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Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
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Jaihoo Offline
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Thumbs Down Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
Downer thread ahead, proceed only if you want to get bummed out. It's not my story, it's a hypothetical tale, an experiment in what-if.

So, let me start. I'll try to construct this tale from the earliest beginnings of a man - when he was a boy. This hypothetical boy was just like any other boy, full of energy, life, vigor. Even though this might sound like romanticized fable made from selected memories, it's based on video evidence.

Our hero found a batch of VHS tapes in his parents house, and he gave them a watch over the weekend. What he saw was a mix of reactionary joy and depression. He saw himself, young, lively, energetic and confident. He saw a little person with big smile and big dreams, big laughs and passion for his favorite sport, basketball. This 10 year old boy had no worries in the world.

But as the VHS tapes came to an end, our hypothetical guy started to think. He sat on his chair and started to recollect his thoughts on what he saw. This was the beginning of a downward spiral into the deep abyss. Also, this was not the first time our hypothetical guy had these thoughts. It was merely stronger this time due to the juxtaposition from the VHS tapes and all the memories that were triggered.

So who is this hypothetical guy, why is he talking all this sentimental talk, and what's up with the dumb thread title, what does he mean, this hypothetical guy, destined to lose? A man is in charge of his destiny!

The hypothetical story begins, or should I say, takes a abrupt turn probably 2-3 years after these wonderful VHS tapes were made. This is around the time when our hypothetical boy started his high school. It was around that time that he realized his parents are really having a bad time with each other.

He started noticing that every day there's nervousness in the air. He started to seek refuge. He found it playing basketball, playing pickup instead of going to school. It was at the playground competing with strangers and friends where he felt confident. He would skip school often. His grades were utter shit. He didn't care and strangely, neither did the parents.

One day, the hypothetical recollects, he got home from school, and parents started to bicker about his bad grades. He said that he'll improve, promised to change. His father started to yell at him and slap him across the face, and when the mother started to yell as well, our boy felt kinda intimidated by the sudden outburst of care about his school / grades. He even remembers a scene, as he was crying in front of his parents, his father slapping him one more time across the face and saying "you won't be shit, Mark (fictional name) will make it to the big league one day making millions and you won't be shit".

One might say these words were harsh, but in retrospect, what if they were actually right? Mark didn't make it to the big leagues, but our boy certainly is treading the "won't be shit" areas.

During the high school years, our boy would come home and see his parents yell and swear at each other on a daily basis. Every 5 days or so, these fights would end up being sessions, 5-6-7 hours in the living room, yelling, accusing each other of failing the relationship, you didn't do this, I did that, sobbing, silence, yelling again. Our boy was almost always "called in" to join and contribute, I guess.

Every time our boy needed a ride to school, he would listen to beautiful words one parents had to say about the other. For example, if the father would drive the boy to or from school, he would get a lecture on all the things mom did wrong. They started to talk about divorce, but they never got thru with it. All that remained was bitter talk.

Oh and by the way, they divorced physically by making a literal wall that splits the house in two. Our boy learned the meaning of the wall way before Trump used it as one of the main focuses of his campaign.

In his 20's, our boy (still a boy, yes) found a new hobby. Basketball was forgotten and it was replaced by a car. He would roam around in his car for hours and hours, finding great joy being confined in that little space, listening to whatever music he wants as loud as he wants, or just talking to himself about his woes. Yes, talking to himself, as in talking, not imagining the talk.

At the age of 24 he decided to move out of the house, since the bickering and occasional yelling between the parents continued and it was more and more repulsive each time. Accusations who made more money (blue collar working class family), who's entitled to the house and the best of it, listening to his father complaining about the last time he had sex. All of this, combined with the boy's mother spending more time with her sister than at home.

When he moved out, he also hit the gym. Our boy was a skinny fat dude but after couple months of gym he got in the best shape of his post-high-school life. He met a girl. Traditional girl, wonderful girl. They moved in together very fast, after half a year or so. They didn't have stellar jobs, not much money, but it just worked out for some reason, the memories of those days and the modest life full of optimism and love is beautiful to reminisce about.

Visiting the became a chore, but the girlfriend got used to it. It was always done in sequence, first we go to the mother's part of the house, then we go to the father's part of the house, 10 feet away. In contrast to this, the girlfriend's family was very traditional and tight knit. Visiting her family was a soothing experience.

Our boy landed a good job 2 years ago. Good job. It was the best job of his life and he made nice money during the time he worked there. But being born to lose meant that this very company faced a lawsuit from competitor and had to cut down on employees, so our boy lost his job. He saved some money in the bank, but the problem is that our boy began to question his luck.

While the money was coming in, our boy thought that he finally caught a break in his life. But as usual, he was wrong. And the years piled up. His relationship was 5 years old. No ring yet. Our boy doesn't like responsibilities, probably. His girlfriend started to ask about their future, about starting a family. Our boy doesn't have the courage to go forward with it. He spends a lot of time stressing about sjw'ism and trump and dumb hollywood and aipac and jq and all of that cool esoteric stuff. But life keeps marching forward. His girlfriend's brother is becoming a father soon. Many of her friends from her hometown are parents already.

Our smart boy often makes the remark about how most of them are "leeching while working silly government jobs". Most of them are employed by the state. Maybe Stefan Molyneux would ridicule them, so would our boy, but the fact remains that they are moving ahead in life while our boy is pontificating about the great free market future and optimal size of the government. Wow, such a smart boy.

Also, one thing to say about this hypothetical boy. In his young days, high school days, playing basketball all day days, he had no trouble making friends. He knew a lot of people. As he entered his 20's, and his levels of cynicism and jadedness went up, this ability slowly dissolved. Our boy is now at a very interesting point.

He is 30 years old and, hypothetically speaking, if he had a wedding today, he wouldn't have anyone to call to be his best man. Not a single person comes to mind. He successfully pushed everyone away from him and his contacts are limited to less than a dozen of various levels of acquaintances. His phone battery lasts for a week. He doesn't want to make motorcycle friends. He likes to be alone. His father is exactly like that.

When one of those rare acquaintances calls him, he rarely picks up. He doesn't want to be bothered. He only calls back when he feels in the mood to talk. Great social skills. A year ago, his high school buddies found his number and called him for a reunion. Out of 31 people from the class, 29 shown up. Our boy was one of two who didn't show up. Our boy is concerned with someone seeing him mediocre. His hair is thinning and he stresses a lot over it. Because his father is bald. He doesn't want to be like his father. Could it be that he's slowly turning into him?

Our boy also has this paranoia of sounding, in a literal way, like his father. Sometimes when he talks, he often stops himself because he feels as if he's hearing his father talk. So he makes a conscious effort to change his tone or cadence. Our boy's father led a semi-irresponsible life, but he managed to pull through because he inherited the house from his father. Our boy is renting for years now. He doesn't want to go into debt.

Also, our boy had many plans and aspirations what to do with his life, but every single idea he had was shot down by the voices in his head, as every single idea seemed either futile, childish, lame, boring or he would feel ashamed of the idea 2 days later. Our boy wants to live under all the radars so he can't be judged, compared to, or even mentioned by anyone. Also, he doesn't want to get seen by anyone because he'll be bald, like his father. One thing he also feels is having kids would be a problem, because he would have to deny them the privilege of grandpa and granma. You see, our boy has a very weird relationship with his parents now. Of course there's no more shouting, but the situation is just as weird and exhausting to keep "civil" and "jolly"...and he feels like a complete bastard of thinking such thoughts - yet he can't help it. He can't fathom the idea of having his kids experience the rift and toxicness between his parents. Also, he is afraid to have kids before having money, as he doesn't want to be a bum father.

If this hypothetical boy was a real person, what would you say to him?
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2017 05:28 AM by Jaihoo.)
02-14-2017 05:18 AM
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
I would say to you,


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02-14-2017 06:13 AM
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Jaihoo Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
If the boy goes down this route, I will presume he will end up a drug addict, or some kind of complete degenerative self destructive effort.
02-14-2017 06:25 AM
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The Beast1 Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
(02-14-2017 06:25 AM)Jaihoo Wrote:  If the boy goes down this route, I will presume he will end up a drug addict, or some kind of complete degenerative self destructive effort.

Can you at least give a TL DR summary? No way i'm reading that wall of text.

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(This post was last modified: 02-14-2017 06:44 AM by The Beast1.)
02-14-2017 06:43 AM
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Swell Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
Yep, only thing i read on this thread, fuck bitches, acquire currency.

"to thrive in that hunger." -Balkan
02-14-2017 07:14 AM
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TheFinalEpic Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
Some people like to lose more than they like to win. Perhaps for the pity party that comes with it. A lot of western men and women fall into this category. Until the day you love winning and think of nothing else, you probably won't be a winner.

"Money over bitches, nigga stick to the script." - Jay-Z
They gonna love me for my ambition.
02-14-2017 07:16 AM
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lavidaloca Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
I mean the guy hasn't even really lost yet. Hes what 30 years old, has a good job, has a solid girlfriend (potentially soon to be wife). He comes from a disfunctional family which honestly is far from a small minority these days and dare I say a majority in some areas.

All he lacks is male friendship which admittedly is probably is tough. But friendships can be made any given year. Especially now as hes not yet at the old phase or the married with children phase. Other men in their late 20s to mid 30s are still somewhat free aside from a lot of work and busy schedules they still have time to meet up, hang out with their buddies.

I don't even really see this guy as that big of loser. He just doesn't have male friends which can be resolved. Join different group activities, travel etc and i'm sure this guy would make some friends.
02-14-2017 08:50 AM
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
Lavidaloca's post provides a nice TLDR/too long didn't read summary for those of you who don't want to read it.

Quote:If this hypothetical boy was a real person, what would you say to him?

He needs to decide what he wants to do with his life. Does he want to get married? Have kids? Does he want to focus on his career and making money? Make friends? Travel? Be minimalist and live in the woods?

I would tell him to figure out what he wants to do and then situation everything in his life to achieve that. It might take anywhere from 1 year to 10 years to get there but if he sticks to his goals he can achieve them.
02-14-2017 01:06 PM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
Tell him not to be a pussy.

He had a rough childhood, so did many.

The past doesn't equal the future.

You are alive, young, healthy and make coin.

You are in the luckiest, richest, most fortunate people in the world, the top 1%.

Now man up and go fucking do something and stop sookiung about the past.
02-14-2017 07:56 PM
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
I think he is not in such bad situation. He has loyal girl and stable income.
I would say, that only opportunity at this moment is to start a family, so he would get his purpose. Otherwise he will lose his girl and a lot of problems will start after that, until he reaches the bottom. And when he realizes he should do something about it, the best years of his life will be gone and he won´t be able to do anything - start family or be succesful in some area.
02-15-2017 02:27 PM
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cascadecombo Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
Sell everthing fly to india and become a bollywood star.
02-16-2017 01:20 AM
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
(02-14-2017 06:25 AM)Jaihoo Wrote:  If the boy goes down this route, I will presume he will end up a drug addict, or some kind of complete degenerative self destructive effort.

Well, either "This boy" will get it or not. there is a wealth of literature out there on how to improve your life. Same as the forum. I'd recommend "This boy" to read through it, and possibly ask for help himself.

Otherwise, let "The Boy" figure shit out on his own. People can't get offered help, they have to seek the help, or else they wont take the advice(or even appreciate it)

If "this boy" is you, you need to man up and ask for help

If "this boy" is not you, then point him here(or other places), let him ask for help advice. if he doesn't then he is one of those people destined. . . .to find things out through experience, not from us.

There are times when you need to go through hardship before you can accept any kind of answer.

Isaiah 4:1
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017 02:00 AM by CJ_W.)
02-16-2017 01:53 AM
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torridon747 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
TL;only read part of it

Your destiny is in your own hands. If you're an able bodied male with an IQ of 95+ the world is your oyster. Any other conclusion is absurd. Men don't let the world break them, they bend the world to their will.
02-17-2017 05:22 PM
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Lion of Judah Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
Sorry, but I didn't read anything that bad here. Am I missing something?
02-18-2017 02:38 PM
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Chevalier De Seingalt Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
(02-14-2017 05:18 AM)Jaihoo Wrote:  If this hypothetical boy was a real person, what would you say to him?

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02-18-2017 11:45 PM
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WattsWand Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
Nice writing skills. Nothing really bad to complain actually... I would tell you to join a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu gym (friendship and health), learn to play an instrument, join group activities, build an online business for some extra money and see where it takes you, buy a cheap project car to restore it and sell it (possibility of making male friends + money). Forget about all the past-people who you fear being judged by (school).
02-27-2017 07:33 PM
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Khan Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
I would say to this hypothetical guy that I don't believe in destiny, or any other new-age fatalist bullshit. Neither should him.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017 05:03 AM by Khan.)
02-28-2017 05:02 AM
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XPQ22 Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
It sounds a lot like our hero here isn't any victim of "destiny", but has got himself seriously lost in what I believe one forum member called "the mire of the self."

If he wants to "win", then he must behave like the winner he wants to be. It will feel strange at first, even fraudulent. That's normal. But if he chooses not to behave in the ways that he didn't like about his father, he will simply never become him. Never.

The swamp can sometimes feels like home, but there really isn't much good reason to keep going back in.

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(This post was last modified: 03-02-2017 02:05 PM by XPQ22.)
03-02-2017 02:03 PM
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Paracelsus Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
(03-02-2017 02:03 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  It sounds a lot like our hero here isn't any victim of "destiny", but has got himself seriously lost in what I believe one forum member called "the mire of the self."

If he wants to "win", then he must behave like the winner he wants to be. It will feel strange at first, even fraudulent. That's normal. But if he chooses not to behave in the ways that he didn't like about his father, he will simply never become him. Never.

This pretty much hits it on the head. But I would like to expand on it:

Quote:Our boy landed a good job 2 years ago. Good job. It was the best job of his life and he made nice money during the time he worked there. But being born to lose meant that this very company faced a lawsuit from competitor and had to cut down on employees, so our boy lost his job. He saved some money in the bank, but the problem is that our boy began to question his luck.

Notice how our boy sees the destruction of the company as a direct effect of his shit luck? Not at all related to things like the continuing Depression the US has been in since 2008? Put it another way, would it be any more rational to suggest that because a meteor hit the building, killing the CEO and all the board of directors one night, that it was our boy's shit luck that caused Newton's Law of Gravitation to manifest right there?

Shakespeare's definition of narcissism: all the world's a stage, and the men and women merely extras to my starring role.

Quote:Also, one thing to say about this hypothetical boy. In his young days, high school days, playing basketball all day days, he had no trouble making friends. He knew a lot of people. As he entered his 20's, and his levels of cynicism and jadedness went up, this ability slowly dissolved.

Misdiagnosis. Is it possible people got sick and fucking tired of listening to someone dead at the heart but still walking around?

Quote:He successfully pushed everyone away from him and his contacts are limited to less than a dozen of various levels of acquaintances. His phone battery lasts for a week. He doesn't want to make motorcycle friends. He likes to be alone. His father is exactly like that.

So is it that the ability to make friends disappeared, or that he intentionally pushed them away? My answer is: neither, but narcissism requires that the story be all about you, so either excuse will do.

As for why he likes to be alone, and observing that his father is exactly like that? That's just looking for an identity, because like most of the population of the US, he was taught that external appearances matter more than internal -- his parents actually went to the lunacy of building a literal fucking brick wall rather than acknowledge that the externality, the marriage, was a myth.

Quote:Also, our boy had many plans and aspirations what to do with his life, but every single idea he had was shot down by the voices in his head, as every single idea seemed either futile, childish, lame, boring or he would feel ashamed of the idea 2 days later. Our boy wants to live under all the radars so he can't be judged, compared to, or even mentioned by anyone.

Relevant text bolded. Also very relevant:

Quote:Our boy is concerned with someone seeing him mediocre. His hair is thinning and he stresses a lot over it. Because his father is bald. He doesn't want to be like his father. Could it be that he's slowly turning into him?

Our boy is not turning into his father. That's physiologically impossible. But our boy is in search of an identity, and lacking any other, his father's one will do unless he chooses otherwise.

How does The Last Psychiatrist tell us you raise a child, make him know himself, avoid narcissism?

Quote:You surround him with mirrors. "This is what everyone else sees when you do what you do. This is who everyone thinks you are."

You cause him to be tested: this is the kind of person you are, you are good at this but not that. This other person is better than you at this, but not better than you at that. These are the limits by which you are defined. Narcissus was never allowed to meet real danger, glory, struggle, honor, success, failure; only artificial versions manipulated by his parents. He was never allowed to ask, "am I a coward? Am I a fool?" To ensure his boring longevity his parents wouldn't have wanted a definite answer in either direction.

He was allowed to live in a world of speculation, of fantasy, of "someday" and "what if". He never had to hear "too bad", "too little" and "too late."

When you want a child to become something-- you first teach him how to master his impulses, how to live with frustration. But when a temptation arose Narcissus's parents either let him have it or hid it from him so he wouldn't be tempted, so they wouldn't have to tell him no. They didn't teach him how to resist temptation, how to deal with lack. And they most certainly didn't teach him how NOT to want what he couldn't have. They didn't teach him how to want.

The result was that he stopped having desires and instead desired the feeling of desire.

How do you 'cure' narcissism?

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2009/01/c...cured.html

Quote:"But I want to change, I want to get better."

Narcissism says: I, me. Never you, them.

No one ever asks me, ever, "I think I'm a narcissist, and I'm worried I'm hurting my family." No one ever asks me, "I think I'm too controlling, I'm trying to subtly manipulate my girlfriend not to notice other people's qualities." No one ever, ever, ever asks me, "I am often consumed by irrational rage, I am unable to feel guilt, only shame, and when I am caught, found out, exposed, I try to break down those around me so they feel worse than I do, so they are too miserable to look down on me."

If that was what they asked, I would tell them them change is within grasp. But.

"So all is lost?"

Describe yourself: your traits, qualities, both good and bad.

Do not use the word "am."

Practice this.

Instead of asking, "why do I feel disconnected?" ask the reverse question: "what would I feel if I wasn't disconnected?" Be specific, say the answer out loud.


Go ahead, take some time, think about it. What does connecting feel like? I'll wait.

Let me guess: you have no idea.

All you have for an answer is images, fleeting thoughts. Nothing concrete. Some words, some phrases, bits and pieces of conversations you may have heard or that you daydreamed.

Now ask yourself, where did you get these images and phrases?

Imagine two people: real, or from TV or movies, that are in love. Pick two people whose love you'd like to emulate. Imagine them kissing, looking into each other's eyes. Imagine them making love.

You wish you had a love like that, but you don't, and every time you try, to get it, it is failure. Here's the reason: are you imaging real people, or TV characters?

"I feel like I am playing a part, that I'm in a role. It doesn't feel real."

Instead of trying to stop playing a role-- again, a move whose aim is your happiness-- try playing a different role whose aim is someone else's happiness. Why not play the part of the happy husband of three kids? Why not pretend to be devoted to your family to the exclusion of other things? Why not play the part of the man who isn't tempted to sleep with the woman at the airport bar?

"But that's dishonest, I'd be lying to myself." Your kids will not know to ask: so?

The narcissist demands absolutism in all things-- relative to himself.

Remissas, discite, vivet.
God save us from people who mean well. -storm
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2017 10:00 PM by Paracelsus.)
04-09-2017 09:54 PM
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ravsharan Offline
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RE: Could people be just destined to lose? (long boring story)
You are what you think. So try to stay in present, do efforts and remain positive.
04-11-2017 01:08 AM
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