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The Trump China Policy Thread
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #51
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
The 4D chess analysis of the situation is Trump is pressuring China on Trade, the South China Sea, and North Korea.

So we know China is going to be forced to give on at least one of them. The most important issue for America is North Korea, because the costs of a random Nuclear Attack is astronomical. However, the least important issue for China is North Korea, as both the South China Sea and Trade mean $$$. North Korea on the other hand is a poor state that offers nothing to China other than deterrence against a possible US invasion.

China will throw North Korea under the bus if they can keep the South China Sea fort, and not get totally raped by tariffs. I bet you Trump would be happy to take this deal.

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(This post was last modified: 04-04-2017 09:39 PM by Samseau.)
04-04-2017 09:37 PM
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #52
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
^ That would be an absolutely disastrous deal for the US and the rest of Asia, for reasons I've already explained in this thread.

The reason Trump is pushing the "we'll handle North Korea ourselves" option now is because he's not going to let it be used as a bargaining chip by China to justify their illegitimate bases in the South China Sea nor their unbalanced dealings with the US on trade.

China has no right to those islands, nor do they have any right to have unbalanced trade deals with the US. I can't fault them for the latter of course, as they were just negotiating the best terms they could for themselves against our awful bureaucrats, but now it's time to bring that to a stop.
04-05-2017 06:20 AM
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Post: #53
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
Well, NKorea is a trade partner with China. Does that monetary value add up to what the islands have to offer? Maybe not now, but later on the oil down there might. China is going car crazy right now. Roads are crowded with cars in places where it used to be rare to see one 5 years ago.

The Korea issue is not good at all. I'm hearing all kinds of things and chatter. It's ultra tense right now.

If you were the Chinese, even if you did not need Korea for trade (which they don't it was mostly charity trade), you do not wan't the USA to nuke them out of existence and create a colony right on their border. Russia ditto. The problem is that they really can't control NK to any extent whatsoever, without having to kiss his ass.

Maybe in their back pocket they and Russia would have to preempt Trump that in case of a war, they will participate, but they must gain the territory in some % or area.

Before that, they probably will hold on to some emergency diplomats before things get out of control.

I also think the Chinese are at risk of getting nuked by NK. He is going to lash out. Seoul will be flattened, he might try to launch at Japan, which might fail, but he could hit China very easily.

China does not want others to think that is possible, because it makes them appear to have no control or options at the deal table. The reality is that the Korean leader hates them alot for caving in to UN demands and pulling trade. So much so he dismissed their envoys and diplomats. He even made a direct threat to China very recently.

Also lets be honest, a war with NK is not one we could win without a draft, or without nukes. China has the manpower but no one knows if they would nuke without being hit first.

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04-05-2017 04:53 PM
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Post: #54
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-05-2017 06:20 AM)Enigma Wrote:  ^ That would be an absolutely disastrous deal for the US and the rest of Asia, for reasons I've already explained in this thread.

The reason Trump is pushing the "we'll handle North Korea ourselves" option now is because he's not going to let it be used as a bargaining chip by China to justify their illegitimate bases in the South China Sea nor their unbalanced dealings with the US on trade.

China has no right to those islands, nor do they have any right to have unbalanced trade deals with the US. I can't fault them for the latter of course, as they were just negotiating the best terms they could for themselves against our awful bureaucrats, but now it's time to bring that to a stop.

Territorial waters are nothing like land. They are not going to give up that sea. Their future oil supply depends on it as well as commercial fishing. The SEA countries should just quickly make an agreement deal/pact for fishing and forget about oil claims instead of getting into a war, while it is still possible.

Expansions are 9/10 times, about resources. Being big it is possible to push your elbows out and no one will do shit about it. The US did it with Iraq and Afghanistan. The rest of the world did not like it, except for the allies that joined in early to secure a cut themselves (or get expensive toys and trade deals).

China saw that and is going to copy that. They won't land expand, but that sea was theirs historically like certain other things, and they will not let off it.

Honestly, what does the US have to lose if we created a summit to force a deal between SEA and China (as well as access for our ships to pass through certain areas) and see if everyone can buy in to that? We don't need the fishing or the minerals. For us, we need the region and our allies like Japan to not be destabilized.

If we wait too long, China's navy will get so big, they will just cordon off the entire area one day and proclaim the area closed off. The earlier a deal is made, they won't fuck with it later. They have to know that too, but they want the ball to say China on it more so than to just play basketball by themselves.

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04-05-2017 05:03 PM
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Post: #55
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-05-2017 05:03 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Territorial waters are nothing like land. They are not going to give up that sea. Their future oil supply depends on it as well as commercial fishing. The SEA countries should just quickly make an agreement deal/pact for fishing and forget about oil claims instead of getting into a war, while it is still possible.

Expansions are 9/10 times, about resources. Being big it is possible to push your elbows out and no one will do shit about it. The US did it with Iraq and Afghanistan. The rest of the world did not like it, except for the allies that joined in early to secure a cut themselves (or get expensive toys and trade deals).

We're not talking about territorial waters. China is building on actual islands, including the Spratley and Paracel island chains, which are territory of the Philippines and Vietnam respectively.

Not to mention that China has repeatedly challenged the US and other countries when they're in both international waters and the waters of other countries.

There was just a thread posted recently with those US pilots arguing with the Chinese, who were telling them to stop flying over international waters and to "go away now".

Quote:China saw that and is going to copy that. They won't land expand, but that sea was theirs historically like certain other things, and they will not let off it.

They are land expanding. Even if you don't include the existing islands they're building on, they're creating "land" in the middle of the ocean in the form of artificial islands.

The "US did it too" argument does not hold water either. Sure, the US did it too. That doesn't mean we have to let China do it.

No one is saying they're evil. But there's going to be push back against their expansion, just like there was a few decades ago when the US and China fought proxy wars in Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc.

Quote:Honestly, what does the US have to lose if we created a summit to force a deal between SEA and China (as well as access for our ships to pass through certain areas) and see if everyone can buy in to that? We don't need the fishing or the minerals. For us, we need the region and our allies like Japan to not be destabilized.


What does the US have to lose? Control of the entire region. There's a reason that China wants those military bases so badly. And once they have control, there's no guarantee that they're going to give the US and the world access to certain regions.

And here's a reason that despite their imperialist past, most countries in Asia would rather deal with the US than China. It's because China -- and many communist countries, in general -- are not exactly known for holding up deals and bargains once they get what they want.

Also, this isn't all about "us", as in America.

The Philippines and Vietnam, for instance, DO need that fishing, and they could definitely use any minerals or oil that's there. There are people in those countries that have literally relied on the fishing in those regions for survival for generations.

Quote:If we wait too long, China's navy will get so big, they will just cordon off the entire area one day and proclaim the area closed off. The earlier a deal is made, they won't fuck with it later. They have to know that too, but they want the ball to say China on it more so than to just play basketball by themselves.

The entire reason China wants those islands is it allows them to project power throughout the entire region and strike both the US and US allies.

It's not coincidence that the countries they're feuding with over islands are Philippines (US bases), Japan (US bases), Vietnam (US soft ally). And of course, NK is their buffer against the US in SK.

Also, the "China's navy/military getting so big" narrative has been debunked time and again. China has 1 carrier. The US has, what, 18?

And China's carrier is a hand-me-down from Russia.

Their most advanced aircraft are based on stolen US designs. And they're not even operational yet.

People talk about military technology as if you just go up to Best Buy and buy the best flat screen. It doesn't work like that. The US (and Israel) have been developing the best tech for 50+ years.

China isn't just going to waltz in with their inflated GDP and suddenly compete on the US' level. Especially if Trump does a portion of what he promises in terms of eliminating military waste and inefficiency.

China's entire strategy is not to compete with the US directly but to keep the US from attacking them directly, while giving them the capability to hit the US anywhere in the region. That's where these islands come in, because they're like stationary carriers that allow China to attack and defend from everywhere the US has bases.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2017 03:53 AM by Enigma.)
04-06-2017 03:38 AM
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Post: #56
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-05-2017 04:53 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  If you were the Chinese, even if you did not need Korea for trade (which they don't it was mostly charity trade), you do not wan't the USA to nuke them out of existence and create a colony right on their border. Russia ditto. The problem is that they really can't control NK to any extent whatsoever, without having to kiss his ass.

100% agreed.

No one is faulting China for trying to protect their borders. But the North Korea situation is coming to a tipping point, where it looks like their decades of bluster may finally culminate in a real nuclear attack.

As you pointed out, China is not above this threat, and it's not exactly good for them or for trade if South Korea, Japan, etc. get nuked, not only because of the direct consequences but the chaos that it will create in the region.

Is having that buffer against the US worth getting nuked by NK?

If you remember, it was Communist Vietnam that eventually invaded and overthrew Communist Cambodia when they became too much of a nuisance to deal with.

And while we can't fault China for trying to protect their borders, you can't blame other countries in the region for not wanting to live under constant threat of being nuked by the unpredictable madmen in NK.
04-06-2017 03:47 AM
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Post: #57
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
While I see the wisdom in TK's thoughts, I don't know if we can trust them to stick to treaties long term. I cannot see the Chinese refraining from doing anything they can get away with doing.

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04-06-2017 04:03 AM
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Post: #58
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
I'm with Enigma and Suits on this. The Chinese will say one thing, get what they want, and then turn around and say "fuck all that other shit you asked us to do, we already got what we want! Shove it."

American businesses regularly came here, kowtowed to the chinese to "get in on the market" only to get blown out later when it came time for Chinese businesses to honor their side of the deal.

They do not respect that shit.

They've been doing that to foreign businessmen since times immemorial and I doubt they'd hesitate to do it if they found themselves in a position to get away with it on an international scale. I'm not saying that they're going to do something evil or that they're bad people but they do not have a culture of honoring agreements with outsiders.

At best, any agreement you may have with the Chinese is something they "intend" to honor but if they can get what they want without honoring it they will do that. We are outsiders, and that extends to our nations and our interests. Working together with China is always a tenuous proposition.

I don't really see how USA can just cut losses and let china have vietnamese and Philipine's waterways without a lot of fall out.



Sure we colonized our neighbors, but that doesn't mean we have to let china do the same.

Also, I don't buy the "BUT IT WAS OURS 202340243424 YEARS AGO" nonsense. China threw a fucking hizzy fit when the international court ruled their encroachment on those waters as unlawful and not backed up by any actual history. China's reply was classic as well. I just point that out because they are not trying to play fair so why should we?

There is a reason they are a totalitarian state.

I'm not hating, but that is just how it is out here.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2017 04:21 AM by Fortis.)
04-06-2017 04:19 AM
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Post: #59
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
The one, overriding motivator the Chinese have, and have always had, is stability. They are more-or-less like Europe in ethnic makeup (Chinese is a written language, not a spoken one.). So they are always on guard to anyone, or anything, that upsets the status quo. They know, as does anyone versed in state-craft, that they are always closer to the brink of total chaos and social break-down than they like to admit. They only resort to conflict when it is necessary to maintain things. Either internally, or externally. (Tiananmen Square in 1989 is a good example of this.)

Like most things in our world, the Chinese, and how one deals with them, is not an exact science. It's not a black and white situation but VERY complex one. Not a simple situation to the current state of affairs, but not an impossible one either.
04-06-2017 06:46 AM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #60
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-06-2017 04:19 AM)Fortis Wrote:  I'm with Enigma and Suits on this. The Chinese will say one thing, get what they want, and then turn around and say "fuck all that other shit you asked us to do, we already got what we want! Shove it."

American businesses regularly came here, kowtowed to the chinese to "get in on the market" only to get blown out later when it came time for Chinese businesses to honor their side of the deal.

This is the reason the Chinese are always compared to a certain other (((group))) people know and love.

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04-06-2017 12:59 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
All I know is I'm rooting for the Chinese, Koreans, Japs, Russians whoever when it comes to dealing with the US/West.

The Chinese probably have the same view of the US as being a backstabbing partner (and rightly so).
04-06-2017 01:52 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-06-2017 01:52 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  All I know is I'm rooting for the Chinese, Koreans, Japs, Russians whoever when it comes to dealing with the US/West.

The Chinese probably have the same view of the US as being a backstabbing partner (and rightly so).

Yep, the West is evil, right?

Where do you think all this leftist bullshit in the modern US comes from in the first place? Not the West.

The last time China and the US fought proxy wars in Asia, the non-Western forces managed to kill about 50+ million civilians (that's not even including the USSR) -- including some of the worst atrocities in history -- whether from just starving to death or being outright slaughtered.

Tens of millions dead from famine and untold more millions slaughtered in the PRC, 25% of Cambodia's population gone, an estimated million or more dead from famine in North Korea, etc.

The one country the US managed to directly protect from invasion, South Korea, exploded economically almost immediately after the Korean War, far surpassing the growth of its neighbors to become one of the most prosperous countries in the world.

The other US ally at the time that didn't fall to communism, Thailand, now boasts one of the lowest poverty rates in the world, and while it has its problems, is much better off economically than most of its communist or former communist neighbors.

Meanwhile countries like Laos and Cambodia continue to mire in destitution, while Vietnam is not much better off. Oh, and let's not forget the 300+ million Chinese that live on about $2 to $3 or less a day.

Going back to Samseau's comparison of the Chinese to the Jews, most people are aware of the Jewish influence in Western media but are completely blind to the pro-Chinese bent.

If you'll notice, most of the posters who have spent significant time in Asia and/or China have a much different perspective on these matters than the posters who only know of China and Asia from what they're told in Western media.
04-06-2017 03:25 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
Enigma, I'm with you for the most part and no I don't think the West is evil (just as treacherous as the Chinese perhaps). I just don't think there any innocent actors.

You mentioned the misery of Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. Do you think that might have anything to do with those countries being bombed to smithereens during the 60s and 70s?
04-06-2017 05:27 PM
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Post: #64
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-06-2017 03:25 PM)Enigma Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 01:52 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  All I know is I'm rooting for the Chinese, Koreans, Japs, Russians whoever when it comes to dealing with the US/West.

The Chinese probably have the same view of the US as being a backstabbing partner (and rightly so).

Yep, the West is evil, right?

Where do you think all this leftist bullshit in the modern US comes from in the first place? Not the West.

The last time China and the US fought proxy wars in Asia, the non-Western forces managed to kill about 50+ million civilians (that's not even including the USSR) -- including some of the worst atrocities in history -- whether from just starving to death or being outright slaughtered.

Tens of millions dead from famine and untold more millions slaughtered in the PRC, 25% of Cambodia's population gone, an estimated million or more dead from famine in North Korea, etc.

The one country the US managed to directly protect from invasion, South Korea, exploded economically almost immediately after the Korean War, far surpassing the growth of its neighbors to become one of the most prosperous countries in the world.

The other US ally at the time that didn't fall to communism, Thailand, now boasts one of the lowest poverty rates in the world, and while it has its problems, is much better off economically than most of its communist or former communist neighbors.

Meanwhile countries like Laos and Cambodia continue to mire in destitution, while Vietnam is not much better off. Oh, and let's not forget the 300+ million Chinese that live on about $2 to $3 or less a day.

Going back to Samseau's comparison of the Chinese to the Jews, most people are aware of the Jewish influence in Western media but are completely blind to the pro-Chinese bent.

If you'll notice, most of the posters who have spent significant time in Asia and/or China have a much different perspective on these matters than the posters who only know of China and Asia from what they're told in Western media.

There is truth to the whole Asian ant people meme. I agree many people on the forum over glorify the orient. China's economy really could collapse due to health related environmental issues. Either way ,the developing parts of Asia will get old before they get rich. China has one of the highest TFR's in East Asia ,yet even with it's "one child" policy they are behind much of western Europe. It's also not just Trump who's complaining about monkey business in China,the EU has been pursuing aggressively anti dumping measures with their steel industry.


Anyways it's another reason/reminder why libertarianism is retarded, people don't deserve to die at their desks from overwork.
04-09-2017 09:10 AM
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Post: #65
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-04-2017 09:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  The 4D chess analysis of the situation is Trump is pressuring China on Trade, the South China Sea, and North Korea.

So we know China is going to be forced to give on at least one of them. The most important issue for America is North Korea, because the costs of a random Nuclear Attack is astronomical. However, the least important issue for China is North Korea, as both the South China Sea and Trade mean $$$. North Korea on the other hand is a poor state that offers nothing to China other than deterrence against a possible US invasion.

China will throw North Korea under the bus if they can keep the South China Sea fort, and not get totally raped by tariffs. I bet you Trump would be happy to take this deal.

Whats the cost of a single salvo from NK into SK?

What is the cost of killing Kim and his regime? Suppressing the revolt of millions of slaves who will be just like the Japanese were in WWII.

What will the cost be to South Korea as the humanitarian black hole opens up before them?
04-09-2017 09:18 AM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-06-2017 03:25 PM)Enigma Wrote:  Meanwhile countries like Laos and Cambodia continue to mire in destitution, while Vietnam is not much better off. Oh, and let's not forget the 300+ million Chinese that live on about $2 to $3 or less a day.

Going back to Samseau's comparison of the Chinese to the Jews, most people are aware of the Jewish influence in Western media but are completely blind to the pro-Chinese bent.

If you'll notice, most of the posters who have spent significant time in Asia and/or China have a much different perspective on these matters than the posters who only know of China and Asia from what they're told in Western media.

Very true. It's tightly controlled. For instance I only found about the "mass group incidents" that happen in China recently:

Quote:The number of annual protests has grown steadily since the early 1990s, from approximately 8700 “mass group incidents” in 1993[1] to over 87,000 in 2005.[2] In 2006, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences estimated the number of annual mass incidents to exceed 90,000, and Chinese sociology professor Sun Liping estimated 180,000 incidents in 2010

180,000!!
04-09-2017 09:25 AM
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Post: #67
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
I don't think guys fully appreciate what Chinese world dominance would mean for them if they are not a Chinese national. It would be AWFUL for you. Great for the chinese but fucking terrible for anyone who is not Chinese or not willing to totally kowtow to the Chinese.

Imagine a nation of functional autists ruling the world and that's what rule by China would be like. No other country throws a hissy fit when things don't go their way but China does.

You guys REALLY don't want China to rule the world. You really, really don't.

Like I've said, I love living here but I'd be praying for all of you if China took over the world and could truly bully the west nations.

The collapse of the west will not be some scenario where you can fly to Russia and bang 9s for the rest of your life. tard

You know how angry you guys get about refugees in the West?

China wouldn't be having any of that shit. China is for the Chinese.

You'd be about as welcome as a Japanese person. And good luck getting Chinese or Russian citizenship.

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(This post was last modified: 04-10-2017 07:35 PM by Fortis.)
04-10-2017 07:34 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-10-2017 07:34 PM)Fortis Wrote:  You know how angry you guys get about refugees in the West?

China wouldn't be having any of that shit. China is for the Chinese.

Agreed

China actively seeks out and returns refugees for punishment in North Korea.

Here's an article from the NYT's on the subject.

Quote: SEOUL, South Korea — FOR years, thousands of North Koreans have been sneaking across the border into China to escape oppression. The Chinese authorities routinely hunt down defectors and return them to North Korea, where they face torture, forced labor, life in a prison camp or even public execution.

This past year much has been written about the people fleeing the Middle East for Europe. The world should also pay attention to the North Korean refugee crisis, and to the desperation that drives it. North Koreans are forced to work at state jobs in a moribund economy. Countless parents watch their children go to bed hungry. Many North Korean families feel they have no option but to try to escape.

In 1997, I defected as a naïve 17-year-old girl who simply wanted to explore the world. I was fortunate to live on the border with China and could pick up Chinese TV channels, which opened my eyes. I stole into China, where I remained in hiding for more than 10 years, and eventually found my way to South Korea.

As many as 200,000 defectors are living secretly in China. The Chinese government considers them illegal immigrants — even though they are refugees. As a signatory to the United Nations convention on refugees, China is obligated to not repatriate them, yet it cooperates with North Korea to find defectors and even pays its citizens for turning them in.

Continue reading the main story
This led to a terrifying incident during my time in China. Plainclothes officers arrested me after someone revealed my identity. But since I had quickly learned Chinese, I was able to convince the police that I was a Korean-Chinese citizen. After a few tense hours, they let me go.

I am one of the lucky North Koreans who made it out of China. North Korean defectors in the country are terrified of trying to leave because they are often caught at the borders as they attempt to cross into Mongolia or Laos.

Defectors have to pay brokers to guide them out of China, and they are relatively expensive, sometimes untrustworthy and not easy to find. Reaching Mongolia usually requires several bus rides and then a long journey through the Gobi Desert on foot, while crossing into Laos is a much longer trip, with a high risk of capture by Chinese or Laotian authorities.

I eventually managed to buy a fake Chinese passport and flew to South Korea in 2008, something few defectors are able to do. The next year, after establishing contact with my family in North Korea through a cellphone I had sent them, I returned to China using my new South Korean passport to guide my mom and brother on a 2,000-mile journey from North Korea to Laos, and eventually to freedom in South Korea.

Even though some heartless North Korean, Korean-Chinese and Chinese citizens have exploited vulnerable defectors for money, I witnessed many acts of kindness by the Chinese.

On a bus ride through China, my family and I had talked for hours before a police officer boarded to conduct an inspection. My mother and brother couldn’t speak Chinese, so they pretended to be deaf and mute, and none of the Chinese passengers said anything, sparing us.

In addition to helping North Korea find defectors, the Chinese government gives the regime fuel, technology, economic assistance and political support, but receives little in return.

The only rationale for China’s policy of repatriating defectors is that allowing them to stay would prompt a huge wave of North Koreans into China — creating what the government calls “chaos.” This exaggeration is widely accepted, even though the reality is that most North Koreans cannot even dream of reaching the border because travel is so tightly restricted, and most points on the border are heavily guarded.

Besides, most defectors simply want to pass through China and start a new life in South Korea or another country that will provide them with legal protection. There are about 29,000 defectors in South Korea, which is constitutionally required to accept all North Koreans. Other countries could share some of the burden as well.

In China, the defectors have no rights and cannot legally find jobs, so they must scrape by on the margins of society — which is still less risky than trying to get out of China. Hundreds of thousands of North Koreans should not be forced to live like this. They should be allowed to leave China safely.

China should repeal its policy on repatriating defectors and distance itself from such a brutal regime. This would send a positive message to the international community and a stern warning to North Korea that liberalization and other domestic reforms are needed to resolve the refugee crisis.

In the way that many Europeans want to turn away the migrants landing on their shores, some Chinese people argue that their country is simply not obligated to help defectors. That’s a morally dubious position, and, more important, China does not have to prop up the North Korean regime.

In the 1960s, during the chaotic years of famine and the Cultural Revolution in China, many Chinese people sought refuge in North Korea. Beginning in the late 1990s, the situation was reversed, and North Koreans have been fleeing their oppressive government ever since. The Chinese authorities should remember the hospitality their compatriots received in North Korea and treat desperate escapees with dignity and respect.

If you don't trust the [failing] New York Times, then here is a academic journal article on China's cruelty http://theyonseijournal.com/wp-content/u...-chung.pdf

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04-10-2017 08:15 PM
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Rocha Offline
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-06-2017 03:25 PM)Enigma Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 01:52 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  All I know is I'm rooting for the Chinese, Koreans, Japs, Russians whoever when it comes to dealing with the US/West.

The Chinese probably have the same view of the US as being a backstabbing partner (and rightly so).

Yep, the West is evil, right?

Where do you think all this leftist bullshit in the modern US comes from in the first place? Not the West.

Oh no?

Let me see from where do I start then:

Thomas More (UK)
Henri de Saint-Simon (France)
Karl Marx (Germany)
Friedrich Engels (Germany)
Simone de Beauvoir (France)
Jean-Paul Sartre (France)
Karl Popper (Germany/UK)
Charles Fourier (France)
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (France)
Robert Owen (UK)
Rosa Luxemburg (Germany)
Salvador Allende (Chile)
Olof Palme (Sweden)
....

I am quite sure the teachings of the Eastern counterparts like Lenin, Stalin or Mao are not praised in nowadays Universities, unlike all of the above.

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(This post was last modified: 04-10-2017 09:57 PM by Rocha.)
04-10-2017 09:52 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-10-2017 07:34 PM)Fortis Wrote:  And good luck getting Chinese or Russian citizenship.

That is only a language test away for me in case I ever need it.
04-10-2017 09:52 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-10-2017 09:52 PM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  
(04-10-2017 07:34 PM)Fortis Wrote:  And good luck getting Chinese or Russian citizenship.

That is only a language test away for me in case I ever need it.

I think he's talking about a potential future scenario where the West meltdown down and refugees from the US, Canada, UK, etc were attempting to flee to Russia and China to start a new life.

China doesn't currently allow legitimate (permanent) immigration and you can be sure that Russia would make it's requirements much more challenging if it was faced with a high influx of refugees/asylum seekers/economic immigrants.

Just because you can currently acquire Russian citizenship by simply passing a language test doesn't mean that you or others will be able to do so in the future.

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04-10-2017 10:11 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
^ Exactly. China recently had a massive influx of english teachers, within 8 months of my arrival visa restricts for english teachers got WAYYY more strict. They do not fuck around with immigration of any kind, so if the west did meltdown I'd be fucked.

As for Russia, I dno't know much about that place, but I doubt they'd be all that hospitable to an influx of millions of whites from the West who want to take women and jobs. Just a hunch.
04-10-2017 11:20 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
A wise move then might be to preemptively acquire Russian or Taiwanese citizenship.

The problem is, if you are under 27 in Russia or under 36 in Taiwan, you'd have to serve in the military.

Dual nationality is possible, but you'd have to show that you “are high-level professionals in the technological, economic, educational, cultural, art, sports, or other domains who have been recommended by the central competent authority.”

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/ar...2003667366

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04-10-2017 11:51 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-10-2017 11:51 PM)Transsimian Wrote:  A wise move then might be to preemptively acquire Russian or Taiwanese citizenship.

The problem is, if you are under 27 in Russia or under 36 in Taiwan, you'd have to serve in the military.

Dual nationality is possible, but you'd have to show that you “are high-level professionals in the technological, economic, educational, cultural, art, sports, or other domains who have been recommended by the central competent authority.”

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/ar...2003667366

The happy medium would be getting permanent residency in Taiwan and leaving it at that. No military service requirement, no need to give up your birth citizenship, and permanent right of abode for life.

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04-11-2017 12:59 AM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-11-2017 12:59 AM)Suits Wrote:  The happy medium would be getting permanent residency in Taiwan and leaving it at that. No military service requirement, no need to give up your birth citizenship, and permanent right of abode for life.



But the "Permanent" ARC expires if you don't remain in Taiwan for at least 6 months each year.

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04-11-2017 01:35 AM
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