portrayed in the movie Bad Lieutenant by Harvey Keitel. There are real life examples, on the bad side and the good side.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2016 01:11 AM by Sp5.)
10-30-2016 01:04 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
^20 years ago. Not now.

[Current year] male police officers get to pick up the physical slack for their female counterparts and get used to calling them "sir" because they have to promote the useless bitches off of the street where they're a danger to themselves and everyone else.
10-30-2016 03:53 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Calling yourself a non-conformist is essentially saying that you have an inability to make the best of a situation that doesn't cater to that inability.

You ought to gather control of yourself. There is a time for non-conformity and a time for conformity. If you are not capable of both at will then you are in a sense disabled.
10-30-2016 03:57 AM
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Edmaster Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-28-2016 02:04 PM)se7en Wrote:  What country are you in? You really need to finish that degree. Based on what you described, it seems that you may have problems working with other people. Maybe a solo business or career would be good for you?

Here is something I wish I would have done - lobby your university to allow you to open up a small coffee shop stand (it can even be one of those cart coffee shops) and then try to build that business - I think it will give you an idea of whether the business or entrepreneurial life style is for you.

Also - i'm a lawyer - law school was extremely boring, but I actually like to practice (on most days). I can also be my own boss (to the extent that my clients allow me to be).

In many businesses, even if you are your own boss, you still have a boss - your clients. Even free-lance computer programmers need to deal with this. However, there are a few extreme businesses where you can avoid dealing with clients - here are some examples off the top of my head:

Day Trader (very difficult to become successful and takes a lot of study - if you find law boring, you may find studying charts for months on end boring as well);

Blogger - again, takes discipline to sit behind a computer all day cranking out articles while you are nobody and need to build your base, but after you build a reader base it becomes easier.

At the end of the day, becoming successful and feeding yourself and your family will take hard work and you will need to constantly change and identify and overcome many personal deficiencies to succeed. Such is the life of man.


I live in Paris (France) and there the traditional education system is really rigid. At some point people are kind of "formatted" and it's scary.
And unfortunately law degree are one of the most rigid one.
It's a lot of theory and almost no practical study case.

For entrepreneurship/ business i really love the mindset but don't have a solid project yet. I though about freelancing also.
10-30-2016 07:16 AM
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Edmaster Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
I would like to thank very much everyone for adding value to this thread.

As always there are conflicting point of view however each perspective is really interesting in order to grow and i hope some other man could get value from it.

If some is like me I.E has a lot of energy but can't find a way to channel it somewhere (professionally) just PM me.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2016 07:23 AM by Edmaster.)
10-30-2016 07:23 AM
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Parzival Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Follow your passion is crap. Whats most peoples passion? What do they do in their free time? Watch youtube, play video games, waste time on social media or get drunk. Maybe you can make a career out of it still I doubt it. When you are good at something or like to do something you should already notice what it is. Can you transfer it into money? If not forget about the passion. Even more sometimes you are good at something but its not your passion at all.

Also be a non conformist, what does it mean? You don't buy your stuff in the supermarket? You don't use social media? You don't use have a phone? No car? Create your on clothes? You don't have to pay for food and accommodation? If you have to pay then better look for something that brings you the money. There are a lot of jobs out there in decent companies that offer you an interesting opportunity. Even more, it don't matter so much what you work but with whom and what you see as purpose of your job.

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We'll go alone with pride


For us, these conflicts can be resolved by appeal to the deeply ingrained higher principle embodied in the law, that individuals have the right (within defined limits) to choose how to live. But this Western notion of individualism and tolerance is by no means a conception in all cultures. - Theodore Dalrymple
10-30-2016 07:47 AM
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Edmaster Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Follow your passion ?

That's the problem : my passion is basically self improvement, that's where i spend the most of my time (reading a lot about business, persuasion, well being) and trying to challenge myself (lifting larger weight for instance).
10-30-2016 08:25 AM
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Parzival Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
This is something you should do anyway. And many people do this and have a job that brings in the money for their living.
For example I went into sales engineering because I like customers, see different stuff, work with people and self responsible for my own achievements. But today a job is not longer a job. A job did become something else. Did your grandfather had joy at his job? Was it his passion? Mostly not. This is some modern new age stuff. A job you do to get money that you can pay the bills. When you seek happiness in your job, self development, freedom or whatever you will get disappointed quite soon.

We will stand tall in the sunshine
With the truth upon our side
And if we have to go alone
We'll go alone with pride


For us, these conflicts can be resolved by appeal to the deeply ingrained higher principle embodied in the law, that individuals have the right (within defined limits) to choose how to live. But this Western notion of individualism and tolerance is by no means a conception in all cultures. - Theodore Dalrymple
10-30-2016 08:37 AM
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Easy_C Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-28-2016 02:04 PM)se7en Wrote:  In many businesses, even if you are your own boss, you still have a boss - your clients. Even free-lance computer programmers need to deal with this. However, there are a few extreme businesses where you can avoid dealing with clients - here are some examples off the top of my head:

Day Trader (very difficult to become successful and takes a lot of study - if you find law boring, you may find studying charts for months on end boring as well);

Blogger - again, takes discipline to sit behind a computer all day cranking out articles while you are nobody and need to build your base, but after you build a reader base it becomes easier.


Well spoken. Any good profession for nonconformists requires you to be a disciplined self starter.

Finance can be an interesting field in that one. A lot of the more traditional routes (F500 corp. finance, working for a large Wall Street bank, etc) are extremely conformist routes. However there a TON of small asset managers (of all types) who are extremely non-conformist in their thinking and don't hesitate to go against the grain. Rich Weil of Janus Capital is a great example. In fact I would go so far as to say that a lot of the best investors are non-conformist oddballs.

Failing that a lot of trade jobs are friendlier to that. You have to be comfortable with conforming to things like environmental law and safety procedures but you'll be in company that is generally more free thinking than in the white collar world.
10-30-2016 08:52 AM
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Easy_C Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Also on second thought....actually completing your law degree can be a good path.

Someone with a good law degree who goes independent ("hanging a shingle") can live a nice lifestyle. Depending on who you target as your clients it's possible to spend a lot of your time fighting bullshit, and you don't have to have a boss per se.

Ever thought about being a men's divorce lawyer?
10-30-2016 12:18 PM
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Edmaster Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-30-2016 12:18 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  Also on second thought....actually completing your law degree can be a good path.

Someone with a good law degree who goes independent ("hanging a shingle") can live a nice lifestyle. Depending on who you target as your clients it's possible to spend a lot of your time fighting bullshit, and you don't have to have a boss per se.

Ever thought about being a men's divorce lawyer?

This could be a great idea man... a way to fight for masculinity in a "noble" way. However i'm not sure that's my mission in life.

But thank you very much for this insight !
10-31-2016 12:51 PM
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polymath Offline
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-29-2016 05:55 PM)DaveR Wrote:  
(10-29-2016 04:32 PM)polymath Wrote:  I don't see why any young person would choose not to take advantage of that

Because the type of knowledge gained (theoretical, not practical) is irrelevant in many fields, it wastes a lot of time, costs a lot of money, the knowledge is available for free or close to it anyway, and a business/commerce/economics degree from an unremarkable third-tier university won't impress anyone.

There was a time when universities were strongly correlated with wealth and intelligence. However:
1. correlation and causation - the people who attended university in past generations were generally of wealthy classes and the universities were very selective. There was no place for affirmative action and the dumbing down of course material. I.e. they were elitist and the goal was very much for every dunce to be left behind.
2. as degrees become ubiquitous, they are no longer a measure of prestige unless from highly-ranked colleges.


On the legal profession specifically: I know a very high-profile barrister in London who doesn't employ law school graduates... because most of them are useless and come out of those courses over-confident in themselves. He takes those who show strong analytical skills, often with backgrounds in history or science, and gets them past the bar exams with the help of his own guidance and training programme.

No offense but I just don't see how you can come to these conclusions, and the item about a legal professional who runs a practice without employing any law school graduates strikes me as dubious.

Next time you ride in a plane, ask yourself whether the guys who built it learned anything practical in college. Not only are there explicitly practical skills learned in college, but also you learn a lot of career skills and other soft skills. What's more, any good school has a certain culture or way of thinking about it, and being around other people in an academic stage of life enables a person to think deeply about life and challenging ideas in more depth (and with more conversational counterparts) than is possible anywhere else.

I personally believe that a man never wastes time when he dedicates it to education or travel. And even the most expensive colleges offer massive financial aid to a student who is paying his own way.

Here in the US, reading law (ie passing the bar without going to law school) is an unusual and very difficult process, so most law firms -- especially big law -- almost exclusively recruit top graduates from prominent institutions.

Maybe the difference is that you're thinking of third rate schools, and I'm thinking of top private schools as well as major public schools.

Still, it seems like bad advice to tell a young person who is within spitting distance of earning a degree that he should quit just because he's bored. I say this as someone who did exactly that, at one point in his life.
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2016 05:03 PM by polymath.)
10-31-2016 05:02 PM
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
(10-31-2016 05:02 PM)polymath Wrote:  Not only are there explicitly practical skills learned in college, but also you learn a lot of career skills and other soft skills. What's more, any good school has a certain culture or way of thinking about it, and being around other people in an academic stage of life enables a person to think deeply about life and challenging ideas in more depth (and with more conversational counterparts) than is possible anywhere else.
University students are generally surrounded by other inexperienced university students. Professors and Ph.Ds are not at all accessible. Which "career skills and other soft skills", specifically, are you referring to that couldn't be better learnt through hands-on experience with people already in a particular industry? Anyone in the professions will tell you that graduates are loss-makers for the first few years.


(10-31-2016 05:02 PM)polymath Wrote:  Maybe the difference is that you're thinking of third rate schools, and I'm thinking of top private schools as well as major public schools.
To quote directly, you wrote "any young person"... 99% of them are not in top private schools or major public schools and never will be. Much of what you've written makes sense for the engineering, science and medical fields, but people in those fields already know that and in any case can't enter their chosen professions without the prerequisite degrees. On the other hand, there are plenty of faculties - business, commerce, economics, liberal arts, etc. - which don't even aim to teach the skills necessary for any particular role. Then you have a bunch of absolutely useless faculties like multimedia, languages, sport, etc.... is there really any advantage to learning those skills in an expensive, regulation-heavy framework like the university system?

Case in point: the faculty of languages. Why spend $40k+ for a language degree that is more than likely not even recognised in the country where that language is spoken natively? The graduates from those programmes usually develop deranged accents that take years to correct. A guy who spends $500 on a plane ticket and $2000 on a few private lessons with local teachers in the target country will be fluent in half the time, will be culturally immersed, and will have developed infinitely more local connections than his counterpart who took the university route.

There is a danger in telling every young person that university is "the way". In many situations, it is not.
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2016 06:14 PM by DaveR.)
10-31-2016 05:48 PM
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RE: Careers for non conformist ?
Whatever your current hobby is, find a way to buy low and sell high.

Nonconformists are horrible employees.

WIA

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10-31-2016 05:56 PM
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