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The Jordan Peterson thread
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Trumpian Offline
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Post: #2826
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-15-2019 12:45 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  These days I just feel sorry for Peterson. What DbG says is true. It's impossible to compete with the internet. Take any of us here on the forum, dox us, and our entire posting history would be torn to shreds in five minutes flat. In a digital medium nobody is allowed to learn or grow. Even in the short time I've been here on the forum my outlook on all sorts of issues has changed dramatically, but on the internet that just means you're a hypocrite.

I still say that everything JbP preaches is a bandaid for the gaping wound where tribal identity ought to exist, but I sympathize with him immensely. Tribalism is hard when you're even one scant deviation in IQ above the beer swilling masses. There's no loneliness quite like a response of two likes for your deepest insight when the frog meme you posted yesterday brought you accolades.

I've defended JP here before, but I think you're letting him off the hook too easily on this point.

His IQ worship is just side-stepping because he doesn't acknowledge the well-documented average differences amongst races. Intellectual cowardice basically..

Also the classical liberalism that he cherishes so much is uniquely Western, uniquely White. Nothing even resembling it developed in other high IQ societies like Japan.

So IQ isn't the pancacea he makes it about to be. And while he gloats about his intellect, the culture & ideology he clings too is being swept away by a tidal wave of immigration that he doesn't have the balls to speak against because his Patreon account might get shut down.

He's a greedy fool, and arguably more dangerous than the far left. Most people find SJWs revolting. JP is slick, and his revamped libertarian shtick has a lot of surface appeal. But the net result is it keeps young Americans clinging to hardcore individualism whilst "low-IQ" immigrants collectivize and gain numerical superiority. We're probably 50 years from a South Africa situation playing out in the U.S, even though I think things would combust well before it got to that point. One can hope anyways.
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 01:47 AM by Trumpian.)
01-18-2019 01:15 AM
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Post: #2827
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 01:15 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  I've defended JP here before, but I think you're letting him off the hook too easily here.

His IQ worship is just side-stepping because he doesn't acknowledge the well-documented average differences amongst races. Intellectual cowardice basically..

...

He's a greedy fool, and I don't sympathize with him at all.

I've made this point before but I think it bears repeating: if JP went full redpill on the topic of race and IQ, what do you think the response would be? He's already called a Nazi for his relatively benign, not at all controversial views.

He might be doing as much to this end as he can. I imagine most of his audience are able to connect the dots between IQ, income, criminality and so on. Patterns emerge. He doesn't need to spell it out. Sure I'd like him to, but does protecting his brand and his platform (which means he's still able to reach millions) really mean he has no intellectual integrity?

Unless he wants to spend all of his time and energy fighting his enemies, which I'm sure he doesn't, then there are things he can't say out loud. But that doesn't mean he won't get his point across. Same goes for his constant talk about Marxism, postmodernism and Solzenheitsen. Enough people will connect the dots.

As far as greed goes, maybe he plans to make even more money from his Patreon competitor than the 80K/mo he was making at Patreon. But this is a huge risk in the name of free speech and I commend him for that. Could be another small victory for us.

(01-18-2019 12:59 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  So it's still reasonable to say "hey, Mr Peterson, your 12 rules are not going to stop me being tossed in jail for refusing to address xir as xir demands, what advice do you have for me to deal with the issues you actually built your fame and your brand on?"

This is the most reasonable criticism of JP, I think. I imagine he wouldn't have a direct answer for you. Probably something along the lines of, "Well let's hope we can make enough people aware of these issues, eh, then we can prevent such things from happening." Which would be kinda bullshit.

Len is right, time is running out for the west, and JP's words won't be enough to save us. Is JP doing everything he can? Probably not. Is he doing everything anyone can reasonably expect him to? Maybe.

If he decided to go full redpill cannon he'd be shut down and laughed out of every public discussion. As it stands he is still able to do a lot of good. I've no idea what his true intentions are. But if his decisions lead to him being able to do more good than not, I don't see how he can be called a fraud, etc.
01-18-2019 01:49 AM
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Post: #2828
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
If JP stayed in his lane talking about trannies, free speech and keeping one's room tidy, I wouldn't have an issue with him.

But he's repeatedly punched right, saying people with my views are right wing SJWs. Not that I give a fuck honestly. If he wants to be a cuck so he doesn't get deplatformed, that's fine. However he shouldn't be coming after the people with the courage to fill in the gaps on what he saying. That triggers my fake opposition alarm system.
01-18-2019 01:55 AM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 01:15 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  
(01-15-2019 12:45 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  These days I just feel sorry for Peterson. What DbG says is true. It's impossible to compete with the internet. Take any of us here on the forum, dox us, and our entire posting history would be torn to shreds in five minutes flat. In a digital medium nobody is allowed to learn or grow. Even in the short time I've been here on the forum my outlook on all sorts of issues has changed dramatically, but on the internet that just means you're a hypocrite.

I still say that everything JbP preaches is a bandaid for the gaping wound where tribal identity ought to exist, but I sympathize with him immensely. Tribalism is hard when you're even one scant deviation in IQ above the beer swilling masses. There's no loneliness quite like a response of two likes for your deepest insight when the frog meme you posted yesterday brought you accolades.

I've defended JP here before, but I think you're letting him off the hook too easily on this point.

His IQ worship is just side-stepping because he doesn't acknowledge the well-documented average differences amongst races. Intellectual cowardice basically..

Also the classical liberalism that he cherishes so much is uniquely Western, uniquely White. Nothing even resembling it developed in other high IQ societies like Japan.

So IQ isn't the pancacea he makes it about to be. And while he gloats about his intellect, the culture & ideology he clings too is being swept away by a tidal wave of immigration that he doesn't have the balls to speak against because his Patreon account might get shut down.

He's a greedy fool, and arguably more dangerous than the far left. Most people find SJWs revolting. JP is slick, and his revamped libertarian shtick has a lot of surface appeal. But the net result is it keeps young Americans clinging to hardcore individualism whilst "low-IQ" immigrants collectivize and gain numerical superiority. We're probably 50 years from a South Africa situation playing out in the U.S, even though I think things would combust well before it got to that point. One can hope anyways.

(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 02:10 AM by BetaNoMore.)
01-18-2019 02:07 AM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
I heard him talk about Hitler exterminating the Jews and that just turned me off. He is just another puppet and pseudo intellectual.

Don't debate me.
01-18-2019 02:57 AM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Who am I to give advice on building a viable brand while maintaining honesty, but if I could it would be this. There's no rule that says you can't sidestep 90% of the drama JBP finds himself embroiled in simply by saying either:

1) That's outside of my field of expertise and I think people should examine that issue for themselves with an open mind.

2) That's outside of the field of allowable discourse in our society right now and I think people should examine that issue for themselves with an open mind.

People might call you a pussy but they can't call you disingenuous, and it would force his supporters to look into the issues for themselves rather than simply turn up their nose and chant "Papa Peterson says..."

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
01-18-2019 03:12 AM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 02:07 AM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 01:15 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  
(01-15-2019 12:45 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  These days I just feel sorry for Peterson. What DbG says is true. It's impossible to compete with the internet. Take any of us here on the forum, dox us, and our entire posting history would be torn to shreds in five minutes flat. In a digital medium nobody is allowed to learn or grow. Even in the short time I've been here on the forum my outlook on all sorts of issues has changed dramatically, but on the internet that just means you're a hypocrite.

I still say that everything JbP preaches is a bandaid for the gaping wound where tribal identity ought to exist, but I sympathize with him immensely. Tribalism is hard when you're even one scant deviation in IQ above the beer swilling masses. There's no loneliness quite like a response of two likes for your deepest insight when the frog meme you posted yesterday brought you accolades.

I've defended JP here before, but I think you're letting him off the hook too easily on this point.

His IQ worship is just side-stepping because he doesn't acknowledge the well-documented average differences amongst races. Intellectual cowardice basically..

Also the classical liberalism that he cherishes so much is uniquely Western, uniquely White. Nothing even resembling it developed in other high IQ societies like Japan.

So IQ isn't the pancacea he makes it about to be. And while he gloats about his intellect, the culture & ideology he clings too is being swept away by a tidal wave of immigration that he doesn't have the balls to speak against because his Patreon account might get shut down.

He's a greedy fool, and arguably more dangerous than the far left. Most people find SJWs revolting. JP is slick, and his revamped libertarian shtick has a lot of surface appeal. But the net result is it keeps young Americans clinging to hardcore individualism whilst "low-IQ" immigrants collectivize and gain numerical superiority. We're probably 50 years from a South Africa situation playing out in the U.S, even though I think things would combust well before it got to that point. One can hope anyways.


He seriously thinks they care about his $30k/month? Patreon is awash in fees earned from $150/k month thots and thirsty beta orbiters, they won't even blink at this.

Quote:Well, I Guess I'll Just Take My Business To Another Soulless Multinational Corporation

The nerve of you people. Treating a longtime patron with so little respect, like I'm just another walking dollar sign. If that's what passes for customer service around here, you sadly leave me with no choice but to have the exact same experience at another giant soulless multinational corporation somewhere else.

Maybe one that knows how to rob its customers of a fraction less dignity.

Every single time I'm in here—without fail—it's been the same god-awful experience. But this! This is a new low for you guys. I don't even know why I still bother coming here when I could happily take my business to one of the faceless global entities around the corner and be equally insulted and dehumanized there. My insignificant contribution to the bottom line could easily be theirs for the taking!

What do you think about that, you crooks? I don't have to bend over and take this from you. I can bend over and take this from one of your sprawling, heavily franchised rivals.

Do you think you're my only source for generic, mass-produced merchandise? You're not the only vertically integrated international conglomerate with retail locations on five continents in this town, you know. Maybe you weren't aware, but there are three or four morally bereft megacorporations hawking the same stuff within 10 minutes' drive, and quite frankly, I'd be glad to engage in an emotionless transaction with any of them.

Okay, sure, I'll concede that it was your competitive, high-volume discounts that got me in here in the first place. But that's not the point. The point is that I'm an individual— an individual who has free will in choosing which uncaring global monolith to spend her money at.

Face it, you're a disgrace, and I'm going to tell everyone I know not to shop here and these actions will affect your multibillion dollar company in no way whatsoever.

So there!

And you know what? Have it your way. Don't bring out your supervisor. I'd much rather stand in line at some other big-box store, ask the same question, and eventually be told to just call the company's 1-800 number. There are plenty of other chains I can go to that are probably owned by the same parent company as you are and would no doubt be thrilled to abuse my loyalty at the drop of a hat, leaving me in the very same predicament I'm in now.

https://www.theonion.com/well-i-guess-il...1819584750

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01-18-2019 03:19 AM
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Post: #2833
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 02:07 AM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 01:15 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  
(01-15-2019 12:45 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  These days I just feel sorry for Peterson. What DbG says is true. It's impossible to compete with the internet. Take any of us here on the forum, dox us, and our entire posting history would be torn to shreds in five minutes flat. In a digital medium nobody is allowed to learn or grow. Even in the short time I've been here on the forum my outlook on all sorts of issues has changed dramatically, but on the internet that just means you're a hypocrite.

I still say that everything JbP preaches is a bandaid for the gaping wound where tribal identity ought to exist, but I sympathize with him immensely. Tribalism is hard when you're even one scant deviation in IQ above the beer swilling masses. There's no loneliness quite like a response of two likes for your deepest insight when the frog meme you posted yesterday brought you accolades.

I've defended JP here before, but I think you're letting him off the hook too easily on this point.

His IQ worship is just side-stepping because he doesn't acknowledge the well-documented average differences amongst races. Intellectual cowardice basically..

Also the classical liberalism that he cherishes so much is uniquely Western, uniquely White. Nothing even resembling it developed in other high IQ societies like Japan.

So IQ isn't the pancacea he makes it about to be. And while he gloats about his intellect, the culture & ideology he clings too is being swept away by a tidal wave of immigration that he doesn't have the balls to speak against because his Patreon account might get shut down.

He's a greedy fool, and arguably more dangerous than the far left. Most people find SJWs revolting. JP is slick, and his revamped libertarian shtick has a lot of surface appeal. But the net result is it keeps young Americans clinging to hardcore individualism whilst "low-IQ" immigrants collectivize and gain numerical superiority. We're probably 50 years from a South Africa situation playing out in the U.S, even though I think things would combust well before it got to that point. One can hope anyways.


Meh probably just wasn't happy about the Patreon fees.

This link's still still working fine.

https://jordanbpeterson.com/donate/

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01-18-2019 04:34 AM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 02:57 AM)Pride male Wrote:  I heard him talk about Hitler exterminating the Jews and that just turned me off. He is just another puppet and pseudo intellectual.

He studied both the Nazis and the Communists. He has openly stated it was an obsession earlier in his career and he read many books on the subject. He's famous for recommending people read Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago. He's also recommended The Rape of Nanking, about Japanese atrocities perpetrated against the Chinese during World War 2.

Say whatever you want about the modern Jewish victim narrative, it's historical fact that Hitler targeted the Jews for extermination and killed millions of them. It's an undeniably a relevant topic for a researcher of human psychology. This is especially true if you consider that the tactics the Nazis used against the Jews could be used against you, too, so it's worthwhile to understand them.
01-18-2019 11:21 AM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 04:34 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  Meh probably just wasn't happy about the Patreon fees.

This link's still still working fine.

https://jordanbpeterson.com/donate/

Seems far more likely that it was a principled decision to take his business away from Patreon after they banned Sargon for saying nigger in an interview on a different youtube channel. The point isn't to stop taking donations altogether and be foolishly austere just to prove a trite point to haters who accuse him of being in it for the money.
01-18-2019 11:28 AM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
I see Vox Day is hammering on JP over the latter's rejection of group identity.

I get where Vox and other alt-right guys are getting at on this.

But the group identity thing has never worked for me. I've always had the H.L. Mencken problem with the group identity thing. The groups I wanted to join wanted nothing to do with me and I wanted nothing to do with the groups that were willing to admit me. I've never been able to resolve this quandary.
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 11:55 AM by Abelard Lindsey.)
01-18-2019 11:54 AM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Mom wants some of the online action that daughter is getting:

   

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01-18-2019 12:18 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Mommy has nice thigh gap but ugly face, WB with paper bag.

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01-18-2019 12:27 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 11:54 AM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  I see Vox Day is hammering on JP over the latter's rejection of group identity.

I get where Vox and other alt-right guys are getting at on this.

But the group identity thing has never worked for me. I've always had the H.L. Mencken problem with the group identity thing. The groups I wanted to join wanted nothing to do with me and I wanted nothing to do with the groups that were willing to admit me. I've never been able to resolve this quandary.

The group identity is endemic and chooses you. Otherwise as a Euro-desended European try to live in Poland vs Japan, marry a local woman and then find out where you feel more at home and more integrated.

It is what it is - Earth is defined by tribes and then in the bigger picture races. Rejecting this reality of human society creation is typical cultural marxist propaganda. And this multicultural propaganda will be found to fail when the West collapses. The future high civilizations superpowers of China and later India won't repeat that error.

Even if you are a loner, you exist in a larger group consciousness.
01-18-2019 12:46 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 12:46 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 11:54 AM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  I see Vox Day is hammering on JP over the latter's rejection of group identity.

I get where Vox and other alt-right guys are getting at on this.

But the group identity thing has never worked for me. I've always had the H.L. Mencken problem with the group identity thing. The groups I wanted to join wanted nothing to do with me and I wanted nothing to do with the groups that were willing to admit me. I've never been able to resolve this quandary.

The group identity is endemic and chooses you. Otherwise as a Euro-desended European try to live in Poland vs Japan, marry a local woman and then find out where you feel more at home and more integrated.

It is what it is - Earth is defined by tribes and then in the bigger picture races. Rejecting this reality of human society creation is typical cultural marxist propaganda. And this multicultural propaganda will be found to fail when the West collapses. The future high civilizations superpowers of China and later India won't repeat that error.

Even if you are a loner, you exist in a larger group consciousness.

Like I said before, I didn't reject it. It rejected me. That's why I'm out on my own (and probably the better for it).
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 01:02 PM by Abelard Lindsey.)
01-18-2019 01:01 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 01:01 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  Like I said before, I didn't reject it. It rejected me. That's why I'm out on my own (and probably the better for it).

Individualism only exists within the context of Western society and the ideals that it has created. That's the point.
01-18-2019 01:19 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 01:19 PM)demolition Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 01:01 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  Like I said before, I didn't reject it. It rejected me. That's why I'm out on my own (and probably the better for it).

Individualism only exists within the context of Western society and the ideals that it has created. That's the point.

Look, I'm just telling you my personal experiences. I'm sure your guy's experiences are different from mine.

I didn't reject the groups (of my youth). They rejected me. WTF was I supposed to do? I do what I can.

Your mileage may vary.
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 01:41 PM by Abelard Lindsey.)
01-18-2019 01:38 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Most of the recent posts belong in the JP Political thread.

But they always end up here.

Anyone thinks that means anything?

(01-18-2019 12:18 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Mom wants some of the online action that daughter is getting:



[Image: HUDkwTR.gif]

This is interesting. I don't think Peterson or his wife spent much time on the internet before public awareness blew up about him.

They are surprisingly naive about some of the things they share.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

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(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019 02:07 PM by debeguiled.)
01-18-2019 01:58 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Sure she isn't pretty, but considering what middle-aged women typically look like she's doing pretty well just not being shaped like a potato.
01-18-2019 05:22 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 11:21 AM)Blaster Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 02:57 AM)Pride male Wrote:  I heard him talk about Hitler exterminating the Jews and that just turned me off. He is just another puppet and pseudo intellectual.

He studied both the Nazis and the Communists. He has openly stated it was an obsession earlier in his career and he read many books on the subject. He's famous for recommending people read Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago. He's also recommended The Rape of Nanking, about Japanese atrocities perpetrated against the Chinese during World War 2.

Say whatever you want about the modern Jewish victim narrative, it's historical fact that Hitler targeted the Jews for extermination and killed millions of them. It's an undeniably a relevant topic for a researcher of human psychology. This is especially true if you consider that the tactics the Nazis used against the Jews could be used against you, too, so it's worthwhile to understand them.

No. The Allies probably exterminated more German civilians in the mid/late 40s than Hitler killed Jews in 1939-45.

You've probably never heard of the Morgenthau Plan.

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01-18-2019 07:06 PM
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RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 07:06 PM)911 Wrote:  No. The Allies probably exterminated more German civilians in the mid/late 40s than Hitler killed Jews in 1939-45.

You've probably never heard of the Morgenthau Plan.

The Morgenthau Plan was never enacted and at best had a temporary influence on allied post-war handling of Germany. And Germany, in case you forgot, started a war of conquest that they lost. Historically speaking they're lucky to have avoided genocide and enslavement. Quibble over the numbers all you want. Cry about the Dresden firebombing or the Japanese internment camps in the US. German Death camps existed. Civilians from Germany and other occupied territories were sent to these death camps for mass execution. The Allies never did that.

Peterson's interest in that subject is the psychology. He brings up details of how the guards in the camps behaved, and discusses Hitler's decision to ramp up the executions later in the war rather than trying to make more efficient use of slave labor. He speculates about Hitler's psychology in the context of Haidt's moral foundations theory, and how Hitler's language is full of sanctity/purity/disgust related terms.

I'm not familiar with his opinions on post-war western Europe as he's spent far more time talking about post-war Russia. But if you actually listened to him beyond the point of a kneejerk reaction to a mention of the Holocaust, then you might be inspired to come up with interesting questions and counter arguments to points he actually made, rather than merely engaging in edgy contrarianism.
01-19-2019 10:59 AM
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Oberrheiner Offline
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Post: #2847
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-19-2019 10:59 AM)Blaster Wrote:  German Death camps existed. Civilians from Germany and other occupied territories were sent to these death camps for mass execution.

I suppose you are aware that many people do not believe this.
Whether that makes sense or not is another topic of course.

However many historians presented evidence that this part of official history seems to have been at least quite a bit exaggerated, and at worst completely fabricated.
The only official reaction they received took the form of legal threats first and actions second, which did make the whole thing even more suspicious for some.

Please note that I am saying this in a neutral way because I don't have a personal opinion on the subject, for several reasons.
Oh and by the way having one would imply severe legal repercussions in my country of residence.
01-19-2019 11:48 AM
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Post: #2848
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-18-2019 11:21 AM)Blaster Wrote:  ...It's an undeniably a relevant topic for a researcher of human psychology. This is especially true if you consider that the tactics the Nazis used against the Jews could be used against you, too, so it's worthwhile to understand them.

Yeah.

They are.

By the people Peterson protects with his lies about "success due to IQ variation" when such explanations are convenient to cover for those people and never any time else.

Your boy might give some good life advice for some people but don't go in to bat for his credibility on the broader issues. It doesn't exist.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
01-19-2019 12:07 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #2849
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(01-19-2019 12:07 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 11:21 AM)Blaster Wrote:  ...It's an undeniably a relevant topic for a researcher of human psychology. This is especially true if you consider that the tactics the Nazis used against the Jews could be used against you, too, so it's worthwhile to understand them.

Yeah.

They are.

By the people Peterson protects with his lies about "success due to IQ variation" when such explanations are convenient to cover for those people and never any time else.

Your boy might give some good life advice for some people but don't go in to bat for his credibility on the broader issues. It doesn't exist.

Actually agree with this. He should stick to being a psychologist.

“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”

Carl Jung
01-19-2019 12:20 PM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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Post: #2850
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
I also don't get the crying over German civilian deaths and the bombing of Dresden etc. It's pretty simple: they voted in and overwhelmingly supported a genocidal dictator with imperial ambitions. Then launched an all-out assault against the "unpeople" of Europe. A move that had the support of the vast majority of Germans.

The fuckers had it coming, plain and simple. They're lucky they're still a country after the stunts they pulled in the 20th century.
01-19-2019 01:25 PM
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