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The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
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RoastBeefCurtains4Me Offline
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Post: #176
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
http://http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/20...-pill.html

Pretty good article about liberals being red pilled when they become disillusioned with authoritarian leftist tactics. They mention the red pill previously being primarily a thing in the manosphere in opposition to feminism, but now the concept of the red pill is taking on a political meaning.

They mention a number of former liberal bloggers and YouTube personalities who now call themselves red pilled. Lacy Green is one they mention.

The cultural war is still on, but our side is winning hearts and minds.

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Post: #177
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
Interesting article.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschl...o-n2459833

Why Democrats Would Lose the Second Civil War, Too

Quote:It’s obvious that the central tenet of the Democrat Party platform is now hatred and contempt for Normal Americans. Taking their cue from the elites in Europe and Canada who are stripping dissenters of their free speech rights and religious freedoms, the leftist elite is moving to solidify its hold on power here with the eager assistance of tech companies and the moral support of the Fredocons who yearn to return to pseudo-relevance as the ruling class’s slobberingly loyal opposition. In California, the leftist government is practically firing on Fort Sumter. And nationally, these aspiring fascists are especially eager to disarm Normal Americans – doing so would be an object lesson in who’s the boss, as well as solving that frustrating problem of the Normals having the ability to resist.

Probably because I’ve spent time where they actually had a civil war, many people ask me – people whose names you know – whether I think this turmoil will all end in a Second Civil War. They are seriously concerned, and not without cause – the left’s hatred for Normal Americans and its dedication to totally stripping the people who are the backbone of this country of their ability to participate in their own governance is threatening to rip the country apart.

Do I think there will be a civil war? No, but there could be. This is the Age of Black Swans, and anything is possible – we could easily see the country split into red and blue. Civil war is unlikely, but never underestimate Democrat stupidity and hatred. The Schlichter family learned that lesson a century and half ago, the last time the Democrats decided to try to impose their hatred of basic human rights on the rest of the country, when an army of Democrats burned our family hometown.

Oh, they paid for it. And they would pay again. Democrats are 0-1 in insurrections, and if they went for another round, they would be 0-2. It’s a matter of terrain, numbers, and morale.

Democrats, who think history began when Obama was elected, don’t understand the dangerous game they are playing when they talk about how they want to impose their brown shirt vision upon red America. The keyboard commandos of the left seek to hand wave away the massive strategic challenge of imposing control by force upon a well-armed, decentralized citizenry occupying the vast majority of the territory, so they babble about drones and tanks as counterinsurgency trump cards. But there are no trump cards in war. There are men, with rifles, standing on patches of dirt, killing the people trying to push them off. That’s the ugly reality of war. And multiply the usual brutality of war by ten when it’s a civil war.

There are two Civil War II scenarios, and the left is poorly positioned to prevail in either one. The first scenario is that the Democrats take power and violate the Constitution in order to use the apparatus of the federal government to suppress and oppress Normal Americans. In that scenario, red Americans are the insurgents. In the second scenario, which we can even now see the stirrings of in California’s campaign to nullify federal immigration law, it is the blue states that are the insurgents.

The Democrats lose both wars. Big time.


Let’s talk terrain and numbers. Remember the famous red v. blue voting map? There is a lot of red, and in the interior the few blue splotches are all cities like Las Vegas or Denver. That is a lot of territory for a counter-insurgent force to control, and this is critical. The red is where the food is grown, the oil pumped, and through which everything is transported. And that red space is filled with millions of American citizens with small arms, a fairly large percentage of whom have military training.

Remember what two untrained idiots did in Boston with a couple of pistols? They shut a city down. Now multiply that by several million, with better weapons and training.

Let’s look at the counter-insurgent forces in the Democrat oppression scenario should they attempt to misuse our law enforcement and military in an unconstitutional manner to take the rights of American citizens. There are a lot of civilian law enforcement officers, but the vast majority of the agencies are local – sheriffs, small town police departments. They will not be reliable allies in supporting unlawful oppression of their friends and neighbors. The major cities’ police departments are run by Democrat appointees, so the commands would be loyal. But the rank-and-file? A small percentage would be ideologically loyal. More would be loyal because that’s their paycheck – they could be swayed or intimidated to support the rebels. Others would be actively sympathetic to the insurgents. This is true of federal law enforcement agencies as well.

And the military? Well, wouldn’t the military just crush any resistance? Not so fast. The military would have the combat power to win any major engagement, but insurgents don’t get into major engagements with forces that have more combat power. They instead leverage their decentralized ability to strike at the counter-insurgents’ weak points to eliminate the government’s firepower advantage. In other words, hit and run, and no stand-up fights.

For example, how do a bunch of hunters in Wisconsin defeat a company of M1A2 Abrams tanks? They ambush the fuel and ammo trucks. Oh, and they wait until the gunner pops the hatch to take a leak and put a .30-06 round in his back from 300 meters. Then they disappear. What do the tanks do then? Go level the nearest town? Great. Now they just moved the needle in favor of the insurgents among the population. Pretty soon, they can’t be outside of their armored vehicles in public. Their forces are spending 90% of their efforts not on actual counter-insurgency operations but on force protection. Sure, they own their forward operating bases, and they own a few hundred meters around them wherever they happen to be standing at the moment, but the rest of the territory is bright red. As my recent novel illustrates, American guerillas with small arms are a deadly threat to the forces of a dictatorship.

But the military is so big it would overwhelm any rebels, right? Well, how big do you think the military is? And, more importantly, how many actual boots on the ground can it deploy? Let’s put it in terms of brigade combat teams, which total about 4,500 troops each. There are about 60 brigades in the Army, active and reserve, here and abroad, and let’s give the Marines another 10 brigades, for about 70 brigades. Sounds impressive. But that’s deceptive.

Let’s put aside a big consideration – the existence of red states that would provide for an insurgent government structure and possibly attract the loyalty of some National Guard and even federal brigades. For example, if President Hillary Clinton put down her chardonnay long enough to sign a ban on privately owned guns, it’s not unreasonable to expect the governor of Texas to reject federal authority – after all, California just taught us that this is totally cool. But in this case, look for several brigades located there to hoist the Lone Star flag.

So, now the blue states are facing unconventional and conventional forces.

Let’s ignore that problem and focus on a different challenge. Even a normal unit has about 10% non-deployable members. Now, if these troops were assigned to combat operations against other Americans, you would have significant additional losses through desertion. Many of the senior leaders would participate – the Obama generation – and there is a certain type of junior officer only too happy to curry favor by sucking up in defiance of their oath (which is to the Constitution, not to some leftist president). You can identify them because they usually have “strategist” in their Twitter bios. But a lot of key, capable officer and NCO leaders, and enlisted troops, would vanish. That is proper. It is a violation of their oath to unconstitutionally oppress fellow Americans; their duty would be to refuse such unlawful orders.

So, you have significantly understrength units going in. Now, how many of the troops in a brigade are actually even front line combat troops? About a third – the rest are support. So a brigade is really about 1500 riflemen tops before you count losses. Cut those in half for sleep, training, and refitting at any one time (which is very generous) and your brigade is really 750 troops on your best day with everyone showing up. Realistically, it’s 300.

That holds one mid-sized town. And there are hundreds of mid-sized towns. Plus there are millions of Normal Americans who would fight back. Nothing would move without their permission – a few guys shooting up big rigs along the interstate would shut down the entire trucking industry. Bottom line: there simply are not enough military forces to clear and hold red America.

What about drones and bombers? Both are useful. But the minute a bombing strike kills some red civilians the families of counter-insurgent drone operators and pilots will be knocking at the base gates to be let inside. Now you’ll need many of those brigades to protect the civilians you now need to protect from retribution.

Civil wars are harsh. That’s why you avoid them.

How about the blue insurgency scenario? That goes even worse for the Democrats. You have the federal government apparatus in the hands of red America, and the insurgents are the opposite of decentralized and armed. They are conveniently centered in gun-unfriendly blue cities. In other words, the blue civilian population is much less of a threat.

A red counter-insurgency avoids the problem of a decentralized insurgency and insecure logistical lines. In the case of California, whose secessionist antics are approaching the point where President Trump could legitimately employ his power to crush insurrections, the tactical problem is relatively simple. For example, San Francisco is a hotbed of treason, but the populace is largely unarmed and is trapped in a confined area. You put a brigade on securing the Golden Gate and Bay Bridges, then put a brigade on the San Francisco Peninsula to cut off the I-280 and US-101 corridors. Next you go to the Crystal Springs Dam and cut off the water. Then you watch and wait as the tech hipsters run out of artisanal sushi rice and kombucha.

After about a week, they surrender. After all, you can’t eat and drink smugness. LA is just bigger in scope – more corridors to cut off, but in the end the population concentrations in large liberal urban areas that are their strength also make them extremely vulnerable to logistical pressure.

Then there’s another factor, an intangible but a crucial one. It’s commitment. The Democrat threat to peace is based on its policies designed to deprive Normal Americans of their right to speak freely, to worship freely, and to defend themselves and their rights with firearms. Make no mistake – millions of Normal Americans are willing to risk death to defend those rights. In fact, many swore to do so when they entered our military and law enforcement. But who is the leftist big talker willing to die to impose the fascist dream of censorship, religious oppression, and disarmament on Normal American citizens? Is the screeching SJW at Yale going to suit up in Kevlar? Is the Vox columnist going to grab a M4? Is the Hollywood poser going to switch her gyno-beanie for a helmet?

No. Hell, we just heard our liberal opponents explaining why a cop shouldn’t be expected to go fight a scumbag murdering kids because it’s scary. America might split apart, but it’s highly unlikely Team Kale n’ Vinyl would fight should their big talk finally push Normal America too far.

Take care of those titties for me.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 09:46 PM by Dusty.)
03-12-2018 09:45 PM
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Mr_Nobody Offline
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Post: #178
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
Not worried so much about politics causing Civil War 2, I think that the big boys in NSA and feds have the marital law thing locked down pretty good, and could respond in advance to MOST huge riots and attacks. Of course I could be way wrong and it could cause Civil War 2.

Now where I see shit getting dangerous (and where its going) is in the event of an economic meltdown or pandemic. Right now more likely that the dollar will somehow melt under the immense weight of all the fucking debt, and they'll turn it into a cashless society. Goodbye the last vestiges of privacy. Hello 1984.

In an economic meltdown or nationwide pandemic, the feds would pull the eject button and hunker down. They probably would implement martial law, but they know at that point it wouldn't matter because every major city would become a warzone, with nags and vagrants shooting it out just to get food or what dwindling resources remain.

Stocked country folks would probably do a lot better. Main reason I am leaving Atlanta for good. If any serious shit goes down this place is gonna be a hellhole. And same with any other major city.

High Population Density + Scarce Resources = Carnage
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2018 05:43 AM by Mr_Nobody.)
03-13-2018 05:41 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #179
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
The military has been preparing even for massive uprising since decades. I read reports of where they are willing to use mini-nukes on certain areas. Even when you have an economic collapse - soldiers and their families are going to get full rations, are still going to get paid and are going to be relatively safe. When an area becomes too hard to control, then they will just nuke it from orbit. The other parts of the country will follow suit or die.

Plus - the only thing they would fear is a non-diverse uniform White population united against a hostile elite. They have zero fears that a highly divided multi-racial USA would erupt in any meaningful rebellion.
03-13-2018 05:52 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #180
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
I very much doubt they will selectively nuke areas.

The first thing that's going to disappear in a serious crisis are communications.

There's no point whatsoever in making an example of a city or district if nobody even realises you've done it. The illusion that the government could maintain control during a serious crash is just that. An illusion.

A useful one if people buy into it. After all, that's all civilisation boils down to, even this minute. That the authorities are in control. The reality is that there's simply not enough cold, hungry, angry people just yet to tip the edge of the boat past the water line.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2018 06:45 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
03-13-2018 06:44 AM
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Post: #181
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-12-2018 09:45 PM)Dusty Wrote:  Interesting article.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschl...o-n2459833

Why Democrats Would Lose the Second Civil War, Too

Dems are fully aware of that and are channeling all their power into winning the First Demographic War instead.

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03-13-2018 07:44 AM
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Post: #182
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-13-2018 07:44 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 09:45 PM)Dusty Wrote:  Interesting article.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschl...o-n2459833

Why Democrats Would Lose the Second Civil War, Too

Dems are fully aware of that and are channeling all their power into winning the First Demographic War instead.

I suspect that in a civil war scenario, the left would be hoping that the Hispanic immigrant and African-American communities would take their side and fight the red staters to a standstill, presumably under the command of white hipster officers.
03-13-2018 08:57 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #183
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
Regarding the analysis on why liberals would lose a civil war, if it came to that then people should be less worried about being shot by the other side and more worried about starving to death, dying of dehydration and sickness or freezing to death in winter.

If the big machine grinds to a halt due to some regional conflict then your biggest threat isn't the regional conflict, it's the absence of life in the big machine.
03-13-2018 08:58 AM
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Post: #184
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-13-2018 06:44 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I very much doubt they will selectively nuke areas.

The first thing that's going to disappear in a serious crisis are communications.

RVFers should get a few ham radios. I have a high powered mobile 2M and a few HTs. Only use it really gets now is if I go storm chasing in Kansas.

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03-13-2018 10:23 AM
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Post: #185
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(09-13-2017 10:50 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  http://http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/20...-pill.html
Pretty good article about liberals being red pilled when they become disillusioned with authoritarian leftist tactics. They mention the red pill previously being primarily a thing in the manosphere in opposition to feminism, but now the concept of the red pill is taking on a political meaning.
They mention a number of former liberal bloggers and YouTube personalities who now call themselves red pilled. Lacy Green is one they mention.
The cultural war is still on, but our side is winning hearts and minds.

Meh... for every 1 liberal that gets red pilled. 1,000 graduate high school fully brainwashed.

(03-13-2018 08:58 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Regarding the analysis on why liberals would lose a civil war, if it came to that then people should be less worried about being shot by the other side and more worried about starving to death, dying of dehydration and sickness or freezing to death in winter.
If the big machine grinds to a halt due to some regional conflict then your biggest threat isn't the regional conflict, it's the absence of life in the big machine.

Would either side be stupid enough to try to stop food production? Or blow up oil refineries?

I honestly have no idea how a civil war in the US would be conducted from a military standpoint. I suppose it depends on which side the major authorities support?

I mean we are not really divided by states... we are divided between rural/suburban and Urban. So, even in conservative Georgia... they would have to lay siege to Atlanta and root out the liberals one by one. In Liberal states they would actually have to go into the rural areas and fight their own farmers house by house, which would virtually end their domestic food production. Honestly conservatives in those areas could wage a guerrilla war like the Iraqis did in 2004.

I think it's much more likely that we will continue along in this cold civil war until Liberals have such strong majorities that conservatives just give up and live with it.
03-30-2018 10:37 AM
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Post: #186
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-30-2018 10:37 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  ...
(03-13-2018 08:58 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Regarding the analysis on why liberals would lose a civil war, if it came to that then people should be less worried about being shot by the other side and more worried about starving to death, dying of dehydration and sickness or freezing to death in winter.
If the big machine grinds to a halt due to some regional conflict then your biggest threat isn't the regional conflict, it's the absence of life in the big machine.

Would either side be stupid enough to try to stop food production? Or blow up oil refineries?

I honestly have no idea how a civil war in the US would be conducted from a military standpoint. I suppose it depends on which side the major authorities support?

I mean we are not really divided by states... we are divided between rural/suburban and Urban. So, even in conservative Georgia... they would have to lay siege to Atlanta and root out the liberals one by one. In Liberal states they would actually have to go into the rural areas and fight their own farmers house by house, which would virtually end their domestic food production. Honestly conservatives in those areas could wage a guerrilla war like the Iraqis did in 2004.

I think it's much more likely that we will continue along in this cold civil war until Liberals have such strong majorities that conservatives just give up and live with it.

Supply lines in modern nations are a son of a bitch. Blue America can't grow their own food, and Red America can barely manage subsistence farming without access to fuel which mostly has to pass through Blue America at some point or another.

Everyone has the capacity to screw each other over and when the tipping point comes (and it will) then there will have to be a massive reorganisation of who gets what from where and at what price.

I think you're right about continuing along this road, but when the liberals hold the keys to power and evidently will forever then Red America will inevitably rebel. By that stage the Southern states will virtually be Mestizo enclaves and the American economy will be in such shambles that DC will have trouble merely paying their soldiers, much less fielding them to put down a rebellion on either side.

At that point it wont be red vs blue. The nation will reorganise along racial lines and that will be the end of the American experiment.
(This post was last modified: 03-30-2018 11:08 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
03-30-2018 11:07 AM
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Post: #187
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-30-2018 11:07 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  
(03-30-2018 10:37 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  ...
(03-13-2018 08:58 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Regarding the analysis on why liberals would lose a civil war, if it came to that then people should be less worried about being shot by the other side and more worried about starving to death, dying of dehydration and sickness or freezing to death in winter.
If the big machine grinds to a halt due to some regional conflict then your biggest threat isn't the regional conflict, it's the absence of life in the big machine.

Would either side be stupid enough to try to stop food production? Or blow up oil refineries?

I honestly have no idea how a civil war in the US would be conducted from a military standpoint. I suppose it depends on which side the major authorities support?

I mean we are not really divided by states... we are divided between rural/suburban and Urban. So, even in conservative Georgia... they would have to lay siege to Atlanta and root out the liberals one by one. In Liberal states they would actually have to go into the rural areas and fight their own farmers house by house, which would virtually end their domestic food production. Honestly conservatives in those areas could wage a guerrilla war like the Iraqis did in 2004.

I think it's much more likely that we will continue along in this cold civil war until Liberals have such strong majorities that conservatives just give up and live with it.

Supply lines in modern nations are a son of a bitch. Blue America can't grow their own food, and Red America can barely manage subsistence farming without access to fuel which mostly has to pass through Blue America at some point or another.

Everyone has the capacity to screw each other over and when the tipping point comes (and it will) then there will have to be a massive reorganisation of who gets what from where and at what price.

I think you're right about continuing along this road, but when the liberals hold the keys to power and evidently will forever then Red America will inevitably rebel. By that stage the Southern states will virtually be Mestizo enclaves and the American economy will be in such shambles that DC will have trouble merely paying their soldiers, much less fielding them to put down a rebellion on either side.

At that point it wont be red vs blue. The nation will reorganise along racial lines and that will be the end of the American experiment.

I guarantee you that once it gets to that point (barring a miracle from Donald Trump), then you will see ethnic cleansing and emigration like you have never seen before!
03-30-2018 06:14 PM
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Post: #188
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-30-2018 11:07 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Supply lines in modern nations are a son of a bitch. Blue America can't grow their own food, and Red America can barely manage subsistence farming without access to fuel which mostly has to pass through Blue America at some point or another.
Everyone has the capacity to screw each other over and when the tipping point comes (and it will) then there will have to be a massive reorganisation of who gets what from where and at what price.
I think you're right about continuing along this road, but when the liberals hold the keys to power and evidently will forever then Red America will inevitably rebel. By that stage the Southern states will virtually be Mestizo enclaves and the American economy will be in such shambles that DC will have trouble merely paying their soldiers, much less fielding them to put down a rebellion on either side.
At that point it wont be red vs blue. The nation will reorganise along racial lines and that will be the end of the American experiment.

I just can't see red states going into open rebellion. I will explain why. The civil war in 1860 was caused because the wealthy people of the south had their livelyhood and their "assets" threatened.

The rich people of America both red and blue benefit from the culture conflict. Virtually all of them are cultural liberals.

Poor and middle class Americans cannot lead a rebellion alone. It has to be funded and organized. There is no group of people to do this. Therefore conservatives will be like Jews before the holocaust... they will either flee or be slaughtered... they will not fight.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2018 05:28 AM by EndsExpect.)
03-31-2018 05:27 AM
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Post: #189
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
When you start talking about using tactical nuclear weapons on areas you cannot control you are past the point of no return and negotiation is nothing short of a funeral for the other side. Thats not taking into consideration people who saw what happened and are filled with even more anger than before.

If my government were to nuke a town or city to make an example out of them I wouldn't be so eager to negotiate but more or less get a lot of rope ready to sling around their necks.
03-31-2018 06:15 AM
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Post: #190
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-31-2018 05:27 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  
(03-30-2018 11:07 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Supply lines in modern nations are a son of a bitch. Blue America can't grow their own food, and Red America can barely manage subsistence farming without access to fuel which mostly has to pass through Blue America at some point or another.
Everyone has the capacity to screw each other over and when the tipping point comes (and it will) then there will have to be a massive reorganisation of who gets what from where and at what price.
I think you're right about continuing along this road, but when the liberals hold the keys to power and evidently will forever then Red America will inevitably rebel. By that stage the Southern states will virtually be Mestizo enclaves and the American economy will be in such shambles that DC will have trouble merely paying their soldiers, much less fielding them to put down a rebellion on either side.
At that point it wont be red vs blue. The nation will reorganise along racial lines and that will be the end of the American experiment.

I just can't see red states going into open rebellion. I will explain why. The civil war in 1860 was caused because the wealthy people of the south had their livelyhood and their "assets" threatened.

The rich people of America both red and blue benefit from the culture conflict. Virtually all of them are cultural liberals.

Poor and middle class Americans cannot lead a rebellion alone. It has to be funded and organized. There is no group of people to do this. Therefore conservatives will be like Jews before the holocaust... they will either flee or be slaughtered... they will not fight.


That's not a good thing. It means the most likely outcome is a "mad max" scenario where society just collapses completely and we revert back to tribal and eventually city states.
03-31-2018 09:37 AM
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Post: #191
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-31-2018 05:27 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  
(03-30-2018 11:07 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Supply lines in modern nations are a son of a bitch. Blue America can't grow their own food, and Red America can barely manage subsistence farming without access to fuel which mostly has to pass through Blue America at some point or another.
Everyone has the capacity to screw each other over and when the tipping point comes (and it will) then there will have to be a massive reorganisation of who gets what from where and at what price.
I think you're right about continuing along this road, but when the liberals hold the keys to power and evidently will forever then Red America will inevitably rebel. By that stage the Southern states will virtually be Mestizo enclaves and the American economy will be in such shambles that DC will have trouble merely paying their soldiers, much less fielding them to put down a rebellion on either side.
At that point it wont be red vs blue. The nation will reorganise along racial lines and that will be the end of the American experiment.

I just can't see red states going into open rebellion. I will explain why. The civil war in 1860 was caused because the wealthy people of the south had their livelyhood and their "assets" threatened.

The rich people of America both red and blue benefit from the culture conflict. Virtually all of them are cultural liberals.

Poor and middle class Americans cannot lead a rebellion alone. It has to be funded and organized. There is no group of people to do this. Therefore conservatives will be like Jews before the holocaust... they will either flee or be slaughtered... they will not fight.

I'm not sure about that. Even poor Americans are rich by the standards of the typical freedom fighter. The average revolutionary was lucky to have a gun of any sort, much less the arsenal of the typical American gun aficionado. Large scale access to ammonium nitrate is also a game changer.

Personally I see Red America slowly becoming ungovernable. I don't think there will be a declaration made by this group or that. I don't think there will be hard and fast battle lines, at least not at first. I just think that Red America will become "Injun Territory" for anyone with a Federal paycheck, which will cause DC to clamp down on them even harder leading to a downward spiral that will collapse the ability of the US to maintain its empire and thus its power base.

The only thing stopping blood in the streets right now is the hail-Mary hope that things can be turned around and the whole of America that traditionalists love can be saved, but if it comes to pass that the average hick realises his guys will never have the numbers in DC ever again then he's not going to quietly wait to be liquidated. What you're going to see is some ATF goons getting killed in the sticks, and the FBI team they send out to investigate is going to get killed coming out of their motel door in the morning, possibly by someone else entirely, and you're going to see a rapid string of copycat attacks that make it virtually impossible for the feds to leave the city in anything other than platoon sized contingents.

I'm not sure that there are any precedents for this kind of dilemma. Most revolutions are carried out by what could be described as penniless, uneducated, starving dipshits. In the case of an American insurrection you'd be dealing with guys all the way from Cleetus with his bird-gun through to retired Rangers and former intelligence officers with the capacity to shoot out to 1000 yards or make IEDs from scratch with nothing more than scrap electronics and base chemical components.

Hell, most of the trigger men you'd be sending to deal with the problem would be sympathetic to the rebels, and I don't mean "would shoot them anyway", I mean "would be kicking supplies off the back of their truck at a pre-determined position".

It would be something unique and quite unpredictable.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2018 09:58 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
03-31-2018 09:56 AM
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PharaohRa Offline
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Post: #192
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-31-2018 05:27 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  
(03-30-2018 11:07 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Supply lines in modern nations are a son of a bitch. Blue America can't grow their own food, and Red America can barely manage subsistence farming without access to fuel which mostly has to pass through Blue America at some point or another.
Everyone has the capacity to screw each other over and when the tipping point comes (and it will) then there will have to be a massive reorganisation of who gets what from where and at what price.
I think you're right about continuing along this road, but when the liberals hold the keys to power and evidently will forever then Red America will inevitably rebel. By that stage the Southern states will virtually be Mestizo enclaves and the American economy will be in such shambles that DC will have trouble merely paying their soldiers, much less fielding them to put down a rebellion on either side.
At that point it wont be red vs blue. The nation will reorganise along racial lines and that will be the end of the American experiment.

I just can't see red states going into open rebellion. I will explain why. The civil war in 1860 was caused because the wealthy people of the south had their livelyhood and their "assets" threatened.

The rich people of America both red and blue benefit from the culture conflict. Virtually all of them are cultural liberals.

Poor and middle class Americans cannot lead a rebellion alone. It has to be funded and organized. There is no group of people to do this. Therefore conservatives will be like Jews before the holocaust... they will either flee or be slaughtered... they will not fight.

I disagree that it will head that way. From what I can see via the trends, white Americans will increasingly favor Trumpesque policies (even wealthy white Americans) and liberal attitudes will falter due to the shifting of the Overton window to the right. America will stay in piece, it is just whether it will be done peacefully or forcefully!
03-31-2018 09:56 AM
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Dusty Offline
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Post: #193
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
One way this could be resolved is if there are parts of states that secede and the remaining blue America states become powerless and want to secede from the nation and red America says “fine”.

There’s a precedent for parts of states seceding. West Virginia seceded from Virginia.

There’s a movement now for coastal California to secede from non coastal. A lot of people don’t realize that once you get out of the big metros in California, the rest of the State is very conservative. In October 2016 I drove about 45 minutes outside of the SF metro and I saw Trump signs everywhere, as well as “Lock her up” and “Hillary for prison” signs.

Now if the lib parts of California seceded, the conservative part would get two senators and however many electoral votes. Game changer.

Maybe it would trigger a domino effect. Upstate New York has always talked about seceding from New York because they have very different interests than NYC. If they see California do it, they might see it as their opportunity.

Fantasy at this point, but California dreaming.

Take care of those titties for me.
03-31-2018 11:58 AM
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Post: #194
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
We are all waiting for a large scale watershed event that will spark a huge response. That will probably be bankrupting the nation or devaluing the currency. It could be a huge earthquake or other natural disaster or an ebola style epedemic. Things would change drastically within days with banks closing and fuel running out.
04-01-2018 08:37 PM
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Post: #195
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
from Zero Hedge:

Recently Jack Minzey sent what was to be the final chapter in the long line of books and treatises which he had written. Jack passed away Sunday, 8 April 2018. Professionally, Jack was head of the Department of Education at Eastern Michigan University as well as a prolific author of numerous books, most of which were on the topic of Education and the Government role therein. This is the last of his works:

Civil War

How do civil wars happen?

Two or more sides disagree on who runs the country. And they can’t settle the question through elections because they don’t even agree that elections are how you decide who’s in charge. That’s the basic issue here. Who decides who runs the country? When you hate each other but accept the election results, you have a country. When you stop accepting election results, you have a countdown to a civil war.

The Mueller investigation is about removing President Trump from office and overturning the results of an election. We all know that. But it’s not the first time they’ve done this. The first time a Republican president was elected this century, they said he didn’t really win. The Supreme Court gave him the election. There’s a pattern here.

What do sure odds of the Democrats rejecting the next Republican president really mean? It means they don’t accept the results of any election that they don’t win. It means they don’t believe that transfers of power in this country are determined by elections.

That’s a civil war.

There’s no shooting. At least not unless you count the attempt to kill a bunch of Republicans at a charity baseball game practice. But the Democrats have rejected our system of government.

This isn’t dissent. It’s not disagreement. You can hate the other party. You can think they’re the worst thing that ever happened to the country. But then you work harder to win the next election. When you consistently reject the results of elections that you don’t win, what you want is a dictatorship.

Your very own dictatorship.

The only legitimate exercise of power in this country, according to Democrats, is its own. Whenever Republicans exercise power, it’s inherently illegitimate. The Democrats lost Congress. They lost the White House. So what did they do? They began trying to run the country through Federal judges and bureaucrats. Every time that a Federal judge issues an order saying that the President of the United States can’t scratch his own back without his say so, that’s the civil war.

Our system of government is based on the constitution, but that’s not the system that runs this country. The Democrat’s system is that any part of government that it runs gets total and unlimited power over the country.

If the Democrats are in the White House, then the president can do anything. And I mean anything. He can have his own amnesty for illegal aliens. He can fine you for not having health insurance. His power is unlimited. He’s a dictator.

But when Republicans get into the White House, suddenly the President can’t do anything. He isn’t even allowed to undo the illegal alien amnesty that his predecessor illegally invented. A Democrat in the White House has ‘discretion’ to completely decide every aspect of immigration policy. A Republican doesn’t even have the ‘discretion’ to reverse him. That’s how the game is played That’s how our country is run. Sad but true, although the left hasn’t yet won that particular fight.

When a Democrat is in the White House, states aren’t even allowed to enforce immigration law. But when a Republican is in the White House, states can create their own immigration laws. Under Obama, a state wasn’t allowed to go to the bathroom without asking permission. But under Trump, Jerry Brown can go around saying that California is an independent republic and sign treaties with other countries.

The Constitution has something to say about that.

Whether it’s Federal or State, Executive, Legislative or Judiciary, the left moves power around to run the country. If it controls an institution, then that institution is suddenly the supreme power in the land. This is what I call a moving dictatorship.

Donald Trump has caused the Shadow Government to come out of hiding: Professional government is a guild. Like medieval guilds. You can’t serve in if you’re not a member. If you haven’t been indoctrinated into its arcane rituals. If you aren’t in the club. And Trump isn’t in the club. He brought in a bunch of people who aren’t in the club with him.

Now we’re seeing what the pros do when amateurs try to walk in on them. They spy on them, they investigate them and they send them to jail. They use the tools of power to bring them down.

That’s not a free country.

It’s not a free country when FBI agents who support Hillary take out an ‘insurance policy’ against Trump winning the election. It’s not a free country when Obama officials engage in massive unmasking of the opposition. It’s not a free country when the media responds to the other guy winning by trying to ban the conservative media that supported him from social media. It’s not a free country when all of the above collude together to overturn an election because the guy who wasn’t supposed to win did.

Have no doubt, we’re in a civil war between conservative volunteer government and a leftist Democrat professional government.
06-04-2018 11:43 AM
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Post: #196
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
Speaking as someone with good knowledge of the military, in regards to using U.S. troops to put down U.S. citizens in a right led incident, it wouldn't happen. You would split the military not right down the middle but something like 70-30 percent in favor of conservatives. At least in my experience discussing politics with everyone around base. I remember on election day we all stayed up watching the returns. Every time a state was called for Trump you could hear the whoops and hollers ringing from all around the quad from every barracks. The officer Corps is a somewhat closer split, but most officers don't hold that much sway over their grunts.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
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06-18-2018 04:26 PM
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Dusty Offline
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Post: #197
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
A US Congressman from California:


Suggesting the US Miltary would nuke its people if they refused to hand over their guns if a gun ban passed.

He’s getting lit up on Twatter.

Scott Adams:


Take care of those titties for me.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2018 05:09 PM by Dusty.)
11-16-2018 05:04 PM
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Post: #198
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(11-16-2018 05:04 PM)Dusty Wrote:  A US Congressman from California:


Suggesting the US Miltary would nuke its people if they refused to hand over their guns if a gun ban passed.

He’s getting lit up on Twatter.

Scott Adams:




Before the military, it'll be local police, then state police, and so on, that are called upon to confiscate guns. So maybe the good ol' boys in the Army and Marines and National Guard won't attack Joe Gun Owner, but the cops sure as hell will. It'll start there. I think this was posted elsewhere, but it's relevant here:


Maryland officers serving "red flag" gun removal order fatally shoot armed man

Quote: FERNDALE, Md. -- Two police officers ordered to remove firearms from a house on a "red flag" protective order fatally shot an armed man Monday morning in Ferndale, Maryland, police said. Anne Arundel County Police arrived at the house at 5:17 a.m. to remove guns from the home under a new law that temporarily allows for the seizure of firearms if a person shows "red flags" that they are a danger to themselves or others, CBS Baltimore reports.

A man, later identified by police as 61-year-old Gary Willis, answered his door with a gun in his hand, Anne Arundel County Police Sgt. Jacklyn Davis said.

Sgt. Davis said the man put the gun down. But then, according to a police press release, Willis "became irate" when officers attempted to serve the order. Willis picked the weapon up again, "a fight ensued over the gun," and a shot was fired, Davis said. The first shot didn't strike anyone, but the officers then fatally shot the man, Sgt. Davis said.
11-16-2018 05:43 PM
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CynicalContrarian Offline
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Post: #199
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
Military aside & nukes aside (the fuck Salwell...?).

Does the average American even have either the cardio or the concentration required for an actual civil war?
Sure, we're seeing plenty of examples of small scale civil disturbance thanks to Antifa agitators.
Yet an actual, full on civil war? One that requires folk to log out of FarceBook & put down their 'smart' phones?

Basic combat training is pretty tough going.
Full on combat training is then something else.
Even that must pale to a legit two way firing range.

If half of America can neither walk to their local Wal-Mart without the aid of scooters or is easily offended by mere words.
Bullets wizzing by their heads is not going to result in a total war type scenario.

One doesn't simply dabble in a civil war on the weekends LARP style & go back to work on Monday as if nothing happened.
A real civil war (2.0 or otherwise) would bring America to a grinding halt.
I don't see enough Americans having the grit & determination to resort to combat WW2 partizan style, for any significant length of time.
More likely - more civil disturbance here & there, but never a full civil war that the fake news media may be salivating over.

*Edit.
& for the sake of pragmatism. The above could be applied just as readily to the average Brit, Aussie or Canuck I would imagine.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2018 06:14 PM by CynicalContrarian.)
11-16-2018 06:11 PM
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Post: #200
The American Troubles
(11-16-2018 06:11 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  Military aside & nukes aside (the fuck Salwell...?).

Does the average American even have either the cardio or the concentration required for an actual civil war?
Sure, we're seeing plenty of examples of small scale civil disturbance thanks to Antifa agitators.
Yet an actual, full on civil war? One that requires folk to log out of FarceBook & put down their 'smart' phones?

Basic combat training is pretty tough going.
Full on combat training is then something else.
Even that must pale to a legit two way firing range.

If half of America can neither walk to their local Wal-Mart without the aid of scooters or is easily offended by mere words.
Bullets wizzing by their heads is not going to result in a total war type scenario.

One doesn't simply dabble in a civil war on the weekends LARP style & go back to work on Monday as if nothing happened.
A real civil war (2.0 or otherwise) would bring America to a grinding halt.
I don't see enough Americans having the grit & determination to resort to combat WW2 partizan style, for any significant length of time.
More likely - more civil disturbance here & there, but never a full civil war that the fake news media may be salivating over.

*Edit.
& for the sake of pragmatism. The above could be applied just as readily to the average Brit, Aussie or Canuck I would imagine.

It might look more like the Irish Troubles, at least at first.

People of the same race, ethnicity, religion, and language begin to gather into their own exclusive neighborhoods and regions and begin to make them "no go" zones for the police and other parts of the government. People would have to toughen up as resources became scarce.

Of course, as things deteriorate, it could start getting a good deal nastier - some nightmare mash up of the Finnish*, Yugoslavian, Rwandan, and the coming South African civil wars.

* The Finnish Civil War was astoundingly brutal from what little I have been able to gather. It is difficult to get accounts of since the normally taciturn Finns really clam up when the subject is discussed.
11-16-2018 06:48 PM
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