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The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
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Dr Mantis Toboggan Offline
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Post: #301
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-20-2019 11:11 AM)Dusty Wrote:  
(03-20-2019 10:58 AM)heavy Wrote:  The idea of a civil war seems crazy until I read headlines like this on Drudge regarding new Lib dem candidate Andrew Yang...

Wants Penalties For 'Fake News'

I love when liberals mask their meanings.

"fines", "penalties", "taxes" = "jail" or "prison"

Not to mention that the Democrat candidates are talking about eliminating the electoral college and expanding the number of SCOTUS Members so they can pack the court.

If this happens, the country will be run by a couple large liberal cities, and red America will be completely disenfranchised with no meaningful representation.

The democrats plan is to just crush red America.

Yes and don't forget also the shitcanning of the Tenth Amendment (actually been going on for a long time now) which specifically states (paraphrasing) that any matter not specifically assigned to the federal government by the Constitution is up to the states...in other words New York can legalize abortion and gay marriage if they want but they can't force Texas to...it was included in the Bill of Rights to prevent states from forcing their values on one another but is largely ignored today.

I got my Magnum condoms, I got my wad of hundreds, I'm ready to plow!
03-21-2019 09:09 AM
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Dulceácido Offline
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Post: #302
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-21-2019 09:09 AM)Dr Mantis Toboggan Wrote:  Yes and don't forget also the shitcanning of the Tenth Amendment (actually been going on for a long time now) which specifically states (paraphrasing) that any matter not specifically assigned to the federal government by the Constitution is up to the states...in other words New York can legalize abortion and gay marriage if they want but they can't force Texas to...it was included in the Bill of Rights to prevent states from forcing their values on one another but is largely ignored today.

You stated it nicely and spot on. There are a lot of things the average American does not understand about federal law.

The states are in complete control until the Supreme Court makes a decision saying otherwise. It is not in the interest of The Court to meddle in the affairs of the states. If the states can solve the problem, then the Supreme Court has no incentive to act. In fact, take a look at what the Supreme Court has done in the last few years... Why have they not decided on personal jurisdiction cases regarding the internet? It's because the state's supreme courts have rendered decisions that are fair and just--the Supreme Court does not need to get involved, and they won't.

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03-22-2019 02:57 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #303
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
Commerce clause>10th Amendment.

The end.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
03-22-2019 03:53 AM
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Dulceácido Offline
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Post: #304
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-22-2019 03:53 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Commerce clause>10th Amendment.

The end.

Yeah... That would be nice if it were that simple.

From here I'll direct you to the 14th Amendment (Due Process). It's fucking complicated. Trust me.

"How do I hale Leonard into a California court in order to recover damages from him slandering the US judicial system, as a citizen of Australia?"

See? This is complicated. Lots of shit going on here...

I'm not a businessman; I'm a business, Man
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2019 04:17 AM by Dulceácido.)
03-22-2019 04:07 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #305
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-22-2019 04:07 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 03:53 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Commerce clause>10th Amendment.

The end.

Yeah... That would be nice if it were that simple.

From here I'll direct you to the 14th Amendment (Due Process). It's fucking complicated. Trust me.

I'm not going by the letter of the law. I'm going by the means the SCOTUS has used to turn the union of states into a federal tyranny.

All federal gun laws and the ATF itself. Obamacare. A billion miles of federal red tape on anything that could conceivably be bought and sold.

All built on the commerce clause and all done under SCOTUS benches that were balanced or conservative leaning. The tyranny is baked into the Constitution itself. You cannot issue self-limiting power. It's a self defeating fallacy.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2019 04:20 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
03-22-2019 04:17 AM
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Dulceácido Offline
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Post: #306
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-22-2019 04:17 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 04:07 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 03:53 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Commerce clause>10th Amendment.

The end.

Yeah... That would be nice if it were that simple.

From here I'll direct you to the 14th Amendment (Due Process). It's fucking complicated. Trust me.

I'm not going by the letter of the law. I'm going by the means the SCOTUS has used to turn the union of states into a federal tyranny.

All federal gun laws and the ATF itself. Obamacare. A billion miles of federal red tape on anything that could conceivably be bought and sold.

All built on the commerce clause and all done under SCOTUS benches that were balanced or conservative leaning. The tyranny is baked into the Constitution itself. You cannot issue self-limiting power. It's a self defeating fallacy.

Okay, there are some things you need to understand... The UCC is the governing body for the sale of goods. That is true. Period. However, freedom to contract amongst individuals (especially those who are stupid and don't understand the UCC) is governed by common law.

You don't get to "not go by the letter of the law." The fucking law is the law. And that doesn't mean that you can't change it. The thing Americans don't understand is The law is not made by the judiciary.
The law is made by the legislators.

I've no idea where you went and flew off the handle on guns and bullshit or whatever. I'm sure it fits in somewhere here, and I'm prolly a supporter, but all I'm just laying out the REAL legal issues.

I'm kinda puzzled that you speak with such sureness and authority, yet it's not true. Do you know what the Uniform Commercial Code is? Seriously? Do you know that people are free to contract outside of the UCC? I'm reading your gun shit above and it's kinda weird... It's like you, clearly, don't understand our laws. You are going off about some bullshit. What is your end game here?

I'm not a businessman; I'm a business, Man
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2019 04:51 AM by Dulceácido.)
03-22-2019 04:31 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #307
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
I'm explaining how the laws have been enacted and how history had played out on these issues.

Explain to me for example under the 10th amendment why you have federal gun laws.

Surely anyone can front up to the SCOTUS and say "second amendment, tenth amendment, where's my machine gun?"

I have no agenda. I'm just sick of conservatives quoting irrelevant laws that never seem to stick and imaginary uprisings against tyranny that never seem to manifest. It's nothing personal. People who care about liberty simply have to get their head out of the clouds and start living in reality.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2019 05:10 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
03-22-2019 05:08 AM
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DChambers Offline
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Post: #308
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-20-2019 06:04 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  
(03-17-2019 11:49 AM)DChambers Wrote:  I forgot to mention something that also might come into play. The insanely high turnover rate among first time enlistees. Of my peer group that came in four years ago there are exactly three of us out of over fifty or so that reenlisted. The knowledge drain that happens after every deployment is ridiculous. Platoons and companies have to start back at rock bottom usually and gear up for a year before they are fit to deploy again. One of the reasons for this drain is the lack of competitive pay, if you want socialism just look at the military, the lack of promotion opportunities, and the shear amount of annoying bullshit that everyone, especially the infantry has to deal with. Some of us like the lifestyle and reenlist, some of us still feel it is a duty, or some of us use it to get ahead and just plan on getting out a little later with extra college done while on active duty and making a solid paycheck. However this is a very small proportion of those who stay it. Why I mention this is because a lot of the people you get who stay in and make it to Staff NCO level who are calling the shots are the people who are indoctrinated and institutionalized, or the people who don't have the ambition and drive to make it out in the real world and see the military as a safe bet with a pension. The military butters their bread and they are unlikely to do anything against what Washington says. Even among the lower enlisted E3-E5 there are problems. The promotion system is......far from perfect to put it mildly. A lot is based on what people think of you instead of how good you do your job or how smart you are. It is based of a composite score, with proficiency and conduct marks that are almost arbitrarily assigned by a command, among some other factors. So a huge development I've seen is females getting promoted ahead of their male counterparts, without good reason. I have seen almost 100% of females make unusually high pros and cons, and get a promotion recommendation as soon as they rate one. It took me two and a half years of hard work to make E4, with an very high cutting score, one of the three girls who just got to the company nine months ago already picked it up with a similarly high score. I suppose one good thing about a lot of people getting out after one enlistment is, there is a horde of Military veterans who are out now but would form the nucleus of armed militia groups in the advent of a civil war.

Thanks for your service. Most people will never do it. You are part of something important. I applaud you for re-enlisting. Another thing most people will not do, exactly as you stated. I encourage you to stick with it, as long as you are enjoying the job. The pay will level out as you make rank and if you pick up some specialty skills or volunteer for hazardous duty, you'll see a pay increase there, too. Not to mention, the more specialized you become, you'll start seeing re-enlistment bonuses on top of all that incentive pay. The more skills you acquire, the more you will pull away from your peers and you'll be promoted more quickly. That's my advice.

If you pick the "take the college money and run" route, there's no shame in that and you'll have a leg up on your new peers when it comes to filling out job applications because you have military service under your belt. A word of caution: depending on what you want to do in life, a college degree is hardly worth the paper it is printed on these days. Unless you're doing something like engineering or computer science--something along those lines, the "training" you get in college is practically meaningless. Be very wary of thinking you're gonna just jump out of the service, get the easiest degree you can find, and go land a great job. As soon as you start thinking things are gonna be easy after you leave the service--you've already fucked up.

You make some unqualified observations about the way people are promoted in the military. Some of the things you say are, indeed, fact. On other things you are mistaken. It's not a ding on you--there is no reason for you to understand these things as an E-4--but your perception of things, although it seems reasonable to you with your limited scope of experience, is not accurate.

The ranking boards that your senior NCO's rule over are very complicated. Of course, everyone wants to get their service member promoted over the others, so there's that. I'd be lying if I said there was no favoritism involved. Even in the board itself. Some NCO's carry more weight than other NCO's of the same rank, just because of their reputation and the command's perception of them as leaders, and also because of seniority/experience. A brand new NCO (theoretically) should have the same influence on the board, but get the fuck outta here. Think about it.

Another thing, you have to look at the bigger picture. Who is up for promotion? How many times have they been up for promotion? If I rank a young new guy my number one E-6 at the command (presumably for merit), to whom did I just give a head-shot because it's their last chance at promotion before they get forced out after 16 years of service? No retirement. Yeah, the dude may have outperformed the other dude, but he has 3 more chances for promotion whereas the other person is going to be forced out of the military after devoting half their lives to the service... See? It's complicated. It sucks, for sure, but that's the way it works.

That's the life of an enlisted dude who is career military. If you want easy promotion, become an officer.

Thank you for your support. I've never been one to go around and try and brag about my service, mainly because at this point most of us are simply sitting around training and twirling our thumbs and haven't done much in the way of real service. Which is a good thing to be honest, it means the U.S. isn't involved in to many unproductive wars right now!

As far as the college goes I still have some time to hammer out exactly what sort of major I want, but I do intend to get a masters degree and either move into academia, the political field, law, or economics. I had planned on doing an enlisted to commissioning program before leaving the service. You do see a lot of guys get right out after 4 years with no plan and end up either working a shitty job because they didn't plan ahead right, or become a cop/ security guard. There's running jokes all the time for that stuff.

I will say though that I don't think I'm unqualified to talk about the promotions process for upper enlisted though. I'm a huge history and general knowledge nerd, and I have a good relationship with a lot of Staff and O. I looked up most of the processes a long time ago and spoke with people about it. Although for the upper enlisted the promotions process doesn't have as nearly a direct effect here on the ground level as they do on the Company and Battalion on up.

One of the discussions we'e had before is exactly on what you brought up as an example, promotion based entirely on merit as in the case of the new -6 vs. promotion based on time in service for the lifer. It's a conundrum. However, the problem that we do see, and although the command might not always like to admit it even the PFCs and Privates are able to see when something is not running the way it should, is that there are people who will stay in and rank up promotions based soley on their time in service and their status as a careerist. Just because you have been in for 16 years doesn't necessarily make you good at your job, you can carry the rank and billet but if you suck you suck. So absolutely promote on merit, incorporate some peer reviews into the system, if you pass over competent dudes because the time in service isn't there then you will start to drive the best men for the job out of the military because of a lack of prospects. Why would a hard working and smart man stay in a system where he will get passed up for promotion simply because someone else has seniority by time in service? He will and does get out and take his skills and his drive somewhere to the outside world where he will make far more money than the military could ever pay. The death of meritocracy is killing the military's retention.

Anyways this topic doesn't really pertain to the thread subject anymore, but if you have any questions or just want to bullshit feel free to pm me. I'm going to go try and avoid the long reach of the Corps green weenie for the weekend, as a senior of mine once said when I asked why the Marine Corps is always trying to fuck people, "Well you see, the Corps is a voracious lover, and her and her green weenie are always looking for new asses to plunder." Have a great weekend everyone!

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
Thomas Jefferson
03-23-2019 07:42 AM
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Dulceácido Offline
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Post: #309
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
(03-23-2019 07:42 AM)DChambers Wrote:  Thank you for your support. I've never been one to go around and try and brag about my service, mainly because at this point most of us are simply sitting around training and twirling our thumbs and haven't done much in the way of real service. Which is a good thing to be honest, it means the U.S. isn't involved in to many unproductive wars right now!

As far as the college goes I still have some time to hammer out exactly what sort of major I want, but I do intend to get a masters degree and either move into academia, the political field, law, or economics. I had planned on doing an enlisted to commissioning program before leaving the service. You do see a lot of guys get right out after 4 years with no plan and end up either working a shitty job because they didn't plan ahead right, or become a cop/ security guard. There's running jokes all the time for that stuff.

I will say though that I don't think I'm unqualified to talk about the promotions process for upper enlisted though. I'm a huge history and general knowledge nerd, and I have a good relationship with a lot of Staff and O. I looked up most of the processes a long time ago and spoke with people about it. Although for the upper enlisted the promotions process doesn't have as nearly a direct effect here on the ground level as they do on the Company and Battalion on up.

One of the discussions we'e had before is exactly on what you brought up as an example, promotion based entirely on merit as in the case of the new -6 vs. promotion based on time in service for the lifer. It's a conundrum. However, the problem that we do see, and although the command might not always like to admit it even the PFCs and Privates are able to see when something is not running the way it should, is that there are people who will stay in and rank up promotions based soley on their time in service and their status as a careerist. Just because you have been in for 16 years doesn't necessarily make you good at your job, you can carry the rank and billet but if you suck you suck. So absolutely promote on merit, incorporate some peer reviews into the system, if you pass over competent dudes because the time in service isn't there then you will start to drive the best men for the job out of the military because of a lack of prospects. Why would a hard working and smart man stay in a system where he will get passed up for promotion simply because someone else has seniority by time in service? He will and does get out and take his skills and his drive somewhere to the outside world where he will make far more money than the military could ever pay. The death of meritocracy is killing the military's retention.

Anyways this topic doesn't really pertain to the thread subject anymore, but if you have any questions or just want to bullshit feel free to pm me. I'm going to go try and avoid the long reach of the Corps green weenie for the weekend, as a senior of mine once said when I asked why the Marine Corps is always trying to fuck people, "Well you see, the Corps is a voracious lover, and her and her green weenie are always looking for new asses to plunder." Have a great weekend everyone!

Yes, you'e right, kinda de-railed the topic. I'm happy to discuss this with you in PM. We've created a new thread in the thread and that's not cool, so, I'll desist.

I didn't mean it as insulting when I said your opinion is "unqualified." I can also tell you a story of when I saw this very thing happen. We ranked a person on merit higher than a person who was at her limit and last chance for promotion. He was brand new, first time up for promotion, but a superstar. Ranked him above the girl who was on her last chance for promotion. Guess what? He did NOT get promoted because he didn't have seniority and insufficient time in grade. She, who had all those things, lost the promotion and because of how I ranked her and was forced out of the service. Everyone lost.

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03-23-2019 08:43 AM
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robreke Offline
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Post: #310
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
Missouri recently proposed a state law nullifying any federal gun control laws. As of now it's being debated by the state Congress. Let's hope it passes.

We need to see more moves like this by other states to move the Overton Window in the direction of Patriot-America:

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/missour...z5l7K7iREB

The proposed bill has teeth with tough language:

[Image: Text-from-MO-SB-367.jpg]

If you're in Missouri, it wouldn't hurt to let your politicians know they need to gather up their balls and carry this one over the finish line.

- One planet orbiting a star. Billions of stars in the galaxy. Billions of galaxies in the universe. Approach.

#BallsWin
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2019 07:06 PM by robreke.)
04-14-2019 07:05 PM
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rpg Offline
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Post: #311
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
We need a re issuance of the DOI and a reconstruction government put in place. There are many flaws in the constitution and those can be grounds for a new one.
I think the feds would completely FREAK THE FUCK OUT at the attempt to install a reconstruction authority even though the founding fathers did it with good reason after the ills England perpetrated.
04-14-2019 09:17 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #312
RE: The path to Civil War 2 (USA)
Current America suffers under a far greater burden of tyranny than colonial America ever did.

I really hope that the sparks over there begin a brushfire that will loosen the grip of the elites all over the West.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
04-14-2019 09:56 PM
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