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The Trump China Policy Thread
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #76
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-10-2017 09:52 PM)Rocha Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 03:25 PM)Enigma Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 01:52 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  All I know is I'm rooting for the Chinese, Koreans, Japs, Russians whoever when it comes to dealing with the US/West.

The Chinese probably have the same view of the US as being a backstabbing partner (and rightly so).

Yep, the West is evil, right?

Where do you think all this leftist bullshit in the modern US comes from in the first place? Not the West.

Oh no?

Let me see from where do I start then:

Thomas More (UK)
Henri de Saint-Simon (France)
Karl Marx (Germany)
Friedrich Engels (Germany)
Simone de Beauvoir (France)
Jean-Paul Sartre (France)
Karl Popper (Germany/UK)
Charles Fourier (France)
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (France)
Robert Owen (UK)
Rosa Luxemburg (Germany)
Salvador Allende (Chile)
Olof Palme (Sweden)
....

I am quite sure the teachings of the Eastern counterparts like Lenin, Stalin or Mao are not praised in nowadays Universities, unlike all of the above.

Yes, nice job purposely taking a couple sentences totally out of context.

This is a thread and a discussion about global politics. Here's a map of all the former and current socialist and communist countries.

[Image: 1280px-Socialist_states_by_duration.png]

Notice anything?

There may have been thinkers from the West who espoused communist ideals, but it was the non-Western countries that gave these ideas POLITICAL power, which is what we're talking about in this thread.

If those ideas had stayed in the West, they would have died. It took decades of subversion, propaganda, and immigration for those ideas to even begin taking hold in the US.
04-11-2017 07:48 AM
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #77
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-06-2017 05:27 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Enigma, I'm with you for the most part and no I don't think the West is evil (just as treacherous as the Chinese perhaps). I just don't think there any innocent actors.

You mentioned the misery of Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. Do you think that might have anything to do with those countries being bombed to smithereens during the 60s and 70s?

Every country is bombed when it's at war, including South Korea, which as I mentioned was rebuilt stronger than ever.

On the other hand, Cambodia's worst problems came after the war, when the China/N. Viet.-backed Khmer Rouge took power and proceeded to loot the country, destroy its infrastructure, and kill 25% of the population, with an emphasis on the educated.

I'm not saying the US is "innocent", by any means, I'm just putting events in their proper perspective.
04-11-2017 08:06 AM
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Rocha Offline
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Post: #78
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
deleted.

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(This post was last modified: 04-11-2017 08:40 AM by Rocha.)
04-11-2017 08:21 AM
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Rocha Offline
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Post: #79
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-11-2017 08:21 AM)Rocha Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 07:48 AM)Enigma Wrote:  
(04-10-2017 09:52 PM)Rocha Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 03:25 PM)Enigma Wrote:  [quote='TigerMandingo' pid='1543792' dateline='1491504756']
All I know is I'm rooting for the Chinese, Koreans, Japs, Russians whoever when it comes to dealing with the US/West.

The Chinese probably have the same view of the US as being a backstabbing partner (and rightly so).

Yep, the West is evil, right?

Where do you think all this leftist bullshit in the modern US comes from in the first place? Not the West.

Oh no?

Let me see from where do I start then:

Thomas More (UK)
Henri de Saint-Simon (France)
Karl Marx (Germany)
Friedrich Engels (Germany)
Simone de Beauvoir (France)
Jean-Paul Sartre (France)
Karl Popper (Germany/UK)
Charles Fourier (France)
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (France)
Robert Owen (UK)
Rosa Luxemburg (Germany)
Salvador Allende (Chile)
Olof Palme (Sweden)
....

I am quite sure the teachings of the Eastern counterparts like Lenin, Stalin or Mao are not praised in nowadays Universities, unlike all of the above.

Yes, nice job purposely taking a couple sentences totally out of context.

This is a thread and a discussion about global politics. Here's a map of all the former and current socialist and communist countries.

[Image: 1280px-Socialist_states_by_duration.png]

Notice anything?

There may have been thinkers from the West who espoused communist ideals, but it was the non-Western countries that gave these ideas POLITICAL power, which is what we're talking about in this thread.

If those ideas had stayed in the West, they would have died. It took decades of subversion, propaganda, and immigration for those ideas to even begin taking hold in the US.

You clearly state that leftist ideals entered the West or the US via Eastern subversion propaganda and immigration. Perhaps a big KGB, Stasi or Chinese grand scheme to collapse and influence the west (where have I heard this lately...). Of course many things happened in the cold war, culminating with the dismantling and subsequent plunder of the USSR...

But no, you have to go back (Not in the Trump sense of the expression), and check out the history and present. Socialism and communism was founded by Western thinkers on the top o their high castles, and while its principles can be considered noble in their begginings, considering the poor life conditions of the working classes during the Industrial Revolutions, the initial aim was to provide better conditions to everyone, they started to fail on assuming that all human beings are equal.

Well, due to the even worst life conditions of the peasantry in Russia and China, those leftist thoughts proliferated and where victorious in both bloody civil wars on those coutries wich by accident or not are the biggest on earth, they where defeated in many others civil wars like in Germany or Spain.

Nowadays, tell us where is the PC culture or SJWing in Russia or China? Certainly not.

Tell us who are the most socialist countries in the world? Certainly not Russia or China, possibly Canada, Sweden, Norway, Denmark...they are all located in the West, the birth of socialism and communism.

And most importantly, who are the thinkers and philosofers generally thaught and praised in Western colleges? Certainly is not Ho-Chi-Min, possibly more along the ones I have cited.

I am a firm believer that what is wrong with the West and the US comes firmly from inside and not outside, and if someone accepts a trojan horse inside their house who is to blame for that?

Cant blame the East for Western faults, never in any communist nation like Soviet Union, Cuba, Yugoslavia, China or Vietnam things like pedophilia, homosexuality, sluttiness in women or even obesity where pushed, praised or even accepted, quite the contrary, the propaganda was in the sense lf pushing for virtue and physical development. The West is taking degeneracy to a whole new level.

And by the way, that map is not correct, Portugal was never a communist country, and another example is Chile who is not marked as having been communist.

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(This post was last modified: 04-11-2017 08:32 AM by Rocha.)
04-11-2017 08:32 AM
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #80
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-11-2017 08:32 AM)Rocha Wrote:  But no, you have to go back (Not in the Trump sense of the expression), and check out the history and present. Socialism and communism was founded by Western thinkers on the top o their high castles, and while its principles can be considered noble in their begginings, considering the poor life conditions of the working classes during the Industrial Revolutions, the initial aim was to provide better conditions to everyone, they started to fail on assuming that all human beings are equal.

Well, due to the even worst life conditions of the peasantry in Russia and China, those leftist thoughts proliferated and where victorious in both bloody civil wars on those coutries wich by accident or not are the biggest on earth, they where defeated in many others civil wars like in Germany or Spain.

Yes, so the ideas behind communism were created by the West but only gained political power in the East, where they were incubated and spread, which is what I just said.

I am not BLAMING the "East" for anything.

My point was in reference to TigerMandingo's comment that he was rooting for every anti-US/West government, when in fact many of those governments are or were leftist shitholes.

You're derailing a thread about China to argue about something out of context.

Quote:Nowadays, tell us where is the PC culture or SJWing in Russia or China? Certainly not.

Sure, they just threw you in jail or killed your family if you criticized communism.

And they didn't have fat chicks, of course, because significant portions of their population were starving.
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04-11-2017 08:49 AM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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Post: #81
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-11-2017 08:06 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Every country is bombed when it's at war, including South Korea, which as I mentioned was rebuilt stronger than ever.

On the other hand, Cambodia's worst problems came after the war, when the China/N. Viet.-backed Khmer Rouge took power and proceeded to loot the country, destroy its infrastructure, and kill 25% of the population, with an emphasis on the educated.

Cambodia's worst problems came when they were carpet bombed mercilessly for no reason whatsoever. The rise of the Khmer Rouge can be compared to the rise of ISIS, both being born out of the misery and suffering inflicted on their respective lands.
04-11-2017 11:44 PM
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #82
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-11-2017 11:44 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 08:06 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Every country is bombed when it's at war, including South Korea, which as I mentioned was rebuilt stronger than ever.

On the other hand, Cambodia's worst problems came after the war, when the China/N. Viet.-backed Khmer Rouge took power and proceeded to loot the country, destroy its infrastructure, and kill 25% of the population, with an emphasis on the educated.

Cambodia's worst problems came when they were carpet bombed mercilessly for no reason whatsoever. The rise of the Khmer Rouge can be compared to the rise of ISIS, both being born out of the misery and suffering inflicted on their respective lands.

Dude, there was a communist insurgency in Cambodia years before the US' main bombing campaign there. Hell, there was even an ANTI-COMMUNIST movement, the Khmer Serei, operating as far back as the 50s, in response to both the communists and the left-leaning stance of King Sihanouk.

This is easily verifiable with even a cursory amount of research.
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04-12-2017 07:28 AM
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Post: #83
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-11-2017 08:06 AM)Enigma Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 05:27 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Enigma, I'm with you for the most part and no I don't think the West is evil (just as treacherous as the Chinese perhaps). I just don't think there any innocent actors.

You mentioned the misery of Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. Do you think that might have anything to do with those countries being bombed to smithereens during the 60s and 70s?

Every country is bombed when it's at war, including South Korea, which as I mentioned was rebuilt stronger than ever.

On the other hand, Cambodia's worst problems came after the war, when the China/N. Viet.-backed Khmer Rouge took power and proceeded to loot the country, destroy its infrastructure, and kill 25% of the population, with an emphasis on the educated.

I'm not saying the US is "innocent", by any means, I'm just putting events in their proper perspective.

"Every country is bombed when it's at war, including South Korea, which as I mentioned was rebuilt stronger than ever"

So, when was the US bombed during the Indochina wars - or any war? Guess that doesn't count eh?

Or maybe you're saying the US should be bombed - so that it can be rebuilt 'stronger than ever'.

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04-12-2017 08:04 AM
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Lunostrelki Offline
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Post: #84
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-12-2017 07:28 AM)Enigma Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 11:44 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 08:06 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Every country is bombed when it's at war, including South Korea, which as I mentioned was rebuilt stronger than ever.

On the other hand, Cambodia's worst problems came after the war, when the China/N. Viet.-backed Khmer Rouge took power and proceeded to loot the country, destroy its infrastructure, and kill 25% of the population, with an emphasis on the educated.

Cambodia's worst problems came when they were carpet bombed mercilessly for no reason whatsoever. The rise of the Khmer Rouge can be compared to the rise of ISIS, both being born out of the misery and suffering inflicted on their respective lands.

Dude, there was a communist insurgency in Cambodia years before the US' main bombing campaign there. Hell, there was even an ANTI-COMMUNIST movement, the Khmer Serei, operating as far back as the 50s, in response to both the communists and the left-leaning stance of King Sihanouk.

This is easily verifiable with even a cursory amount of research.
yeah—I always thought the "being carpet-bombed led to Pol Pot" line of thinking was bollocks. If it were that easy to destabilize a regime why didn't Britain and China succumb after the Axis bombed London and Chongqing?
04-12-2017 08:09 AM
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Suits Offline
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Post: #85
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-12-2017 08:09 AM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 07:28 AM)Enigma Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 11:44 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 08:06 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Every country is bombed when it's at war, including South Korea, which as I mentioned was rebuilt stronger than ever.

On the other hand, Cambodia's worst problems came after the war, when the China/N. Viet.-backed Khmer Rouge took power and proceeded to loot the country, destroy its infrastructure, and kill 25% of the population, with an emphasis on the educated.

Cambodia's worst problems came when they were carpet bombed mercilessly for no reason whatsoever. The rise of the Khmer Rouge can be compared to the rise of ISIS, both being born out of the misery and suffering inflicted on their respective lands.

Dude, there was a communist insurgency in Cambodia years before the US' main bombing campaign there. Hell, there was even an ANTI-COMMUNIST movement, the Khmer Serei, operating as far back as the 50s, in response to both the communists and the left-leaning stance of King Sihanouk.

This is easily verifiable with even a cursory amount of research.
yeah—I always thought the "being carpet-bombed led to Pol Pot" line of thinking was bollocks. If it were that easy to destabilize a regime why didn't Britain and China succumb after the Axis bombed London and Chongqing?

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04-12-2017 08:11 AM
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Arado Offline
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Post: #86
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
Why would the globalists and communists support China's rise? The Chinese are much less willing to buy into the SJW propaganda than Western countries.
04-12-2017 09:57 AM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
There's a theory that globalists also control China, but honestly I don't see it.

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04-12-2017 11:06 AM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
China is definitely not controlled by globalists, but its goals are (or were until recently) in line with them at least insofar as its strategy for the west is concerned.

(04-12-2017 08:11 AM)Suits Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 08:09 AM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 07:28 AM)Enigma Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 11:44 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 08:06 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Every country is bombed when it's at war, including South Korea, which as I mentioned was rebuilt stronger than ever.

On the other hand, Cambodia's worst problems came after the war, when the China/N. Viet.-backed Khmer Rouge took power and proceeded to loot the country, destroy its infrastructure, and kill 25% of the population, with an emphasis on the educated.

Cambodia's worst problems came when they were carpet bombed mercilessly for no reason whatsoever. The rise of the Khmer Rouge can be compared to the rise of ISIS, both being born out of the misery and suffering inflicted on their respective lands.

Dude, there was a communist insurgency in Cambodia years before the US' main bombing campaign there. Hell, there was even an ANTI-COMMUNIST movement, the Khmer Serei, operating as far back as the 50s, in response to both the communists and the left-leaning stance of King Sihanouk.

This is easily verifiable with even a cursory amount of research.
yeah—I always thought the "being carpet-bombed led to Pol Pot" line of thinking was bollocks. If it were that easy to destabilize a regime why didn't Britain and China succumb after the Axis bombed London and Chongqing?

[Image: _82199235_6a87e126-dc25-4887-bece-3a328b05b591.jpg]
Point is it took a lot more than some Japanese bombers to mess up the Nationalists. Try 3 million military casualties over an 8 year war instead.
04-12-2017 12:09 PM
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Post: #89
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-12-2017 08:04 AM)rockoman Wrote:  So, when was the US bombed during the Indochina wars - or any war? Guess that doesn't count eh?

Or maybe you're saying the US should be bombed - so that it can be rebuilt 'stronger than ever'.

The US never gets bombed, but when it does it's "Never Forget!" and launches a crusade against the entire world Laugh
04-12-2017 12:25 PM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-12-2017 12:25 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 08:04 AM)rockoman Wrote:  So, when was the US bombed during the Indochina wars - or any war? Guess that doesn't count eh?

Or maybe you're saying the US should be bombed - so that it can be rebuilt 'stronger than ever'.

The US never gets bombed, but when it does it's "Never Forget!" and launches a crusade against the entire world Laugh

People get bombed a little, they say "never forget" "we'll make them pay". People get bombed a lot, they say "why are we fighting, can't we all just get along?"
04-12-2017 12:33 PM
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Post: #91
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-12-2017 09:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Why would the globalists and communists support China's rise? The Chinese are much less willing to buy into the SJW propaganda than Western countries.

The Chinese like the Jews, which is why the "globalists" (i.e. the Jews) tolerate them.

As the Jews slowly subvert Asian societies so too will they experience cultural marxism and immigration enrichment. The Chinese are where America was 100 years ago, so it will be awhile before this process completes itself.

Rest assured, it has already begun.

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04-14-2017 11:38 AM
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Post: #92
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-12-2017 08:09 AM)Lunostrelki Wrote:  yeah—I always thought the "being carpet-bombed led to Pol Pot" line of thinking was bollocks. If it were that easy to destabilize a regime why didn't Britain and China succumb after the Axis bombed London and Chongqing?

Yes, like most leftist narratives, it falls apart the moment you take an independent look at the facts and avoid the BS spin.

The only halfway decent argument to be made regarding the US "creating" the Khmer Rouge is that US bombing helped grow their numbers by displacing rural Cambodians.

And while this is certainly true to a certain extent, it wasn't nearly as much of a factor as they'd like you to believe.

First of all, the US bombing began with Sihanouk's approval before the coup, but it was after he was voted out of power and lent his name to the Khmer Rouge that they gained much-needed legitimacy in the eyes of the people, since Sihanouk was considered like a god-king by the lower classes.

And communism was nothing new to Cambodia. The early iterations of the Khmer Rouge were started by the North Vietnamese prior to the Vietnam War as a way of both fighting the French and destabilizing Cambodia's government.

In fact, N. Vietnam's willingness to use and discard Cambodia's communist groups is one of the main reasons there was so much animosity from Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge against Vietnam and Vietnamese-Cambodians.

But of course, they had an alliance of necessity until 1975, and it would NOT have been possible for the Khmer Rouge to take the country nor the capital, Phnom Penh, without the North Vietnamese.

They launched an invasion in Cambodia in 1970 and controlled about 1/4 to 1/3 of the country at that point, turning it all over to the Khmer Rouge.

But even after the US had removed itself from the equation following the '73 Paris Peace Accord, the Khmer Rouge STILL could not take Phnom Penh and again relied on N. Vietnamese assistance to finally take the city in '75.

Not only did the N. Vietnamese directly help the Khmer Rouge into power, they were the entire reason the US bombed Cambodia in the first place.

They were using eastern Cambodia both to transport troops/supplies and as a base to launch attacks on South Vietnam. This happened for years with Sihanouk's support, until the pushback from right-wing factions in Cambodia's government caused him to try to shift away from the left and renew relations with the US, calling them in to bomb the N. Vietnamese bases and transport lines.

But wait, we're still not done. We still have to talk about the Khmer Rouge's other benefactor, China, who supplied the majority of their weapons and training BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER the Khmer Rouge came to power.

Yes, not only did China provide the Khmer Rouge with their arms, starting at least as early as '67 or '68 (which was before the US' main bombing campaigns), they were directly involved in the Khmer Rouge's actual reign from 1975 to 1979, including in the infamous Tuol Sleng prison in Phnom Penh, where something like 15,000+ political prisoners, including men, women, and children, were tortured and executed.

They didn't just provide money. They trained the Tuol Sleng guards, built airstrips, maintained power grids, etc.

And when the North Vietnamese invaded and overthrew the Khmer Rouge in '78/'79, China immediately invaded Vietnam in revenge. Yes, the Sino-Vietnam War started a month after Vietnam took Cambodia. Weird coincidence, huh?

Oh, and regarding the narrative set forth in another thread that portrayed the N. Vietnamese as "liberators", they installed a puppet regime headed by former Khmer Rouge and occupied the country for decades afterwards.

To be clear, the US also had a hand in funding the Khmer Rouge AFTER they had been overthrown and were nothing but a fringe group fighting the Vietnamese occupation and their Khmer Rouge-led puppet regime from the Thai border.

To summarize, we have a communist group that was funded, trained, supported, and directly brought into power by a combination of the Chinese and the North Vietnamese. They were then overthrown by the North Vietnamese, who installed a former Khmer Rouge and pro-Vietnam prime minister while occupying the country for the next decade.

Not only that, North Vietnam had been supporting communists in Cambodia before the Vietnam War even started, while China funded communist rebels in nearly every country in Southeast Asia.

But somehow it is US bombing that caused the Khmer Rouge. It's an absurd piece of revisionism that completely ignores the pivotal role of the "anti-imperialist" Chinese and Vietnamese.

Of course, China denies all of this to this day, as they deny everything else for hundreds of years.
04-14-2017 12:11 PM
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Enigma Offline
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
Ah, and here's the kicker, which goes back to Samseau's mention of the Chinese/Jew comparisons (one of Thailand's kings once called the Chinese the "Jews of the East").

In Cambodia, ethnic Chinese make up about 1% of the population and control about 90% of the wealth.

In the Philippines, they're about 1% of the population and control about 60%+ of the wealth

In Indonesia, they're 1% and control 70%.

In Laos, 1% controls about 99%.

In Thailand, 10% controls about 80%, depending on the industry.

[Image: 34fh2cn.jpg]

(note: some of these numbers may be slightly off or outdated, but the overall estimates are definitely close)

Put those numbers in context. Because we're not talking about countries like Sudan, where the average IQ is 60.

For instance, Filipinos are top 3 in earnings among ethnic groups in the US, performing on par with Taiwanese and well above mainland Chinese. And something like 20% of Filipinos have direct Chinese ancestry and another 5% have Spanish ancestry.

Yet somehow the 1% ethnic Chinese are able to accrue such an enormous amount of wealth in these countries.

As I pointed out, the Chinese funded communist rebels in almost every single one of these countries. But that is not the only way they subvert and destabilize Southeast Asia.

To use the Phils as an example again, not only are there still Maoist rebels fighting in the Southern Philippines to this day (one of the oldest insurgencies in all of Asia), Chinese drug cartels control the majority of the Philippines drug trade. And we're not talking cocaine or heroine -- they're operating meth labs (known in the area as "shabu").

Quote:The arrest of Hong, who has pleaded not guilty, added to the ranks of Chinese nationals seized in the Philippines on narcotics charges. Of 77 foreign nationals arrested for meth-related drug offenses between January 2015 and mid-August 2016, nearly two-thirds were Chinese and almost a quarter were Taiwanese or Hong Kong residents, according to the Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency (PDEA)

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/spec...ugs-china/

Meanwhile 9 of the richest 15 people in the Philippines are ethnic Chinese, many of them actually born or with split residence in China.

In short, you have a situation where China destabilizes all of the countries in SEA, whether it's through war, drugs, etc. while ethnic Chinese create absolute strangleholds on their economies. And that's not even including the South China Sea island chain shitshow.

But this isn't anything new. For instance, Chinese merchants were selling other Asian populations as slaves in the regional Muslim-led slave trade hundreds of years ago.

Ah, but the US are the evil arch-imperialist, arch-capitalist slave masters exploiting all of Asia, of course. We're such bullies that we've been preventing China from invading their neighbors for the past 70 years, and countries like South Korea and Japan flip their shit when we suggest removing our bases and leaving them alone with China.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 01:43 PM by Enigma.)
04-14-2017 01:41 PM
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Arado Offline
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-14-2017 11:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 09:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Why would the globalists and communists support China's rise? The Chinese are much less willing to buy into the SJW propaganda than Western countries.

The Chinese like the Jews, which is why the "globalists" (i.e. the Jews) tolerate them.

As the Jews slowly subvert Asian societies so too will they experience cultural marxism and immigration enrichment. The Chinese are where America was 100 years ago, so it will be awhile before this process completes itself.

Rest assured, it has already begun.

(04-17-2017 01:11 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  The globalists have different plans for China and different ones for the US. China is set to be the manufacturing powerhouse of the world and the US is to be de-industrialized and impoverished.

Can someone please explain this to me? The Chinese are nationalists who have a much more traditionalist worldview compared to liberal westerners and they will not do anything for Israel that isn't in their own interest. There is no equivalent of white guilt in China - the Chinese feel like they have been victims of history and are biding their time till they can get their revenge. The modern globalists are the equivalent of the people who destroyed China back in the 1800's during the opium wars by pushing drugs on the Chinese people and declaring war when the government tried to push back. I really don't understand why they would think that the Chinese would do their bidding once they are more powerful.

Despite the corruption and debt, the Chinese government is arguably less traitorous to its own people than establishment parties in Europe are. Why would the globalist elites want China to dominate the world?
04-17-2017 08:06 AM
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-14-2017 01:41 PM)Enigma Wrote:  Put those numbers in context. Because we're not talking about countries like Sudan, where the average IQ is 60.

For instance, Filipinos are top 3 in earnings among ethnic groups in the US, performing on par with Taiwanese and well above mainland Chinese. And something like 20% of Filipinos have direct Chinese ancestry and another 5% have Spanish ancestry.

Yet somehow the 1% ethnic Chinese are able to accrue such an enormous amount of wealth in these countries.

Are you sure? If you look at the international test score results, the Chinese far outperform Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia. Vietnam does ok but still lags China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_...#PISA_2015
04-17-2017 08:14 AM
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Post: #96
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-17-2017 08:06 AM)Arado Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 11:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 09:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Why would the globalists and communists support China's rise? The Chinese are much less willing to buy into the SJW propaganda than Western countries.

The Chinese like the Jews, which is why the "globalists" (i.e. the Jews) tolerate them.

As the Jews slowly subvert Asian societies so too will they experience cultural marxism and immigration enrichment. The Chinese are where America was 100 years ago, so it will be awhile before this process completes itself.

Rest assured, it has already begun.

(04-17-2017 01:11 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  The globalists have different plans for China and different ones for the US. China is set to be the manufacturing powerhouse of the world and the US is to be de-industrialized and impoverished.

Can someone please explain this to me? The Chinese are nationalists who have a much more traditionalist worldview compared to liberal westerners and they will not do anything for Israel that isn't in their own interest. There is no equivalent of white guilt in China - the Chinese feel like they have been victims of history and are biding their time till they can get their revenge. The modern globalists are the equivalent of the people who destroyed China back in the 1800's during the opium wars by pushing drugs on the Chinese people and declaring war when the government tried to push back. I really don't understand why they would think that the Chinese would do their bidding once they are more powerful.

Despite the corruption and debt, the Chinese government is arguably less traitorous to its own people than establishment parties in Europe are. Why would the globalist elites want China to dominate the world?

The Jews will intermarry Chinese elites, learn the Chinese language, and occupy more and more of top Chinese positions until the country is doing their bidding. Same playbook they used on every Western country.

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04-17-2017 12:38 PM
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Post: #97
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-14-2017 11:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 09:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Why would the globalists and communists support China's rise? The Chinese are much less willing to buy into the SJW propaganda than Western countries.

The Chinese like the Jews, which is why the "globalists" (i.e. the Jews) tolerate them.

As the Jews slowly subvert Asian societies so too will they experience cultural marxism and immigration enrichment. The Chinese are where America was 100 years ago, so it will be awhile before this process completes itself.

Rest assured, it has already begun.

A friend of mine from UK spent 2 weeks in China just now to meet suppliers for his business. He told me that in Guangzhou, the biggest ethnic minority is black Africans (A lot of them are Muslims), and then after that it's about the same number of whites and south Asians (Indians, Pakistanis).

Why Are the Chinese So Obsessed With the Jews?

Quote:In China today, shoppers snap up self-help books about how be smart, rich, and have successful children supposedly by imitating Jews. At least ten universities in China offer Jewish Studies programs. This popularity is in spite of, or due to, the fact that there are almost no Jews in China. “The Image of Jews in Contemporary China”, published by Academic Studies Press, was edited by James Ross, who teaches journalism at Northeastern University in Boston and was a Fulbright lecturer at Nanjing University, where his coeditor, Song Lihong, teaches in the religious studies department. Professor Ross, who has also published books on the Jewish Diaspora and the historical Jewish community in Shanghai, recently spoke with “The Forward’s” Benjamin Ivry about the current Chinese obsession with Yiddishkeit.

Benjamin Ivry: You’ve written about how popular books in China have titles such as “The Secret of Talmud: The Jewish Code of Wealth.” Isn’t this just misappropriation based on unfamiliarity?

James Ross: There are a variety of ways of looking at it. The stereotypes are really dangerous and I worry about them and worry what they could turn into. I don’t think Jews have any control over how they are being portrayed, and reality is not an issue here. It is all mythology, reflecting some common stereotypes. Even in places where they have very successful Jewish studies program such as Nanjing University, those stereotypes are quite common. I know that the ignorance [about Jews] is much more widespread in China than in other places I’ve visited such as Uganda or South America. There is much more direct anti-Semitism in places like Argentina or Ecuador, but China is mostly ignorant of Jews as opposed to having an active dislike of them. I’m not sure if that’s better, but that is what we’re dealing with in terms of popular Chinese understanding.

In 1996, a Taiwanese filmmaker opened Mrs. Shanen’s Bagels and Cream Cheese shop in Beijing. Have you tasted Mrs. Shanen’s product?

I have not, but I have heard from people who should know that they are pretty close to being New York bagels.

The blogger Bob Davis reported that a Chinese Christian housekeeper told him she learned to cook bagels because “this is the bread Jesus ate.” Isn’t such confusion inevitable where Jews are a near-invisible minority?

For the most part, that’s true. The average Chinese person, or even elite Chinese people, doesn’t have much contact with Jews.

In “The Journal of Ecumenical Studies” in 2003, Wan-Li Ho, a former lecturer at Emory University, claimed that Chinese Jews were treated “immeasurably better” than Christians or Muslims, and praised the “Chinese cultural spirit of all-inclusiveness.” This same cultural spirit has stamped out indigenous cultures in Tibet and elsewhere.

Jews were certainly treated better than Muslims but almost anyone is treated better than Muslims in China these days. There is such a wide variety of Christian sects in China now, and some are treated well and some are persecuted. Jewish liturgy is [forbidden in China]. You are not allowed to pray in a synagogue. You are not allowed to read Jewish liturgical books. Without liturgy, it’s hard to understand Judaism. My colleague Song Lihong is in Israel right now and there, I assume he is allowed to read it. [Chinese scholars of Judaism] have to be very careful about what they do and what they study. It’s easier and more acceptable for Chinese scholars to focus on historical, social, and economic subjects, than with understanding Judaism or the liturgy. This makes it difficult for scholars who teach Judaic studies to understand what Judaism really is.

Even if historically the Chinese were more tolerant of Jews than of Christians, is this still true today?

I didn’t feel that. I was taken aback by people’s admiration for me because I was Jewish. And their assumption that I was rich and smart because I am a Jew. I found that really awkward. I tried to suggest several times, without making any progress, that any kind of stereotyping was dangerous and could turn to bad directions very easily. One of the central issues in all this is that the Chinese have lost their belief systems. Now that everything is focused on getting rich and attaining power, there is not much to believe in, and the interest in Jewish people involves what Jews believe in, even though the Chinese cannot study what Jews believe in. So it is still a mystery to them. They feel that they want to be like Jews, but have no idea what Jews believe in.

Weren’t Jews who believed in Mao Zedong, Communist Party members who served in elite Chinese national committees influential in such an autocratic country? Sidney Shapiro (1915 –2014), Israel Epstein (1915 –2005), Ruth Weiss (1908–2006), and Sidney Rittenberg (b. 1921) all advanced Mao’s propaganda messages as high-profile culture heroes, no?

I don’t know if those people were that widely known among the general population of common Chinese folk.

Reportedly, in China there is no concept of tzedakah. Has the interest in Jewish traditions succeeded in making any local billionaires more aware of social justice?

(laughs) One can hope so, but not to my knowledge. I haven’t seen it, but I think it’s a wonderful idea. I’ve never heard or seen any discussion of tzedakah in China.

Avrum Ehrlich, professor of Judaic studies at Shandong University in East China told “The Chronicle of Higher Education” that Chinese have a “sense of affinity with the Jews because of a shared notion of suffering.” Is this so?

Ehrlich has spent more time in China than I have, but I haven’t seen evidence of that.

Fu Youde, a professor of philosophy at Shandong University, also told “The Chronicle” that historically, Jews managed “to retain Jewish cultural identity by reserving Judaism while accepting modernity and merging into Western society.” This is a goal for the Chinese, he states. Can any hope for assimilation be believable with such an aggressive, dominant superpower? Do Chinese computer hackers accept modernity and hope to merge into Western society?

Right, right. Well, when I was teaching in Nanjing, one of my graduate students had just returned from the Muslim areas of Western China and she was basically running these programs that were trying to get Muslims to become more like Han Chinese. I asked whether she found anyone there who resented her. Her answer was, very typically: “No they all want to be like us.” That’s how the Han have become the dominant culture in China, by getting everyone to be like them.

Your book points out that in China today, students are not taught about Nazi death camps, and the Chinese word for Holocaust translates as “Jewish massacre,” leaving it unclear who was killing and who the victim. If the Chinese ever understand that as Frank Dikötter’s “Mao’s Great Famine” explains, the dictator’s policies killed over 45 million people by famine, will they see the murder of six million Jews as a relatively minor, remote misfortune?

I don’t know what it would take for the Chinese people to get a real understanding of what happened under Mao. When I return to teach at Nanjing next spring, I will do a study on the memorial of the Nanjing Massacre. It’s based on Yad Vashem. The folks who did the design had been to Yad Vashem and hoped to get the same respect for the Nanjing Massacre as Jews have for the Holocaust.

In China, texts such as Maimonides’s “Guide of the Perplexed,” Spinoza’s “Hebrew Grammar,” and novels by Amos Oz are not translated from the original but from English translations. Aren’t misunderstandings inevitable?

Oh sure, sure. I’m certain a lot is lost when you’re going from Hebrew to English to Chinese. I think you’re right.

Frank Dikötter’s “The Construction of Racial Identities in China and Japan” (1997) observes that in modern China, the term “Jew” (Youtai) can refer to money, deviousness, stinginess, poverty, trustworthiness, warm-heartedness, individualism, tradition, and modernity. How can we conclude anything concrete about Chinese attitudes to Jews from that word?

I’m sure people can try, but I wouldn’t make any effort to do that.

Would you agree with the historian Daniel J. Elazar, who wrote that “for the moment, the Jews of China remain something between an exotic memory and a transient whisper?”

It’s a nice turn of phrase. I would agree with it. It’s a good analysis of where things stand.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 01:45 AM by WalterBlack.)
04-18-2017 01:42 AM
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Arado Offline
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Post: #98
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-17-2017 12:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 08:06 AM)Arado Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 11:38 AM)Samseau Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 09:57 AM)Arado Wrote:  Why would the globalists and communists support China's rise? The Chinese are much less willing to buy into the SJW propaganda than Western countries.

The Chinese like the Jews, which is why the "globalists" (i.e. the Jews) tolerate them.

As the Jews slowly subvert Asian societies so too will they experience cultural marxism and immigration enrichment. The Chinese are where America was 100 years ago, so it will be awhile before this process completes itself.

Rest assured, it has already begun.

(04-17-2017 01:11 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  The globalists have different plans for China and different ones for the US. China is set to be the manufacturing powerhouse of the world and the US is to be de-industrialized and impoverished.

Can someone please explain this to me? The Chinese are nationalists who have a much more traditionalist worldview compared to liberal westerners and they will not do anything for Israel that isn't in their own interest. There is no equivalent of white guilt in China - the Chinese feel like they have been victims of history and are biding their time till they can get their revenge. The modern globalists are the equivalent of the people who destroyed China back in the 1800's during the opium wars by pushing drugs on the Chinese people and declaring war when the government tried to push back. I really don't understand why they would think that the Chinese would do their bidding once they are more powerful.

Despite the corruption and debt, the Chinese government is arguably less traitorous to its own people than establishment parties in Europe are. Why would the globalist elites want China to dominate the world?

The Jews will intermarry Chinese elites, learn the Chinese language, and occupy more and more of top Chinese positions until the country is doing their bidding. Same playbook they used on every Western country.

(04-18-2017 01:42 AM)WalterBlack Wrote:  A friend of mine from UK spent 2 weeks in China just now to meet suppliers for his business. He told me that in Guangzhou, the biggest ethnic minority is black Africans (A lot of them are Muslims), and then after that it's about the same number of whites and south Asians (Indians, Pakistanis).

This is simply not in line with what is happening in China.

I know southern China very well. The African population is in fact going down here and the locals are very racist towards blacks and the government makes no effort to brainwash the locals into accepting tolerance and diversity. Stats are hard to obtain since most of them are not registered, but outside of a few neighborhoods, the Africans really are a minimal presence in Guangzhou. The only reason the government allows them in China is because they need to keep exporting to Africa, and need the resources there and need the Africans to accept Chinese migration to Africa. There is zero ideological interest in diversity, and ZERO lobbying from anyone for increasing immigration from Africa.

Second of all, the government has recently tightened visa requirements for foreigners, making it harder to obtain residency unless you are contributing to the society. This is a trend away from pushing mass immigration into China.

Finally, the government even launched a campaign last year to discourage local girls from dating foreign guys.
http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/a...nd-not-spy

Quote:The announcement came ahead of the National Security Day on Saturday, which was marked last year by the release of a 16-panel cartoon poster aiming at discouraging Beijingers – especially Beijing women – to date foreigners who, it was said, are basically spies. The poster entitled “Dangerous Love” showed a pretty Chinese civil servant Little Li who gets caught after handing over a state secret to a foreign man called David she falls for. David, who claimed he was a visiting scholar, turned out to be a spy.

This time, the bureau also released another animation to help matters along, complete with tips to nab the white devils – who apparently prefer to wear black capes and Guy Fawkes masks.

“There’s very obvious xenophobia from the top at the moment, across all manner of areas – from visas to imported books to teaching to internal directives. The local authorities are only trying to earn brownie points with the bosses, showing them that they are getting with the programme,” said a foreigner who has been living in Beijing for years. And like everybody else interviewed for this story, refused to be identified.

“There’s been a lot of fear about ideological intrusion and espionage since the Arab spring”, added the old China hand.

Another theory to explain the curious catch-a-white-devil campaign is the authorities’ conscious effort to turn the city into a hub of excellence and innovation, and remove everything – and everyone – not fitting the bill. “I guess it’s a spin-off of the anti-migrant campaign in general,” said another foreigner who has also lived in Beijing for some time and works as a teacher.

“It’s the same mentality that’s pushing the poor to the outskirts of Beijing as their shops are being razed to the ground. The cities are for smart people, which means upper-class and international,” he said. The days when every foreigner was welcome is over, according to him, as China now wants only the “useful” foreigner – those who bring innovation, knowledge and add value.

Seen in this light, the hounding of low-earning white immigrants is not qualitatively different from the ongoing eviction of migrant worker to the city’s margins. A new visa policy based on qualification, education, salary, working area and Chinese level has been in force since November, ranking each foreigner into A, B and C categories for top talent, professional talent and unskilled worker, respectively. Those falling under B and C categories have been finding it increasingly difficult to get a work visa. But that might be a minor inconvenience compared with being thrown into the slammer on suspicion of espionage.

Does this sound like a globalist conspiracy to bring immigration enrichment to China and move the Jews into leadership positions? Give me a break. This is simply a nationalist government that really wants to hold on to power and would rather see their people prosper than be brainwashed by Western ideology.

I think this is a case of people cherry picking data and trying to fit it into some master conspiracy theory of how the world works. Face the facts - what is going on in Asia is completely outside of the globalist/nationalist/jewish focused worldview. Even in the North Korea thread, half of the posters are glorifying North Korea as a bulwark against Western hedonism and claim that the media is lying about what is going on there. Sounds more like "Asia doesn't fit into our box so let's distort the facts until it does."

China's rise is arguably the most important geopolitical phenomenon of the 21st century and the incisive analysis that this forum has produced w/ regard to Western politics is completely missing when it comes to China.

It's not just the forum though - the entire alt right and Breitbart community are glorifying the achievements of the West and sticking their heads in the sand about the China challenge - China was just as advanced as the West for most of its history. The alt right is spending all their energy focusing on Islam, Jews, minority crime, and Russia even though China is the real story.

And to all the haters - I'm still waiting for the economic collapse here that people have been promising for more than a decade. For all the people that keep saying debt and demographics and inefficient investments will destroy China, remember that the U.S. (albeit slower) and Europe are undergoing population replacement by design and also have growing entitlement debt burdens that the government is ignoring. For all the talk about China's collapse, it's nothing compared to the collapse of the West and Civil War 2 rhetoric I'm hearing in the forum about the West, so I don't understand why the forum continues to dismiss China.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 09:44 AM by Arado.)
04-18-2017 09:38 AM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #99
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-18-2017 09:38 AM)Arado Wrote:  And to all the haters - I'm still waiting for the economic collapse here that people have been promising for more than a decade. For all the people that keep saying debt and demographics and inefficient investments will destroy China, remember that the U.S. (albeit slower) and Europe are undergoing population replacement by design and also have growing entitlement debt burdens that the government is ignoring. For all the talk about China's collapse, it's nothing compared to the collapse of the West and Civil War 2 rhetoric I'm hearing in the forum about the West, so I don't understand why the forum continues to dismiss China.

Perhaps you should try reading me more carefully. I said China is where America was 100 years ago.

100 years ago, you could find plenty of "racist" lit on American streets very similar to the stuff you're seeing in China now.

By the way, do you honestly believe that the spoiled sluts of Beijing will more or less attracted to the forbidden fruit "White Devils"? If anything the literature will backfire.

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(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 01:12 PM by Samseau.)
04-18-2017 01:11 PM
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Arado Offline
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Post: #100
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(04-18-2017 01:11 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
(04-18-2017 09:38 AM)Arado Wrote:  And to all the haters - I'm still waiting for the economic collapse here that people have been promising for more than a decade. For all the people that keep saying debt and demographics and inefficient investments will destroy China, remember that the U.S. (albeit slower) and Europe are undergoing population replacement by design and also have growing entitlement debt burdens that the government is ignoring. For all the talk about China's collapse, it's nothing compared to the collapse of the West and Civil War 2 rhetoric I'm hearing in the forum about the West, so I don't understand why the forum continues to dismiss China.

Perhaps you should try reading me more carefully. I said China is where America was 100 years ago.

100 years ago, you could find plenty of "racist" lit on American streets very similar to the stuff you're seeing in China now.

By the way, do you honestly believe that the spoiled sluts of Beijing will more or less attracted to the forbidden fruit "White Devils"? If anything the literature will backfire.

I wasn't referring to you in that paragraph and I hope you read my entire post. Btw I've read your Trump thread posts so I have nothing but respect for you. It's just that I think China is a very important story and I'm annoyed that it's been dealt with in a very superficial manner throughout the alt-right.

Forum members look at China in three ways - either:

1) China's growth is a sham and they will have a collapse before they can seriously challenge the West.

2) China isn't a threat so we should let them take over the South China Sea and bully their neighbors - none of our business.

3) The Globalists/Jews have selected China as the next center for manufacturing because they can control them so we don't really have to worry about China


You fall into #3, and others in this thread have fallen under number 1 or 2.

I fall into #4

4) China's rise will stunt the growth of SJW propaganda as it forces the West to either up their game or lose influence to a world increasingly dominated by China. The alt-right will wish that they could return to a PC Western dominated world. China will keep chipping away at U.S. and Western dominance first in Asia, then Africa, then the rest of the world. Han supremacy will lead to the oppression of other racial groups throughout the world as Chinese put the needs of their people/race above the needs of others, and the West, battered by demographic decline/replacement and political dysfunction, will not be able to mount a serious resistance. With the rise of alternative energy, we can't rely on Russia. Japan/Korea, considering that they have far more in common culturally with China than the West, may at best be neutral.

I see no evidence that China is on the path to demographic replacement and domination by Jews. If there is than I am open to hearing the evidence, but I don't like to bend the facts to fit my pre conceived theories that explain everything.

Perhaps girls will still be attracted to the "white devils," despite the propaganda, but you cannot deny the fact that the government is not encouraging interracial marriage, unlike in the West. There are just too many people in China that girls marrying out is a drop in the bucket, not to mention that it could lead to a violent backlash from Chinese males at some point which will then stop it cold, plus the fact that as China gets more powerful then the white worship will naturally go down.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 06:45 AM by Arado.)
04-19-2017 06:30 AM
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