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Dutch Election Thread
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nomadbrah Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Dutch Election Thread
PVV must be Wilders right?
03-15-2017 04:22 PM
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Guriko Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Dutch Election Thread
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03-15-2017 04:32 PM
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Irenicus Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Dutch Election Thread
(03-15-2017 04:22 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  PVV must be Wilders right?

Agree

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03-15-2017 05:38 PM
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budoslavic Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Dutch Election Thread


(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 07:17 PM by budoslavic.)
03-15-2017 07:08 PM
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HighSpeed_LowDrag Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Dutch Election Thread

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03-15-2017 07:30 PM
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nomadbrah Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Dutch Election Thread
This isn't a Trump landslide but 15% or so for a candidate who literally wants to ban Islam is massive or am I being overly optimistic?

If Wilders had been a typical Euro-right cuck (trying to fit in), then it would be nothing, but Wilders is by far the politician with the strongest views in Europe and has stated: ban headscarves, ban mosques, ban the quran, leave the EU, that's some hardcore views, ever more than many here!

15% or every 6th person you see then wants to remove kebab? That means you can go down the street in Holland and every 6 person you meet you nod and say "remove kebab". There's this Trumpian thing still going on but worse in Euro, social media is still fully dominated by those who seek to shame and get you fired and there is no Fox, remember that, only CNN/CNBC all over. And yet, soon we are so many that these people will have to look at the polls and realize THEY are the minority.
03-15-2017 07:46 PM
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NewMeta Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Dutch Election Thread
I think its optimistic because the local population are being replaced way too quickly, the left keeps importing voters and the globalist propaganda is strong enough to keep dumb upper-middle class people fooled.

If it were the case of the population remaining the same, then sure 15% is great, it will increase the next time around, but we dont have until the next time around, there is every chance that right now is the tipping point, that it can't get bigger than right now. As time goes on all the following factors are going to kill off the ring wing voter base:

-Older local generation die of old age.
-More immigration replaces local population and immigrants get voting rights, so more votes to the left.
-Muslim terrorism potentially kills off some more local population, more potential right wing voters (considering that immigrants will never vote to the right).
-Immigrant birth rate (primarily muslims) increases muslim voters as they come of age while the local birth rate remains low, no new voters to the right, plenty of new voters to the left.

I wish I could be optimistic I really do, but the numbers aren't in our favor as time goes on.
03-15-2017 08:06 PM
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nomadbrah Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Dutch Election Thread
Then it ends in war Sad
03-15-2017 08:10 PM
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budoslavic Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Dutch Election Thread
Very interesting to check out the map's election results.

(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 09:25 PM by budoslavic.)
03-15-2017 09:13 PM
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MikeMcLaren Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Dutch Election Thread
The problem with Geert Wilders' campaign is that he stayed too local. There is no irony in citizens in Europe who want to maintain their independent Democracies by leaving EU/Euro to help each other.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 10:17 PM by MikeMcLaren.)
03-15-2017 10:16 PM
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Thaitanium Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Dutch Election Thread
The problem with Wilders was that he did a really bad campaign. He basically refused to go on tv and participate in debates until the last week. There were many potential high educated people willing to vote for him (who did so in earlier elections) but they got turned off by his constant refusal to really go for it. I suspect he might even be happy just to be the biggest opposition party and being able to scream from the chamber and side for the next years.

Another big issue was the Erdogan/Turkey thing of the last few weeks. It wouldn't suprise me if this was some sort of manufactured outrage issue. Because the Dutch did this sort of tough thing versus the Turks, it made Rutte look like a strong leader. That took the wind out of the sails of Wilders. Rutte actually said in the only 1on1 debate between them that he acts while Wilders only twitters.

At least the good thing is that overall, the left has lost. The biggest leftist party in the history of Holland is the PVDA, they went to 9/10 seats, which is a historic defeat, and the biggest in our history. Bad thing is that GL (Groenlinks, treehuggers) got much bigger (about 3 times as big) as before. And they are a bunch of idiots, while their leader is compared to Trudeau because he looks and talks like him. I think the next government will be a center right government, probably VVD, CDA, D66 and a 4th or perhaps even a 5th party. Which at least is better then a center left or left government.

The main thing I find annoying is that DENK got 3 seats. This is a party with Turkish/Dutch people, got kicked out by the PVDA (the left party) a while back and now got 2/3 seats. That basically means that about 600.000 people voting for them have more loyalty and feels for Turkey and Erdogan then to Holland. Annoying people with double passports. Should all be kicked out.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 11:09 PM by Thaitanium.)
03-15-2017 11:09 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Dutch Election Thread
The outcome of power is less important than the recognition that the EU superstate project and the diversity mantra are withering on the vine.

This movement will grow exponentially now that Geert and his people have thrown off the stigma of being fringe-dwellers.
03-15-2017 11:10 PM
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Thaitanium Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Dutch Election Thread
(03-15-2017 11:10 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  The outcome of power is less important than the recognition that the EU superstate project and the diversity mantra are withering on the vine.

This movement will grow exponentially now that Geert and his people have thrown off the stigma of being fringe-dwellers.

While I agree with your first sentence, I'm not so sure about your second. The PVV has already existed since 2006, when they first took part in the elections.They are not considered fringe-dwellers. What I find annoying is that Wilders had a very very poor campaign this time around. This would have been the moment to get much bigger then they are now. I seriously doubt he has a lot more growing potential.

On the other hand, tensions are rising back home, so who knows what will happen. Fact is that the VVD has taking over a number of points of the PVV on immigration. We will see how things go.

The main thing to take away though is that the results clearly show Holland is moving to the right. The left has never been so small. Take the PVDA, that one has been the biggest left wing party in Holland for decades. They went from 38 (and being in government) to 9 seats. The biggest loss in history. They used to supply prime ministers, but are now the 7th (!) party in Holland. Groenlinks has risen from 4 to 14, which is a big win, but the SP (socialist/commies) is still on 15.

This means the left parties combined are smaller then ever before in Dutch history. So Holland will be more focused on the right. That is a win I guess.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 11:42 PM by Thaitanium.)
03-15-2017 11:32 PM
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Sherman Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Dutch Election Thread
I lived in the Netherlands for several years, and to be honest I don't think they have as big a Muslim problem as France. I lived several blocks from a Mosque and nobody ever bothered me. The Muslims all spoke Dutch and acted similar to other Dutch. When I lived there, I just wasn't aware of the issue.

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03-15-2017 11:43 PM
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Thaitanium Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Dutch Election Thread
(03-15-2017 11:43 PM)Sherman Wrote:  I lived in the Netherlands for several years, and to be honest I don't think they have as big a Muslim problem as France. I lived several blocks from a Mosque and nobody ever bothered me. The Muslims all spoke Dutch and acted similar to other Dutch. When I lived there, I just wasn't aware of the issue.

You are right, France has a way bigger problem.

The issues in Holland are in the big cities. A big problem is that countries like Turkey and Morocco are allowed to have dual passports, and with that Turkish/Dutch situation last week in Rotterdam, you see they feel more like Turks then Dutch. While at the same time they would never go back to Turkey, because life is much better in Holland.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 11:52 PM by Thaitanium.)
03-15-2017 11:49 PM
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Post: #41
RE: Dutch Election Thread
One word: CUCKED

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03-16-2017 01:41 AM
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stugatz Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Dutch Election Thread
What's the opposite of pyrrhic victory? As in, when our team loses, but loses in a way that will likely end up being beneficial? (Googled the hell out of it and got nothing decent.)

That's what just happened, it seems. I'm disappointed, but I'll take it, as Wilders (as mentioned above) ran a bad campaign, and Le Pen seems to be running a great one - so let's keep our fingers crossed and vive la France.



03-16-2017 01:44 AM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Dutch Election Thread
I personally don't think the Netherlands is likely to become conservative anytime soon because it's a very urban and highly educated (brainwashed) population.

Bigger countries like the USA with large rural populations cannot be easily controlled. But in a place like the Netherlands where most of the people live in 3 cities, you're always going to see the urban liberal type.

Oh well,

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03-16-2017 02:10 AM
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Transsimian Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Dutch Election Thread
What stings the most, is, even with all the Turkish shenanigans, PVV still did badly.

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03-16-2017 02:30 AM
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lightning_jack Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Dutch Election Thread
Nobody was willing to form a coalition with PVV.

So even if they won 30+ seats they'd still most likely be relegated to opposition, or there'd be political chaos.

Maybe people just weren't motivated to vote for that outcome.
03-16-2017 04:51 AM
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Lime Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Dutch Election Thread
I can see why people here think the outcome is bad with a slightly smaller PVV than expected and 'globalist parties' winning big.

Truth is, VVD is seen in the Netherlands as 'antisocial capitalists' by the left and CDA follows their 'centre right' economic policy. VVD and CDA could only get this big because they had to take a firmer stance against islam and VVD won arguably some seats with the Turkish issue last weekend.

While VVD might be 'globalist', they are pro-business and for me that is good.

The real win here is that the left got hammered. PVV thinking got incorporated in VVD/CDA and are becoming more mainstream. This is part of the heritage of Pim Fortuyn.

Let's honor Pim Fortuyn, the intellectual anti-globalist sociologist, who would get a lot of love from RVF if he wasn't assassinated in May 2002.

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He was too intellectual for the establishment, Geert Wilders is allowed to be because he isn't as broadly appealing as Pim Fortuyn was.

Mind you, it is partly because of Pim Fortuyn that the Netherlands isn't like Germany of Sweden now.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2017 05:45 AM by Lime.)
03-16-2017 05:38 AM
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lightning_jack Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Dutch Election Thread
Wilders has full time body guards - for life.

Doesn't quite sound like 'allowed to be' to me.

And if supposed conspirators were so powerful why would they allow any opposition at all.
03-16-2017 05:55 AM
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Lime Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Dutch Election Thread
(03-16-2017 05:55 AM)lightning_jack Wrote:  Wilders has full time body guards - for life.

Doesn't quite sound like 'allowed to be' to me.

And if supposed conspirators were so powerful why would they allow any opposition at all.

He would be not 'allowed to be' without his bodyguards (state protection).

And of course the results could have been better but they also could have been much worse. D66 and GL are very europhile, though, and that isn't good.

Wilders isn't as polished/sophisticated as Trump and much more one-issue. So I never expected the PVV to gain much more than this. You can't realistically expect 35 seats for the PVV. It is realistic to expect a centre-right, yes maybe globalist but definitely not leftist government. And for me that's a win. Left has never been smaller I guess. Why complain so much than (not necessarily you but in general)?
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2017 06:09 AM by Lime.)
03-16-2017 06:01 AM
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Belgrano Offline
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RE: Dutch Election Thread
(03-16-2017 05:55 AM)lightning_jack Wrote:  And if supposed conspirators were so powerful why would they allow any opposition at all.

Sun Tzu:

When you surround an army, leave an outlet free.

This does not mean that the enemy is to be allowed to escape. The object, as Tu Mu puts it, is "to make him believe that there is a road to safety, and thus prevent his fighting with the courage of despair." Tu Mu adds pleasantly: "After that, you may crush him."
03-16-2017 06:20 AM
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lightning_jack Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Dutch Election Thread
Never lived in NL I'm just interested.

I think the disappointment is because RVF'ers want the Trump train to keep rolling.

Outcome was to be expected but psychologically probably a blow to the likes of Le Pen.
03-16-2017 06:23 AM
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