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1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
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armenia4ever Offline
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1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
We've been talking about Richard Spencer and the NPI debacle for a while now. Unlike Cernovich, I'm not sure Spencer is controlled opposition.

However, he's not on the "right".

So why the hell does that matter? Most of us of have an unofficial kind of code, that Vox Day summed up as, "No enemies to the right." After all, the left doesn't denounce the radical BLM types, communist "anarchists" burning down portland, and all the other rad left types who advocate for horrible things. So why should we?

We should focus our attention on those on the left. Again however, Spencer, the 1488ers, Stormfront, and even some at TRS aren't right wing. They are radical progressives and should be treated as such.

The fact that hold common ground with us in believing that Western civilization is a good thing and that "white" people are under attack doesn't excuse the rest of what they advocate for.

Most of what they support, Hitler and the Reich- who they admire were and still are left-wing principles tied to a heavy form of government controlled socialism.

Notice how they caved to feminism? How we've heard that socialism only works with "white" people? Or that traditional and Christian morals are to be discarded for some kind of pseudo cult racial secularism? The nazis despised Christianity, because like their marxist brethren, they wanted to stamp it out - it was a threat to the power of the state. (Hitler declared that the state would be the new God)

Progressives during the rise of Hitler lauded him as a progressive and wanted the US and Europe to follow in his footsteps. While some of us may not like Jonah Goldberg for either being a cuck or a bad jew, he makes some important points in "Liberal Fascism" that are particularly relevant to what's happening to the Alt-Right.

Let's start digging, the article, "The American Roots Of Fascism" makes the point:

Quote:"Hayek's challenge was to argue that German Nazism was not an aberrant "right-wing" perversion growing out of the "contradictions" of capitalism. Instead, the Nazi movement had developed out of the "enlightened" and "progressive" socialist and collectivist ideas of the pre-World War I era, which many intellectuals in England and the United States had praised and propagandized for in their own countries."

Those intellectuals it talks about, included prominent progressive academics, journalists, and even statesman. Lenin, Mussolini, and Hitler were all lauded as "Progressives". Why?

Quote:HG Wells said of Lenin, "He is the great hope of reform and progressivism."

The New York Times said of Lenin, " He is a visionary leader with progressive ideas and a practical plan."

The Washington Post said of Lenin, "The world owes him a debt of gratitude for his farsighted perspective of the issues of the day."


Now we know Lenin was a "progressive", but what about the two supposed fascists of the 20th century? Aren't they on the right side of the spectrum, and not progressives?

What about Mussolini?

Quote:George Benard Shaw,"He is a marvelous reformer and a great progressive."

Ghandi, "He is a superman, the model for all we hope to accomplish in India."

The Archbishop of Canterbury, "He is the one great figure in all of Europe. His ideas are sound, his principles are solid, and his virtues are evident to all."

FDR, (Governor of New York at the time.) "If we were countrymen, I am sure I would have been with him from beginning to end."

The poet Wallace Stevens pronounced himself “pro-Mussolini personally.”
The eminent historian Charles Beard wrote of Mussolini’s efforts: “Beyond question, an amazing experiment is being made [in Italy], an experiment in reconciling individualism and socialism.”

Muckraking journalists almost universally admired Mussolini. Lincoln Steffens, for one, said that Italian fascism made Western democracy, by comparison, look like a system run by “petty persons with petty purposes.” Mussolini, Steffens proclaimed reverently, had been “formed” by God “out of the rib of Italy.”

McClure’s Magazine founder Samuel McClure, an important figure in the muckraking movement, described Italian fascism as “a great step forward and the first new ideal in government since the founding of the American Republic.”

After having visited Italy and interviewed Mussolini in 1926, the American humorist Will Rogers, who was informally dubbed “Ambassador-at-Large of the United States” by the National Press Club, said of the fascist dictator:
“I’m pretty high on that bird.” “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government,” Rogers wrote, “that is, if you have the right dictator.”

Reporter Ida Tarbell was deeply impressed by Mussolini's attitudes regarding labor, affectionately dubbing him “a despot with a dimple.”

FDR adviser Rexford Guy Tugwell said of Italian fascism: “It's the cleanest, neatest, most efficiently operating piece of social machinery I've ever seen. It makes me envious.”

Or Hitler?

Quote:H. G. Wells, one of the most influential progressives of the 20th century, said in 1932 that progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis.” Regarding totalitarianism, he stated: “I have never been able to escape altogether from its relentless logic.”

Calling for a “‘Phoenix Rebirth’ of Liberalism” under the umbrella of “Liberal Fascism,” Wells said: “I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis.”

NAACP co-founder W. E. B. DuBois saw National Socialism as a worthy model for economic organization. The establishment of the Nazi dictatorship in Germany, he wrote, had been “absolutely necessary to get the state in order.” In 1937 DuBois stated: “there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past.”


Remember, this is coming from the man who founded many of the foundations for "Systematic racism" and the social justice nonsense we see today - expressed in "The Souls Of Black Folk"

Quote:New Republic editor George Soule, who avidly supported FDR, noted approvingly that the Roosevelt administration was “trying out the economics of fascism.”

Playwright George Bernard Shaw hailed Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini as the world’s great “progressive” leaders because they “did things,” unlike the leaders of those “putrefying corpses” called parliamentary democracies.

James Blanton, the president of Hunter College at the time said, "He is destined to go down in history as one of our greatest reformers."

The president of Columbia college in New York City said, " He has a clear economic plan that should prove to be the model for progressive reform around the world."

The New York Times said, "At last a leader with courage who can move the world toward progressive reform in a sane and sensible fashion. Surely his enemies will be shamed in the future and surely even the oppressed masses of the world will look to him as their liberator. "

There is something that should stand out here. In the minds of the liberals at the beginning of the 20th century, there was no substantial difference between the programs of the Communists and the Fascists. We are led to believe that fascism and communism are ideological, political, and philosophical opposites with one being a right wing heresy, and the other a left wing heresy.

The liberal progressives of the time saw these 3 men as essentially the same. This is why Himmler said as late as 1944, "There is no essential difference between the programs of the communists and the programs of the fascists for world domination.

From Gobbels himself, "… it is not for nothing that we have chosen the name National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP), because at heart we are Communists."'

Hitler and the nazis and their left-wing principles are what Spencer admires and advocates. All of that. But there's more...

After the war in East Germany, 90 out of the top 100 officials who made up the upper echelons of the East German communist government had been nazi leaders. Hitler in 1922 said, "The Reds and the Browns, we are brothers in the revolution for the liberation of the world. We stand with our comrades in the western world who push for progressive liberal reform and we stand for all eternity."

Essentially no damn difference in their progressive liberal reform.


Look at planks of the nazi party that Hitler advocated for and the 11 commandments of progressivism issued by left-wing feminist and senator Elizabeth Warren about a year ago. Do you see what I see?


Quote:We believe that Wall Street needs stronger rules and tougher enforcement, and we’re willing to fight for it.”

– “We believe in science, and that means that we have a responsibility to protect this Earth.”

– “We believe that the Internet shouldn’t be rigged to benefit big corporations, and that means real net neutrality.”

– “We believe that no one should work full-time and still live in poverty, and that means raising the minimum wage.”

– “We believe that fast-food workers deserve a livable wage, and that means that when they take to the picket line, we are proud to fight alongside them.”

– “We believe that students are entitled to get an education without being crushed by debt.”

– “We believe that after a lifetime of work, people are entitled to retire with dignity, and that means protecting Social Security, Medicare, and pensions.”

– “We believe—I can’t believe I have to say this in 2014—we believe in equal pay for equal work.”

– “We believe that equal means equal, and that’s true in marriage, it’s true in the workplace, it’s true in all of America.”

– “We believe that immigration has made this country strong and vibrant, and that means reform.”

– “And we believe that corporations are not people, that women have a right to their bodies. We will overturn Hobby Lobby and we will fight for it. We will fight for it!”

Lets now look at the Nazi party's planks:

Quote:1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.

2. We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.

4. Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.

5. Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.

6. The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.

We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness.

7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.

23. We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:


I don't know about you, but none of this is right wing. Even the NeoReaction crowd who back a return to Monarchy arent at this level of totalitarian control.

This is what Spencer is supporting. Somehow, it's all okay and should be ignored because of his white nationalism and willingness to call out the juden.

Why should give him a free pass when what he advocates for is not rightwing, but rather almost everything he supports is "progressive".

Radical liberals may be Stalinists and Spencer and his supporters may be Trotsykists, but nevertheless they are Bolsheviks and opposed to
everything we believe will actually make Western culture great again.

This isn't an attack on white nationalism. There's nothing wrong with pride - especially with every other minority group doing the same thing.

The nazis however were about far more than that and to give them and Hitler all sorts of reverence and respect goes far beyond pride. It's toxic to the Alt-Right and associates us with a Reich that was left-wing in almost every way.

Spencer no more owns the claim to the Alt-Right than Woodrow Wilson, FDR, or Bill Clinton own the definition as to what it means to be a progressive liberal.

Yes, white's are under attack. Western values are under attack. Much of what made Western civilization great is under attack. The nazis, Hitler, etc contributed to that attack, and we shouldn't forget what they actually advocated for and wanted to do. Slavs, gypsies, and all sorts of other "Whites" weren't in his plans. Don't forget that when we consider Spencer and who idolizes.

"Be a leader and never ever follow" That's what my father, that's what he always told me. So with those words boldly spoken, he sent me down a long and hard road.

My site and my journey into marriage and fatherhood.

Deus Vult brothers.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2016 08:47 PM by armenia4ever.)
12-09-2016 08:33 PM
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Atlanta Man Offline
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
This thread is going to be entertaining.....
12-09-2016 08:49 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
This thread is exactly going in the direction I was hoping for....

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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
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12-09-2016 09:17 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
At least he's not a nihilist...



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12-09-2016 09:23 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
I think the modern white nationalists are more concerned with the racial makeup of their country than imposing economic fascism on everyone.

Given voting patterns by race it's predominantly white males who favor limited government capitalist-type policies anyways. What turns any able-bodied male of any race into a socialist is beyond me though.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2016 09:30 PM by Disco_Volante.)
12-09-2016 09:29 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
@Disco

He makes a good point that people focus so much on phase 1 of their plan they don't consider phase 2. . . .
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2016 09:35 PM by Repo.)
12-09-2016 09:35 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
(12-09-2016 09:35 PM)Repo Wrote:  @Disco

He makes a good point that people focus so much on phase 1 of their plan they don't consider phase 2. . . .

No one considers Phase 2.

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12-09-2016 10:01 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
(12-09-2016 08:33 PM)armenia4ever Wrote:  We've been talking about Richard Spencer and the NPI debacle for a while now. Unlike Cernovich, I'm not sure Spencer is controlled opposition.

However, he's not on the "right".

....

That is a WALL of text, so I didn't even read it. However, as for your impetus.....

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12-09-2016 10:02 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
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12-09-2016 10:27 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
Solid takedown of the economic policies of the NSDAP. Updated your rep. The reverence of State I think is a far-right principle, but only certain tribes adhere to it. Rome, for example, worshipped the state, which was eventually made manifest in the Emperor. Hitler envisioned the same thing, and socialist economic policies would allow for his own panem et circenses to placate the Germans when they realized they were slaves in their own homeland, no better off than before, only with a quarter-Jew bastard as their Führer and not full Jew bankers.

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12-09-2016 11:27 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
Why does "wing" matter?

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12-09-2016 11:34 PM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
Why do you think Cernovich is "controlled opposition"?
12-10-2016 02:55 AM
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RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
I say the following as an American of European heritage.

Although I'm sympathetic to anyone who takes pride in their tribe (in this case, white people), I have to say the average White Nationalist is a complete social retard. Look, if you want a white majority country, you need to work on your game (attracting women at first) and also keeping them. After that point, you should, in theory, wife her up and start putting tons of white buns in her oven. Still, after reading many of articles and forum posts at various WN sites, there seems to be very little knowledge as to how to navigate social circles, much less attract and keep a woman. Most of them seem lonely and on the autistic spectrum. Praising Hitler? Oh Hell no! I don't like statist bastards, be they Mao, Hitler or Stalin. The ends DO NOT justify the means. These guys desperately need to learn from Trump on how to persuade people. The problem that most WN's I've seen are too concerned with "here's what we don't like about current culture" and too little of "here's our gameplan on how to fix it", much less "we're now executing our gameplan". Look, leftist Jews are a genuine pain in the ass towards any traditionalist man, but if you aren't man enough to start your own family and convince others to join your tribe, you can't blame it all on the Jews. Suffice it to say I have very little love lost for the average WN until he starts down the path of self-awareness, if he can muster it.

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12-10-2016 03:28 AM
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Post: #15
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
It's not just a white issue, anyone who hopes to have a safe place to raise children along with a degree of economic freedom and chance for success, by default, will need a white area to live. Unless you think El Salvador or Somalia will be suitable places, you're out of luck because every major European / American metropolis is importing these people by the busload.

Whites are handicapped in the fight because they are following rules. If you're in Malmo, Sweden you think running social circle game is going to change anything against hordes of violent muzzies? You think debating policy and dating a girl for 2 years will do anything whilst your opposition is squeezing out 6 kids per woman?

They're not leaving whites any reasonable options, their birthrates, use of welfare, and complete disregard for the host countries is rapidly destroying the future of so many European cities. The list of safe places to live is shrinking every year.

The immigrants have instincts almost like animals, they push, demand, fuck, and take more without hesitation or concern. There's no debating with them. Every year whites spend debating about how offensive our language is just puts another nail in the coffin of western civ.
I don't see how any race of man could want to raise his children in the myriad of unstable non-white shitholes countries.

All that beautiful European architecture and you see hordes of muslims around it is a sickening sight. The end of whites will be very bad for the world, I don't see how there can be a recovery when the lowest IQ people are rapidly outbreeding everyone else.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 03:51 AM by Disco_Volante.)
12-10-2016 03:45 AM
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Post: #16
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
Well Nazis originally were a left wing populist party, but then they became corporatist.
12-10-2016 04:16 AM
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Post: #17
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
There are several types of white nationalists.

There are the hardcore types that actually talk the talk and walk the walk, but they're quite rare. That would be this guy...

[Image: lead_large.png]

But the vast bulk of them are simply the generic brand of underachiever who want to be part of an exclusive club that they get automatic entry to, no questions asked.

You'll see exactly the same kind of person vehemently screaming at a referee for robbing their beloved sports team of a rightly deserved victory, or sipping shit coffee at the next meeting of the local communist branch party meeting.

In the case of the lazy white nationalist, that would be this woman...

[Image: the-jewish-conspiracy-is-why-im-not-a-winner.jpg]

And then you have what I suspect is a slim minority that simply look at the logistics of the thing and dispassionately suggest that when whites are a minority in their nations that everything is more or less going to fall to shit and that they don't want that to happen.

Of course, to the progressives they are all the guy in the first picture.

The irony is that if you ask the average white nationalist what terms like 'collectivism' and 'centralised government' mean then they'd look at you blankly. Though they might idolise Hitler they have no idea whatsoever of what the man stood for except some vague understanding of "white power".

Sad!
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 04:22 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
12-10-2016 04:20 AM
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Post: #18
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
Clearly the issue here is that what's needed is a form of white nationalism that's restricted to good-looking people. 6'2" physically fit blondes in Hugo Boss outfits are fine by me, but once you get the pig-faced people coming down from the hills the whole movement just lacks panache.
12-10-2016 04:31 AM
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Post: #19
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
This is a great thread and maybe tomorrow when I'm not doing anything I'll count up all of the words that end in ist in it because holy cow there's a lot of them.

Aloha!
12-10-2016 04:51 AM
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Kona Offline
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Post: #20
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
And I get it and thought the same myself.

Some of these conservatives went so far right that they're now left.

Its similar to the college that is so progressive it has a separate but equal dorm. Or what they used to say about that Geert Wilder guy, that Amsterdam is so tolerant its intolerant.

From the minority man standpoint I say watch out because in a couple of years the national guard will be at the college to block the black people from entering.

Aloha!
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 05:14 AM by Kona.)
12-10-2016 05:13 AM
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Valentine Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
Your argument would be more convincing if you focused on providing proof that they are anti-Capitalism, rather than focusing on proving that Hitler was.

Also even if the idol of all of them was Hitler, who's to say they buy into everything he did?

Trump certainly is a role model for me, but his belief in global surveillance is distasteful. But I accept nobody's perfect and it's impossible to find someone to idolise who has no flaws.

The reason the whole "no enemies to the Right" line was born was to emphasise that we should set aside our differences to win the more important battles.

Likewise they could be using him as symbol to rally behind to just save the depleting white population, as Disco Volante has already noted.

(12-10-2016 05:13 AM)Kona Wrote:  And I get it and thought the same myself.

Some of these conservatives went so far right that they're now left.

Its similar to the college that is so progressive it has a separate but equal dorm. Or what they used to say about that Geert Wilder guy, that Amsterdam is so tolerant its intolerant.

From the minority man standpoint I say watch out because in a couple of years the national guard will be at the college to block the black people from entering.

Aloha!

You're conflating conservatism with fascism.

And what you're really describing there with the college is in actuality Authoritarian Leftism.

[Image: BkuAfco.png]
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 06:47 AM by Valentine.)
12-10-2016 06:25 AM
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I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
No wait hold on hold on...


You see...


It's them....


Democrats are the REAL racists!
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 07:37 AM by I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE.)
12-10-2016 07:37 AM
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Post: #23
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
(12-10-2016 06:25 AM)Valentine Wrote:  ...
[Image: BkuAfco.png]

What's the difference between left wing economics and right wing economics?

By definition economics is strictly an authoritarian vs libertarian issue.
12-10-2016 09:30 AM
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nomadbrah Offline
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Post: #24
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
Stopped reading at 'nazis are progressives'. Nazism was a direct and very defined opposition to progressiveness. Blood and Soil agrarianism and romantication of rural living and values. City life viewed as degenerate and unnatural. Nazi top brass were Wodanist pagans and took it quite seriously.

Overall, lacking in knowledge but good effort, 5/10.
12-10-2016 09:54 AM
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Post: #25
RE: 1488ers, StormFront, and even Richard Spencer are Leftists.
(12-10-2016 09:30 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  What's the difference between left wing economics and right wing economics?

By definition economics is strictly an authoritarian vs libertarian issue.

Left wing = collectivism, right wing = individualism; whereas authoritarianism vs libertarianism is whether this is state-imposed or voluntary.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 10:14 AM by Valentine.)
12-10-2016 10:13 AM
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