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Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
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Graft Offline
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Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Someone had asked for a datasheet on sales as a profession, and with the proliferation of useless college degrees and high living costs, this could be the only shot that a non-technical person has to gain a six figure lifestyle.

What you need: Hunger, balls, confidence, speaking ability, resilience, and more than likely a college degree. Most of these core qualities of sales cannot be taught.

Ground rules: Always be in B2B, or business to business, with the largest businesses possible. Any B2C (door-to-door, life insurance, residential real estate, financial advising, mortgages) has a very high failure rate, with a single digit percent of the top salespeople making significant coin. You can make seven figures in any of these industries, but the odds are so slim that you would be better off starting your own company.

Always ask how big the companies are that you'll be selling to. Are you selling to Exxon and Citibank? Or Al's Landscaping? Which do you think you'll make more money?

At least 50% of sales jobs are scams, where you will be given no tools to succeed, a shitty product, and an unemployment claim in a few months. Ask the sales manager for a "stack rank," a ranking of all the current salespeople, before you get hired. How many are hitting their annual goal? What is the average earnings? If only 20% of the reps are hitting the goal set for them by the company, then that job has an 80% chance of being a failure for you. Look for 75% and up to be hitting their quota.

Ask what the marketing team does. They can do anything from "Here is a list of 100 people that told us they want to buy our product!" to "make your own list of 100 people to cold-call." If you have options, obviously take the former.

The sales jobs that pay the highest on average will be those that combine sales skills with technical skills. Most sales guys are not technical, and most technical guys are not sales-y.

Industries

Recruiting: A good field for any useful idiot out of college to start with. They'll give you a phone and a Linkedin account, companies will hire you to find a specific candidate, and you'll scour Linkedin to find him and give him a job offer. As with any sales position, you can make good money, especially if you are a "headhunter," someone who recruits for high level $300k+ positions. Typically you get 1-2 months of the base salary of your placement, so if you place an engineering candidate with $100k salary you'll get $10-20k. Even though you can make big bucks if you get to recruiting CEOs, any idiot with a phone can do it, it's non-technical, and you're easily replaceable, so try to do this for a year or two and get into something else.

Medical: You'll start out in pharmaceutical sales, with a $40-60k base, with bonuses taking you to 2-3 times your base, depending on performance. I've seen pharma reps get $80-90k base, but that's only with a few years of successful outside sales experience. Pharma reps basically cold call doctors, usually can't get in touch with them, and deal with the receptionist/office manager who is accustomed to dealing with the reps from various pharmaceutical companies. It then turns into a game: you stop by the office and buy lunch for the whole office. She then schedules you for 15 minutes on the doctors calendar where you make your spiel.

Pharma is a good way to make $100-150k on 20 hr work weeks. Drop off a few lunches, stop in a few offices, have a few appointments, work from home, relax. They like degrees in bio, but they are not necessary. Pharma also has a ton of attractive females (more than any other industry by far) because of their ability to woo male doctors. It's a fairly easy sales job for decent money, but the industries glory days are behind it. What you really want to be in, is medical device.

Medical device sales is very hard to break into and requires both experience selling into the medical vertical (through pharma or possibly dental) as well as some technical knowledge on biomedical devices. The hours are terrible: you need to be in the operating/doctors office whenever there is a crucial surgery to instruct him how to use the new products he is buying. The pay is one of the best in the sales field. $125k base with $250k OTE (on target earnings), but you can get up to $500k and more if you blow out your number. Med device is a solid career, but long term outlook is risky-margins are getting lower, OTE is getting lower, healthcare as a field is becoming more regulated and socialized.

Oil and Gas: Don't know too much about this because it's very Texas and oil-cities based, but I've heard you can make bank and most likely requires engineering background.

Finance: Finance is pretty simple from the viewpoint that I'll explain it at. Again, only do B2B. Avoid any type of personal stockbroker, life insurance, high net worth financial advisor, small business loans, etc. The Gordon Gekko/Boiler Room days are over.

If you are considering a career in institutional financial sales (selling to hedge funds, mutual funds, big banks), then you are currently in or have graduated from a finance program at a good school. You already know what to do.

Tech: There are two main types of tech, software and hardware. You get bigger size deals in hardware (7, 8, even 9 figures), but the margins are much smaller at maybe 1%. Software has a range of deal sizes and jobs, but the general structure is:

1. Sales Development Representative. Take incoming leads from the marketing department, talk to them a little bit, make sure they are real and have money to buy the software. Give the lead to your boss. Then take a list, and spend the next 6-15 months cold calling and giving leads away until you get promoted. If you are doing well, start talking about a promotion 6 months in, and demand it a year in. Base should be $40-60k with $70k-110 all in. The higher end $60k-110k would be in a high COLA place like NYC or San Francisco, where the COLA is higher. Don't expect it in Nashville. No need for a technical degree or flashy internships, just show the hiring manager you can hustle.

Inside Sales: You should get promoted here after 6-12 months as an SDR, and you just graduated college! You now perform virtual demonstrations of software to smaller clients, mostly 5 figure deal sizes. You may or may not have to cold call, but you always should, as you'll make more money. If you are averse to cold calling sales is probably not for you anyway. I've seen some $50k-100k compensation plans, but in NYC or SF you should be looking for $60-75k base with $120-150k overall. Don't forget, your "OTE" is dependent on you hitting your quota, or the number that the company designates you to sell. If you miss, you'll probably get fired. If you exceed, you can make over $200k in your early 20's-not bad for liberal arts!

Outside Enterprise sales: You'll sell the same type of software that you were selling on the inside, but just to the largest companies and buyers. Big companies=big budgets=big commissions, but the time it takes to close a deal is much longer: 6-12 months. You might want to get a technical degree, or at least an company-sponsored IT certification to boost your technical cred. Typical base is $90-130k, with $200-300k OTE. Like with inside sales, if you beat your quota, you'll get "accelerators," where the commission rate doubles or triples. This is how guys make $1mm plus selling software. To get this type of job, you'll probably need 3-5 years of pure software sales experience, but you can get it by 26-27 if you do everything right at your previous positions.

Next step: $300-600k Sales director/VP where you'll make more than the average rep, but less than the best ones, and not have as heavy of a grind. You can do this route, which is fairly safe, or you can take a chance with a startup for some "shadow equity" if the company goes to IPO.

If you are reading RVF and cold approach women regularly (I personally do not), then you should have no problem dialing for dollars and advancing your way into a $300k position that is essentially game.

I welcome all questions.
12-23-2016 05:12 PM
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NewDayNewFace Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Good data sheet Graft. I have a couple of years working in car sales, technical (software and hardware), as well as recruiting. I did the above for 3 years before I started working in Healthcare IT.

For the basic guy with no degree or just receiving it should try car sales. Any smuck can walk into a dealership and get a job. It will teach you a lot about game and about sales as well. You learn how to negotiate and socialize with people. I wouldn't be as successful as I have been today if I didn't work at a dealership. I always have been competitive and when I worked at the dealership I was consistently in the top 3 sales and was making roughly 8k a month which is a lot for a 21 year old at the time. If you don't have drive and are lazy this wouldn't be for you but for someone who strives to be the best this can be a good start. I worked straight off commission and if I didn't sell then I would get minimum wage.

What type of sales have you done Graft and what kind of numbers did you/are you putting up?
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2016 05:37 PM by NewDayNewFace.)
12-23-2016 05:36 PM
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TooFineAPoint Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Nice data sheet, Graft.

Let's talk non-technical (no finance, no pharma, low info) cold calls.

In your experience and opinion, what is the most fruitful primary objective of the initial call:

1. Primary email
2. Decision maker name
3. Decision maker availability
4. Other
?
12-24-2016 12:27 AM
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Graft Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
To NewDayNewFace: That's cool that you started out really grinding, selling cars. A lot of these kids who go to the top sales programs haven't grinded like that. But it's only good if you have no degree, and you should always be striving for more. You said it yourself, you were making $96k and were in the top three. Very hard to break deep into six figures with cars, plus like any B2C industry, has been killed by the internet. I bought my car a few years ago, walked into the dealership with a set price of how much I was willing to pay because I had seen hundreds of other models for sale on the internet.

I don't want to specify (slightly paranoid about identity), I've worked in a few industries that I've mentioned above-both good and bad. I made a lot of mistakes early on that I could have avoided if I had the right mentorship. I've gotten slimed a few times in sales too, so I know that you have to be interviewing the company as much as they interview you. Right now I have a seven figure quota. I've sold a few six figure deals when I was right out of college and got paid jack shit for them. Healthcare IT is a good field though, I have a big hospital that I can sign in 2017 which could be a seven figure deal.

TooFineAPoint: 4. Decision maker! You want the DM on the phone with you, the other three are useless. If you can't get him on the phone theres a high likelyhood you won't sell him, unless you InMail him on Linkedin. If you're looking at an organization that makes you cold call people without knowing those three things, run! They have no marketing whatsoever, buying a list is the most basic marketing function that a company could do.
12-24-2016 02:59 PM
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RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
I do this!

You pretty much get in wherever in B2B do well and then move. Most everyone a few years in is making 6 figures.

It's comfy and most people like it.
12-24-2016 05:38 PM
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Crankshaft Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Awesome datasheet. I am doing d2d b2c currently, with a degree in engineering. Would you say the best transition for my next gig is in oil and gas?
12-30-2016 01:41 AM
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Unchained Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
I'm in B2B tech sales newly started, don't even have a degree yet. I'm in enterprise sales and if I kill my quota this year I'll make 6 figures. Wish me luck boy-o's
12-30-2016 11:59 AM
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Laner Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
What are typical commission structures like these days?

I need to get some sales guys moving in the next month or two.
03-30-2017 12:22 AM
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qwertyuiop Offline
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RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
(03-30-2017 12:22 AM)Laner Wrote:  What are typical commission structures like these days?

I need to get some sales guys moving in the next month or two.

Depends on the industry. If you want someone who doesn't suck base + good commission structure + benefits.
03-30-2017 08:07 PM
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captain_shane Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Thinking about getting into sales? Already in sales but looking to do better?

Read this book.

[Image: 51gJAzNghLL.jpg]

By far the best sales book I've ever read, and I've read almost everything.

David Sandler outlines his system in this book, and it'll challenge your beliefs that you were taught by old-school sellers. Things like making as many presentations you can, and selling features and benefits. You'll laugh at that shit after reading this book.

Outline of the system:

Steps:

1. Bonding and Rapport
2. Up-front Contract
3. Pain
4. Budget
5. Decision/Decision Maker
6. Fulfillment/Presentation
7. Post-Sell

His system is set up to sell based on pain. People won't buy your newest widget because it has x,y, and z features. People will buy your widget if they feel that it will help ease some sort of pain they have.

He teaches you to sell like you're a physician. You don't walk into a doctors office with a cough and he immediately tries to tell you to take x. Instead he starts asking questions that probe into the deeper issue.

Price is never an issue if you have enough pain.

Quote:Q: What makes your training so revolutionary?

Sandler: There is nothing wrong with the programs taught by Tom Hopkins, Zig Ziglar, or Dale Carnegie and other traditional trainers. The problem with those programs is that they're old.

Q: Can you explain this?

Sandler: Everybody knows these programs. Everybody knows the kind of questions Tom Hopkins graduates use. Don't you? Everybody knows how Dale Carnegie trainees repeat your name over and over. Thousands of people have gone through the Xerox selling skills course. Tens of thousands have seen Zig Ziglar on stage, on cable TV, and on video. The problem is these training courses have been around for so long that everyone knows your strategy the minute you start talking. So when you tell customers that [your product’s] price will go up next week, they'll tell you, "That's the `impending event' close, isn't it?" How can you win a Super Bowl if the opposing team has a copy of your playbook?

This book will also help you with handling shit tests from women with the "dummy curve". It's basically just acting stupid, but it works. The whole book has a lot of gems in it regarding women. I don't doubt for a second that David Sandler was a pimp when he was alive.

You know what, forget it. Sandler sales don't work at all. Keep going with Tom Hopkins or Zig Zigler. I don't want more people learning this stuff haha.
03-30-2017 08:39 PM
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Jack_Smith Offline
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RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
(03-30-2017 08:39 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  His system is set up to sell based on pain. People won't buy your newest widget because it has x,y, and z features. People will buy your widget if they feel that it will help ease some sort of pain they have.

He teaches you to sell like you're a physician. You don't walk into a doctors office with a cough and he immediately tries to tell you to take x. Instead he starts asking questions that probe into the deeper issue.

Price is never an issue if you have enough pain.

^THIS. The $1500 investment in a 2 day Sandler Bootcamp is one of the best investments a rookie sales exec could make in himself; or that a company could make in a sales rep. Sandler is the absolute best tactical sales training program, bar none. I have turned around sales and marketing in 5 companies across industries and distribution models; Sandler - using the #1 Sandler trainer is the U.S. - has been a key component of every one of those successes. He runs open bootcamps every other month or so.

AARP Player's Guide to Market-Based Body Fat Assessment.........................Youth can suck my dick.
03-30-2017 09:14 PM
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RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Thank you for this amazing post of information.

Been a hard worker ( logging/asphalt/rooftop ) all my life, work like that have always been '' candling '' to me. We were talking about those kind of jobs yesterday, must be nice to '' relax '' a little bit.

May I pm you a question or two?

(12-23-2016 05:12 PM)Graft Wrote:  Someone had asked for a datasheet on sales as a profession, and with the proliferation of useless college degrees and high living costs, this could be the only shot that a non-technical person has to gain a six figure lifestyle.

What you need: Hunger, balls, confidence, speaking ability, resilience, and more than likely a college degree. Most of these core qualities of sales cannot be taught.

Ground rules: Always be in B2B, or business to business, with the largest businesses possible. Any B2C (door-to-door, life insurance, residential real estate, financial advising, mortgages) has a very high failure rate, with a single digit percent of the top salespeople making significant coin. You can make seven figures in any of these industries, but the odds are so slim that you would be better off starting your own company.

Always ask how big the companies are that you'll be selling to. Are you selling to Exxon and Citibank? Or Al's Landscaping? Which do you think you'll make more money?

At least 50% of sales jobs are scams, where you will be given no tools to succeed, a shitty product, and an unemployment claim in a few months. Ask the sales manager for a "stack rank," a ranking of all the current salespeople, before you get hired. How many are hitting their annual goal? What is the average earnings? If only 20% of the reps are hitting the goal set for them by the company, then that job has an 80% chance of being a failure for you. Look for 75% and up to be hitting their quota.

Ask what the marketing team does. They can do anything from "Here is a list of 100 people that told us they want to buy our product!" to "make your own list of 100 people to cold-call." If you have options, obviously take the former.

The sales jobs that pay the highest on average will be those that combine sales skills with technical skills. Most sales guys are not technical, and most technical guys are not sales-y.

Industries

Recruiting: A good field for any useful idiot out of college to start with. They'll give you a phone and a Linkedin account, companies will hire you to find a specific candidate, and you'll scour Linkedin to find him and give him a job offer. As with any sales position, you can make good money, especially if you are a "headhunter," someone who recruits for high level $300k+ positions. Typically you get 1-2 months of the base salary of your placement, so if you place an engineering candidate with $100k salary you'll get $10-20k. Even though you can make big bucks if you get to recruiting CEOs, any idiot with a phone can do it, it's non-technical, and you're easily replaceable, so try to do this for a year or two and get into something else.

Medical: You'll start out in pharmaceutical sales, with a $40-60k base, with bonuses taking you to 2-3 times your base, depending on performance. I've seen pharma reps get $80-90k base, but that's only with a few years of successful outside sales experience. Pharma reps basically cold call doctors, usually can't get in touch with them, and deal with the receptionist/office manager who is accustomed to dealing with the reps from various pharmaceutical companies. It then turns into a game: you stop by the office and buy lunch for the whole office. She then schedules you for 15 minutes on the doctors calendar where you make your spiel.

Pharma is a good way to make $100-150k on 20 hr work weeks. Drop off a few lunches, stop in a few offices, have a few appointments, work from home, relax. They like degrees in bio, but they are not necessary. Pharma also has a ton of attractive females (more than any other industry by far) because of their ability to woo male doctors. It's a fairly easy sales job for decent money, but the industries glory days are behind it. What you really want to be in, is medical device.

Medical device sales is very hard to break into and requires both experience selling into the medical vertical (through pharma or possibly dental) as well as some technical knowledge on biomedical devices. The hours are terrible: you need to be in the operating/doctors office whenever there is a crucial surgery to instruct him how to use the new products he is buying. The pay is one of the best in the sales field. $125k base with $250k OTE (on target earnings), but you can get up to $500k and more if you blow out your number. Med device is a solid career, but long term outlook is risky-margins are getting lower, OTE is getting lower, healthcare as a field is becoming more regulated and socialized.

Oil and Gas: Don't know too much about this because it's very Texas and oil-cities based, but I've heard you can make bank and most likely requires engineering background.

Finance: Finance is pretty simple from the viewpoint that I'll explain it at. Again, only do B2B. Avoid any type of personal stockbroker, life insurance, high net worth financial advisor, small business loans, etc. The Gordon Gekko/Boiler Room days are over.

If you are considering a career in institutional financial sales (selling to hedge funds, mutual funds, big banks), then you are currently in or have graduated from a finance program at a good school. You already know what to do.

Tech: There are two main types of tech, software and hardware. You get bigger size deals in hardware (7, 8, even 9 figures), but the margins are much smaller at maybe 1%. Software has a range of deal sizes and jobs, but the general structure is:

1. Sales Development Representative. Take incoming leads from the marketing department, talk to them a little bit, make sure they are real and have money to buy the software. Give the lead to your boss. Then take a list, and spend the next 6-15 months cold calling and giving leads away until you get promoted. If you are doing well, start talking about a promotion 6 months in, and demand it a year in. Base should be $40-60k with $70k-110 all in. The higher end $60k-110k would be in a high COLA place like NYC or San Francisco, where the COLA is higher. Don't expect it in Nashville. No need for a technical degree or flashy internships, just show the hiring manager you can hustle.

Inside Sales: You should get promoted here after 6-12 months as an SDR, and you just graduated college! You now perform virtual demonstrations of software to smaller clients, mostly 5 figure deal sizes. You may or may not have to cold call, but you always should, as you'll make more money. If you are averse to cold calling sales is probably not for you anyway. I've seen some $50k-100k compensation plans, but in NYC or SF you should be looking for $60-75k base with $120-150k overall. Don't forget, your "OTE" is dependent on you hitting your quota, or the number that the company designates you to sell. If you miss, you'll probably get fired. If you exceed, you can make over $200k in your early 20's-not bad for liberal arts!

Outside Enterprise sales: You'll sell the same type of software that you were selling on the inside, but just to the largest companies and buyers. Big companies=big budgets=big commissions, but the time it takes to close a deal is much longer: 6-12 months. You might want to get a technical degree, or at least an company-sponsored IT certification to boost your technical cred. Typical base is $90-130k, with $200-300k OTE. Like with inside sales, if you beat your quota, you'll get "accelerators," where the commission rate doubles or triples. This is how guys make $1mm plus selling software. To get this type of job, you'll probably need 3-5 years of pure software sales experience, but you can get it by 26-27 if you do everything right at your previous positions.

Next step: $300-600k Sales director/VP where you'll make more than the average rep, but less than the best ones, and not have as heavy of a grind. You can do this route, which is fairly safe, or you can take a chance with a startup for some "shadow equity" if the company goes to IPO.

If you are reading RVF and cold approach women regularly (I personally do not), then you should have no problem dialing for dollars and advancing your way into a $300k position that is essentially game.

I welcome all questions.
03-31-2017 10:22 AM
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Laner Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
(03-30-2017 08:07 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  
(03-30-2017 12:22 AM)Laner Wrote:  What are typical commission structures like these days?

I need to get some sales guys moving in the next month or two.

Depends on the industry. If you want someone who doesn't suck base + good commission structure + benefits.

Can you break down the commission structure?
03-31-2017 12:39 PM
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qwertyuiop Offline
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RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
(03-31-2017 12:39 PM)Laner Wrote:  
(03-30-2017 08:07 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  
(03-30-2017 12:22 AM)Laner Wrote:  What are typical commission structures like these days?

I need to get some sales guys moving in the next month or two.

Depends on the industry. If you want someone who doesn't suck base + good commission structure + benefits.

Can you break down the commission structure?

What are you selling & what kind of reps do you want? That's a terribly hard question

If you're selling lawn care services Jose might be able to do the job with flyers.

If you're trying to sell enterprise software w/ college degrees you're need to going to pay them a LOT of money.
03-31-2017 11:04 PM
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Ranch Hand Offline
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RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Sales = the ability to PERSUADE someone to depart with their money....

does this have anything in common with Game?, being that:

Game = the ability to PERSUADE women to depart with their.....

The skills (at least the mindset) are transferable and relevant to each other.

By the way, I don't care if you are selling lawn services or software - the principles are the same. You must be able to persuade the counter-party that you are worth their investment. And a $70,000 per year maintenance contract on landscape might even have better margin than a $70k one-time sale on software. And who do you think has better entree to next year's budget? The grass must be cut. The computer can likely last another couple years. Not always as sexy: maybe more dough, maybe less. Let the math tell the story.

Money is a Tool. That's it - a Tool. This Tool allows you to exchange value, ideally between two uninhibited and properly informed parties. Treat it like that, and watch your wealth grow.
04-01-2017 12:03 AM
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Hyperflux Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Any thoughts on technical sales engineering? I'm a new graduate in mechanical engineering (minor in mechatronics). I've had 4 month of field sales experience (D2C, door to door, pure commission), I absolutely killed it and loved it. Made 6k/mo (CAD). I had a 16 month internship as a mechanical engineering intern with a big HVAC company which I found kind of boring. Design work isn't all that interesting.

Anyway, it looks like there's some good opportunities in HVAC for technical sales engineering so I'm wondering if I should pursue that instead of a traditional engineering design role.
04-01-2017 06:37 PM
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RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
(04-01-2017 06:37 PM)Hyperflux Wrote:  Any thoughts on technical sales engineering? I'm a new graduate in mechanical engineering (minor in mechatronics). I've had 4 month of field sales experience (D2C, door to door, pure commission), I absolutely killed it and loved it. Made 6k/mo (CAD). I had a 16 month internship as a mechanical engineering intern with a big HVAC company which I found kind of boring. Design work isn't all that interesting.

Anyway, it looks like there's some good opportunities in HVAC for technical sales engineering so I'm wondering if I should pursue that instead of a traditional engineering design role.

You already know your answer.

(04-01-2017 06:37 PM)Hyperflux Wrote:  I've had 4 month of field sales experience (D2C, door to door, pure commission)

(04-01-2017 06:37 PM)Hyperflux Wrote:  I absolutely killed it

(04-01-2017 06:37 PM)Hyperflux Wrote:  loved it.

(04-01-2017 06:37 PM)Hyperflux Wrote:  Made 6k/mo (CAD).

vs.

(04-01-2017 06:37 PM)Hyperflux Wrote:  ...mechanical engineering...with a big HVAC company ...I found ...boring. Design work isn't...interesting.

With your rare combination of sales skills, passion, and experience + technical ability, you will be able to write your own ticket. This combination rarely occurs in nature and hiring managers, like myself, often must choose between sales ability and technical ability.

At this very early stage of your career, you would be well advised to research all the industries where you might apply your unique combo of skills. Find an industry that you can stick with for the long term AND that has very strong long term growth prospects. Then go grind.

AARP Player's Guide to Market-Based Body Fat Assessment.........................Youth can suck my dick.
04-03-2017 11:43 AM
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Graft Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Wanted to bump this thread for an update.

A while back I didn't have much money to my name and was debating on whether to learn a technical skill to break into the last category-outside enterprise sales.

I was able to break in without learning the technical schools with a lot of luck. My boss liked my high-energy (as he says, gun owner, southern boy, most likely a Trump supporter) and gave me a shot at a market leader for software.

This level is a completely different ballgame.

In inside sales, at a legit company, you see a lot of salaries in the 100's. $120k, $140k, $180k in a great year. In outside sales for the same tech company, everyone is making $200k+. A few of my teammates made seven figures-all of them in their 20's.

This is the best way to make money in your 20's and early 30's

Law, private equity, investment banking, consulting, etc, all have similar pay with the combination of 70+ hour weeks, student debt, horrible work atmosphere, etc. Here you work from home and have uncapped income, so you can make more than what any of those professions make (in 20's and early 30's). The only catch is that if you make partner at a law firm, or a higher up in front office finance, you can make millions per year while it would be almost impossible to get there in tech sales unless you become a CRO or cash out some options. Fine for me, I plan on bouncing abroad once I stack enough cash anyway, and I don't want to grind for 15+ more years.

Work atmosphere is great-I work from home, pretty much make my own hours, schedule meetings with clients and go see them.

I move product in a few ways. I get a lot of demand because my company is well known in the space. I have people working in the office that handle quotes, inbound stuff, guiding a deal along that doesn't need my help. I have teammates that specialize in certain products that get paid on it as well. I have something called "the channel" which is very important in tech sales, it's the network of other companies that sell your product, they have their own reps that work deals for me and get paid on them. I look for leads, demo product, move the deal to the appropriate person.

I got nice "kickers" the commission multipliers when you exceed 100% of plan, that's what takes salespeople over the top. My goal is to spend a year or so more in this and get promoted to selling Fortune 500 accounts, which gives me an outside shot at hitting 7 figs. I'll probably stick with this a few more years, since I want to be able to get another job like this if I go abroad for 3 years or so.

If you don't have great GPA from a top business or law school it's almost impossible to make this kind of cash when you're young unless you start a business that scales rapidly.

I've given a lot of good advice about this, glad to give back to RVF.
04-06-2018 12:14 AM
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qwertyuiop Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
(04-06-2018 12:14 AM)Graft Wrote:  Wanted to bump this thread for an update.

A while back I didn't have much money to my name and was debating on whether to learn a technical skill to break into the last category-outside enterprise sales.

I was able to break in without learning the technical schools with a lot of luck. My boss liked my high-energy (as he says, gun owner, southern boy, most likely a Trump supporter) and gave me a shot at a market leader for software.

This level is a completely different ballgame.

In inside sales, at a legit company, you see a lot of salaries in the 100's. $120k, $140k, $180k in a great year. In outside sales for the same tech company, everyone is making $200k+. A few of my teammates made seven figures-all of them in their 20's.

This is the best way to make money in your 20's and early 30's

Law, private equity, investment banking, consulting, etc, all have similar pay with the combination of 70+ hour weeks, student debt, horrible work atmosphere, etc. Here you work from home and have uncapped income, so you can make more than what any of those professions make (in 20's and early 30's). The only catch is that if you make partner at a law firm, or a higher up in front office finance, you can make millions per year while it would be almost impossible to get there in tech sales unless you become a CRO or cash out some options. Fine for me, I plan on bouncing abroad once I stack enough cash anyway, and I don't want to grind for 15+ more years.

Work atmosphere is great-I work from home, pretty much make my own hours, schedule meetings with clients and go see them.

I move product in a few ways. I get a lot of demand because my company is well known in the space. I have people working in the office that handle quotes, inbound stuff, guiding a deal along that doesn't need my help. I have teammates that specialize in certain products that get paid on it as well. I have something called "the channel" which is very important in tech sales, it's the network of other companies that sell your product, they have their own reps that work deals for me and get paid on them. I look for leads, demo product, move the deal to the appropriate person.

I got nice "kickers" the commission multipliers when you exceed 100% of plan, that's what takes salespeople over the top. My goal is to spend a year or so more in this and get promoted to selling Fortune 500 accounts, which gives me an outside shot at hitting 7 figs. I'll probably stick with this a few more years, since I want to be able to get another job like this if I go abroad for 3 years or so.

If you don't have great GPA from a top business or law school it's almost impossible to make this kind of cash when you're young unless you start a business that scales rapidly.

I've given a lot of good advice about this, glad to give back to RVF.

Where you do make the 7 figures?

I'm inside AE right now and will likely pull 80-130k depending on how I do. It's my second week at this gig so I'm still in the ramp up phase... .but its nice to know where to head.
04-09-2018 07:23 PM
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Graft Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
(04-09-2018 07:23 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  
(04-06-2018 12:14 AM)Graft Wrote:  Wanted to bump this thread for an update.

A while back I didn't have much money to my name and was debating on whether to learn a technical skill to break into the last category-outside enterprise sales.

I was able to break in without learning the technical schools with a lot of luck. My boss liked my high-energy (as he says, gun owner, southern boy, most likely a Trump supporter) and gave me a shot at a market leader for software.

This level is a completely different ballgame.

In inside sales, at a legit company, you see a lot of salaries in the 100's. $120k, $140k, $180k in a great year. In outside sales for the same tech company, everyone is making $200k+. A few of my teammates made seven figures-all of them in their 20's.

This is the best way to make money in your 20's and early 30's

Law, private equity, investment banking, consulting, etc, all have similar pay with the combination of 70+ hour weeks, student debt, horrible work atmosphere, etc. Here you work from home and have uncapped income, so you can make more than what any of those professions make (in 20's and early 30's). The only catch is that if you make partner at a law firm, or a higher up in front office finance, you can make millions per year while it would be almost impossible to get there in tech sales unless you become a CRO or cash out some options. Fine for me, I plan on bouncing abroad once I stack enough cash anyway, and I don't want to grind for 15+ more years.

Work atmosphere is great-I work from home, pretty much make my own hours, schedule meetings with clients and go see them.

I move product in a few ways. I get a lot of demand because my company is well known in the space. I have people working in the office that handle quotes, inbound stuff, guiding a deal along that doesn't need my help. I have teammates that specialize in certain products that get paid on it as well. I have something called "the channel" which is very important in tech sales, it's the network of other companies that sell your product, they have their own reps that work deals for me and get paid on them. I look for leads, demo product, move the deal to the appropriate person.

I got nice "kickers" the commission multipliers when you exceed 100% of plan, that's what takes salespeople over the top. My goal is to spend a year or so more in this and get promoted to selling Fortune 500 accounts, which gives me an outside shot at hitting 7 figs. I'll probably stick with this a few more years, since I want to be able to get another job like this if I go abroad for 3 years or so.

If you don't have great GPA from a top business or law school it's almost impossible to make this kind of cash when you're young unless you start a business that scales rapidly.

I've given a lot of good advice about this, glad to give back to RVF.

Where you do make the 7 figures?

I'm inside AE right now and will likely pull 80-130k depending on how I do. It's my second week at this gig so I'm still in the ramp up phase... .but its nice to know where to head.

You can make seven figures at most mid to large sized tech companies. Check Glassdoor.

The key is the commission once you get to 100% of plan. I've seen comp plans where you get 5% on the first 50%, 8% to 100, and 10% after-no good.

You want to be getting 3-5x commission once you hit a certain level. You'll never hit seven figures unless you get these "multipliers"

Hopefully you are not in SF or NYC, because your OTE should be $120-150 for an inside AE gig in those cities.

You should get an idea of the comp plans for the field AEs in your company. If it's less than $200k average then you should look to have a good year and bounce to an Oracle or Salesforce.
04-10-2018 10:41 PM
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qwertyuiop Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
(04-10-2018 10:41 PM)Graft Wrote:  
(04-09-2018 07:23 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  
(04-06-2018 12:14 AM)Graft Wrote:  Wanted to bump this thread for an update.

A while back I didn't have much money to my name and was debating on whether to learn a technical skill to break into the last category-outside enterprise sales.

I was able to break in without learning the technical schools with a lot of luck. My boss liked my high-energy (as he says, gun owner, southern boy, most likely a Trump supporter) and gave me a shot at a market leader for software.

This level is a completely different ballgame.

In inside sales, at a legit company, you see a lot of salaries in the 100's. $120k, $140k, $180k in a great year. In outside sales for the same tech company, everyone is making $200k+. A few of my teammates made seven figures-all of them in their 20's.

This is the best way to make money in your 20's and early 30's

Law, private equity, investment banking, consulting, etc, all have similar pay with the combination of 70+ hour weeks, student debt, horrible work atmosphere, etc. Here you work from home and have uncapped income, so you can make more than what any of those professions make (in 20's and early 30's). The only catch is that if you make partner at a law firm, or a higher up in front office finance, you can make millions per year while it would be almost impossible to get there in tech sales unless you become a CRO or cash out some options. Fine for me, I plan on bouncing abroad once I stack enough cash anyway, and I don't want to grind for 15+ more years.

Work atmosphere is great-I work from home, pretty much make my own hours, schedule meetings with clients and go see them.

I move product in a few ways. I get a lot of demand because my company is well known in the space. I have people working in the office that handle quotes, inbound stuff, guiding a deal along that doesn't need my help. I have teammates that specialize in certain products that get paid on it as well. I have something called "the channel" which is very important in tech sales, it's the network of other companies that sell your product, they have their own reps that work deals for me and get paid on them. I look for leads, demo product, move the deal to the appropriate person.

I got nice "kickers" the commission multipliers when you exceed 100% of plan, that's what takes salespeople over the top. My goal is to spend a year or so more in this and get promoted to selling Fortune 500 accounts, which gives me an outside shot at hitting 7 figs. I'll probably stick with this a few more years, since I want to be able to get another job like this if I go abroad for 3 years or so.

If you don't have great GPA from a top business or law school it's almost impossible to make this kind of cash when you're young unless you start a business that scales rapidly.

I've given a lot of good advice about this, glad to give back to RVF.

Where you do make the 7 figures?

I'm inside AE right now and will likely pull 80-130k depending on how I do. It's my second week at this gig so I'm still in the ramp up phase... .but its nice to know where to head.

You can make seven figures at most mid to large sized tech companies. Check Glassdoor.

The key is the commission once you get to 100% of plan. I've seen comp plans where you get 5% on the first 50%, 8% to 100, and 10% after-no good.

You want to be getting 3-5x commission once you hit a certain level. You'll never hit seven figures unless you get these "multipliers"

Hopefully you are not in SF or NYC, because your OTE should be $120-150 for an inside AE gig in those cities.

You should get an idea of the comp plans for the field AEs in your company. If it's less than $200k average then you should look to have a good year and bounce to an Oracle or Salesforce.

One of those. I'll keep it vague to protect my privacy.

I was in a 200 calls/day sdr boiler room and wanted out of there asap. This is most likely a stepping stone. I

don't think I have enough experience to be considered for the enterprise field roles quite yet so this is a role to kind of segway to there.

Appreciate the advice though.

Next stop I'll be very thorough... Probably going to do a year or so here.

I don't want to ask for a job but if your company (I have a few guesses) is ever looking for talent on the city you mentioned that's not filled with dudes feel free to let me know.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2018 11:52 AM by qwertyuiop.)
04-11-2018 11:14 AM
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BlastbeatCasanova Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
I've done door to door sales for a good bit. What you said is definitely true, but if a.) the company is reputable, b.) the product is legit and c.) you are with a good team with good leadership, than you can do well. It definitely takes time and drive though, I preformed terribly my first summer but my third go around I made 60K in about 5.5 months. Pretty tight when you grind all summer and then you can travel, fuck around and chase ass with your boys for the rest of the year while everyone else is stuck in their day job. Best year of my life by far. I'm going back out this summer after taking a year off, if it goes well I might type up a data sheet. Can't be a pussy in sales
04-11-2018 07:25 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Thanks for the data, repped.

I'm currently applying for sales jobs right now. Strategy is cast a wide net and filter based on the information from here so I don't waste time on a deadend company. I've already applied to auto dealerships, hospitals, etc. As luck would have it one of my coworkers told me about his main gig which had sales roles in it. Apply yourself to it and make 100K, so stoked on this. I have high hopes for this one company I should hear back from a week from now but I don't sit on my hands so I'm still applying for jobs. All I have is the headaches I have to deal with in my current job to motivate me.

Just from my very limited experience via job searching some places don't pay base so you will need to turn this job into your life until you have some money to stand on. Brownie points would be to find a place that has operations in other states that way you can transfer should you not like the current state you're in.

For the younger guys out there don't worry about the people that complain about rejections and all that. Once you go through making 25Kish your adult life like I have you just say fuck it all and deal with whatever crap your employer throws at you.

Obvious plus side is sales will help game out whether it's LTR or ONS. LOL at blue pilled betas that think it's about "connection."

(09-21-2018 09:31 AM)kosko Wrote:  For the folks who stay ignorant and hating and not improving their situation during these Trump years, it will be bleak and cold once the good times stop.
11-24-2018 05:33 AM
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lunchmoney Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
I will add to this:

My 2nd job out of college was in sales, specifically as a Key Account Manager for a well known consumer brand (think food and beverage). As a Key Account Manager, essentially I was the person who was responsible for the management of sales and relationships with particular customers (B2B). I maintained the company's existing relationships with a client or group of clients, so that they will continue using the company for business, while also expanding the footprint adding new clients. It was a lucrative job, in which I was promoted inside of two years, and left making $120-140K ballpark working about 40-45 hours a week. Entry level you will likely start out in the 70s but if you bust your ass it's a six figure job guaranteed. I know guys who do this for tobacco companies, vaping companies, liquor distributors, etc, and are lifers. They literally paid for their kids college, paid off their homes, wife stays at home etc.
11-24-2018 08:20 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet
Interesting enough... I got into sales. I was doing the oil and gas/construction trades thing, then got picked up to do sales rep job for dealer/importer of the equipment we were using.
Well, they decided to give me a new territory and put me in a roll that is half operation/sales. Which is annoying to more sales guys, because instead of doing excusively revenue building activity about half of my job is process management/creation, and managing/hiring our technical employees. I’m still newish (1-5yrs experience) to sales but my background being a former military officer/tradesmen gave me an advantage because I knew the industry and best practices. I have oil and gas customers but I’m not working for a oil company. I really really like my boss and coworkers but I know you grow and it’s usually best in these rolls to eventually move on. But we will see.
I just wanted to share how I ended up in sales, being that my path wasn’t the norm.

"All My Bitches love me....I love all my bitches,
but its like soon as I cum... I come to my senses."
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2018 10:30 PM by elabayarde.)
11-24-2018 10:24 PM
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