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The Trump China Policy Thread
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The Beast1 Offline
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Post: #426
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(05-23-2019 03:57 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  What exactly do the China bashers want anyway? The criticisms are all over the place starting with muh intellectual property and ending with “they’re colonizing Africa”.

What is it that you want China to stop doing?

[Image: ostrich-head-in-sand.jpg]

You've got 17 pages of criticisms to mull over. If it's too hard to figure out why it's bad, then maybe this topic might be over your head.

Or what is more likely is that you hate your country. Something that is frankly sad and puts you in line with antifa, communists, and the other degenerates we dislike in this community.

While I may disagree and find that mindset weak and disgusting, the best part about America is that you have a right to that opinion and I will happily defend that right from Chicoms with force here and abroad.

Good luck feeling similarly and vocalizing such an opinion about China if the unipolar world changes and you decide that living under their force isn't as fun as you thought it was.

Just admit it, you're just trying to bolster your social credit score when the chicoms go all Red Dawn.Laugh
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2019 10:39 AM by The Beast1.)
05-23-2019 09:59 AM
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CaptainChardonnay Offline
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Post: #427
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
They've literally published a book on what they're doing

https://www.c4i.org/unrestricted.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare
05-23-2019 11:54 AM
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Deepdiver Offline
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Post: #428
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
The latest perspective from Jim Rickards Strategic Intelligence Report:

Will China Use Its “Nuclear Option” in the U.S. Trade War?

The trade war was never going to be easy for China. There are several reasons for this. The easiest one boils down to third-grade math. In round numbers, the U.S. imports about $500 billion per year from China. In turn, China imports about $150 billion per year from the U.S. The difference is a $350 billion-per-year trade deficit with China that Trump wants to eliminate (or at least greatly reduce). When Trump put tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods, the Chinese initially retaliated with dollar-for-dollar tariffs on U.S. goods. The problem is they ran out of headroom. China is now proposing tariffs on almost 100% of its imports from the U.S., but Trump still has $300 billion to go.

When Trump puts tariffs on those goods (which he is planning to do over the coming months), China has no way to retaliate directly because they simply don’t buy enough from the U.S. If China wants to retaliate, they’ll have to use nontariff measures. These can include bans on acquisitions of Chinese companies by U.S. companies and limits on U.S. direct investment in China. But these restrictions are already tough, so it’s not clear how much more China can do.

The theft of intellectual property has been going on for decades and is continuing. That’s a big problem, but it’s not new and does not represent an escalation, because it’s already there. What can China do? One so-called “nuclear option” is for China to dump its massive holdings of U.S. Treasury notes, about $1.4 trillion in value. The idea is that if China dumps these Treasuries, prices will drop, interest rates will go up, stocks will drop and the U.S. housing market will hit a wall. It’s a kind of economic warfare. Everything about this scenario is wrong.

China won’t dump Treasuries because they would be the biggest loser (because they own so many themselves and you can’t sell them all at once). The president can freeze China’s accounts with one phone call if any economic damage begins. Besides, there are plenty of other buyers of U.S. Treasuries including U.S. banks and, if needed, the Federal Reserve. The bottom line is that China is stuck with a losing hand. And Trump knows it.

Deepdiver the OG Hunter-Killer ... NBF - Nuke Boats Forever!
"You do not have to be a perfect person to be a perfect PATRIOT!"

Official Whitehouse.gov President Donald John Trump's real achievements: https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-adminis...lishments/

Communist Freaking Red China's Plan to Undermine the USA and the West:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/up...18-PDF.pdf

The Naked Communists 45 Goals for the USA:
http://www.restoring-america.com/Documen...0NOTES.pdf
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2019 03:03 PM by Deepdiver.)
05-23-2019 03:01 PM
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CaptainChardonnay Offline
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Post: #429
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
In simpler terms, dumping T-bills is about the dumbest thing they can do. The reason people buy US T-bills is because they're the safest asset available. It is the asset which CAPM is based off of. It's actually a compliment that they own so many.
05-23-2019 03:20 PM
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Deepdiver Offline
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Post: #430
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(05-23-2019 03:20 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  In simpler terms, dumping T-bills is about the dumbest thing they can do. The reason people buy US T-bills is because they're the safest asset available. It is the asset which CAPM is based off of. It's actually a compliment that they own so many.

Add to that the US T Bills pay actual interest unlike Zero Interest Rates/Negative Interest rates now prevalent in places like the EU/Japan etc. The EU and Japan not to mention US-based Pension funds would buy up all the T Bills China would like to sell if just to convert their surplus trade dollars into safe interest-bearing assets just to get out of NIRP/ZIRP accounts.

Deepdiver the OG Hunter-Killer ... NBF - Nuke Boats Forever!
"You do not have to be a perfect person to be a perfect PATRIOT!"

Official Whitehouse.gov President Donald John Trump's real achievements: https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-adminis...lishments/

Communist Freaking Red China's Plan to Undermine the USA and the West:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/up...18-PDF.pdf

The Naked Communists 45 Goals for the USA:
http://www.restoring-america.com/Documen...0NOTES.pdf
05-23-2019 03:55 PM
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CaptainChardonnay
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Post: #431
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
Quote:Or what is more likely is that you hate your country. Something that is frankly sad and puts you in line with antifa, communists, and the other degenerates we dislike in this community.

While I may disagree and find that mindset weak and disgusting, the best part about America is that you have a right to that opinion and I will happily defend that right from Chicoms with force here and abroad.

Good luck feeling similarly and vocalizing such an opinion about China if the unipolar world changes and you decide that living under their force isn't as fun as you thought it was.

Just admit it, you're just trying to bolster your social credit score when the chicoms go all Red Dawn.Laugh



05-23-2019 04:12 PM
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Suits Offline
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Post: #432
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(05-23-2019 02:56 AM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  
(05-22-2019 10:59 PM)Suits Wrote:  
(05-22-2019 10:11 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  What's up with all the anti-China hatred and sentiment here???

It honestly makes no sense to me at all.

Some of us actually live in China, have invested heavily into the culture and therefore aren't clueless about what a China as the leading global power would look like.

(05-22-2019 10:11 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  What has China done or is doing that's so evil or worth being hostile to them?

I could make a list, but I'll just throw one thing out there.

Chinese business and individuals aren't free to buy foreign goods in the same way that people of virtually every other country are. This is enforced through strict currency controls and import policies. Sure, some foreign goods are sold in China, but by and large, China is not open to foreign goods (including some created by yours truly) and the fact that the biggest consumer market in the world sells to everyone else and holds a virtual monopoly on selling to itself makes me

(a) pissed that China doesn't play fair
(b) pissed that my country (and others) let them get away with it

(05-22-2019 10:11 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  Honestly, China is arguably the most peaceful great power in the world ever, as they literally haven't been in a single armed conflict ever since the Korean War in the 1950's.

Wrong.

(05-22-2019 10:11 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  China is literally building infrastructure (roads, railways, buildings etc.) for at least half the planet and improving the economic prosperity of these countries.

Heh. You really wanna go there?


(05-22-2019 10:11 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  What has the USA done ever since it got undisputed uni-polar world power status in the 1990's (which has only begun to slowly decline from the 2000's)?

Its launched at least 10 wars, aggressively overthrown (or tried to at least) the governments of at least 20 countries through color revolutions, imposed the big gay and all other forms of LGBTQ/feminism on the world, imposed IMF and World Bank usury/debt slavery on the world, imposed its military occupation on half the planet through its army bases and NATO alliance and a bunch of other things that i can't think of immediately from the top of my head ...

Now, when they are obviously losing their leading power status to China they are getting all up into a hissy fit, even though its literally their fault for making China an economic power.

When the US starts unnecessary wars and the CIA fucks up again, its own citizens protest the government. The Vietnam War ended largely because of negative sentiment towards it by the people of the USA once the realities of the situation came to light.

Do you think anyone in China is going to give a fuck when their leaders invade other countries? Are they going to hold their government to account. Is there even a mechanism for doing so in the Middle Kingdom?

(05-22-2019 10:11 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  It was the elites of the USA who outsourced the industrial base of their country to China. They were the ones that decided to engage intensively in trading with China despite knowing that long-term China would likely take their technologies regardless of patents, and easily be able to replicate the production of things like phones and microchips much more cost effectively.

Yes, we can be pissed at the elites of our own country AND China for abusing our generosity, by providing a system of international trade that they could have never reached their current level of development without the assistance of.

We just want them to start playing by the rules, instead of operating a system where money can enter China, but never leave.

(05-22-2019 10:11 PM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  I frankly believe that people in the West have much more urgent and critical issues to deal with that are non-China related, than to be good goy shills against China ...

You say that because you're not qualified to assess the situation.

Okay, China has mercantilist and protectionist economic policies and looks out for itself in the world. So what? Do US corporations play fair in the world economic marketplace?

Okay, China had a border war with Vietnam in 1970 and a bunch of border skirmishes with the Soviet Union in the 1970's as well. Still, these are all wars in China's immediate neighborhood and not them going to the far corners of the earth to invade other people. Ever since then, China has literally undisputedly been at peace for at least 30 years ever since the 1990's.

LOL. Why should i care if the Chinese only trust their own to build infrastructure projects in Africa? Is the fact that a bunch of animals happen to be ran over by a Chinese built train really the fault of China?

Okay, the Chinese probably aren't going to be protesting much when their government gets involved in some kind of war. If there really were "democratic accountability" in the USA/West, all the warmongering and immigration (among other things) would've stopped a long time ago. Still, do the Chinese run around the planet hoaxing false flag attacks or incidents by faking/exaggerating "human rights violations" and "anti-democratic" nonsense in order to provoke and justify invasions all over the world?

Is China really the most urgent issue then? Don't you consider the fact that peoples' of European descent in the Anglosphere and West Europe going extinct and not existing in the next century a big issue?

The European-descended populations of Britain and the USA are on the verge of becoming minorities by 2050 or earlier. I would personally be far more bothered by that, than China, if i lived in either Britain or the USA ...

I'm not here to debate you.

But make blatantly incorrect statements about an area of knowledge to which you are poorly acquainted and I will be waiting, ready to pounce.

I'm the King of Beijing!
05-23-2019 08:41 PM
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Luvianka Offline
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Post: #433
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(05-23-2019 03:01 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  The latest perspective from Jim Rickards Strategic Intelligence Report:

Will China Use Its “Nuclear Option” in the U.S. Trade War?

The trade war was never going to be easy for China. There are several reasons for this. The easiest one boils down to third-grade math. In round numbers, the U.S. imports about $500 billion per year from China. In turn, China imports about $150 billion per year from the U.S. The difference is a $350 billion-per-year trade deficit with China that Trump wants to eliminate (or at least greatly reduce). When Trump put tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods, the Chinese initially retaliated with dollar-for-dollar tariffs on U.S. goods. The problem is they ran out of headroom. China is now proposing tariffs on almost 100% of its imports from the U.S., but Trump still has $300 billion to go.

When Trump puts tariffs on those goods (which he is planning to do over the coming months), China has no way to retaliate directly because they simply don’t buy enough from the U.S. If China wants to retaliate, they’ll have to use nontariff measures. These can include bans on acquisitions of Chinese companies by U.S. companies and limits on U.S. direct investment in China. But these restrictions are already tough, so it’s not clear how much more China can do.

The theft of intellectual property has been going on for decades and is continuing. That’s a big problem, but it’s not new and does not represent an escalation, because it’s already there. What can China do? One so-called “nuclear option” is for China to dump its massive holdings of U.S. Treasury notes, about $1.4 trillion in value. The idea is that if China dumps these Treasuries, prices will drop, interest rates will go up, stocks will drop and the U.S. housing market will hit a wall. It’s a kind of economic warfare. Everything about this scenario is wrong.

China won’t dump Treasuries because they would be the biggest loser (because they own so many themselves and you can’t sell them all at once). The president can freeze China’s accounts with one phone call if any economic damage begins. Besides, there are plenty of other buyers of U.S. Treasuries including U.S. banks and, if needed, the Federal Reserve. The bottom line is that China is stuck with a losing hand. And Trump knows it.

I don't think China will use any 'Nuclear Option', either it's a financial one (dumping US bonds) or a tech one (shutting down exports of rare metals to the US). Trump wants to win this trade war with a knockout before round 3 a la Tyson. China wants to run the whole 12 rounds and win by decision. Chinese officials know they have time in their favor and they just need to wage an attrition war a la Mayweather.

With God's help, I'll conquer this terrible affliction.

By way of deception, thou shalt game women.

Diaboli virtus in lumbar est -The Devil's virtue is in his loins.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2019 12:24 PM by Luvianka.)
05-24-2019 12:18 PM
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Post: #434
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(05-24-2019 12:18 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  I don't think China will use any 'Nuclear Option', either it's a financial one (dumping US bonds) or a tech one (shutting down exports of rare metals to the US). Trump wants to win this trade war with a knockout before round 3 a la Tyson. China wants to run the whole 12 rounds and win by decision. Chinese officials know they have time in their favor and they just need to wage an attrition war a la Mayweather.

Do they really have time in their favour?

Every day that passes is another day for international companies to find sources and suppliers outside of China, another day towards the retirement of the glut of workers that powered China's growth. Another day for the countries surrounding China to coordinate and solidify their defences.

China would gain more breathing room if Biden wins in 2020, but the game's in America's favour past the next 19 months.

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Yesterday 04:35 AM
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911 Online
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
Moving forward China will be relying more on its domestic market and that of the developing world (Africa, central Asia, FSU,...). They've been planning for this the last two decades, with trillion dollar commerce infrastructure investments.

“Nothing is more useful than to look upon the world as it really is.”
Yesterday 12:54 PM
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CaptainChardonnay Offline
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread




You don't go from 3% market share to 13% marketshare in the span of a few years unless you are extremely innovative. This is how blatant Huawei is.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 02:42 PM by CaptainChardonnay.)
Yesterday 02:28 PM
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Deepdiver Offline
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(05-24-2019 12:18 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 03:01 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  The latest perspective from Jim Rickards Strategic Intelligence Report:

Will China Use Its “Nuclear Option” in the U.S. Trade War?

The trade war was never going to be easy for China. There are several reasons for this. The easiest one boils down to third-grade math. In round numbers, the U.S. imports about $500 billion per year from China. In turn, China imports about $150 billion per year from the U.S. The difference is a $350 billion-per-year trade deficit with China that Trump wants to eliminate (or at least greatly reduce). When Trump put tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods, the Chinese initially retaliated with dollar-for-dollar tariffs on U.S. goods. The problem is they ran out of headroom. China is now proposing tariffs on almost 100% of its imports from the U.S., but Trump still has $300 billion to go.

When Trump puts tariffs on those goods (which he is planning to do over the coming months), China has no way to retaliate directly because they simply don’t buy enough from the U.S. If China wants to retaliate, they’ll have to use nontariff measures. These can include bans on acquisitions of Chinese companies by U.S. companies and limits on U.S. direct investment in China. But these restrictions are already tough, so it’s not clear how much more China can do.

The theft of intellectual property has been going on for decades and is continuing. That’s a big problem, but it’s not new and does not represent an escalation, because it’s already there. What can China do? One so-called “nuclear option” is for China to dump its massive holdings of U.S. Treasury notes, about $1.4 trillion in value. The idea is that if China dumps these Treasuries, prices will drop, interest rates will go up, stocks will drop and the U.S. housing market will hit a wall. It’s a kind of economic warfare. Everything about this scenario is wrong.

China won’t dump Treasuries because they would be the biggest loser (because they own so many themselves and you can’t sell them all at once). The president can freeze China’s accounts with one phone call if any economic damage begins. Besides, there are plenty of other buyers of U.S. Treasuries including U.S. banks and, if needed, the Federal Reserve. The bottom line is that China is stuck with a losing hand. And Trump knows it.

I don't think China will use any 'Nuclear Option', either it's a financial one (dumping US bonds) or a tech one (shutting down exports of rare metals to the US). Trump wants to win this trade war with a knockout before round 3 a la Tyson. China wants to run the whole 12 rounds and win by decision. Chinese officials know they have time in their favor and they just need to wage an attrition war a la Mayweather.

Excellent Boxing Metaphors will be interesting to see how each round ends when the bell rings and bout finally ends.

Deepdiver the OG Hunter-Killer ... NBF - Nuke Boats Forever!
"You do not have to be a perfect person to be a perfect PATRIOT!"

Official Whitehouse.gov President Donald John Trump's real achievements: https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-adminis...lishments/

Communist Freaking Red China's Plan to Undermine the USA and the West:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/up...18-PDF.pdf

The Naked Communists 45 Goals for the USA:
http://www.restoring-america.com/Documen...0NOTES.pdf
Yesterday 02:42 PM
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dicknixon72 Offline
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Post: #438
RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
The largest advantage China has in its favor is Xi (and the party) rule for life; Trump may have as little as 18 months left.

I feel this presidency will go down in history as the last bulwark against Sino dominance globally.
Yesterday 03:06 PM
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911 Online
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
Right, China plays the long game. Its government has a coherent long-term national economic and industrial policy that preserves its national interests.

(Yesterday 02:28 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  



You don't go from 3% market share to 13% marketshare in the span of a few years unless you are extremely innovative. This is how blatant Huawei is.

They do have a decent R&D program:

[Image: huwa%202.png?itok=ANs28ldS]

[Image: hua%207.png?itok=-XdeL-6m]

I think the 13% market share you're talking about here is the global smartphone market, which was ripe for a lower-cost high quality play, the product becoming closer to a commodity. Apple, and to a lesser extent Samsung have been overcharging, resting on the laurels of their brand status.

Using other companies' technology is not anything new, the computer you are using right now was built on stolen technology, Bill Gates having ripped off the heart of the DOS operating system, CP/M. The entire Microsoft empire was built on this theft.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/07...eee_smear/

Microsoft has never produced anything of note, its main office suite are products developed by Lotus (spreadsheets, word processors). They've also ripped off Apple's user interface, which Jobs ripped off from Xerox Labs, along with the computer mouse.

By comparison, Huawei's case is far more benign. They've become a key player in 5G networking largely through their own merit. The main reason it is getting slammed is because of geopolitics, with tech infrastructure starting to fall outside of the alphabet agencies' grip.

“Nothing is more useful than to look upon the world as it really is.”
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 07:33 PM by 911.)
Yesterday 07:31 PM
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Luvianka Offline
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RE: The Trump China Policy Thread
(Yesterday 04:35 AM)Transsimian Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 12:18 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  I don't think China will use any 'Nuclear Option', either it's a financial one (dumping US bonds) or a tech one (shutting down exports of rare metals to the US). Trump wants to win this trade war with a knockout before round 3 a la Tyson. China wants to run the whole 12 rounds and win by decision. Chinese officials know they have time in their favor and they just need to wage an attrition war a la Mayweather.

Do they really have time in their favour?

Every day that passes is another day for international companies to find sources and suppliers outside of China, another day towards the retirement of the glut of workers that powered China's growth. Another day for the countries surrounding China to coordinate and solidify their defences.

China would gain more breathing room if Biden wins in 2020, but the game's in America's favour past the next 19 months.

Of course, they have time in their favor.
China is already using this feud to inflamate nationalism and blame every one of its flaws to the the Trump Admin.
Some American sectors such as Farms and some industries are already suffering. American consumers will suffer and elections are coming...

With God's help, I'll conquer this terrible affliction.

By way of deception, thou shalt game women.

Diaboli virtus in lumbar est -The Devil's virtue is in his loins.
Yesterday 07:41 PM
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