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Weightlifting: Starting Strength
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iknowexactly Offline
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Post: #176
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(07-12-2013 09:57 AM)Anon-A-Moose Wrote:  I don't think I've eaten in caloric excess in two years.

6'1, 180lbs, 13% bodyfat. I'm currently:
Benching - 215 lbs (185x6+ reps)
Deadlift - 310 lbs (260x10+ reps)
Quarter Squat - 440+lbs (380x6+ reps)

My lower back is shot to hell and I've been cutting hard for four months with no results. No amount of exercise or diet helps a goddamn bit. 1800 calories and gaining weight. Not sure how. But I'm returning to 5x5s since they seem to work for me, albiet with probably an extra rep or two if I can.

My body feels loose around my waist, I'm not sure if it's subcutaneous fat or loose skin. If it's loose skin I'm FUCKED, I can't possibly firm this up. I hate my body so fucking much I have no idea how to fix this.

You sound like you are obsessively overtraining. Thinking you "hate" your body is insane and a prescription for injuring yourself.

I find it useful to look at your body as a child. It will do what you want but you can't punish it ruthlessly ( to the point of ignoring obvious injuries) and expect it to turn out well. You also can't let it do whatever the hell it wants and eat ice cream all day.

LISS might be worth a try. I think it's the least likely to mess up your back, the least mechanical stress.

Have you ever though of resting to let your back heal?

I'm riding my bike at easy, maybe 60-75% max hr, 2 hours a day pain free, at about 1800 calories a day/120 grams protein, and lifting light just to retain muscle. I'm still flabby, but losing lard and I'm enjoying my everyday life, and feel like I can maintain this program almost indefinitely.

However I don't work and take a nap most days.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2013 12:27 PM by iknowexactly.)
07-12-2013 12:23 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #177
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(07-12-2013 09:04 AM)puckman Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 08:15 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  I am on the Roosh program so I am going to do this… is it worth getting coaching to start or do you think the SS book is detailed enough? YT videos? I want to make sure I get the form down and avoid injury.

I have done it several times of the years and received coaching. A coach is not necessary, but here is my list to get started;

1) Buy and read Starting Strength - 3rd edition, as well as read the Starting Strength Wiki online.
2) Join the Starting Strength message board and dont be a dick, they will ban you quickly and shred dumb questions.
3) Find an appropriate gym or buy the equipment yourself. Any gym with a real squat rack and bench press will work. You will not use a Smith Machine. You dont need an expensive gym, just one with the right equipment. Preferably, all you need is a power rack, barbell, 300# of weights, and a bench. You can buy all this for $800 if you want to put it in your home.
4) Begin the program, and be happy that you are not doing a ridiculous bosu ball split HIIT cardio fat melter routine, looking at you John Romaniello.
5) Eat properly. This all depends on how old and fat you are, and your goals. Younger and skinny eat a lot, 4000 cal/day+ is pretty standard. If you are an older pudgy guy that wants to "gain muscle and lose fat" like me, you will be careful and not over do it, but eat plenty of protein 1.5g/lb of body weight is a good standard. Carbs are ok. You will need them. If you are a kid in high school looking to blow up for football, you have found the program to do it. Just tell your mom to double her grocery bill and eat your face off.
6) Get video coaching. Post links of yourself here or on the Starting Strength message board where experienced people and coaches can critique your form. This is pretty crucial. If you do this alone you most likely will not need a coach. Combine this with watching a lot of video, and you should be good.
7) Do the program for at least 16 weeks.

Thanks for the reply; I greatly appreciate it. Here's where I am:

1. Check. Kindle Edition
2. Waiting for approval/password...I see what you mean. Kinda funny how every other answer on there seems to be "You're a p*ssy." and "YNDTP". heheh
3. I found a gym that has a bench, squat rack (but not a power cage) and I can do deadlifts there too. I'll be checking out one more place this week.
4. I eat a mostly paleo diet and have for last few years but have kind of hit a plateau with that. This one reason I want to lift heavy. I need to shake things up a bit. I'm in my later 30's and eat about 2000 to 2400 cal a day but I'm carrying at least 25lbs of extra blubber I'd rather not (BMI of 28 = not good).
6. Good idea
7. Will do
07-14-2013 10:34 AM
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Wreckingball Offline
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Post: #178
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(07-12-2013 11:48 AM)puckman Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 11:04 AM)Wreckingball Wrote:  Anybody has results of doing this program, but not eating like an animal?

yeah, this is basically the most asked question about the program. eating less will just slow your progress. If you are going up in weight 5-10lbs every workout, eating less could stall your progress. I dont know how much you eat now, but I dont eat a crazy amount and I stay at 15% BF

ok, thanks!
07-15-2013 06:56 AM
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ravzanpat123 Offline
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Post: #179
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
I've switched from BB to DB bench press on SS. I know it is not what you are meant to do but for some reason I couldn't BB bench more than 55 kg (121.25 lbs) for the 3 sets of 5 reps. I can DB 34 kg (75 lbs) for 3 x 5 which is a lot better and I think I can progress more! It is really weird - not sure if it was because my BB benching form was not good but whatever it was - I don't care because my DB bench is going really well!
07-15-2013 11:48 AM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #180
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
I'm a couple of workouts into SS and really enjoying how I feel afterwards…except for the DOMS. The day after I'm pretty sore..

“Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts.”
07-23-2013 05:23 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #181
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
^^^update to above...that soreness has mostly gone away. I get a little bit sore, but not like before.

Question: If I have some extra time at the end of my workouts, are there some additional exercises that would be good to learn/add which won't mess with the program?

“Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts.”
08-06-2013 06:16 PM
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Tony.5678 Offline
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Post: #182
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
I'm on SS. I know the workout A and workout B. I'm seeing improvements on one day but not on the other. On the squat/power clean/press I am seeing progress, but on the squat/deadlift/bench I am not. I.e I am lifting a slightly heavier weight each time for my power cleans and overhead press, but not gaining strength from every workout when deadlifting and bench pressing. Should I change the routine on the day I have to deadlift and bench slightly?

These are my lifts:
Squats - 100 kg / 220lbs
Deadlift - 120 kg / 265 lbs
DB Bench press - 40 kg, 40 kg, 38 kg / 88 lbs, 88 lbs, 84 lbs
Overhead press - 40 kg / 88 lbs
Power cleans - 50 kg / 110 lbs
08-12-2013 06:16 AM
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AntiTrace Offline
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Post: #183
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-06-2013 06:16 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  ^^^update to above...that soreness has mostly gone away. I get a little bit sore, but not like before.

Question: If I have some extra time at the end of my workouts, are there some additional exercises that would be good to learn/add which won't mess with the program?

I haven't done SS but it doesnt focus on abs does it? what about forearms?

In my normal workout I like to throw an ab exercise in after every other set or so, so that I'm doing 12 sets of abs.

For example my chest day:

Bench Press 1 x 30-40 (warmup)
Bench Press 5x18-6 (weighting up as reps come down)
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with leg raises
Incline Bench Press 5x10 (5th set is burnout all the way to empty bar)
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with GHD machine
Dips 5x10
-normally don't do abs between these as dips engage the core pretty well
Flat DB Flys 5x8-10
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with crunches or planks
DB Pull Overs 5x10-15
-Pull overs hit my core as well

You could something like that with abs/forearms/calves or whatever SS doesn't really hit.

God'll prolly have me on some real strict shit
No sleeping all day, no getting my dick licked

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(This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 06:33 AM by AntiTrace.)
08-12-2013 06:31 AM
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dk902 Offline
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Post: #184
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-12-2013 06:31 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 06:16 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  ^^^update to above...that soreness has mostly gone away. I get a little bit sore, but not like before.

Question: If I have some extra time at the end of my workouts, are there some additional exercises that would be good to learn/add which won't mess with the program?

I haven't done SS but it doesnt focus on abs does it? what about forearms?

...like that with abs/forearms/calves or whatever SS doesn't really hit.

If you deadlift heavy and do plenty of chins/pull-ups trust me you will not need to do direct forearm work.

I personally don't see the need to do direct forearm work if you're doing the above correctly.

The abs should get blasted as you're doing heavy compound work and squatting 2-3 times a week. They can be added in but there doesn't need to be a focus.

Yes calves aren't the main focus of starting strength. But if you don't have a good level of strength, e.g. 2 x Bodyweight Deadlift or Bodyweight Bench press, then bodypart development should be further down in your priorities.
08-12-2013 06:49 AM
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WanderingSoul Offline
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Post: #185
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-06-2013 06:16 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  ^^^update to above...that soreness has mostly gone away. I get a little bit sore, but not like before.

Question: If I have some extra time at the end of my workouts, are there some additional exercises that would be good to learn/add which won't mess with the program?

Once you've been on the program for 2-3 months you can mess with putting 3x5-8 weighted dips after bench day, and 3x5-8 weight chin ups after deadlift day. That is how I did it and it worked well. Or maybe I swapped the chin/dip days, can't remember.

EDIT: I think I did:
Squat
Bench
Bent Over Row
Weighted Chins

Squat
OHP
Deadlift
Dips
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 07:24 AM by WanderingSoul.)
08-12-2013 06:59 AM
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WanderingSoul Offline
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Post: #186
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-12-2013 06:31 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  I haven't done SS but it doesnt focus on abs does it? what about forearms?

In my normal workout I like to throw an ab exercise in after every other set or so, so that I'm doing 12 sets of abs.

For example my chest day:

Bench Press 1 x 30-40 (warmup)
Bench Press 5x18-6 (weighting up as reps come down)
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with leg raises
Incline Bench Press 5x10 (5th set is burnout all the way to empty bar)
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with GHD machine
Dips 5x10
-normally don't do abs between these as dips engage the core pretty well
Flat DB Flys 5x8-10
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with crunches or planks
DB Pull Overs 5x10-15
-Pull overs hit my core as well

You could something like that with abs/forearms/calves or whatever SS doesn't really hit.

You're thinking about little body parts, when you should be thinking about big body parts. Calves and forearms can easily be added to the end of any workout, SS or not. Though, as dk902 mentioned, heavy deadlifts, rows and chins work your forearms very well already.

Calves I think would be a good addition to SS. I am on Madcow now. I am set to squat 330lbs for 3 reps on Friday, and 365x3 in one months time, but have tiny calves. I like to call them athletic, but they are tiny compared to my thunder thighs from squatting 3x per week for months.

After Madcow I think I will go onto Lyle McDonalds bulking routine. Hit each bodypart 2x per week, but with mostly compound movements.

AntiTrace's program doesn't seem to have any strength work, which is something I much prefer to do.

Below is the program. I'll probably change the main lifts to 3x5 reps at 90/95% of my 5rm max though and try to add 5lbs per week.

http://www.jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-m...g-routine/

Quote: Mon: Lower
Squat: 3-4X6-8/3′ (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3′ rest)
SLDL or leg curl: 3-4X6-8/3′
Leg press: 2-3X10-12/2′
Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12/2′
Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3′
Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2′

Tue: Upper
Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3′
Row: 3-4X6-8/3′
Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2′
Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2′
Triceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5′
Biceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5′

For the Thu/Fri workouts either repeat the first two or make some slight exercise substitutions. Can do deadlift/leg press combo on Thu, switch incline/pulldown to first exercises on upper body day. A lot depends on volume tolerance, if the above is too much, go to 2-3X6-8 and 1-2X10-12
08-12-2013 07:14 AM
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Vaun Offline
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Post: #187
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-06-2013 06:16 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  ^^^update to above...that soreness has mostly gone away. I get a little bit sore, but not like before.

Question: If I have some extra time at the end of my workouts, are there some additional exercises that would be good to learn/add which won't mess with the program?

PM me to give you help with your program, at this point you should not be sore at all unless squating/pressing a near empty bar makes you sore. There is a such thing as starting off too heavy, you will be adding 15-30lbs per week, so start way lower than you think. Practicing the movements with little or no weight pays off later on, as much as lifting a near max 3x5. Especially if you are inexperienced, learning the lifts will keep you injury free and making progress as you get heavier.
08-12-2013 07:25 AM
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Post: #188
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-12-2013 07:14 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 06:31 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  I haven't done SS but it doesnt focus on abs does it? what about forearms?

In my normal workout I like to throw an ab exercise in after every other set or so, so that I'm doing 12 sets of abs.

For example my chest day:

Bench Press 1 x 30-40 (warmup)
Bench Press 5x18-6 (weighting up as reps come down)
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with leg raises
Incline Bench Press 5x10 (5th set is burnout all the way to empty bar)
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with GHD machine
Dips 5x10
-normally don't do abs between these as dips engage the core pretty well
Flat DB Flys 5x8-10
-after the 1st, 3rd, and last set I will follow up with crunches or planks
DB Pull Overs 5x10-15
-Pull overs hit my core as well

You could something like that with abs/forearms/calves or whatever SS doesn't really hit.

You're thinking about little body parts, when you should be thinking about big body parts. Calves and forearms can easily be added to the end of any workout, SS or not. Though, as dk902 mentioned, heavy deadlifts, rows and chins work your forearms very well already.

Calves I think would be a good addition to SS. I am on Madcow now. I am set to squat 330lbs for 3 reps on Friday, and 365x3 in one months time, but have tiny calves. I like to call them athletic, but they are tiny compared to my thunder thighs from squatting 3x per week for months.

After Madcow I think I will go onto Lyle McDonalds bulking routine. Hit each bodypart 2x per week, but with mostly compound movements.

AntiTrace's program doesn't seem to have any strength work, which is something I much prefer to do.

Below is the program. I'll probably change the main lifts to 3x5 reps at 90/95% of my 5rm max though and try to add 5lbs per week.

http://www.jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-m...g-routine/

Rex asked what he could add to the end of the workouts if he had extra time. Adding abs, calves, forearms, etc at the end of the workout was exactly what I was talking about.

Then I just gave an example of working those in between sets of the main workout.

That workout I posted was the Chest workout that Arnold claims he used for an extended time, its definitely more geared towards endurance but my max has increased since doing it. I've been doing it for about 3 months so its time for a change, ill check out that bulking one you posted, thanks.

God'll prolly have me on some real strict shit
No sleeping all day, no getting my dick licked

The Original Emotional Alpha
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 09:23 AM by AntiTrace.)
08-12-2013 09:21 AM
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Post: #189
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
AntiTrace, here is another one you may like:

Layne Norton's PHAT: Power Hypertrophy Adaptive Training


Day 1: Upper Body Power
Day 2: Lower Body Power
Day 3: Rest
Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy
Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy
Day 7: Rest



Day 1: Upper Body Power Day

Pulling Power Movement: Bent over or Pendlay rows
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance Pulling movement: Weighted Pull ups
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary Pulling movement: Rack chins
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Pressing Power Movement: Flat dumbbell presses
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Weighted dips
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Seated dumbbell shoulder presses
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary curling movement: Cambered bar curls
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary extension movement: Skull crushers
3 sets of 6-10 reps

Day 2: Lower Body Power Day

Pressing Power Movement: Squats
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Hack Squats
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance extension movement: Leg extensions
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance pulling movement: Stiff legged deadlifts
3 sets of 5-8 reps
Assistance pulling/curling movement: Glute ham raises or lying leg curls
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary calf movement: Standing calf raise
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary calf movement: Seated calf raise
2 sets of 6-10 reps

Day 3: Rest
Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day

Pulling Power Exercise speed work: Bent over or Pendlay rows
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Rack chins
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Seated cable row
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Dumbbell rows or shrugs bracing upper body against an incline bench
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Close grip pulldowns
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Seated dumbbell presses
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Upright rows
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Side lateral raises with dumbbells or cables
3 sets of 12-20 reps

Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day

Lower Body Power Exercise speed work: Squats
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hack squats
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Leg presses
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy extension movement: Leg extensions
3 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Romanian deadlifts
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy curling movement: Lying leg curls
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy curling movement: Seated leg curls
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy calf movement: Donkey calf raises
4 sets of 10-15 reps
Hypertrophy calf movement: Seated calf raises
3 sets of 15-20 reps

Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day

Pressing Power Exercise speed work: Flat dumbbell presses
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Incline dumbbell presses
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hammer strength chest press
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy fly movement: Incline cable flyes
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Cambered bar preacher curls
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Dumbbell concentration curls
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Spider curls bracing upper body against an incline bench
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Seated tricep extension with cambered bar
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable pressdowns with rope attachment
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable kickbacks
2 sets of 15-20 reps

Day 7: Rest
08-12-2013 10:15 AM
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phil81 Offline
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Post: #190
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(07-12-2013 09:04 AM)puckman Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 08:15 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  I am on the Roosh program so I am going to do this… is it worth getting coaching to start or do you think the SS book is detailed enough? YT videos? I want to make sure I get the form down and avoid injury.

I have done it several times of the years and received coaching. A coach is not necessary, but here is my list to get started;

1) Buy and read Starting Strength - 3rd edition, as well as read the Starting Strength Wiki online.
2) Join the Starting Strength message board and dont be a dick, they will ban you quickly and shred dumb questions.
3) Find an appropriate gym or buy the equipment yourself. Any gym with a real squat rack and bench press will work. You will not use a Smith Machine. You dont need an expensive gym, just one with the right equipment. Preferably, all you need is a power rack, barbell, 300# of weights, and a bench. You can buy all this for $800 if you want to put it in your home.
4) Begin the program, and be happy that you are not doing a ridiculous bosu ball split HIIT cardio fat melter routine, looking at you John Romaniello.
5) Eat properly. This all depends on how old and fat you are, and your goals. Younger and skinny eat a lot, 4000 cal/day+ is pretty standard. If you are an older pudgy guy that wants to "gain muscle and lose fat" like me, you will be careful and not over do it, but eat plenty of protein 1.5g/lb of body weight is a good standard. Carbs are ok. You will need them. If you are a kid in high school looking to blow up for football, you have found the program to do it. Just tell your mom to double her grocery bill and eat your face off.
6) Get video coaching. Post links of yourself here or on the Starting Strength message board where experienced people and coaches can critique your form. This is pretty crucial. If you do this alone you most likely will not need a coach. Combine this with watching a lot of video, and you should be good.
7) Do the program for at least 16 weeks.

I think this is very good advice especially 5 and 7.

I also agree with dk902's post about forearms, calves, and abs but will take it a step further. Direct work on small muscle groups is going to get in the way of the more important compound exercises. You don't want to burn out abs and calves on Monday and have that get in the way of your squats on Wednesday. If you feel like you are progressing quickly and have to add something then add another set of squats or bench press to your next workout.

I've read hundreds of posts about SS on other forums and the sames questions are repeated over an over so here are the answers to most of those questions.
(1) Rippetoe knows what he is talking about. Don't second guess his program. Stick to his plan for several months before changing anything.
(2) Forget about small muscles. They will get plenty of work while doing the big compound exercises.
(3) Eat more.
(4) Your aren't going deep enough on your squats.
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 05:30 PM by phil81.)
08-12-2013 05:15 PM
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Post: #191
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
Great post from Coach Rip today on T Nation. The explains the concept of training vs. exercise in a nutshell.

Effective Strength Training Vs. Wasting Time
by Mark Rippetoe

If strength is the objective – and it should be for everybody – understanding the difference between training and exercising is fundamental to being an effective athlete and an effective coach. So is understanding the difference between the basic barbell movements – the primary exercises – and the assistance exercises, the ones people seem to worry about the most.

What's the difference between an effective strength coach and a physical therapist pretending to be a strength coach? What's the difference between a lifter who gets big and strong and the gym rat who's been the same skinny kid for 3 years? What's the difference between a successful strength athlete and a frustrated P90Xer or CrossFitter? What's the difference between a productive trainer and a babysitter (highly paid, ineffectual personal trainer)?

In each of the above examples, the former understands the difference between the primary exercises and the assistance exercises; they understand what they're used for and how they're programmed. And in each of the above, the latter – the physical therapist, the gym rat, the fad trainer, and the highly paid ineffective personal trainer – doesn't have a clue.

The former structure their training around primary exercises and program them for long-term progress, using assistance exercises only when progress has slowed on the primary exercises.

The ill-informed think that variety is the objective and that boredom is the enemy, that the pump, sweat, fatigue, and soreness are the hallmarks and the objective of an effective workout, not realizing that these things are just the side-effects of what happened today, and aren't the indicators of progress.

The uninformed don't understand that athletes getting stronger are not "bore-able," that measurable increases in the weight used on the basic exercises are required, and that the inclusion of new "moves" in every workout – exercises that inherently lack the ability to drive basic strength – don't accomplish a thing if strength is the objective.

They lose sight of the fact that "muscle confusion" is a rather odd concept, and that doing dozens of different exercises actually prevents productive training for strength acquisition. This is the nuts and bolts difference between effective strength training and wasting time and potential. -- MR

[Image: 1149074_10151784700051117_102055784_n.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2013 02:56 PM by Vaun.)
08-13-2013 02:54 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #192
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
With regards to eating a lot and doing SS, should I be not caring about trying to lose weight/fat? I am about 1 month into it. My weight has stayed the same or possibly gone down a little. It's hard to tell because day-to-day it can swing wildly depending on how many carbs I ate the day before (I assume this is basically just water retention/loss). I am definitely eating more than when I started, that's for sure. I don't really know my actual BF percentage, but from comparison pictures I would hazard a guess that it's in the 20% or so range. Obviously, I would much rather it be in the 15% or less range.
08-20-2013 11:22 AM
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phil81 Offline
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Post: #193
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-20-2013 11:22 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  With regards to eating a lot and doing SS, should I be not caring about trying to lose weight/fat? I am about 1 month into it. My weight has stayed the same or possibly gone down a little. It's hard to tell because day-to-day it can swing wildly depending on how many carbs I ate the day before (I assume this is basically just water retention/loss). I am definitely eating more than when I started, that's for sure. I don't really know my actual BF percentage, but from comparison pictures I would hazard a guess that it's in the 20% or so range. Obviously, I would much rather it be in the 15% or less range.

If you follow the SS program you will gain fat. I think Rip says something like weight gain can be about 60% muscle 40% fat. Your strength will increase a lot more if you focus on gaining strength now and losing fat after the program than if you try to gain strength and lose fat at the same time.

Copied from my post on 8-12:
(1) Rippetoe knows what he is talking about. Don't second guess his program. Stick to his plan for several months before changing anything.
(3) Eat more.
08-20-2013 01:37 PM
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Vaun Offline
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Post: #194
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-20-2013 11:22 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  With regards to eating a lot and doing SS, should I be not caring about trying to lose weight/fat? I am about 1 month into it. My weight has stayed the same or possibly gone down a little. It's hard to tell because day-to-day it can swing wildly depending on how many carbs I ate the day before (I assume this is basically just water retention/loss). I am definitely eating more than when I started, that's for sure. I don't really know my actual BF percentage, but from comparison pictures I would hazard a guess that it's in the 20% or so range. Obviously, I would much rather it be in the 15% or less range.

there was a time I ate 5000 kcal/day. I got fat, but was really into powerlifting. Now I just want to maintain a good squat and be lean, i.e. 12-14% BF. It all depends on your goals. And your diet can be tweaked, it takes experimentation. I would record everything you eat. I would look for patterns and what works for you, no diet recommendation is precise.

For me right now I am losing body fat and just maintaining strength by eating Slow Carb. I lift about 3x p week. If I looking to grow my strength, I would eat Slow Carb, and probably do a post workout shake and BCAA's, I personally like Aftershock. For BCAA I would drink it during the workout and probably go with At Large Nutrition. I am 38.

If I were going all out with no concern for my weight I would eat and lift aggressively, making the biggest poundage increases I could every workout. If you want a 500# deadlift thats probably the fastest way.
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2013 10:49 PM by Vaun.)
08-20-2013 10:47 PM
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Post: #195
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
Well so much for doing this…

http://www.returnofkings.com/8017/2-step...e-fat-loss

I have been keeping a food log since May. Looks like I might have to eat more to make strength gains...I actually don't want to. I went to Five Guys for a burger after the gym and wasn't really hungry for the rest of the day. Kind of had to force myself to have dinner.

I guess I could just suck it up and try drinking a bunch of milk. I know I may suffer from increased acne as a result but maybe it's worth it temporarily.

“Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts.”
08-21-2013 09:09 PM
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Post: #196
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
All my lifts involve going for 3 sets of 12.

What's the benefit of switching to 5x5. Seems like alot of guys on here do this?

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
08-23-2013 04:17 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #197
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-23-2013 04:17 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  All my lifts involve going for 3 sets of 12.

What's the benefit of switching to 5x5. Seems like alot of guys on here do this?

I only know what I've learned from the book, but keeping in mind that SS is a novice program, this is what Rip says (I put the most relevant bits in bold):

Quote:Sets of 5 reps are optimal for learning barbell exercises. It is apparent from electromyography (EMG, a recording of neuromuscular electrical activity, top) and force plate data (a measure of muscular force generated, bottom) that there is a progressive loss of motor coordination as reps increase. In reps 1–5, the muscle is firing in a coordinated manner, with tight, uniform EMG waves and consistent force production. By reps 10–14, there is a loss of motor coordination, with erratic EMG wave and force continuity. By reps 25–29, EMG activity is highly random and force production has deteriorated. Using more than 5 reps per set during the learning phase of a new exercise will usually make correct technique harder to reproduce and master.

Rippetoe, Mark (2012-01-13). Starting Strength (Kindle Locations 7589-7594). The Aasgaard Company. Kindle Edition.

Quote:Sets of five reps are a very effective compromise for the novice, and even for the advanced lifter more interested in strength than in muscular endurance. They allow enough weight to be used that force production must increase, but they are not so heavy that the cardiovascular component is completely absent from the exercise. Sets of five may be the most useful rep range you will use over your entire training career, and as long as you lift weights, sets of five will be important.

Rippetoe, Mark (2012-01-13). Starting Strength (Kindle Locations 7612-7615). The Aasgaard Company. Kindle Edition.
(This post was last modified: 08-23-2013 08:09 PM by RexImperator.)
08-23-2013 08:08 PM
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Post: #198
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
(08-23-2013 04:17 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  All my lifts involve going for 3 sets of 12.

What's the benefit of switching to 5x5. Seems like alot of guys on here do this?

Strength. You can use a lot higher weight and get stronger much quicker on a 3x5 or 5x5 than on a 3x12. You can also build a lot of muscle on a 3x5 or 5x5.

5x5 is actually an old bodybuilder routine. Most of the famous bodybuilders you have heard of have probably used it.

I prefer 3x5 for my main lifts like bench, squat, rows, etc. and 3x8-10 for my accessory work like weighted dips, curls, skull crushers, etc.

Starting Strength is a beginners program, but not because it is a 3x5. It is a beginners program because it is liner progression, I.E. you add weight each workout. 3x5/5x5 is not strictly a beginners program, it is just a rep/set range. Lots of different 5x5 programs out there for varying experience levels.
08-23-2013 11:11 PM
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Hades Offline
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Post: #199
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
Rippetoe is big on GOMAD which I think can be a bad idea on as little volume as is prescribed by SS, on three sets of five reps of squats three times per week you're probably going to end up with diabetes.

You can do the SS program but substitute his squatting rep scheme for one set of 20 or 30 reps (take plenty of breaths between reps) and aim for the same progressive overload. Do two or three workouts and then try to bump the weight up ten pounds or whatever.
Once you have shitloads of hypertrophy built (which should happen in a hurry, make sure to buy new pants beforehand) you can go for like ten to twenty sets of heavy singles, doubles, and triples to build up better strength and leave the gym fresh.

Many sets of heavy singles, doubles, and triples are what serious lifters do for strength gains, they don't mess around with sets of 5 because it will reduce the overall volume that they can lift in a session and increase the time it will take to recover. Jamie Lewis did exactly what Rippetoe recommended for four months and actually lost twenty pounds on his bench press.

So in short, don't bother too much with his research, recall that he's testing his supposedly superior rep scheme on mediocre athletes who do nothing but sets of 5 reps. He's never managed to take a guy from loser to champion powerlifter and with good reason.
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2013 12:20 AM by Hades.)
08-24-2013 12:16 AM
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Post: #200
RE: Weightlifting: Starting Strength
Starting Strength is ok. I don't like the whole cult behind it or Rippetoe though.
08-24-2013 10:10 AM
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