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I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
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The Beast1 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
(12-06-2016 03:23 AM)DeusVult Wrote:  Can you accept the Resurrection? If so, what is substantially different with that breaking of the laws of science and nature with a Virgin Birth?

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-59039...pid1430706
12-08-2016 11:15 AM
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xmlenigma Offline
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Post: #52
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
(01-24-2017 01:02 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  As someone who studied the Mystery Religions a while back, The same patters always occurs: People dismissed completely what a conspiracy theorist says... which makes him even nuttier down the line.

Which is why I stop delving into this... to avoid becoming a Mercenary! This shit is way too deep for most people who believe Humans just "came out", and all this symbology is just by chance.

But I ain't mad about that. I used to be, but not anymore. God mentioned that Lucifer is His most pleasing creation, His most conniving, and His smartest. Was also in charge of Entertainment in God's kingdom. And isn't there a Is Hollywood Satanic Thread on There?

And people are blaming the Jews in droves nowadays... exactly as Albert Pike wrote in His Moral & Dogma book! Man Lucifer is one smart MOFO. If I go to Hell... I'll shake his Hand and tell him job well done! You truly fucked Humans like you told God you would

I truly think I'll drop a datasheet on the knowledge I've gathered from the Mystery Religions... and keep it Rational and based on Religions

Some "beings" are not born only via BIOLOGY.. they Manifest via different channels.. PS: Born at midnight.. just like Krishna

Here's one..
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-49014...pid1495698

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01-27-2017 04:36 AM
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #53
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
(11-18-2016 08:27 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  If you read my previous posts, I wrote that if Mary was a whore that it makes Jesus being the son of God a much more powerful statement. In that God, in all of his infinite glory and power, chose his only son to be brought into this world as a peasant wood worker born from a loose woman. That's a heck of a God and adds credibility to the promise of redemption in the afterlife.

In the grand scheme of things, her fidelity or lack thereof is ultimately pointless when compared against the redemptive promise, moral lessons, and sacrifice Jesus made.

You are mistaken here because you are twisting things to create an effect in a very human way (to prove some other needless point) when your very point was already proven by what happened, history. It doesn't add any credibility, you are Hollywood-izing something in a weird way to try to get "more" out of a concept that is already 100% sound and there is an added detrimental effect, as I will describe.

Not only does it defy God's sanctity and holiness as a result (which is unnecessary and unsound, therefore also cannot be and wasn't) this is an even more (perhaps the most?) important point:

Mary cannot be the second Eve if she is not faithful to God, obedient to him unlike in the Garden of Eden, and through her salvation, unlike through Eve initially corruption and mortality in doing it on our own, as man was brought to this "knowledge" through her. "Let it be done to me according to your word" is the ultimate obedience.

Not only is she unholy if yours is the case, the story is incoherent. And what's more, it is totally unnecessary. He already was King born as a rural, humble servant. He already was Lord with a mouth that spoke with truth and acted with complete integrity, yet was spit on and hated "by his own". Everything human, in that regard, he turned upside down. We make repentance real by turning from our old ways, by changing our mind (metanoia) and being obedient --- this is why she is the foremost of the saints. The rejection again of the carnal, of the tribal (and of your suggestion here) is again seen in "Blessed is the womb that born you and the breasts that nursed you". "No, blessed rather are those that hear the word of God, and keep it" That is MARY and why she is so valuable as an example. It is referring precisely to the behavior and obedience at the annunciation.

Why did God raise Jesus up on the 3rd day and not later (for a whimsical effect similar to your whore birth)? As you should know from Jewish ritual, the corpse rots after 3 (Lazarus showed that he was putrid and would also die again when Jesus raised him). He cannot see corruption, nor will he, even after a willing death. This act maintains his humanity and divinity, preserves tradition, and makes complete everything known about the Messiah.

The completeness of the story must be preserved. And it is, and was, and will be, forever and ever.
01-27-2017 01:28 PM
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EDantes Offline
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Post: #54
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
(10-28-2016 04:12 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  One of the last items bothering me in Christian theology is the concept of Jesus' immaculate birth.
Well for what it's worth, virgin births can happen in some species of animals, such as some types of sharks.

So even from a scientific perspective, it's possible in some extremely rare cases a woman could conceive without a man's seed:

http://www.businessinsider.com/animals-t...ths-2015-9

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/...australia/
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2017 01:39 PM by EDantes.)
02-01-2017 01:37 PM
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YoungBlade Away
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Post: #55
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
(02-01-2017 01:37 PM)EDantes Wrote:  
(10-28-2016 04:12 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  One of the last items bothering me in Christian theology is the concept of Jesus' immaculate birth.
Well for what it's worth, virgin births can happen in some species of animals, such as some types of sharks.

So even from a scientific perspective, it's possible in some extremely rare cases a woman could conceive without a man's seed:

http://www.businessinsider.com/animals-t...ths-2015-9

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/...australia/

With a Y chromosome though?

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02-03-2017 06:34 PM
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Thomas the Rhymer Offline
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Post: #56
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
I can understand why the authors of the bible put it in...

After all, Jesus had to compete with all those Greek and Roman gods and demi-gods. No Roman worshipper of Hercules would take Jesus as a serious rival unless some amazing miraculous event occurred at impregnation (in Hercules' case, Jupiter came down to earth and pretended to be some woman's husband). Other miraculous impregnations include Theseus and Perseus, off the top of my head.

I can't imagine any Roman pagan taking Jesus seriously if he was just a Jewish preacher born from humble, normal beginnings, conceived in the normal, human way.

What I'm trying to say is, given the circumstances of the time, the authors of the gospels must have felt compelled to put in some propaganda. Because the Roman pagan world was hungry for miracle stories, and Roman paganism fulfilled that need, so the only way for Christianity to appeal to the Roman masses, and to compete with paganism, was to have some miracle stories of their own.

Which boils down to me saying that I disbelieve that the bible is literally true. It may be spiritually true, but I also cannot accept its literal truth. The gospel was deliberately dressed in a way to appeal to Roman paganism, so you have to dig beneath the propaganda and not accept it at face value.

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02-04-2017 12:24 AM
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Post: #57
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
My mother is a virgin. I can't imagine any other scenario.
02-04-2017 11:43 AM
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YoungBlade Away
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Post: #58
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
I think Flavius Josephus, a Roman-Jewish historian who wrote around the time the gospel of Mark was written, said Jesus' father was a Roman soldier named Pantera. I may be mistaken though.

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02-05-2017 06:21 PM
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TheMost Offline
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Post: #59
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
(01-27-2017 01:28 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  Why did God raise Jesus up on the 3rd day and not later (for a whimsical effect similar to your whore birth)? As you should know from Jewish ritual, the corpse rots after 3 (Lazarus showed that he was putrid and would also die again when Jesus raised him). He cannot see corruption, nor will he, even after a willing death. This act maintains his humanity and divinity, preserves tradition, and makes complete everything known about the Messiah.

The Resurrection on day 3 has nothing to do with any tradition about corpses rotting. It goes back to Genesis chapter 1 and 2. Remember, Jesus is called the "second Adam". Adam was created on the third day of Creation. This is a bit of esoteric knowledge the Rabbi's know, and anyone who combines Genesis chapters 1 and 2 will realize, treating them as parallel accounts. Some people say they are not parallel accounts.

With man created on day 3 and woman created on day 6, it correlates with the birth of a male child requiring 40 days of recuperation, but 80 days for birth of a female child. Even the book of Jubilees, not a Bible book, understood this correspondance. It was written by someone who didn't know about Genesis 1 and 2 being parallel accounts, but it still made the connection between recuperation at childbirth, and the fact that woman was created after man.

So, with Jesus dead, and raised on the third day, it is like the first three days of creation, when there was no Adam. That is the symbolism, which Paul makes explicit later on in the New Testament.
02-11-2017 05:25 AM
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TheMost Offline
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Post: #60
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
An interesting result when you realize the Bible account has Adam created on day 3; it means the Bible is explicitly ruling out any possibility of a) man evolved from animals and b) man came from the stars. Since it has mankind created before the animals and the stars. Not bad for page one of an extremely ancient document eh? As if it knew such theories would rise up.
02-11-2017 05:29 AM
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Kid Twist Offline
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Post: #61
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
Your explanation is accurate. So is mine. And of course it has to do with what I said it did. I have contradicted nothing. Your comments are appreciated, nevertheless.
02-16-2017 12:25 PM
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xmlenigma Offline
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Post: #62
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
^ One has to look at a lot of the content of texts as "needs of the COMMUNICATION MEDIUM and author at THAT TIME" .. They did not have InfoGraphics and Wikis & HyperLinks.. so they have to create "structure" around "information" such that "the masses" (not highly educated or intellectual) could garner something from the content.. Hence, throughout all traditions, the information/ knowledge was passed on in a STORY format..

So, some things can be take literally, while others may be "metaphors" used to describe something without "video" and rich communication medium. Hence, interpretation, understanding and relevance to CURRENT LIFE scenarios and usage is not always straightforward.

The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.
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(This post was last modified: 02-19-2017 01:03 PM by xmlenigma.)
02-19-2017 01:02 PM
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jcrew247 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
That's really interesting comparing Jesus to Perseus and his father Zeus. I never thought about how Greek Theology would influence the development of Christian Theology but it makes sense since so much of Christian traditions seemed to be borrowed from the existing pagan pre-christian culture. Perhaps in reality Jesus did have a birth father but it was washed out to perpetuate his deity from God.
07-03-2019 08:03 AM
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MusicForThePiano Offline
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Post: #64
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
I've heard that the alleged myths that occurred prior to Jesus' birth that also contained similar themes of virgin birth, savior etc, were mockeries put in place by dark powers to fool those who would research the history behind Jesus' birth to ascertain an academic truth. The Horus myth, the Gilgamesh myth, the Quetzalcoatl myth, all are distractions, and at the very least, predictions of the one true savior to come.

Even the writer Virgil foretold of the coming of Christ. The people were waiting for him.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2019 08:46 AM by MusicForThePiano.)
07-03-2019 08:45 AM
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Rorogue Offline
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Post: #65
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
Go to Russell Brand's podcast on Luminary and watch his recent talk with Reza Aslan. I don't agree with Reza's politics, but the guy knows his religion.

He talks about the difference between faith and religion. Faith is inherent in all humans- religion is a language. It has a lot to do with culture, ethnicity etc.

He also talks about how- after studying all types of religions around the world- all the stories are basically the same.

The question of whether they are factually correct is not as important as 'why were people telling this story? What were they trying to convey?'
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2019 08:51 AM by Rorogue.)
07-03-2019 08:50 AM
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iop890 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
Do you still think this, OP?
07-03-2019 09:28 AM
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Wreckingball Offline
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Post: #67
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
I think that, like the vast majority of the Bible, the Virgin Mary is just a metaphor.

Like the apple and snake are sin and desire, virgin Mary is a metaphor for a decent woman.
07-03-2019 10:04 AM
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Sherman Offline
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Post: #68
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
We have already entered the surreal age where it is now politically incorrect to say that a man can't get pregnant. People who defend a virgin birth can't be the ones to fight irrationality. On the other hand, I wonder how many are aware that Zeus is the origin of virgin birth. Zeus brought Athena to term and she was born out of his head. Dionysus was brought to term and born from Zeus's thigh. If Zeus were alive in today's leftist America, he would have the right to maternity leave.


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07-03-2019 10:54 AM
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ThriceLazarus Offline
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Post: #69
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
Technically, we know that a virgin birth is possible.

In laboratory settings, the eggs of both sea urchins and mice have been punctured by an agitator. Without any exchange of genetic information, the egg will duplicate the chromosome within, creating a viable zygote. These ‘clones’ were found to be infertile once matured.

There have been more than one hundred billion humans who have come to and gone from this planet. It’s probable to have happened at least once.

The rub is that these ‘clones’ are always female. However, it would be poetic if, in inverse of Adam’s rib, the Y chromosome of Yeshua was pulled from within the genetic information of the single X chromosome. As above, so below. Another possibility - however unlikely, and possibly profane - is a virus. These nanomachines manipulate genetic material, and their geometric shapes are hauntingly out of place within the material world. Apostasy!
07-03-2019 03:41 PM
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PixelFree Offline
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RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
There is also the ‘Aliens’ explaination. Abduction/artificial insemination/genetic manipulation/memory wiping.

Hopefully this comment doesn’t get me in trouble (it is not intended to be blasphemous nor disrespectful), however I find Ancient Astronaut theory and Christianity compatible. It’s what makes the most sense to me, both religion and science being right.

Looking through the religious texts, angels from the skies descended down to earth in inflaming chariots that made lots of noise and smoke. They then performed miracles such as curing blindness (cataract operation?) and taught us how to live well, and then ascended back up into the skies (again with lots of loud noise and smoke) and told us they will return sometime (or at least we look forward to their return).

Think of it:
- God made us in his image
- Jesus is ‘in’ every one of us (his DNA, literally)
- Prayer as a communication device
- Checkout Cargo Cults


I was raised as a Christian and then like many started to question/disregard my religion as a teenager. Now as an adult man getting deeper into sciences and theory and also coming to similar conclusions as Roosh and this forum in regards to degeneracy and our spiritual destruction I now take and live the Christian teachings far more seriously. The sicko occult/spirit cooking/ evil practiced by the elite just sealed the whole thing.

Don’t be distracted by the supernatural elements of them and whether or not this makes sense to you, the underlying framework, morals, values and message is the most beneficial part to focus on.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2019 04:58 PM by PixelFree.)
07-03-2019 04:54 PM
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Sword and Board Offline
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Post: #71
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
Hahahaha so much mental fuckery going on in here in attempts to blaspheme and muddy the waters on Christ.
07-04-2019 01:29 AM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
There were topics being debated in the ancient Church on which not every person agreed.

The virginity of St. Mary was not among those topics.

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07-04-2019 02:58 AM
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RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
(02-05-2017 06:21 PM)YoungBlade Wrote:  I think Flavius Josephus, a Roman-Jewish historian who wrote around the time the gospel of Mark was written, said Jesus' father was a Roman soldier named Pantera. I may be mistaken though.

That's from the Talmud, not from Josephus.

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07-04-2019 02:59 AM
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Zevs Offline
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Post: #74
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
(10-28-2016 04:12 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  One of the last items bothering me in Christian theology is the concept of Jesus' immaculate birth.

We all know the story. The holy spirit came down unto Mary and made Jesus. Joseph, knowing Mary wasn't pure was going to disown her quietly because the community would have stoned her cheating if it had come out.

However Gabriel came to Jesus and told him not to and thus we have the holy family.

Right?

I don't think so. In fact, in Nazareth (Jesus' home town) it's well known that Jesus was never able to perform a miracle there. Why is that?

The bible states that he wasn't able to because of lack of faith. I believe the truth to be is because everyone there knew he wasn't Joseph's son and as such mocked him because of it. In the early days of Jesus' ministry and the early church they probably all knew the truth and silently acknowledged that Jesus was in fact born from his mother sleeping around.

The virgin birth story came out later to whitewash Mary's sin.

Do i view Jesus any less because of this? No, in fact i view this as a significant aspect of his ministry. In spite of his mother's actions he was able to perform miracles, act as humanity's savior , and be the son of God.

The sheer fact that God, the king of kings, decided to bring his only son into this world by way of a lowly slutty peasant woman makes Jesus and his ministry that much more powerful to me. A single man born from such a terrible act has made and imparted such grace and virtue on this world is so powerful. It blows my mind.

I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary. What does everyone else think on this subject?

It's called FAITH if you don't have it or don't believe the Word of God, too bad.
07-04-2019 07:01 AM
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Post: #75
RE: I just can't accept that Jesus was born from a virgin mother.
The most important question is, do you want the approval of others or the respect of God?
07-04-2019 11:25 AM
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