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Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
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scorpion Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
I think the divided reactions to this video are due primarily to age and experience. To guys under 30 (especially under 25) and who have recently experienced the benefits of self-improvement, this sounds like heresy. But if you've been at that game for awhile you have a different perspective. Self-improvement is like many other things in life: a little bit goes a long way. The difference between not lifting at all and following a simple 3x a week routine is enormous, and the practical benefits will be very noticeable. But if you want to maintain that level of muscular self-improvement over time you will be forced to make lifting and nutrition your entire lifestyle. Within a few years you will be forced to take steroids. Your social life will suffer as you must avoid most food, alcohol and nightlife activities. What began as a relatively simple and easy way to make noticeable improvements to your life quickly turned into an obsession where you're grinding out tiny improvements over long periods of time.

The same applies with learning game. If you're starting with zero sexual history and/or have poor social skills for whatever reason, then putting in the effort to learn some game will have huge benefits. But after awhile the amount of effort you have to put in will not be commensurate with the benefits you're getting back. Roosh himself is the best example of this. Game became his entire life, but as the years went on he was able to receive less and less satisfaction from it.

Basically, for everything there is a season. "A time for war, and a time for peace." Self-improvement is essentially to declare a state of war with your existing self. But you can't remain at war forever. After awhile you're either going to win or lose depending on the endeavor at hand (i.e. with lifting and game, almost everyone will "win" to some degree, but with starting businesses or taking other big risks many guys will lose despite their best efforts), and at some point it's best to accept the hand you've been dealt and move on to other things in life.

I think most guys would do well to focus heavily on self-improvement from age 16-25 or so. Lifting/fitness, game/social circle and setting yourself up for a lucrative career should be your top priorities. Just like compounding interest, early investments you make in yourself will have enormous back-end benefits for the rest of your life. It's never too late to start, but it's always better to start early if you can. But at some point, especially once you've achieved a good level of success in different area of life, this desire to constantly make yourself "better" will become poisonous and self-destructive. It will prevent you from actually enjoying the fruits of your labor and peace of mind generally.

Let go of the insecurity that tells you that you aren't good enough if you aren't constantly improving at something. It's a useful motivator at times, but it's no way to live your life over the long term. If you're a man and you've got your bases covered - you're in reasonably good shape, you're romantically and sexually fulfilled, you've secured a decent career for yourself, perhaps you've started a family - if you've done these things then you've really got nothing else to prove to anyone. It doesn't matter if you aren't the best in the world at something. It doesn't matter that you don't speak fluent Portuguese and haven't nailed a Brazilian 10 at a New Years Eve party in a penthouse in Rio. It doesn't matter that you haven't made millions of dollars and retired by 40 for a life of leisure.

Taken past a certain point, self-improvement turns into self-sabotage. And we must recognize the difference between self-improvement undertaken to correct a deficit, and self-improvement born entirely out of vanity and insecurity. Successfully walking that line is one of the keys to living a life that is filled with both achievement through hard work and dedication and the actual enjoyment (both material and psychological) of those achievements.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
12-04-2016 09:20 AM
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RoastBeefCurtains4Me Offline

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Post: #27
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
I think Roosh made this video thinking about high functioning men who are overly driven and unable to stop and smell the roses. Most men, even on this forum, are not at this level.

Most men are playing catch up, as the red pill has opened their eyes to finally recognize the many ways they have been fucking up. Once your eyes are opened, it takes a lot of time and effort to get on the right track and achieve payoffs in fitness, career, game, and mindset. Most of us are still working on this. It's the nature of the human experience.

Even if you think you've got things figured out and your life is on point, times change, the culture changes, your industry changes, you enter a different age bracket, the rules change. Now you're playing catch up to get on top of fitness, work, game, and mindset, even in areas you previously thought were locked down.

Often, you think you have your life in control, and then suddenly discover the hard way that some area of life was not in control at all.

So, if all the areas in your life are already optimized 95%, and you're busting your ass to get to 105%, you might want to take Roosh's message to heart. Heck, maybe most men should consider relaxing if their lives are 70% optimized. I think this is rare. For most men, I think self improvement is desperately needed, as much and as soon as possible.

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(This post was last modified: 12-04-2016 09:46 AM by RoastBeefCurtains4Me.)
12-04-2016 09:34 AM
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chakalaka Offline

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Post: #28
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
I think the basic message is don´t overdo it. Aristotle said something about the midle being the virtue.
12-04-2016 10:07 AM
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Malo Offline

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Post: #29
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
(12-03-2016 05:30 AM)262 Wrote:  IMO, you have to find a balance between self-improvement and self-acceptance.

Yes and it's actually easier than it sounds. What you need to accept is your own goals in life. You need to consider them valid no matter how 'low key' or 'unusual' they seem to be.

Then self improve to achieve your *own* goals.

My point is that people take on goals that they have no visceral passion for, because it's trendy in their environment (whether that env is red or blue pill, it doesn't matter).

Then, it's no wonder they have difficult time following through on their self improvement efforts.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2016 11:29 AM by Malo.)
12-05-2016 11:21 AM
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stefpdt Offline

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Post: #30
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
(12-03-2016 08:03 PM)dies irae Wrote:  This is a weak video.

Roosh looks confused and I couldn’t even figure out which audience he is speaking to.

Roosh’s definition of self-improvement is also vague. There are many holes in his argument and what he deems unnecessary self-improvement is not self-improvement at all.

I generally agree with your perspective, but I don't think it's cool to call this video weak.

I'm at a very different place in life than where Roosh is at, but I still managed to take away tons of value from his message here.

- Status symbols and major material possessions only appease the ego or your "lower self". The fact that Roosh is even willing to admit this is practically a gift, since everyone else on the internet is trying to keep this a secret from the public (people wanna sell you shit).

- This video reinforced my belief that "self development" is a better angle than "self improvement". Might be a nuanced point to make, but the key is in development and not improvement (you're *already* enough, get it?)

- Human willpower truly is an amazing thing. Use your willpower for reasons that actually satisfy you, not to appease your ego or others

- I think this video was targeted at guys who already have money, location independence, and abundant sex - but still manage to create self-imposed limitations (believing that they aren't enough).

- I also think Roosh's message reflects learning how to thrive and stop living in scarcity. When you constantly think that you aren't enough (self-improvement) you're always going to be in scarcity mode. When you choose to believe that you live like a king (which is true in every sense of today's world) - you're already "thriving" because you're coming from a place of abundance. This allows you to think more clearly and make better decisions over the long term...and ironically make more money, have more sex, be more present, and enjoy life more.
12-06-2016 02:01 AM
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dknightbro Offline

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Post: #31
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
I think levels of self-improvement + self-acceptance varies for each individual

Obviously there is a baseline of what's considered good, but I think time is better spent finding your own baseline and living it rather than concerning what others think or do

I've followed my own instincts when it comes to what I want to do with life and am happier than ever before

I also lean more towards self-improvement, but my self-acceptance has improved due to daily introspection + facing fears/challenges

I strive, but I don't self-hate in the process because I have everything I want already

Surgically precise game is best game.

(This post was last modified: 12-06-2016 03:35 AM by dknightbro.)
12-06-2016 03:32 AM
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RawGod Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
Now that I'm older, it feels like most of the "self-improvement" I've engaged in over the last decade has in fact just been natural growth. You can really stress yourself out trying to learn or grow faster than is natural. And as Roosh says, everything comes with opportunity cost.

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12-06-2016 03:57 AM
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YMD Offline

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Post: #33
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
I agree with 262.
Improving yourself is one thing, but getting paranoid is another. Obsessive self-improvement can be denial of your current state.
12-07-2016 04:21 AM
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Jazzman92 Offline

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Post: #34
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
So I've personally gone the opposite direction as Roosh. I originally thought self-improvement was unnecessary but now I think it's important as long it is a genuine desire to improve onself, and not to simply satisfy the opinions of people who are irrelevant in your life.

I believe that humans naturally have an aversion to pain and gravitate towards actions which provide them with the greatest amount of pleasure at the moment. The problem with this is that the things which give us pleasure at the moment can lead to unhappiness and self destructive behavior in the future. If you focus on improving yourself and doing difficult tasks now, you will gain more in the future. For instance, if I ignore the discomfort associated with physically exerting myself and force myself to go to the gym to lift heavy, I will eventually reap the benefits of working out. If I did what I felt like doing at the moment, I would never experience true pleasure. The momentary pain leads to greater amounts of pleasure later on.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2016 03:26 PM by Jazzman92.)
12-09-2016 03:23 PM
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John Michael Kane Offline

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Post: #35
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
I disagree that self-improvement isn't necessary. By definition, life is a learning process. If you aren't improving upon the way, you're regressing. We do not live in a vacuum. This isn't about beating yourself up for "not being good enough" but rather how do I become a better version of myself? It requires introspection, something that Roosh has plenty of, otherwise we wouldn't be here in his tribe. Practiced self-improvement, be it with language, weight lifting, reading books and so forth are extremely masculine pass times.

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12-09-2016 05:42 PM
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Travesty Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
This thought is for people at the top of the needs hierarchy, not only in physical needs, also in needs to have challenged oneself, and have enjoyable experiences that are mostly materialistic or carnal in nature. Only very exceptional human beings in the modern world could accept this thought process after seeing what the world and life can offer a man online and forgo trying to experience it himself.

So this advice is Roosh talking to other future Roosh's.

A) Have many good friends
B) Have escaped the rat race (enormous benefit) & are financially stable for the lifestyle they prefer
C) Have an enjoyable relationship with the opposite sex
D) Physically fit and are healthy
E) Have a mind that has explored and weighed many subjects
F) Have explored the world
G) Live somewhere that has a culture congruent to his own personal values

I mean without these his advice in this video is for the birds.

He has officially become a philosopher walking in the olive tree grove.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2016 06:02 PM by Travesty.)
12-09-2016 05:57 PM
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MrBoombastic Offline

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Post: #37
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
The million dollar question here then is: Should we not waste time learning game and instead spend that time doing something else? This would tie up with the MGTOW philosophy
12-09-2016 11:47 PM
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michelin Offline

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Post: #38
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
Roosh made an excellent video, just a few months ago, titled 9 Self-Improvement Tips For American Women

The last video on ""Self-improvement is unnecessary" weakens (or at least contradicts) that statement. If Self-improvement as such is unnecessary, then nobody will buy the argument that it only applies to women (or American women), not men.

Critical reflection on concepts is always good, but I'm afraid we're throwing the baby with the water here... There is a lot of BS in the Self-help industry, and perhaps that's what Roosh was pointing at when posting this video. Yet "self-help" (as a marketing term and lucrative industry) and "self-improvement" are different concepts to me.

Any thoughts?

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(This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 06:23 AM by michelin.)
12-10-2016 06:10 AM
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Roosh Offline

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Post: #39
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
Someone did Russian captions:

01-17-2017 04:30 PM
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SegaSaturn1994 Offline

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Post: #40
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"
I don't know if this relates to this very well but it just goes to show how there's always something interesting to get better in and how it can be linked to girls if you like.

I started dancing when I was almost 30. I'm still in my early 30's technically and dancing has been very humbling for me because I'm not musically gifted and supposedly have Aspergers so my motor skills may not the best. Whenever the instructor would ask us to do a move across the studio individually or in groups, I would always stare at my feet trying to get it and not even bother with synchronizing my arms to the movement or else I would be completely lost. I did not look down simply to get my feet right but also because the studio was invariably filled with hot young girls and I was too embarrassed to hold my head up high knowing that I was not impressing anyone with my skills.

Has this radically changed? No it has not so far but just today I had a feeling that I was getting a movement right, even if my arms were not synchronized and there was a cute young girl there who struggled a lot too. I did not hold my head up high and exchange gazes with girls but I felt like as if I might actually be making progress and it led me to think that there might come a day when I can get my moves right while still eyeing girls' eyes briefly for IOI's or just plain old smiles of appreciation. I look forward to that moment when I'll be signaling confidence and have girls look at my body for clues of how to move right instead of me looking at hotties' legs to keep me from derailing completely. It also made me think about CM Punk's UFC debut at around Roosh's age, where he was hyped up and then lost and some said he started out too old. I started dancing quite late relative to those who end up becoming teachers, perhaps 15-25 years later, but I can still improve and I'm still several years younger than someone else. I feel like I found a nice niche to stand out in after initial embarrasment.

If we can visualize something entirely different, novel and inspiring, then we have space for more self-improvement still. Bragging rights are a motivator but not always enough.
01-17-2017 05:35 PM
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3extra Offline

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Post: #41
RE: Roosh YouTube: "Self-improvement is unnecessary"

Alan Watts had is sussed. As always.
01-17-2017 08:57 PM
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